Do spirits have bodies?

[shimmer]

Quote (david @ Dec. 23 2010,17:53)

So in answer to your question shimmer: Quote So, David, think about the other thing I said, on the other thread, finding a better church. Whereas you said you don't have the answers, and these things remain puzzling to many, I do not find them puzzling.  We really should get into all those scriptures about Jesus' resurrection.  There many be reasons for not wanting to be a JW, but this belief is not it. david.

David, sorry, i'm not interested in your religion or what they teach. (And I hope you will come out of it and join a spirit filled church somewhere).

I knew a few JWs and studied with them. Nice people I will admit. Been through two or more books…studied their magazines… been to their meetings. I would say we studied (talked) 3 hours a week for 3 years or more……..so I do know. Looking back I think I needed to talk about God, and they happened to be there. They made good friends too.

But I stopped studying for about two years for some reason.

We moved town… and before the JWs had a chance to knock on my door…God became my teacher… not magazines.

I tried again to study with them, but God closed my mind to them. Everything on the page's of their books went… a bit like everything on the pages of heaven net goes….jumbled and confusing… haha.

I told them, the JWs,  how God healed me and other people,  and they said God doesnt do that today…Satan does it ……?  THATS when I decided there would be no more study with them.

They believe Jesus to be risen in the spirit from the dead and not the flesh. They don't believe what Jesus said, and there's a reason for that. False prophets do that. I'm sure Ronald Weinland has already said that to his followers too. (If you know who he is).

The 'puzzle' that you present here… Islamist's use it too, to say he was never crucified.

Jesus said clearly… a spirit doesn't have flesh and bone like he has. (I can't see what people don't get about that ?)

And Jesus said to “Tear down this temple and in three days I will raise it up”. His body was the temple. And that temple –  his body – was risen up.

So, following man or following God ? You are following man. I follow man sometimes…  but it has to be shown to me first…  by God… that it's ok…  And God shows me.

OK so back to the discussion and the post you made before this… there is no 'mystery' or 'puzzle' to me either.

As I said to Terrarica after reading the scripture,

Quote

Jesus appeared to the Disciples in the risen flesh and bone body. He was RAISED FROM THE DEAD. He wasnt 'just a spirit or a ghost'. When he showed his hands and feet he said… “Spirit's don't have hands and feet as you see I have”. “He said to Thomas, “Reach here your finger, and see my hands. Reach here your hand, and put it into my side. Don't be unbelieving, but believing.”  Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”  Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed.” Mary… It's only when Jesus said Mary's name that she looked up and knew who he was. She wasn't expecting him to be walking around alive so she assumed the figure talking to her was the gardener. It was early morning so probably still quite dark. When she spoke to him her head would have been down and she was weeping and grieving. He said to her “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?” And when he said her name She turned toward him and cried out “Rabboni!”. On the boat once again it was early morning and probably still quite dark and they were 100 yards from shore. They recognised him soon enough though.   The two men walking had their eyes deliberatly 'closed' untill after when they had their 'eyes opened'.  God can do anything. So there's no big mystery why they didn't recognise him.

Plus his body would have been different I'm sure..We don't know how he looked when he was raised because it doesnt say.

[terraricca]

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 24 2010,01:39)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 23 2010,13:23) shimmer your info came from Mark;The most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20. so were are your scriptures ,??to justify your NO. No Terrarica, not Mark but John. John 20:11-29 (ESV) Jesus Appears to Mary Magdalene But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb, and as she wept she stooped to look into the tomb. And she saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and one at the feet. They said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping?” She said to them, “They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him.” Having said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing, but she did not know that it was Jesus. Jesus said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?” Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.” Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Aramaic,”Rabboni!” (which means Teacher). Jesus Appears to the Disciples On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” Jesus and Thomas Now Thomas, one of the Twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.” Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”  Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”  Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

shimmer

David give a good description already and i stand behind of it could so respond to his scriptures ,other wise i will quote them for you .it is all explain, then you can answered them

or can you

Pierre

[JustAskin]

Ah Mikeboll has been afflicted just as God said they who make false statements against his word would be.

Mike, you can be forgiven… Just don't make your next debate something against the Holy Spirit!

T8 was right to warn me … I was being too aggressive with the truth.

It is not my place to foreshadow God. He will reveal, he will open eyes, he will give revelation in his own time.

I pray for my own forgiveness.

Mike, what you are doing….is exactly what you are rightly accusing Gene of doing.

Two peas in a pod
Both arguing counter about God
One argues with words, the other with pictures,
But neither of them potraying true Scriptures.

One picks a verse, then random another
Place them together, why do they bother
Their contexts are different, their links misconstrued.
There's only one outcome, both peas confused.

What they both see is tnrough fleshly eyes
Speak to them of Spiritual, they both despise.
It's clear as a bell
They know of hell
But of Spiritual, the meaning.
There's none, no, no gleaning.

Read Ephesian in tote
More the part that i quote
It shows how to be a 'new man'
How even in the flesh we can
Put off sin and corruption and put on the Spiritual
And continue to live like Jesus, in perpetual.

And this is how they both are struggling
Mishmash of thoughts always muggle muggle muggling.

You two, get out of the flesh and into the Spirit
Rise up above the earth – then you will see it.

On pea is a halfway house, always been.
The other swaggers around, same place never seen.
Gene speaks counter to himself confused,
Mike argues thither, allcomers refused.
An old Thomas he is, can never believe,
Mike, that leads to delusion and the desire to deceive.
Cos when you swagger about in that way
You draw others to you…there's a price to pay.

So review your thoughts, leave pride at home
Seek the wonders of the spiritual honeycomb.
Oh, did i say 'Spiritual'? Must have lost my sight,
Or…maybe, maybe, yes, the word was right…

Mike….what is 'Spiritual Honeycomb'?

Do Spirits eat Honeycomb…
Or maybe there is Honeycomb in Heaven…therefore there are Spiritual bees, in Heaven, Spirit Bees.
And, and, Spiritual thought….There are thoughts in Heaven as Spirits…

And, Spiritual eyes, can you see with 'Spiritual eyes'….no, because they are 'Spirit eyes'…there are 'eyes' in Heaven (with or without bodies, in or outside of a body?)

Oh, what about 'Spiritual flesh'? 'Spiritual Meat'??

Mike, are you getting it yet?
Spiritual, does not mean 'a Spirit'.

A 'Spiritual body' means a body (A person), like, a 'Spiritual Man', (Not an Angel), who is 'pure in thought, does not sin, is incorruptible in thought and deed (indeed deed comes from pre-thought).

The Apostles were to become, indeed, like the Spiritual Man, Jesus…their thoughts purified bythe Holy Spirit to enable them to perform the tasks and commission given to them in God's name….but Mike, they were still flesh and blood and bone 'Man', not Spirits.

You take a verse saying Jesus is Spirit.
Align it with a verse saying Jesus is Man.
Take another saying they will be like Jesus, man will be like Jesus…then conclude this that 'Man = Spirit'.

Wow. Mike, for you to do this….you really are desparate…

Have you heard of the comic book character, 'Desparate Dan'?
Well, you earned a new name today:
…… 'Manic Mike'.

[terraricca]

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 24 2010,01:39)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 23 2010,13:23) shimmer your info came from Mark;The most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20. so were are your scriptures ,??to justify your NO. No Terrarica, not Mark but John. John 20:11-29 (ESV) Jesus Appears to Mary Magdalene But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb, and as she wept she stooped to look into the tomb. And she saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and one at the feet. They said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping?” She said to them, “They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him.” Having said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing, but she did not know that it was Jesus. Jesus said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?” Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.” Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Aramaic,”Rabboni!” (which means Teacher). Jesus Appears to the Disciples On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” Jesus and Thomas Now Thomas, one of the Twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.” Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”  Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”  Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

shimmer

did you see the answer David gived to you ??

about this subject

[terraricca]

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 24 2010,02:24)

Quote (david @ Dec. 23 2010,17:53) So in answer to your question shimmer: Quote So, David, think about the other thing I said, on the other thread, finding a better church. Whereas you said you don't have the answers, and these things remain puzzling to many, I do not find them puzzling.  We really should get into all those scriptures about Jesus' resurrection.  There many be reasons for not wanting to be a JW, but this belief is not it. david. David, sorry, i'm not interested in your religion or what they teach. (And I hope you will come out of it and join a spirit filled church somewhere). I knew a few JWs and studied with them. Nice people I will admit. Been through two or more books…studied their magazines… been to their meetings. I would say we studied (talked) 3 hours a week for 3 years or more……..so I do know. Looking back I think I needed to talk about God, and they happened to be there. They made good friends too. But I stopped studying for about two years for some reason. We moved town… and before the JWs had a chance to knock on my door…God became my teacher… not magazines. I tried again to study with them, but God closed my mind to them. Everything on the page's of their books went… a bit like everything on the pages of heaven net goes….jumbled and confusing… haha. I told them, the JWs,  how God healed me and other people,  and they said God doesnt do that today…Satan does it ……?  THATS when I decided there would be no more study with them. They believe Jesus to be risen in the spirit from the dead and not the flesh. They don't believe what Jesus said, and there's a reason for that. False prophets do that. I'm sure Ronald Weinland has already said that to his followers too. (If you know who he is). The 'puzzle' that you present here… Islamist's use it too, to say he was never crucified. Jesus said clearly… a spirit doesn't have flesh and bone like he has. (I can't see what people don't get about that ?) And Jesus said to “Tear down this temple and in three days I will raise it up”. His body was the temple. And that temple –  his body – was risen up. So, following man or following God ? You are following man. I follow man sometimes…  but it has to be shown to me first…  by God… that it's ok…  And God shows me. OK so back to the discussion and the post you made before this… there is no 'mystery' or 'puzzle' to me either. As I said to Terrarica after reading the scripture, Jesus appeared to the Disciples in the risen flesh and bone body. He was RAISED FROM THE DEAD. He wasnt 'just a spirit or a ghost'. When he showed his hands and feet he said… “Spirit's don't have hands and feet as you see I have”. Why can't you just believe ?   “He said to Thomas, “Reach here your finger, and see my hands. Reach here your hand, and put it into my side. Don't be unbelieving, but believing.”  Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”  Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed.” Mary… It's only when Jesus said Mary's name that she looked up and knew who he was. She wasn't expecting him to be walking around alive so she assumed the figure talking to her was the gardener. It was early morning so probably still quite dark. When she spoke to him her head would have been down and she was weeping and grieving. He said to her “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?” And when he said her name She turned toward him and cried out “Rabboni!”. On the boat once again it was early morning and probably still quite dark and they were 100 yards from shore. They recognised him soon enough though.   The two men walking had their eyes deliberatly 'closed' untill after when they had their 'eyes opened'.  God can do anything. So there's no big mystery why they didn't recognise him. Plus his body would have been different I'm sure..We don't know how he looked when he was raised because it doesnt say.

shimmer

ok i see your answer now, but it is no answer you puking all over David just because he is a JW???

that does not accomplishes God will,if you were so sure of you respond and able to explain trough scriptures then you would show maturity and knowledge,

so your answer shows immaturity;

I do not agree with many thing with the JW but i defend my thoughts with scriptures not with slander.

so pick up scriptures and show scripture for scripture in your answer or your NO to me will not stand.

you have to understand there is more than the eye can see in that resurrection of Christ

Pierre

[shimmer]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 23 2010,13:09)

shimmer……….They Just do not get it!, i can't believe how something so simple can be so confusing to people. Just put (ALL) the Scriptures together and they will have the answer. Was God (IN) Jesus? Yes he was according to Jesus, NOW is GOD SPIRIT? YES HE IS, according to Jesus,  Now was GOD who is Spirit, a Body (IN) the BODY of Jesus,  Making two bodies? NO, He was NOT, He was a co-habiting Spirit (IN) Jesus' physical Body.  When scripture says try the Spirits to see if they are of GOD are we trying BODIES or Thoughts from a persons (INTELLECT)? , DO thought Have BODIES> NO they do NOT> Did Jesus say after his resurrection a Spirit does not Have FLESH and BONE another words a BODY AS HE DID ? Yes He DID,  In all the BODIES MENTIONED IN SCRIPTURE IS THERE (ANY) MENTION OF SPIRIT BODIES no there is not. The term a Spiritual (BODY) means a (PHYSICAL BODY THAT IS SPIRITUALLY MINDED)>  Put (ALL) the scriptures together nowhere does it say spirit are invisible (BODIES) going around jumping  in and our of people. Spirit is what is (IN) People,  not a BODY in a BODY. No wonder you people can't even get to first base in you understanding of GODS Word> The word BODY always imply a PHYSICAL Material Substance made up of MATTER.  All resurrections in scripture shows it is done with a VISIBLE BODIES .  IMO peace and love to you and yours Shimmer……………………………….gene

Hi Gene. Jesus said “Most certainly I tell you, unless you turn, and become as little children, you will in no way enter into the Kingdom of Heaven”. Well… children they just believe.

[shimmer]

Terrarica, are you a JW ? It sounds like you are.

I was giving David an honest answer, you don't agree with it so you get upset.

For your information, whenever the JWs come to my door I am friendly, I welcome them in if I have met them before, I speak nicely, and I don't debate with them. I accept their magazines and say thankyou. And I have friends who are JWs.

[terraricca]

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 24 2010,03:07)

Terrarica, are you a JW ? It sounds like you are. I was giving David an honest answer, you don't agree with it so you get upset. For your information, whenever the JWs come to my door I am friendly, I welcome them in if I have met them before, I speak nicely, and I don't debate with them. I accept their magazines and say thankyou. And I have friends who are JWs.

shimmer

No I Am not,but to me all men are gods slave and the difference between us is some listen to God some do not,

i read is argument and it was my point as well i would have come out the same way.

you see the big argument is Christ sacrifice of his live as a men his body and blood ,go read the last scene he explain it.

go to the law book and you would see that wen you make a sacrifice to God you can not take it back,

ok ,why would he take it back?? answer that question

he is resurrected spirit he as received all power from God on earth and in heaven,what would stop him to take any one he feel like to take

and there is more ,but answer the questions ?

Pierre

[shimmer]

Terrarica, I will (answer) tomorrow…iv ran out time. Ok…bye.

[GeneBalthrop]

Shimmer……….. WE all need to stand back and make sound sense out of what we are saying, and try to see the overall picture about the Gospel , like what is it s purpose , who is it dealing with (preexisting beings or Mankind) what purpose was GOD the Father effecting for all mankind by the MAN Jesus a SON OF MAN, Who became perfected by GOD to a calling GOD the Father has for all of us. How do we Identify with that calling and in what way do we, is being Separated from Jesus as Gnostic's and later Trinitarian and Preexistences teach the way GOD would want us to see His work in MANKIND through Jesus, The mental separation placed there by Preexistences only serves to separate GODS work (IN) Mankind and diminish Jesus' work as a pure human being. Jesus was MANS perfect example in every way. I wish you would reconsider you Preexistence convictions , but i am so pleased you do understand Jesus' Physical resurrection.

Peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………..gene

[Baker]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 23 2010,08:54)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2010,14:26) wen Christ dies he dies physically I mean his body is destroyed , I don't think so Pierre.  Because of these scriptures: Acts 2 NIV 31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. Acts 13 NIV 35 So it is also stated elsewhere:   “‘You will not let your holy one see decay.’ 36 “Now when David had served God’s purpose in his own generation, he fell asleep; he was buried with his ancestors and his body decayed. 37 But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.” Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2010,14:26) the body he takes to make him visible to his disciples his not the original body ,otherwise his disciples would have recognize him and they did not do that ,right ? They did recognize him sometimes.  Thomas knew the one he was putting his hand inside was Jesus.  In fact, all of them knew eventually.  But even though God “closed their eyes” to recognizing him on occasion does not mean Jesus' body was different from the one he died in, right? mike

Mike

Look at these scriptures
Ps. 16:10 “For thou wilt not leave my soul (body) in hell (grave); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption (decay).”
And Paul does explain,
2 Cor. 5:16 “Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.”
Jesus no longer looked the same, which also explains why all his friends did not recognize him “by sight”.
John 20:15 “Jesus said unto her (Mary Magdalene), Woman, why weepest thou? Whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have born him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.”
John 21:4 “But when the morning now was come, Jesus stood on the shore; but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.”
Luke 24:15 “And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.”
v. 16 “But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.”
Thomas became a believer because Jesus showed him the wounds, not because he recognized him, (John 20:26-29). Jesus could not appear in the same likeness as before; that body had taken on all of our sins; it was the exchange for Adam; it was the reason Jesus came to die; it had to remain dead because that is the penalty for sin, death, (Rom. 6:23).

The “flesh” body of Jesus had done its job, it took upon him all of our sins, and it had to remain dead, or else we will all remain dead once we die. God would not allow that body to decay as all of our body's do, so he deposed of it, for more then one reason.
Look what people do with the shroud of Turin.

Georg

[shimmer]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 24 2010,05:05)

Shimmer……….. WE all need to stand back and make sound sense out of what we are saying, and try to see the overall picture about the Gospel , like what is it s purpose , who is it dealing with (preexisting beings or Mankind) what purpose was GOD the Father effecting for all mankind by the MAN Jesus a SON OF MAN, Who became perfected by GOD to a calling GOD the Father has for all of us. How do we Identify with that calling and in what way do we, is being Separated from Jesus as Gnostic's and later Trinitarian and Preexistences teach the way GOD would want us to see His work in MANKIND through Jesus, The mental separation placed there by Preexistences only serves to separate GODS work (IN) Mankind and diminish Jesus' work as a pure human being. Jesus was MANS  perfect example in every way. I wish you would reconsider you Preexistence convictions , but i am so pleased you do understand Jesus' Physical resurrection. Peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………..gene

Gene, Jesus came from heaven, that is clear. No other person has ever walked this earth as a man who came from heaven. So what he spoke was higher than what any other man has spoken. I don't want to read in this thread anymore, I have to try and stop myself. It's got a bit depressing. I don't like debating thing's like this for too long. There's only so much you can say.

[terraricca]

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 24 2010,03:28)

Terrarica, I will (answer) tomorrow…iv ran out time. Ok…bye.

[seekingtruth]

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 24 2010,05:23)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 24 2010,05:05) Shimmer……….. WE all need to stand back and make sound sense out of what we are saying, and try to see the overall picture about the Gospel , like what is it s purpose , who is it dealing with (preexisting beings or Mankind) what purpose was GOD the Father effecting for all mankind by the MAN Jesus a SON OF MAN, Who became perfected by GOD to a calling GOD the Father has for all of us. How do we Identify with that calling and in what way do we, is being Separated from Jesus as Gnostic's and later Trinitarian and Preexistences teach the way GOD would want us to see His work in MANKIND through Jesus, The mental separation placed there by Preexistences only serves to separate GODS work (IN) Mankind and diminish Jesus' work as a pure human being. Jesus was MANS  perfect example in every way. I wish you would reconsider you Preexistence convictions , but i am so pleased you do understand Jesus' Physical resurrection. Peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………..gene Gene, Jesus came from heaven, that is clear. No other person has ever walked this earth as a man who came from heaven. So what he spoke was higher than what any other man has spoken. I don't want to read in this thread anymore,  I have to try and stop myself. It's got a bit depressing. I don't like debating thing's like this for too long. There's only so much you can say.

Shimmer,
Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Scripture tells us there is times we should be careful what we share, and who we share it with.  But be encouraged, yes we must seek truth, but God is patient during the times of confusion as long as we remain diligent.

My opinion – Wm

[GeneBalthrop]

To All………….interesting most of the people that quote that don't cast you pearls before swines are the most confused of all, IMO>

If a person is making a claim to something they seem to think they know then they need to produce it with clear accurate scripture understanding , not conjectures or it could mean this or that, but the more sure he posts it them the more specific should be his posts and should reflect all scripture concerning that topic as accurately as possible.

Here is a conjecture ” before Abraham I am”. O that is saying Jesus was alive before Abraham , So they start quoting it as meaning Before Abraham (EXISTED) I (Jesus) EXISTED on EARTH or I was alive before Abraham was, These are all conjectures that you can by forcing the text make it come out that way, but it does not specifically say that. Now if Jesus was making that his point he would have plainly said something like, i was (alive) before Abraham was alive. But is that there (NO) it is NOT there, so why force the text to say what in fact it does not say, Jesus could have just been showing the Pharisees He was in the Plan and Purpose of GOD Before Abraham was alive Just that simple. In fact commentaries have say that very thing that he was referencing his position not his actual existence.

I also believe Jesus was in the PLAN and Purpose of God right at the beginning of this creation we are in and that He had plan Jesus to be the FIRST FROM THIS CREATION TO BE BORN INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD FROM HUMANITY. Jesus is GOD purpose fro ALL of MANKIND , what GOD did in Jesus he can do in anyone He choses to and is going to do that, Jesus was just the First of many to go through that process and born into the family of GOD. He is the first to fulfill the Work of GOD in Mankind. IMO

peace and love………………………….gene

[shimmer]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 24 2010,12:17)

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 24 2010,05:23) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 24 2010,05:05) Shimmer……….. WE all need to stand back and make sound sense out of what we are saying, and try to see the overall picture about the Gospel , like what is it s purpose , who is it dealing with (preexisting beings or Mankind) what purpose was GOD the Father effecting for all mankind by the MAN Jesus a SON OF MAN, Who became perfected by GOD to a calling GOD the Father has for all of us. How do we Identify with that calling and in what way do we, is being Separated from Jesus as Gnostic's and later Trinitarian and Preexistences teach the way GOD would want us to see His work in MANKIND through Jesus, The mental separation placed there by Preexistences only serves to separate GODS work (IN) Mankind and diminish Jesus' work as a pure human being. Jesus was MANS  perfect example in every way. I wish you would reconsider you Preexistence convictions , but i am so pleased you do understand Jesus' Physical resurrection. Peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………..gene Gene, Jesus came from heaven, that is clear. No other person has ever walked this earth as a man who came from heaven. So what he spoke was higher than what any other man has spoken. I don't want to read in this thread anymore,  I have to try and stop myself. It's got a bit depressing. I don't like debating thing's like this for too long. There's only so much you can say. Shimmer, Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces. Scripture tells us there is times we should be careful what we share, and who we share it with.  But be encouraged, yes we must seek truth, but God is patient during the times of confusion as long as we remain diligent. My opinion – Wm

I agree Seeking.

Thankyou.

[shimmer]

By the way I wasn't agreeing and calling anyone swine or anything, I was just agreeing that sometimes it's better to walk away.

[seekingtruth]

Gene,
Well based on your reasoning of moving the comma to change “I tell you, today you will be” to “I tell you today, you will be” I suppose we should change this verse to say Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you before, Abraham was born I am.” so… were they not listening when He told them before, that Abraham was born I am?  

Did I get that right?

[seekingtruth]

Quote

By the way I wasn't agreeing and calling anyone swine or anything, I was just agreeing that sometimes it's better to walk away.

Actually I was not making reference to anyone in particular, just trying to point out what scripture said. It fits right in with the verse below.

Wm

[Baker]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 24 2010,11:53)

To All………….interesting most of the people that quote that don't cast you pearls before swines are the most confused of all, IMO> If a person is making a claim to something they seem to think they know then they need to produce it with clear accurate scripture understanding , not conjectures or it could mean this or that, but the more sure he posts it them the more specific should be his posts and should reflect all scripture concerning that topic as accurately as possible. Here is a conjecture ” before Abraham I am”. O that is saying Jesus was alive before Abraham , So they start quoting it as  meaning Before Abraham (EXISTED) I (Jesus) EXISTED on EARTH or I was alive before Abraham was, These are all conjectures that you can by forcing the text make it come out that way, but it does not specifically say that. Now if Jesus was making that his point he would have plainly said something like, i was (alive) before Abraham was alive. But is that there (NO) it is NOT there, so why force the text to say what in fact it does not say, Jesus could have just been showing the Pharisees  He was in the Plan and Purpose of GOD Before Abraham was alive Just that simple.  In fact commentaries have say that very thing that he was referencing his position not his actual existence. I also believe Jesus was in the PLAN and Purpose of God right at the beginning of this creation we are in and that He had plan Jesus to be the FIRST FROM THIS CREATION TO BE BORN INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD  FROM HUMANITY.   Jesus is GOD purpose fro ALL of MANKIND , what GOD did in Jesus he can do in anyone He choses to and is going to do that, Jesus was just the First of many to go through that process and born into the family of GOD. He is the first to fulfill  the Work of GOD in Mankind. IMO peace and love………………………….gene

Gene

You have a strange way of telling others to do what you should be doing your self.
It is obvious you don't believe the scriptures, so why should any one contend with you, or debate with you?
You only reason for being on this forum is to create more confusion, you know, those that do understand are not taken in by you.
I guess that is why you always end with, IMO; you have some bad opinions, IMO.

Georg

[Author]

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