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Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 21 2010,18:17) so let God s spirit guide you like i say wen you wish to continue ,it is your call. 
Are the posters here aware that Irene, Pierre and myself are NOT saying Jesus wasn't raised with a flesh body?
We ACKNOWLEDGE the scripture where Jesus said he still had “flesh and bone”, and that spirits DON'T HAVE FLESH AND BONE.
We are only waiting for the rest you to follow the OTHER part of that scripture. The part that says, “SPIRITS DO NOT HAVE FLESH AND BONE”.
Now add that teaching by Jesus to the three times in scripture where we are taught that Jesus is now a SPIRIT. Get it? If Jesus IS A SPIRIT, then by his own teaching, he CANNOT HAVE FLESH AND BONE.
Now, add in the scripture that says flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.
All very good reasons to understand that Jesus CANNOT POSSIBLY STILL BE FLESH.
And what do you have to argue against these scriptural facts? That Jesus will return the way he left? That could simply mean that he left through the clouds and will return from the clouds. It doesn't say anything about the BODY Jesus will return with.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Baker @ Dec. 22 2010,10:51) Kerwin! I just looked at Job 19;25-26 and Georg and I were debating this. We feel that that Scripture cannot be true. Nobody in the flesh can look at God in all of His glory directly and live. Inh the KJ Moffatt version it explains it this way
verse 25 Still I know One of champion me at last, to stand up for me upon the easrth.
verse 26 This body may brake up, but even then my life shall have a sight of God;
My hearth is pining as I yearn to see Him at my side. see Him estranged no longer…..Isiah 26:19 O Thou Eternal , thy dead shall live again, awakening with songs of joy; for the dew falls with light and life.
TIL DEATH SPIRITS ARISE……Math. 27:51-53 talks about what happened then and has nothing to do with the resurrection of most.,…
Dan. 12:2 Then the king gave the command to call the magicians, the astrologers, the sorceress, to tell the King His dreams. Nothing to do with either Spirit beings or the resurrection….
Peace and Love Irene
IreneJob 42:1 Then Job replied to the LORD?
Job 42:2 “I know that you can do all things;
no plan of yours can be thwarted.
Job 42:3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?’
Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me to know.Job 42:4 “You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.’
Job 42:5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.
Job 42:6 Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes.”look at verse 5 this is the conclution after he talked to God
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 22 2010,16:46) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 21 2010,18:17) so let God s spirit guide you like i say wen you wish to continue ,it is your call. 
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2010,10:34) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 22 2010,10:51) Kerwin! I just looked at Job 19;25-26 and Georg and I were debating this. We feel that that Scripture cannot be true. Nobody in the flesh can look at God in all of His glory directly and live. Inh the KJ Moffatt version it explains it this way
verse 25 Still I know One of champion me at last, to stand up for me upon the easrth.
verse 26 This body may brake up, but even then my life shall have a sight of God;
My hearth is pining as I yearn to see Him at my side. see Him estranged no longer…..Isiah 26:19 O Thou Eternal , thy dead shall live again, awakening with songs of joy; for the dew falls with light and life.
TIL DEATH SPIRITS ARISE……Math. 27:51-53 talks about what happened then and has nothing to do with the resurrection of most.,…
Dan. 12:2 Then the king gave the command to call the magicians, the astrologers, the sorceress, to tell the King His dreams. Nothing to do with either Spirit beings or the resurrection….
Peace and Love Irene
IreneJob 42:1 Then Job replied to the LORD?
Job 42:2 “I know that you can do all things;
no plan of yours can be thwarted.
Job 42:3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?’
Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me to know.Job 42:4 “You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.’
Job 42:5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.
Job 42:6 Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes.”look at verse 5 this is the conclution after he talked to God
Pierre
Pierre! I only quoted Job 19:25-26 because Kerwin brougght it up….thats all…..Peace and Love IreneQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 22 2010,16:57) Are the posters here aware that Irene, Pierre and myself are NOT saying Jesus wasn't raised with a flesh body? We ACKNOWLEDGE the scripture where Jesus said he still had “flesh and bone”, and that spirits DON'T HAVE FLESH AND BONE.
We are only waiting for the rest you to follow the OTHER part of that scripture. The part that says, “SPIRITS DO NOT HAVE FLESH AND BONE”.
Now add that teaching by Jesus to the three times in scripture where we are taught that Jesus is now a SPIRIT. Get it? If Jesus IS A SPIRIT, then by his own teaching, he CANNOT HAVE FLESH AND BONE.
Now, add in the scripture that says flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.
All very good reasons to understand that Jesus CANNOT POSSIBLY STILL BE FLESH.
And what do you have to argue against these scriptural facts? That Jesus will return the way he left? That could simply mean that he left through the clouds and will return from the clouds. It doesn't say anything about the BODY Jesus will return with.
peace and love,
mike
Mikenow let get clear ,wen Jesus died his flesh body wen it is a sacrifice to God,
since he died ,his spirit returns to God say scriptures just like all of us,(were it goes
)so wen Christ reappears he has a other body,in flesh and bones,now was he transformed into that body ? to me personally i think he just materialized himself just as angels do,
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 22 2010,09:57) Are the posters here aware that Irene, Pierre and myself are NOT saying Jesus wasn't raised with a flesh body? We ACKNOWLEDGE the scripture where Jesus said he still had “flesh and bone”, and that spirits DON'T HAVE FLESH AND BONE.
We are only waiting for the rest you to follow the OTHER part of that scripture. The part that says, “SPIRITS DO NOT HAVE FLESH AND BONE”.
Now add that teaching by Jesus to the three times in scripture where we are taught that Jesus is now a SPIRIT. Get it? If Jesus IS A SPIRIT, then by his own teaching, he CANNOT HAVE FLESH AND BONE.
Now, add in the scripture that says flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.
All very good reasons to understand that Jesus CANNOT POSSIBLY STILL BE FLESH.
And what do you have to argue against these scriptural facts? That Jesus will return the way he left? That could simply mean that he left through the clouds and will return from the clouds. It doesn't say anything about the BODY Jesus will return with.
peace and love,
mike
Mike! I find it so ironic that just because we believe in the preexisting of Jesus, that now we have the spirit of Anti-Christ, and don't believe that Jesus came in the flesh. How wrong can you get…..Believe me I am glad that I am not alone in this. It always makes me feel rather bad, that Gene would even think that way…..But then his believes do not line up with mine at all….Even after I gave him a scripture in 1 John 4
Peace and love IreneQuote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2010,11:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 22 2010,16:57) Are the posters here aware that Irene, Pierre and myself are NOT saying Jesus wasn't raised with a flesh body? We ACKNOWLEDGE the scripture where Jesus said he still had “flesh and bone”, and that spirits DON'T HAVE FLESH AND BONE.
We are only waiting for the rest you to follow the OTHER part of that scripture. The part that says, “SPIRITS DO NOT HAVE FLESH AND BONE”.
Now add that teaching by Jesus to the three times in scripture where we are taught that Jesus is now a SPIRIT. Get it? If Jesus IS A SPIRIT, then by his own teaching, he CANNOT HAVE FLESH AND BONE.
Now, add in the scripture that says flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.
All very good reasons to understand that Jesus CANNOT POSSIBLY STILL BE FLESH.
And what do you have to argue against these scriptural facts? That Jesus will return the way he left? That could simply mean that he left through the clouds and will return from the clouds. It doesn't say anything about the BODY Jesus will return with.
peace and love,
mike
Mikenow let get clear ,wen Jesus died his flesh body wen it is a sacrifice to God,
since he died ,his spirit returns to God say scriptures just like all of us,(were it goes
)so wen Christ reappears he has a other body,in flesh and bones,now was he transformed into that body ? to me personally i think he just materialized himself just as angels do,
Pierre
Pierre! What are you saying here. You don't believe 1 Corinth. 15:44 does not apply to Jesus? Wwell I do….Peace and Love IreneQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 22 2010,11:57) Are the posters here aware that Irene, Pierre and myself are NOT saying Jesus wasn't raised with a flesh body? We ACKNOWLEDGE the scripture where Jesus said he still had “flesh and bone”, and that spirits DON'T HAVE FLESH AND BONE.
We are only waiting for the rest you to follow the OTHER part of that scripture. The part that says, “SPIRITS DO NOT HAVE FLESH AND BONE”.
Now add that teaching by Jesus to the three times in scripture where we are taught that Jesus is now a SPIRIT. Get it? If Jesus IS A SPIRIT, then by his own teaching, he CANNOT HAVE FLESH AND BONE.
Now, add in the scripture that says flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.
All very good reasons to understand that Jesus CANNOT POSSIBLY STILL BE FLESH.
And what do you have to argue against these scriptural facts? That Jesus will return the way he left? That could simply mean that he left through the clouds and will return from the clouds. It doesn't say anything about the BODY Jesus will return with.
peace and love,
mike
Mike i'm, 90% sure that somewhere not too long ago in this thread, you said that Jesus when he showed himself to the Disciples and said “see my hands and feet” you said he had turned from a spirit being into a visible spirit being, and that is what I went against. So, I really don't feel like going back over the whole thread to find where you said it. If i'm wrong then I apologise but I have nothing more to say here.Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 22 2010,12:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 22 2010,11:57) Are the posters here aware that Irene, Pierre and myself are NOT saying Jesus wasn't raised with a flesh body? We ACKNOWLEDGE the scripture where Jesus said he still had “flesh and bone”, and that spirits DON'T HAVE FLESH AND BONE.
We are only waiting for the rest you to follow the OTHER part of that scripture. The part that says, “SPIRITS DO NOT HAVE FLESH AND BONE”.
Now add that teaching by Jesus to the three times in scripture where we are taught that Jesus is now a SPIRIT. Get it? If Jesus IS A SPIRIT, then by his own teaching, he CANNOT HAVE FLESH AND BONE.
Now, add in the scripture that says flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.
All very good reasons to understand that Jesus CANNOT POSSIBLY STILL BE FLESH.
And what do you have to argue against these scriptural facts? That Jesus will return the way he left? That could simply mean that he left through the clouds and will return from the clouds. It doesn't say anything about the BODY Jesus will return with.
peace and love,
mike
Mike i'm, 90% sure that somewhere not too long ago in this thread, you said that Jesus when he showed himself to the Disciples and said “see my hands and feet” you said he had turned from a spirit being into a visible spirit being, and that is what I went against. So, I really don't feel like going back over the whole thread to find where you said it. If i'm wrong then I apologise but I have nothing more to say here.
Hi Shimmer,Not even to the large-sized part above?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2010,11:26) Mike now let get clear ,wen Jesus died his flesh body wen it is a sacrifice to God,
since he died ,his spirit returns to God say scriptures just like all of us,(were it goes )
so wen Christ reappears he has a other body,in flesh and bones,now was he transformed into that body ? to me personally i think he just materialized himself just as angels do,
Hi Pierre,That's not what I'm understanding. Paul says that God didn't let Jesus' body see decay like David's did. I understand what you're saying about the body of Jesus being “burned on the alter” so to speak, as a sacrifice. But the rest of the scriptures don't back that up.
The rest of the scriptures seem to teach that he was raised in the exact same body that he died in. But now he is a spirit in a glorious new body. I can't say when exactly that transformation that Paul mentioned happened to Jesus' body. But we can be sure it did because he is now in God's Kingdom as a spirit. (Paul does say it happens in the “twinkling of an eye”, right? It could have happened the instant Jesus was out of sight to those on the ground watching him ascend. )
peace and love,
mikeAnd Shimmer,
You might be right about whatever I posted before……..I don't remember anymore. I know I've learned alot from this thread and have altered my understanding as I've found and been shown scriptures. I'm right now not sure about angels “materializing” bodies at will. It could also just be a matter of “stepping into our dimension” also. Or a matter of God or the angel himself “adjusting” our eyes so we can see him.
But you know what I believe now about the body Jesus was raised from the dead with, and the body he ascended into heaven with, right?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Baker @ Dec. 22 2010,18:32) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2010,11:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 22 2010,16:57) Are the posters here aware that Irene, Pierre and myself are NOT saying Jesus wasn't raised with a flesh body? We ACKNOWLEDGE the scripture where Jesus said he still had “flesh and bone”, and that spirits DON'T HAVE FLESH AND BONE.
We are only waiting for the rest you to follow the OTHER part of that scripture. The part that says, “SPIRITS DO NOT HAVE FLESH AND BONE”.
Now add that teaching by Jesus to the three times in scripture where we are taught that Jesus is now a SPIRIT. Get it? If Jesus IS A SPIRIT, then by his own teaching, he CANNOT HAVE FLESH AND BONE.
Now, add in the scripture that says flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.
All very good reasons to understand that Jesus CANNOT POSSIBLY STILL BE FLESH.
And what do you have to argue against these scriptural facts? That Jesus will return the way he left? That could simply mean that he left through the clouds and will return from the clouds. It doesn't say anything about the BODY Jesus will return with.
peace and love,
mike
Mikenow let get clear ,wen Jesus died his flesh body wen it is a sacrifice to God,
since he died ,his spirit returns to God say scriptures just like all of us,(were it goes
)so wen Christ reappears he has a other body,in flesh and bones,now was he transformed into that body ? to me personally i think he just materialized himself just as angels do,
Pierre
Pierre! What are you saying here. You don't believe 1 Corinth. 15:44 does not apply to Jesus? Wwell I do….Peace and Love Irene
Irenenot at all what i was referring too was only his body part physical part that is .
IT GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH 1 COR 15;44 AND 45AS HE APEART TO HIS DICIPLES.
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 22 2010,20:22) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2010,11:26) Mike now let get clear ,wen Jesus died his flesh body wen it is a sacrifice to God,
since he died ,his spirit returns to God say scriptures just like all of us,(were it goes )
so wen Christ reappears he has a other body,in flesh and bones,now was he transformed into that body ? to me personally i think he just materialized himself just as angels do,
Hi Pierre,That's not what I'm understanding. Paul says that God didn't let Jesus' body see decay like David's did. I understand what you're saying about the body of Jesus being “burned on the alter” so to speak, as a sacrifice. But the rest of the scriptures don't back that up.
The rest of the scriptures seem to teach that he was raised in the exact same body that he died in. But now he is a spirit in a glorious new body. I can't say when exactly that transformation that Paul mentioned happened to Jesus' body. But we can be sure it did because he is now in God's Kingdom as a spirit. (Paul does say it happens in the “twinkling of an eye”, right? It could have happened the instant Jesus was out of sight to those on the ground watching him ascend. )
peace and love,
mike
Mikeread again, time your space,
wen Christ dies he dies physically I mean his body is destroyed ,
the hearth is stopped the blood is poured out ,his spirit does not remain in is dead body,no? yes?i think nohis body is a sacrifice to God for the sins of man (Adam sin)
payment is made now, right ?yes
now he is resurrected spirit ,right ? yes
the body he takes to make him visible to his disciples his not the original body ,otherwise his disciples would have recognize him and they did not do that ,right ? yes
and it happen more then ones;
and that is my point that s all , Pierre
To all,
At this point I am just discussing the body one has when undergoing the final resurrection of the dead. This is the resurrection I believe both Jesus and those selected dead in Matthew 27:51-53 are recorded as undergoing. In both examples Scripture attests that a body was present. In the case of Jesus we it is demonstrated to be a flesh and bone body and in the case of the selected dead it is said to be a body that arose from the broken tombs that the corruptible body was laid in.
In the Old Testament we are informed that the dead shall arise from the earth just as both Jesus and those selected dead did.
The only other case I know of the observation of a person who rose from the dead is the case of Mosses as the Archangel Michael disputed with Satan over his body thus showing he died the first death and yet he is living and in the flesh when speaking with Jesus at the Transfiguration. Elijah is also there and in the flesh even though scripture states he was carried to heaven in a tornado.
These events must be accounted for when determining the type of body the soul, which is spiritual in nature, has as a tent.
Meekness is being humble and patient. All of God’s people are called to be meek. Meekness is just one facet of loving as God commands you to love. If you live according to the Spirit you will obey God’s command to Love and so be meek. The same is true for the rest of the B-attitudes in Matthew 5:3-12 as they are are promises of God to those who choose to enter the new covenant and will be fulfilled for those remaining faithful to that covenant.
Irene,
As far as Revelation 7: 13-14 is concerned anyone who enters the new covenant and persists in holding to its precepts though faith will be there to praise our God in those times.
You read Daniel 2:2 instead of Daniel 12:2. I quoted the later.
I was not stating that all the dead were resurrected when Jesus died. That may be the first resurrection mentioned by John in the book of Revelations but I am more prone to believe he was speaking of future resurrections and not those that already occurred.
Job 19:25-26 sounds like a scripture in which experts disagree over how to correctly translate it. That means it cannot be used for a proof scripture on this issue.
The same may be true for Isaiah 26:19.
Mike Boll,
I can see your case to state Job 19:25-26 cannot be used as a proof scripture on this issue.
Can you give me the scriptures that state that no man or flesh has ever seen God?
Scripture does Mosses did but I believe it was speaking of an angel at that time, Exodus 33:11 and Deuteronomy 34:10. It could have also been metrological.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 22 2010,15:26) And Shimmer, You might be right about whatever I posted before……..I don't remember anymore. I know I've learned alot from this thread and have altered my understanding as I've found and been shown scriptures. I'm right now not sure about angels “materializing” bodies at will. It could also just be a matter of “stepping into our dimension” also. Or a matter of God or the angel himself “adjusting” our eyes so we can see him.
But you know what I believe now about the body Jesus was raised from the dead with, and the body he ascended into heaven with, right?
peace and love,
mike
Good. Well at least you got that far. So what I recalled you saying and what upset me so much… I thought you still believed.Just ignore what Terrarica just said and you will be right then
Mike
you say;;Hi Pierre,
That's not what I'm understanding. Paul says that God didn't let Jesus' body see decay like David's did. I understand what you're saying about the body of Jesus being “burned on the alter” so to speak, as a sacrifice. But the rest of the scriptures don't back that up.
The rest of the scriptures seem to teach that he was raised in the exact same body that he died in. But now he is a spirit in a glorious new body. I can't say when exactly that transformation that Paul mentioned happened to Jesus' body. But we can be sure it did because he is now in God's Kingdom as a spirit. (Paul does say it happens in the “twinkling of an eye”, right? It could have happened the instant Jesus was out of sight to those on the ground watching him ascend. )
peace and love,
mike
===============================================================Jesus body is a offering to God and is so sacrificed;gone it will never seen decay,right (burning offering for the sins of men)
3 days Christ is back has he said he would be, but not with the body he had offered to God for our sins,that body died done with,no one can take back his voluntary sacrifice to God ,it would belong to God not to you because you have given it to him,
when we pledge to God to serve him ,our body's now belong to God not to us, and the sacrifice of Christ covers our sins previous to that action,but if we leave God and the protection of Christ sacrifice we now have nothing left that will save us from sin.
for those reasons the body of Christ after his resurrection is not his original body.
if you say that it was is real body in wich he die with ,then why his disciples did not recognized him,and if it would be that body ,then what was the point to die?? yes Christ took his live back but it never says he took his body back,that part was sacrificed
to god to pay the ransom for our sins,Pierre
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2010,17:17) Irene, As far as Revelation 7: 13-14 is concerned anyone who enters the new covenant and persists in holding to its precepts though faith will be there to praise our God in those times.
You read Daniel 2:2 instead of Daniel 12:2. I quoted the later.
I was not stating that all the dead were resurrected when Jesus died. That may be the first resurrection mentioned by John in the book of Revelations but I am more prone to believe he was speaking of future resurrections and not those that already occurred.
Job 19:25-26 sounds like a scripture in which experts disagree over how to correctly translate it. That means it cannot be used for a proof scripture on this issue.
The same may be true for Isaiah 26:19.
Kerwin! I don't believe that those in Daniel that were resurrected with Jesus, went with Jesus to Heaven. Because of these Scriptures below.Jhn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.
Jhn 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
Scripture is not saying what happened to those….
I don't think that is the first resurrection either, because the Millennium will start then, and that has not happened yet….As far as Rev. 7:13-134 is concerned, I hope you are right, because I said my hope is that I will be among them…..And if it is God's will, I will.
And I agree about Job 19….and Isaiah …..it is speculation at best…..
Peace and love Irene
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