Do spirits have bodies?

Participant

Quote (Istari @ July 11 2011,00:53)

Shimmer,
You are a shining light…

Excellent post again.

I certainly think YOU KNOW WHAT IS LIKE TO BE IN SPIRIT WITH SOMEONE.

Thankyou Istari.

Knowledge, or experience does help.

You can't say, you know what it's like to be with someone in Spirit only, without Body, unless you have been there.

And so is love for our Father… in Spirit and in truth. Truth… which is Spirit. And truth which is obediance.

July 11, 2011 at 12:49 am#251867

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 11 2011,02:48)

Quote (shimmer @ July 10 2011,05:58)

Does Spirit have a Body? Or does Spirit NEED a Body? NO!

But Spirit can be IN a body.

So… I can understand that from the point of view of Jesus being in Heaven – even if in Body… being with us in Spirit.

Hi Shimmer,

Very good. Now consider the point Pierre and I have pushed since this thread started: If Jesus is with YOU in spirit right now, but not with ME in spirit, then there are places (YOU) where Jesus' spirit IS, and there are places (ME) where Jesus' spirit IS NOT. In order for ANYTHING AT ALL, whether it be a thought, a prayer, or a spirit, to be in SOME places but not ALL places, there has to be some outer parameter that is distinguishing where that spirit IS from where it IS NOT.

Consider that SOME people get baptized and God's Holy Spirit dwells within them. But OTHER people do NOT have God's Holy Spirit dwelling in THEM. So there are always places where God's Holy Spirit dwells at the same time there are places it doesn't. SOMETHING has to be limiting God's Spirit as being HERE and not THERE.

Okay, that's one aspect of “spirit”, but not the aspect this thead was started to discuss. This thread was started to discuss whether or not spirit BEINGS, like angels and Jesus and God, have bodies.

Will you state CLEARLY for the record how you feel about Paul having his body transformed? Do you really think Paul was hoping to have his lowly body transformed into a glorious new one like Jesus has, just so he could IMMEDIATELY shed that body upon ascension to heaven?

Do you seriously think Paul is anxious to receive a body like the one Jesus has hanging in a closet somewhere?

Or, does it make more sense that Paul, knowing his citizenship would be in heaven, was anxious to receive the glorious new body he would have in heaven?

peace,
mike

Mikeboll,
The reason you cannot understand SPIRIT is because you think of SPIRIT like it is FLESH.

Spirit IS NOT FLESH.. That's the whole point.

If you keep thinking SPIRIT is a thing that IS A BODY OF SOME KIND then you will forever be in the dark.

If SPIRIT had a Body – What need does it have to OCCUPY ONE in the physical realm?

Why is it IN THE BODY OF FLESH?

See, you cannot write a sentence using Spirit and visible and physical without saying that the Spirit occupies a BODY.

If the SPIRIT OCCUPIES A BODY then it itself is not a Body but that which occupies the body.

The body is a House by analogy. The tenant of that house is not 'the house' or 'a house' but a person (If you like).

So if a Spirit has a HOUSE THAT IT OCCUPIES then WHAT IS THAT WHICH OCCUPIES THAT HOUSE?

BY THE WAY, The OUTER PERIMETER OF A BODY is called SKIN…

So if you say that the OUTER PERIMETER of a Spirit is it's Body you still have to define what is INSIDE THAT Skin…
Mike, you would have to call that which is INSIDE THE SKIN – the BODY – which to you is The SPIRIT … So you still haven't answered : What is the SPIRIT?

Now you jumping off the ledge saying that even THOUGHT has a Body… My God are you a lost soul…

And you even saying GOD ALMIGHTY is not OMNIPRESENT… even after you have been shown two decisive verses attesting to it from two of God's own beloved (David and Ezekiel).

You are RIGHT to say 'You (Mikeboll) are God' – I have said before that that is what you are SEEKING (Just like a Satan) – your footer text attests to your desire… I have written concerning this before and now you compound it by your own words…

Seriously, Mike, are you saying that YOU CAN HIDE FROM THE PRESENCE OF GOD ALMIGHTY?
Please explain.

I have said that you think Earthly thoughts that limit your SPIRITIAL MIND… now you limit GOD HIMSELF BY YOUR EARTHLY MIND.

Spirit is not FLESH that it is in ONE PLACE AT A TIME. you push of High school physics when it is exactly right.

SCIENCE IS NOT WRONG.
It is human beings who misuse it and deny God by it who are wrong.
Science UNCOVERS THE TRUTH OF THE PHYSICAL WORLD and Models the NonePhysical World.
We CANNOT CREATE 5th dimensional figures in 3 dimensional Space… Yes, they can be drawn on paper but not created physically – it is IMPOSSIBLE (Don't , Mike, just DON'T SAY IT…!!)

Even to design a 5th dimensional figure means using something called 'IMAGINARY NUMBERS' (No, Mike, stop it – stop it now!!)
Imaginary number (square root of -1( minus one)) is the basis of multidimensional designs – they cannot exist in the three dimensions hence the USE OF THE TECHICAL Mathematical TERM…

Mike, is this just too heavy for you.. Then just BELIEVE…no man can understand everything in our present state so it is No Shame for you not to – there are those who Can – and those who cannot – but for ever one that can there is one that cannot – you just out of your depth with this one my friend…

A body, cannot exist outside of the third dimension (Fourth is TIME) because the three dimensions are EXACTLY what establishes a BODY – Length, Breadth, Width… A static body in one single place , Add time and you have MOVEMENT: The body in motion…in THE THREE DIMENSIONAL SPACE…
mike, this is what you see ALL AROUND YOU – Flatlander Man can't envisage what a 3D world is like…
3D man – earthly man (You) can't envisage a 5D world.

5D man(?) is EVERYWHERE in 3D world – not PHYSICALLY – because there is Body… Understand… But in that which OCCUPIES A BODY : The SPIRIT .. The thought, the mind, the presence, the Will.

Now, what you want to know is HOW CAN A SPIRIT BE IN ONE PLACE BUT NOT ANOTHER… well, Mikeboll, Gather your thoughts on this, oops what did I just say…?!!
Yes, bring that Spirit DOWN (There IS NO UP DOWN LEFT OR RIGHT IN THE SPIRIT WORLD) into the 3rd dimension…CAN YOU SEE A THOUGHT, can you see a mind, can you TOUCH A WILL,.., no, so in order for the SPIRIT to INTERACT with 3d man it needs to encase itself, shroud itself, in a temporary body that is visible and physical…and .. In an acceptable form to it's target – a human being – so it materialises in HUMAN FORM. In that physical form it can only be in one place at a time – obviously…it is a BODY.. And a body is a collection of parts acting in unity so it cannot be several places at the same time – only ONE… the INTELLIGENCE THAT IS THAT SPIRIT IS IN ONE PLACE.
in HEAVEN, here and there are noneExistent, there is no such thing.
Their usage in Scriptures is metaphysical and symbolic for the purposes of human understanding only…
Like, God's right hand… Does God really have a HAND (or two)?
How is Jesus said to be 'At God's right hand' AND that God is 'At Jesus' Right hand'… (Find the verses!) Impossible if you think with Earthly minds…
But a Spiritual mind says 'No problem'. 'Right hand' means 'In power and favour' – see simple… So Jesus is in Gods power and favour and Jesus has God in his power and favour at his right hand… So simple with a Spiritual mind…impossible with a fleshly mind – do you get it.. It's nothing to do with physical positioning …
Also, you keep asking and I keep telling but you never listen:
Angels 'COME AND GO' FROM THE direct presence of GOD's WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE (His Spirit).
Th
ey COME TO HIM meaning He wants them to know something… Then they go out – meaning they take the knowledge with them to go and do the errand that they were called into God's wisdom to 'hear'.

'Hear': To take in knowledge…to be EMPOWERED.

ANGEL Spirits are POWERS – INTELLIGENT RULE BASED FORCES…
THE SPIRIT OF MAN is different in that we are not RULE BASED BUT FREE WILLED IN THE IMAGE OF GOD HIMSELF BUT RESTRICTED BY THE FLESH BODIES AND THE FLESH WORLD…

But the FLESH ITSELF (I saw you write) due to sinfulness, has a self-self seeking nature, a selfish, greedy, perverted sinful nature which leads to corruption and finally death in decay: viz, the NATURAL Mortal BODY.

This is where the SPIRITUAL BODY arises – it is not selfish, greedy, perverted, nor sinful and is not corrupt nor subject to decay so is IMMORTAL.
Therefore, the SPIRIT WILL OCCUPY THAT BODY FOREVER… On Paradise Earth. It is STILL A BODY OF FLESH AND BLOOD but is a glorious incorruptible body which cannot suffer pain, hurt, exhaustion, damage… How many times were MIRACLES SHOWN where a damaged body was healed : was this just for 'kicks' or did it demonstrate what a SPIRITUAL BODY would be like – self healing, self maintaining, self sustaining in it's glorious form.
It's nothing to do with going to Heaven. Flesh and blood, even A Spiritual flesh and blood body is still FLESH AND BLOOD.

July 11, 2011 at 3:17 am#251884

Blocked

Istari,

Break down your post into one paragraph per post and I might actually read it.

You talk too much, thereby defeating yourself. Because even if you ever have a good point to make, I for one won't be reading it in that extremely over-long mish-mash of words.

Short and to the point, okay?

July 11, 2011 at 3:19 am#251885

Blocked

Quote (Pastry @ July 10 2011,17:29)

Hey Mike, Georg said “good job.” I think its funny……

I did too! I also thought it was spot on!

July 11, 2011 at 3:20 am#251886

Blocked

Hi Shimmer,

I await your response about Paul's transformed body – just so we have your view on record.

July 11, 2011 at 3:29 am#251888

Participant

all

we should also understand that God is not only a spirit but invisible;

Ro 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
1Ti 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Heb 11:27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible.

so it would be right to say that God is an invisible spirit ,right?

Pierre

July 11, 2011 at 3:37 am#251891

Blocked

Invisible to men, yes.

July 11, 2011 at 3:38 am#251892

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 11 2011,21:37)

Invisible to men, yes.

mike

you are totally right

July 11, 2011 at 3:52 am#251896

Pastry

Participant

If God wants to make a Spiritual body, He can do so. Whether we think it is not so, or true. And Scriptures have said so, that God will give it a body as He see's fit, not Istari, Shimmer or us for that matter. Some simple don't understand what is meant by natural body and spiritual body. It even says that first the natural body and then the spiritual body.
1 Corinth is talking about the resurrection of the body. So why is it that Istari and Shimmer think that natural is the same then spiritual bodies? It is not. When I read this
1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

These Scriptures is talking about the resurrection of the dead. And with what body they are resurrected…..IT IS RAISED A SPIRITUAL BODY..,..NOT A NATURAL BODY, that was first and then the spiritual body, get it…..

Peace Irene

July 11, 2011 at 7:29 am#251914

Participant

Irene,

For the purpose of the record – please tell us:
1) what YOU MEAN by the SPIRITUAL BODY
2) give some examples of where Scriptures alludes to such

Let me set some parameters – feel free t break them.

1) 'Spiritual body' (SlB) is the term under consideration – not 'SPIRIT BODY'
2) Jesus was RAISED FROM THE DEAD INTO SlB
3) Jesus PROVED HIS RISING FROM THE DEAD to THOMAS ('See, I am NOT a SPIRIT')
4) Jesus was RAISED into a SlB and was SEEN and TOUCHED in a SlB (Body OF FLESH)
5) If Jesus said he was not a Spirit but you say he was – then someone is in great error!!!
6) All the discussion is currently concerning a Flesh and Blood man – the topic title is concerning SPIRITS HAVING BODIES… A man, even Jesus on Earth, is NOT A SPIRIT!!
7) SCRIPTURES SAYS THAT 'A body' CANNOT OCCUPY HEAVEN – which even human physics, Science, lowly man…whatever… Has proved as much… You may not understand it but then I don't understand the language of birds but it does mean birds don't have language.
8) Consider what is meant by 'a Citizen of Heaven'.

July 11, 2011 at 7:42 am#251918

Participant

Quote (Istari @ July 12 2011,01:29)

Irene,

For the purpose of the record – please tell us:
1) what YOU MEAN by the SPIRITUAL BODY
2) give some examples of where Scriptures alludes to such

Let me set some parameters – feel free t break them.

istari

you belive scriptures or not?

1Co 15:35 But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”
1Co 15:36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
1Co 15:37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
1Co 15:38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.
1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.
1Co 15:40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.
1Co 15:41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
1Co 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
1Co 15:43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
1Co 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Paul or you are right witch one is it ?

Pierre

July 11, 2011 at 7:45 am#251919

Participant

Mikeboll has shown again that he has nothing to say.

Mike has nothing to offer – he is spent – dried up – wasted.

Every so-called 'proof' he has brought to the table has been soundly trashed by reason and logic and commonsense (Commonsense I call 'God sense' for EVERYONE has it – well, all excepting Mikeboll, Terraricca and Irene, it seems ON THIS MATTER!)

Mike has lurched from one incredible nonsense (Nonsense!?) to another modifying his ideas with the sole intent of DISPUTE.

He is SO INCENSED by being soundly and roundly beaten into the ground that he is DETERMINED ONE WAY OR ANOTHER (The beginning of the FALL) to find a way to DEFEAT TRUTH (Sad Man)!

He states that he CANNOT READ MY LONG POSTS… no no no… It is not the reading that he CANNOT DO – it is the TRUTH IN IT THAT HE CANNOT REFUTE.
Consider, Mike will read (as I do) MANY MANY Chapters of complexed Scriptures with references and Accordions (is that what is called!) showing alternative wordings, etc etc…
Now… Tell me that a HIGHLY condensed version of that presented IN THE FORUM is beyond Mikeboll's reading ability…

No, MIKE TAKES PRIDE in saying he DOES NOT /CANNOT read it — so that he can DUCK OUT OF WHAT WAS SAID… turn a deaf 'eye' as it were… Then come back at some later stage claiming that Istari did not answer his question – or did not present Scriptures.

Bad boy, Mikeboll, bad Boy!! You have no hiding place from getting a hiding…!

Why, because I am EVERYWHERE in Spirit… Now if only I could hide from the Terror of Terra…!

July 11, 2011 at 7:47 am#251920

Participant

Quote (Istari @ July 12 2011,01:29)

Irene,

For the purpose of the record – please tell us:
1) what YOU MEAN by the SPIRITUAL BODY
2) give some examples of where Scriptures alludes to such

Let me set some parameters – feel free t break them.

istari

if you would have faith you would believe scriptures no?

your questions are all answered in this topic but you only believe in you or the way you see it fit

Pierre

look you got a lucky number

July 11, 2011 at 7:50 am#251921

Participant

Mike,

I keep asking a question and you keep trying to hide from it hoping it will go away (Phew!!)

What IS the SPIRIT in relation to the BODY?

July 11, 2011 at 7:53 am#251922

Participant

Irene,
Add another point to that list:
What does Galations 6:1 mean by the 'Spiritual Man' (Who are human beings in flesh and blood bodies)

Please answer in the context of your misunderstand and relate it to 'SPIRIT MAN'.

July 11, 2011 at 7:54 am#251924

Participant

actually, Mikeboll might like to offer an opinion too – Mike?

July 11, 2011 at 9:25 am#251936

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 11 2011,15:20)

Hi Shimmer,

I await your response about Paul's transformed body – just so we have your view on record.

Mike,

Hermas…

No spirit given by God requires to be asked…..The spirit which is asked and speaks according to the desires of men is earthly, light, and powerless.”

Read Daniel 3 and Malachi 4 and tell me what you think.

July 11, 2011 at 9:48 am#251937

Participant

Quote (Istari @ July 11 2011,06:39)

Hey Gene,
I haven't watched whatever it is that Mike posted – but if you think it is as you say and you have clicked the 'Report as Abuse' button then let us see what t8 does say and do about it.

Mike has reached the stage where he has nothing else to offer but lame blusterings : he doesn't even understand what being a 'Citizen of Heaven' means.

Does he know that Paul was a 'Citizen of Rome'. What do we know about Paul's status as 'a Citizen of Rome'?

Is being a citizen necessarily mean you have to be IN THAT CITY/STATE or does it just mean you BELONG TO THAT CITY/STATE and conform to it's laws, regulations, standards and specification?
Is not the Citizen of Heaven one who conforms to the standards that are EXPECTED, nay, MANDATORY, for Heaven?
'Lost in translation': were not the two main characters behaving as CITIZENS OF AMERICA even while their physical bodies were in JAPAN?

A citizen, one who conforms to the standards, need not necessarily EVER have been to their place of Citizenship… It is their STATUS AS CITIZENS – not their location that matters.
For how are those who are in Fleshly bodies, even spiritual ones, to be citizens of heaven yet never to actually go there?
Because it is their CONFORMING TO THE STANDARDS OF THEIR CITIZENSHIP that matters.

Interesting thoughts, and the post before it. That's what I was thinking of just before, with Daniel 3 and Malachi 4.

July 11, 2011 at 9:56 am#251938