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Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 21 2011,20:17) Quote (terraricca @ June 20 2011,19:44) 3)spirits = are heavenly being and some are called angels.
Hi Pierre,A demon is nothing more than an angel who chose NOT to follow God. Like angels, demons ARE spirits, which means “a spirit being”.
Kar, I agree with Pierre that love is not created, but part of many things that are on loan to us through the spirit of God which animates us.
Mikethis is what I understand;
there are two places who are with evil spirit that is the heaven and the earth
Satan and his angels are fighting in the heaven and the powers of the earth,(Daniel)
the demon are like i say the souls of the offspring of the angels who materialize and went with the daughters of men, and after the flood the angels went back to heaven but the nephilim half men and half angel had no place to go,when men dies his spirit /soul is going back to God,but they were not men nor angel so they were stuck around the earth and stayed with men,and some looking for people willing to take them in, they are impure souls or spirit ,born from a corrupt and rebellious relationship,
and remember Jesus remove those demons out of the people that came to him,were the demon went after they have been removed is anyone guess,because Christ did not destroyed them,I believe they still here with us on the earth,that it is why there could not be peace on earth until Christ comes back and destroy them,,
Satan and all his followersPierre
Mike,
Quote Kerwin: Your Strong's definition only goes to prove MY point: If the Greek word refers to someone possessed BY a demon, then the evil spirit that person is possessed by IS a demon. But this one should answer the question once and for all:
Mark 5
12 The demons begged Jesus, “Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them.” 13 He gave them permission, and the evil spirits came out and went into the pigs.Does that one help you to understand that the “unclean spirits” ARE IN FACT the “demons” themselves? And if so, do you now understand that when Paul says angels are ministering SPIRITS, he means exactly what he says, regardless of how we today call someone who HAS a gentle spirit “a gentle spirit”.
I do not agree that Strong’s goes to prove your point simply because one is under the power of the evil spirit {character attribute) when you give in to it . The demon lives one through the evil spirit (character attribute).
“The” dwell in” is where you seem to have the trouble with understanding my point as both the evil spirit dwell and the demon dwell in the victim though the later dwells through former. The demon departs or is driven out when the victim is freed from the evil spirit (character attribute). So Jesus freed the man under the control of a legion of demons by driving a corrupt spirit out of him as well as the demons dwelling through it. He then sent those demons sent those demons to control a herd of pigs. Think of an evil spirit in relation to a demon as the spirit of God is to God.
This reminds me when Jesus taught that he would set men free of slavery to sin if they believed in him.
Please look at Mathew 8:16 and note Jesus did two things to free these victims of demon control. The first which is to drive out the spirits which you addressed but the second was he “healed all the sick.”. This control is similar to the control Satan was given over Job in order to sicken him and test his heart. What does that teach us?
I am not sure we can solve the mystery we are addressing relying on words alone as words are flexible and therefore fit many uses.
Quote Plus, we KNOW that flesh cannot enter heaven, right? A few points:
1) I do not see the implied “all” you read into that sentence.
2)The scripture you refer to does not say “enter” it states “inherit”
3)Another scripture makes it clear Paul does not know if a man while yet in his natural body entered heaven in that body or not. Since God declares it could happen in one place then why would he deny it could happen in another?
4)The word is not “heaven” it is “kingdom of God” and even the new earth is part of the kingdom of God.Quote 1 Corinthians 15 (King James Version (KJV)) 50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 21 2011,12:06) Wow, what a busy thread today! 
Pierre: Good line of reasoning and great responses in your discussion with Ed. Keep it up, brother.
Ed: Istari and Kar used to claim what you did – that ONLY Jesus has a body in heaven. I'll ask you what I asked them: Does it seem logical to you that the person God placed as RULER over heaven and earth would have a constraining body
while the ones he rules over do not? Does it make sense that the angels are free to be “everywhere all the time” while their RULER is less free than them, and is always stuck in a constraining body?Kerwin: Your Strong's definition only goes to prove MY point: If the Greek word refers to someone possessed BY a demon, then the evil spirit that person is possessed by IS a demon. But this one should answer the question once and for all:
Mark 5
12 The demons begged Jesus, “Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them.” 13 He gave them permission, and the evil spirits came out and went into the pigs.Does that one help you to understand that the “unclean spirits” ARE IN FACT the “demons” themselves? And if so, do you now understand that when Paul says angels are ministering SPIRITS, he means exactly what he says, regardless of how we today call someone who HAS a gentle spirit “a gentle spirit”.
As far as your discussion with Pierre, I agree with you that Jesus was raised from the dead in a flesh and bone body. There was a purpose behind this, as Jesus needed to stay on earth for 40 days before ascending to heaven. None of the others who have been, or will be, raised to life in heaven need(ed) to be raised in a flesh and bone body first, for they have no mission left on earth like Jesus did. Those elect are who Paul is speaking to and about in 1 Cor 15. Those are the ones who will die in a natural body to be raised in a spiritual body, like those of heaven have. They have no need to be raised as flesh and bone first, like Jesus. He was the exception to the rule, for he alone still had work to finish on earth before ascending. The others don't. Plus, we KNOW that flesh cannot enter heaven, right?
As for the case of Jesus, who WAS raised in a flesh and bone body, there are only two choices that I'm aware of:
1. Jesus “shed” that body upon ascending to heaven, and now exists without a body.
2. Jesus' flesh and bone body was “transformed” upon ascension to heaven, and he now has the new, glorious body that Paul spoke of in Phil 3:21.
The latter does well in explaining why Paul was anxious to have his lowly body transformed into one like Jesus has.
The former makes it seem like Paul was anxious about a body he wouldn't even have, since “in the twinkling of an eye”, he would shed that new, glorious body in order to live in heaven. Paul says, “And we eagerly await a Savior who will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.” The former interpretation has Paul being anxious to receive a body like the one Jesus DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ANYMORE. (Or, according to Istari, a body like the one Jesus keeps on standby for times he visits earth.
) The words, “so that they will be like his glorious body” seem pretty straightforward, and have NO implication whatsoever that Paul means “the body Jesus shed, and so doesn't really even have anymore”.What Istari is doing is similar to what the Trinitarians do when they read, “yet for us there is but one God, the Father, and one Lord, Jesus Christ”. The trinni's take those very straightforward words, and illogically claim that they say the Father is both Lord and God Almighty, and Jesus is also both Lord and God Almighty.
Similarly, Istari is taking words that clearly speak of Paul wanting a body like the one Jesus now HAS, and illogically coming to the conclusion that Paul is speaking of the body Jesus ONCE HAD, but has no more. This understanding is not derived from common sense, or the ability to read words and comprehend their clear meaning. Nope, this understanding can ONLY be the product of a mind that has already been made up ahead of time, and is now willing to force fit those words into whatever illogical conclusion fits that preconceived notion. Our buddy Gene does it all the time. Gene, I would rather be a novice who forms my understanding around the scriptures than a very learned scholar who forces the scriptures to fit around his own preconceived notions. You do realize that the majority of the world's leading theology experts are Trinitarians, right?
Istari: I believe you are beyond help in this matter. I gave you five simple questions to ponder and/or answer, and instead, as usual, you chose to spout your unintelligent ramblings, proving once again what a spaz you are. Irene has more love in her little finger than you have in your entire soul. She was confused and made a mistake about the celestial bodies. She has since admitted that mistake, so for you to even bring her back into this discussion in such an underhanded manner shows that there is no limit to your deceitfulness. You also told at least three BLATANT lies about me and my understandings on this topic.
If you aren't smart enough to even understand the simple words I post, how will you ever be able to understand the scriptures? I will, as usual, leave you with a question to ponder and/or answer, although I won't hold my breath for an answer. For it is clear to all of us that you prefer spouting nastiness from your own heart than actually addressing the points we bring up that show your understanding to be flawed. But here goes anyway:
Istari, in the scripture I quoted for Kerwin above, what FORM did the demons have from the time they left the man to the time they entered the pigs? Were they “everywhere all the time” for a couple of seconds, including inside Jesus? If not, what invisible “body” kept them constrained to only the area between the man and the pigs?
Which brings me to Karmarena: Why do you assume that “things we can't see” equals “things that don't have bodies”? Why does “invisible to humans” equal “bodiless”?
peace,
mike
Mike,More clarification regarding “spiritual body”
Quote As for the case of Jesus, who WAS raised in a flesh and bone body, there are only two choices that I'm aware of: 1. Jesus “shed” that body upon ascending to heaven, and now exists without a body.
2. Jesus' flesh and bone body was “transformed” upon ascension to heaven, and he now has the new, glorious body that Paul spoke of in Phil 3:21.
The latter does well in explaining why Paul was anxious to have his lowly body transformed into one like Jesus has.
Jesus “shed” that body upon ascending to heaven, and now exists without a body.
No,with every respect to your concept:
Jesus has a unique spiritual body which can be materialize any time as He wishes, or when ever it needs be: Jesus,and this is truth can be in the middle, of us as a human ordinary being without being recognized. I believe He is,since he himself said in
Matthew: 28:19:20,10 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
This is clear enough in John 10: 9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture
Got it :go in and out, and find pasture.He is definitely referring for that kind of spiritual glorious body which could be visible and invisible in flesh,spiritual flesh. the only way to be called glorious since He acquired all qualities within a human body but not in blood:find pasture
When He resurrected, no one was able to recognize Him. This is purposely done to confirm that His body is completely transformed and He own a glorious body,and to recognize Him he himself made His apostles to be able to,
He also prevented Magdalene to touch him because He was only an hour from resurrection, and had to go to His Father with that particular glorious body, but afterwards,He purposely allowed Thomas to touch Him which means He was again in His common human body.
Regarding us ,we will be like Jesus but on the last day of the Lord ,when Jesus will pass that glorious body onto the Father in order to be come all in all.
Jesus body will be represented in all the creatures He himself created through the Father with the power of the Holy spirit.
All through Him, all in Him all for Him, Rev:22
Peace and Love in Our Lord Jesus Christ
Hi Rena,
Quote There's one person you forget to mention. Who could that person be I wonder? Hmmm. Who was it who went off to find another forum to post on – because you and Ed were here – and weren't banned when they thought you should be. And who missed that person – and did anything to get them back posting – therefore tiling and banning you? You never saw that did you? What does this mean?
Quote ED, when I say something, could you please not quote me and make the writing so big. It's annoying. Keep it at normal size. Thank you. I will try not to annoy you.
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 21 2011,12:06) Wow, what a busy thread today!
Pierre: Good line of reasoning and great responses in your discussion with Ed. Keep it up, brother.Ed: Istari and Kar used to claim what you did – that ONLY Jesus has a body in heaven. I'll ask you what I asked them: Does it seem logical to you that the person God placed as RULER over heaven and earth would have a constraining body while the ones he rules over do not? Does it make sense that the angels are free to be “everywhere all the time” while their RULER is less free than them, and is always stuck in a constraining body?
peace,
mike
Hi Mike,It looked to me like Pierre's last post to me seemed to stall; but I welcome more questions.
How would you consider Jesus resurrected body to be constraining?
What would make you think that the Angels (according to Mike) are free to be “everywhere all the time”?
Your last point is moot, unless of course you answer my two questions.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 21 2011,12:06) As far as your discussion with Pierre, I agree with you that Jesus was raised from the dead in a flesh and bone body. There was a purpose behind this, as Jesus needed to stay on earth for 40 days before ascending to heaven. None of the others who have been, or will be, raised to life in heaven need(ed) to be raised in a flesh and bone body first, for they have no mission left on earth like Jesus did. Those elect are who Paul is speaking to and about in 1 Cor 15. Those are the ones who will die in a natural body to be raised in a spiritual body, like those of heaven have. They have no need to be raised as flesh and bone first, like Jesus. He was the exception to the rule, for he alone still had work to finish on earth before ascending. The others don't. Plus, we KNOW that flesh cannot enter heaven, right?
Hi Mike,Would it be fair to say that you do not believe our resurrected bodies
will be the same as (as in similar) the one Jesus had while he was
on Earth for the 40 days prior to his ascension recorded in Acts?Have you considered that this verse might be associated with this idea?
1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you,
that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship
is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 21 2011,18:00) Quote ED, when I say something, could you please not quote me and make the writing so big. It's annoying. Keep it at normal size. Thank you. I will try not to annoy you.
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed, it's just the making the quote really big. It look's like I'm shouting it but I wasn't. I would appretiate it – just to keep it normal size.Thanks Ed.
Quote (Rena @ June 21 2011,17:29) Quote (Ed J @ June 21 2011,18:00) Quote ED, when I say something, could you please not quote me and make the writing so big. It's annoying. Keep it at normal size. Thank you. I will try not to annoy you.
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed, it's just the making the quote really big. It look's like I'm shouting it but I wasn't. I would appretiate it – just to keep it normal size.Thanks Ed.
Hi Rena,The point I was making was not for you,
sorry if it annoyed you. (1Peter 4:16)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHa ha ha … Mike swings again… There is no stopping this guy…
So, after 300 pages Mikeboll finally makes a summary of his belief using the extracts from every posts made in this thread… Wonderful – the man is just wonderful… And sad!!
He still cannot reconcile how Jesus entered heaven in a body of flesh and bone when Jesus himself said it cannot be…
Mike tries to get round this by (Using a quirk of my analogy) saying that jesus' body was TRANSFORMED… yet SCRIPTURES tells us absolutely that the body is TRANSFORMED upon being RAISED FROM THE DEAD – not 40 days later…
Mike, this is reporter Istari for HN-News Live: what do you say about that?
'Hisss….'
oh, sorry, i see you are still naked in your dank hole!! Perhaps we'll come back to you later then when you got your skin back on and finished oiling yourself!Mikeboll says (Without qualifying his statement): “Jesus needed to be in a flesh and bone body. There was a purpose for this”
He stops dead at this point – why? What was the purpose… Oh, is this one of the 'famous Mike-isms': 'I got something real good to post to ya but I won't until you answer my BOLDED POINT' – then seeing that no one ever does – he never exposes his 'great revelation' his 'killer point'.
And guess what – it never matters!!! So what was so 'killer' about what he never said?
And why keep it if it's so good?
Paah…!!Why would there be a need for a BODY in heaven when the a body is restricting…
Spirit is free – body is restricting.
Seeing that every Soul has a Spirit – why not just set the Spirit of man, held by God, free!
Oh, I know: The SPIRIT of Man has no BODY while it is with God.
So God must raise up a body for it – the same body (Read: Shape, Style, nature – but pure, uncorrupted, incorruptible) as the person WAS in when they died:
If they were short – they will remain short
If they were fat – they will remain fat
If they were pockmarked – they will remain pockmarkedNah.. If the BLEMISH, If the fault of the body was due to corruption, then it will be removed.
Being short – is not a blemish or fault
Being tall – is not a blemish or fault
(neither unless abnormally so, of course)So the pure body will be cleansed from all disportionate corruption.
Hence many people will not initially recognise one another: the paraplegic will walk – who is that person: oh yes, it's Tom – remember…
The racially disfigured will be re-faced – I never knew you looked so good…Hence, when the disciples first saw Jesus they could not recognise him in his SPIRITUAL BODY…so he RETAINED the holes in his TRANSFORMED SPIRITUAL BODY to PROVE it was indeed Himself.
Mikeboll, is his SNEAKY UNDERHANDED style of speaking is drawing closer to truth by SLOWLY MELDING TRUTH into his posts while pretending to be DENYING what others say…
Check out his posts from the beginning and what he says now.
Glory be that he is coming into TRUTH. But boy, is he hard work…
And who will vilify me?
Have I not said, 'Mikeboll, come into the penfold of truth and we will welcome you with open arms and much joy'
So who claims against me…and is mikeboll64 not MEANDERING towards the truth…
Can you see the Prodigal Son trying to find a way to sneak back into his father's house pretending that he NEVER LEFT – he'd just gone for a LONG WALK and gotten lost…Father, where is that fatted calf!!
edj
Quote Hi Mike, It looked to me like Pierre's last post to me seemed to stall; but I welcome more questions.
you missed, page 316if number 2 is right then #3 must be also right
4)my point is when you are created you are ,there right ,and now because you are there you have your own personal structure (in men case Flesh,in spirit beings spirit form or body whatever )
5)I am not talking about the same element but different creation,like bugs,birds,fish,men,the sun,planets,angels,grass,trees,light,fire,black holes,gases,water,plankton,microbes,viruses,bacteria,flees,insects,ect………list to long
those have different structures between them but are very similar between themselves(all corvettes are made in Fiberglas right,and the rest is steel;right but in shape they are partly different or if they would be totally different they would be no longer be corvettes right)6) so variation in one kind is not a change in structure right ?
understand?
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ June 22 2011,05:50) edj Quote Hi Mike, It looked to me like Pierre's last post to me seemed to stall; but I welcome more questions.
you missed, page 316if number 2 is right then #3 must be also right
4)my point is when you are created you are ,there right ,and now because you are there you have your own personal structure (in men case Flesh,in spirit beings spirit form or body whatever )
5)I am not talking about the same element but different creation,like bugs,birds,fish,men,the sun,planets,angels,grass,trees,light,fire,black holes,gases,water,plankton,microbes,viruses,bacteria,flees,insects,ect………list to long
those have different structures between them but are very similar between themselves(all corvettes are made in Fiberglas right,and the rest is steel;right but in shape they are partly different or if they would be totally different they would be no longer be corvettes right)6) so variation in one kind is not a change in structure right ?
understand?
Pierre
Hi Pierre,Nothing new here, that's what you said before.
I did understand what you said the first time.
What are “YOU” trying to convince “me” of?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 22 2011,13:06) Quote (terraricca @ June 22 2011,05:50) edj Quote Hi Mike, It looked to me like Pierre's last post to me seemed to stall; but I welcome more questions.
you missed, page 316if number 2 is right then #3 must be also right
4)my point is when you are created you are ,there right ,and now because you are there you have your own personal structure (in men case Flesh,in spirit beings spirit form or body whatever )
5)I am not talking about the same element but different creation,like bugs,birds,fish,men,the sun,planets,angels,grass,trees,light,fire,black holes,gases,water,plankton,microbes,viruses,bacteria,flees,insects,ect………list to long
those have different structures between them but are very similar between themselves(all corvettes are made in Fiberglas right,and the rest is steel;right but in shape they are partly different or if they would be totally different they would be no longer be corvettes right)6) so variation in one kind is not a change in structure right ?
understand?
Pierre
Hi Pierre,Nothing new here, that's what you said before.
I did understand what you said the first time.
What are “YOU” trying to convince “me” of?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edj i would not be wise to try to convinced you of anything,
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ June 21 2011,14:33) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 21 2011,20:17) Quote (terraricca @ June 20 2011,19:44) 3)spirits = are heavenly being and some are called angels.
Hi Pierre,A demon is nothing more than an angel who chose NOT to follow God. Like angels, demons ARE spirits, which means “a spirit being”.
Kar, I agree with Pierre that love is not created, but part of many things that are on loan to us through the spirit of God which animates us.
Mikethis is what I understand;
there are two places who are with evil spirit that is the heaven and the earth
Satan and his angels are fighting in the heaven and the powers of the earth,(Daniel)
the demon are like i say the souls of the offspring of the angels who materialize and went with the daughters of men, and after the flood the angels went back to heaven but the nephilim half men and half angel had no place to go,when men dies his spirit /soul is going back to God,but they were not men nor angel so they were stuck around the earth and stayed with men,and some looking for people willing to take them in, they are impure souls or spirit ,born from a corrupt and rebellious relationship,
and remember Jesus remove those demons out of the people that came to him,were the demon went after they have been removed is anyone guess,because Christ did not destroyed them,I believe they still here with us on the earth,that it is why there could not be peace on earth until Christ comes back and destroy them,,
Satan and all his followersPierre
Pierre,Quote there are two places who are with evil spirit that is the heaven and the earth Satan and his angels are fighting in the heaven and the powers of the earth,
No No Pierre, All that is over and done with.
Jesus is in command now.
Rev:12:7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Satan , demons, devils and all other evil spirits,are all within our world .That's where Jesus allowed them to have fun,but I guarantee, that they will be very disappointed at the end regarding human souls.
Luke 23:27And following Him was a large crowd of the people, and of women who were mourning and lamenting Him. 28But Jesus turning to them said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, stop weeping for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29“For behold, the days are coming when they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.’ 30“Then they will begin TO SAY TO THE MOUNTAINS, ‘FALL ON US,’ AND TO THE HILLS, ‘COVER US.’ 31“For if they do these things when the tree is green, what will happen when it is dry?”
reflect on this:
In what should the omnipotence of God be extolled, if He could not contain Himself within Himself whatever He is, so that He is only felt and seen as is most suitable for the time, place and person?? For since the creation of Heaven and earth He has worked for the redemption of all, more by the wisdom of His benignity than by the power of His Majesty. And this benignity of wisdom shines most in His tolerance towards the imperfect, leading them, even by their own free will, into the way of perfection.
Peace and Love in our Lord Jesus Christ
Do Spirits have bodies?
How about God?
Does the Holy Spirit have a body?
Mike tried to use the Holy Spirit alighting on Jesus in Bodily Form as a Proof until it was pointed out that 'In Bodily Form' meant that it was NOT NORMALLY SO… it was normally in NONE BODY FORM until it came into the PHYSICAL WORLD.
Also, if the Holy Spirit is in a Body – what FORM is that Body (Don't hold your breathe – you won't get an answer because there IS NO ANSWER… !)
So also, what is the FORM of the Spirit : What is it's Body?
If a Spirit is a Body then what is IN THAT BODY – and does that which is IN THAT SPIRIT BODY also have a body…?
Then Mike, you argue against Gene who says that a Spirit is what is IN A BODY – yet YOU SAY that a Spirit HAS a Body… Therefore, for you, this AGREES WITH GENE: That the SPIRIT IS IN A BODY…!!!
Can everyone see this: all this time Mike has been telling Gene that he has no idea what he is taking about (p.s. Did you notice the ambiguity in that last sentence: read it again carefully!! Tip: which 'He' belongs to whom?)
And yet, Mike IS ACTUALLY saying EXACTLY what Gene is saying….
Gene says 'a Spirit is what is IN a Body…'
Mike says 'rubbish, a Spirit has a Body – the Spirit is IN a Body!'Istari says 'A Spirit does not have a Body – the Spirit of Man occupies a BODY of Flesh and Blood to animate it but is only active while it is in that Body. Take the Spirit of Man out of the Body and that Body dies – decays back to dust because the Spirit is not “maintaining” it – and the BODY “sustains” the Spirit – if the BODY goes into decline and decay then the SPIRIT leaves the BODY and returns to God (Death – from the point of view of Man).
The Spirit that is 'Angel' in the Spirit realm is a Free Spirit that does not require a Body – it is sustained directly by the Spirit of God – the HOLY SPIRIT, the Spirit of Truth. There is no BODY to 'Maintain' – there is no BODY required to 'sustain' the Spirit.When the Angel Spirit enters the Physical world it needs to bring itself into one place – for the physical world is a place of contiguous movement… (Mike should understand this..) ONE STEP AT A TIME… this is OBVIOUS – movement is ONE SINGLE CONTIGUOUS STEP IN ANY ONE MOMENT OF TIME. Can anyone deny this??
In the Spirit realm there is no BODY, Physical matter, to restrain any movement… any position, Any state, any place, EVERY PLACE … is accessible at ANY moment in time… In effect, the Spirit is EVERYWHERE!! where can the Spirit NOT BE with respect to places in the physical world? Nowhere…If God is to completely manage his world there can be no place and no time that he is not aware of EVERYTHING and EVERYONE – yet Mikeboll thinks he can hide from God – because he thinks that God is only in ONE PLACE… sitting in a chair in heaven (Like Heaven is a separate room – mike has been watching too many GREEK MYTHS STORIES)
For goodness sake, even in our childish Computer Systems, the Central Processor KNOWS about EVERYTHING happening within that system (Actually, reduce that to just VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING!)
So if WE can design such systems and we are imperfect – then what of Almighty God?
Angels cannot be restricted by BODIES – they have to be FREE to penetrate every place – every mind – every state of the physical world to report to God – the Angels are the Emissions of the Power of God – made from his Spirit and directed to the larger extent by his Spirit.
Man is different: God made man to autonomous – not controlled like the Angels.
He does not allow the Spirit of Man to escape the body and taste the freedom of the Angels else radical problems would ensue – like an uncontrolled child in a toy/sweet shop!
Only the SPIRITUALLY PURE MAN who knows no Sin and is righteous, can be allowed to taste the freedom of Spirit without the Body… So this is what Jesus is the PROTOTYPE of: the New Man, the SPIRITUAL MAN, who can put off his Flesh Body and enter the freedom of the Spirit realm and that body does not DIE or Decay for it is INCORRUPTIBLE when the Spirit leaves it.
Double Whammy:
the Spirit can leave the body and the body dies not decay.
The Body cannot decay therefore always sustains the Spirit when in it.Currently, the Angels can create TEMPORARY NONDESCRIPT BODIES only when allowed by God (Has anyone ever reported a Demon Angel in bodily form? No!!)
Why do Angels in bodily manifestations always dressed in PURE WHITE apparel and shimmering and indistinguishable one from another?
Jesus, however, has a RECOGNISEABLE BODY – even if it were not so immediately – but even so he has his Proof by the holes in his hands, feet and side… God could easily have removed them…Charles
Quote Pierre, Quote
there are two places who are with evil spirit that is the heaven and the earthSatan and his angels are fighting in the heaven and the powers of the earth,
No No Pierre, All that is over and done with
you are right so hem I ,the heaven around the earth not the heaven in front of the throne of God ,like in the book of Job,
so we understand each other that is good,
Quote Luke 23:27And following Him was a large crowd of the people, and of women who were mourning and lamenting Him. 28But Jesus turning to them said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, stop weeping for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29“For behold, the days are coming when they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.’ 30“Then they will begin TO SAY TO THE MOUNTAINS, ‘FALL ON US,’ AND TO THE HILLS, ‘COVER US.’ 31“For if they do these things when the tree is green, what will happen when it is dry?” this verses apply to Israel like 70 AD
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ June 22 2011,06:26) Quote (Ed J @ June 22 2011,13:06) Quote (terraricca @ June 22 2011,05:50) edj Quote Hi Mike, It looked to me like Pierre's last post to me seemed to stall; but I welcome more questions.
you missed, page 316if number 2 is right then #3 must be also right
4)my point is when you are created you are ,there right ,and now because you are there you have your own personal structure (in men case Flesh,in spirit beings spirit form or body whatever )
5)I am not talking about the same element but different creation,like bugs,birds,fish,men,the sun,planets,angels,grass,trees,light,fire,black holes,gases,water,plankton,microbes,viruses,bacteria,flees,insects,ect………list to long
those have different structures between them but are very similar between themselves(all corvettes are made in Fiberglas right,and the rest is steel;right but in shape they are partly different or if they would be totally different they would be no longer be corvettes right)6) so variation in one kind is not a change in structure right ?
understand?
Pierre
Hi Pierre,Nothing new here, that's what you said before.
I did understand what you said the first time.
What are “YOU” trying to convince “me” of?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edj i would not be wise to try to convinced you of anything,
Pierre
Hi Pierre,Ha ha ha ha ha.
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (kerwin @ June 20 2011,23:32) “The” dwell in” is where you seem to have the trouble with understanding my point as both the evil spirit dwell and the demon dwell in the victim though the later dwells through former. The demon departs or is driven out when the victim is freed from the evil spirit (character attribute).
Hi Kerwin,Read the last scripture I gave you again…………..the demons ARE the evil spirits that Jesus expelled. It cannot be any clearer from the words used. If you want to ADD implications into the scripture that aren't there, that's up to you.
I'm done with this discussion because I have showed you the perfect scripture that says the DEMONS asked Jesus to let them go into the pigs, and Jesus, GRANTING THEIR REQUEST, sent the EVIL SPIRITS into the pigs. There is not one single thing in that wording that would imply the evil spirits and the demons were different things.
When people start to make comments like “it's going to take more than the scriptural words to figure this one out”, it's time for me to bail. Those scriptural words are ALL we have to go on, and the scriptural words I showed you are clear, concise, and free from the added implications you claim.
peace,
mikeQuote (kerwin @ June 20 2011,23:32) A few points: 1) I do not see the implied “all” you read into that sentence.
2) The scripture you refer to does not say “enter” it states “inherit”
3) Another scripture makes it clear Paul does not know if a man while yet in his natural body entered heaven in that body or not. Since God declares it could happen in one place then why would he deny it could happen in another?
4) The word is not “heaven” it is “kingdom of God” and even the new earth is part of the kingdom of God.
Hi Kerwin,This is for another thread. I've been wanting to start one about whether Jesus is still a “MAN” in heaven, and maybe these questions could be addressed there.
peace,
mike
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