Do spirits have bodies?

[Rena]

First it was 'begotten' then 'procreation' now 'spirit's and bodies'.
The first two obsesssions Kathi started and then this one?
Speaking of things you know nothing about.

There is a warning

Jude 1:8

Yet in the same way, these also in their dreaming defile the flesh, despise authority, and slander celestial beings.  But Michael, the archangel, when contending with the devil and arguing about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him an abusive condemnation, but said, “May the Lord rebuke you!”  But these speak evil of whatever things they don't know. What they understand naturally, like the creatures without reason, they are destroyed in these things.  Woe to them! For they went in the way of Cain, and ran riotously in the error of Balaam for hire, and perished in Korah's rebellion.  These are hidden rocky reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you, shepherds who without fear feed themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn leaves without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;  wild waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the blackness of darkness has been reserved forever.
About these also Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his holy ones, to execute judgment on all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their works of ungodliness which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”  These are murmurers and complainers, walking after their lusts (and their mouth speaks proud things), showing respect of persons to gain advantage.

And it's also writen about in the same way in Peter.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Istari @ June 18 2011,18:05)

And Mike, is it not the MAJORITY who are destined for Pergatory?

What is “pergatory”?  Like most of your teachings, “pergatory” is an unscriptural, man-made idea.

Quote (Istari @ June 18 2011,18:05)

You realise that you have no where to go to so you are weaselling out.

On the contrary, it is YOU who has “weaseled out” since this thread was started – by not answering direct questions.  

Same as you “weaseled out” of our debate.  

Just like you are now “weaselling out” by not showing a scripture that says Jesus “SHED” his body – or acknowledging that there is none.

I have repeatedly told you HOW I came to the conclusion that Jesus' body was transformed upon ascension to heaven.  My conjecture is backed up by other scriptural references to bodies being “transformed” or “changed”; and also by scriptural explanations that the spiritual bodies those of heaven possess are different than the natural bodies those of earth possess.

What scriptures back up YOUR understanding that Jesus just “shed” his body altogether?  Like I said, the ball is in YOUR court, jester.

Quote (Istari @ June 18 2011,18:05)

Jesus Christ answers: 'A Spirit does not have flesh and bone AS I HAVE'

Istari, let's end your confusion about this once and for all, okay?

Istari, do you realize that ALL BODIES ARE NOT MADE OF FLESH?  YES or NO?

If you do, then stop using the “flesh and bone” thing as if it supports anything you're claiming. Any idiot can realize that Jesus saying a spirit does not have flesh is NOT the same as Jesus saying a spirit does not have a BODY.  

[Istari]

Rena,
When Jesus was 'in the air' was he in Spirit or in body?

Also, when the dead are raised, or the living transformed, what form will they be in?
Does Scriotures say that they will be transformed into Spirits?
Spirits with bodies? Where?

Also, are ALL who are raised from the dead going to be 'Heavenly Bodies'?

And what does 'Heavenly Bodies' mean seeing that Paul speaks of 'Heavenly Bodies' as 'Sun, Moon and Stars' – CELESTIAL BODIES! Radiant and not decaying…

No, Rena, do not be deflected by Mikeboll who misinterprets 'Heavenly' as meaning 'From Heaven' (See the Scripture verse that says 'The Man FROM HEAVEN' – which MAN came from Heaven?)

Mike is thrashing every scripture verse he can find hoping to find some way to penetrate truth – and has failed in every attempt.

Mike asks about Paul's citizenship in heaven hoping to win a point but when inanswer him he IGNORES the answer and keeps asking accusing me of not answering – three times over I answered him and FOUR TIMES he accused me of not answering!!

Now Mike is even saying that 'Flesh and blood/Bone' does not make a body – can anyone believe this guy?
He says that they can't be a body because Sun, Moon and Stars are also bodies…
Does Mike have a comprehension problem (Yes – very much so!)
Stars are Heavenly Bodies
The Moon is a Heavenly Body
The Sun is a Heavenly Body

How many times has BODY been defined: CONSTRAINED material MATTER.
Flesh and bone and blood are constrained material matter
Everything in the physical world is made of MATERIAL MATTER.
Man in his BODY of Flesh and Blood is made of material matter.
The Sun is made of material matter
The moon is made of material matter
The Stars are made of material matter
Material Matter is what bodies are made of

Paul says, in 1 Corinthians 15: 'God gives each a body just as he pleases'
And, 'But the glory of each is not the same'
There is the glory of the earthly body – and there is the glory of the heavenly body.
Animals, Birds, Fish, Man are one sort – Sun, Moon and Stars, are another.
There is the Earthly Body – and there is the Heavenly Body.
There is the Natural Body – and there is the Spiritual Body.
The natural is sown in corruption – the Spiritual is raised in incorruption.
Jesus died as a Sinner – Jesus was raised in Righteousness
Jesus died in a tortured body – Jesus was raised in a glorious body
That body was the same he died in but Transformed into a Righteous Spiritual body.
Jesus showed the Disciples that Glorious Body still containing the holes in his Palms, Feet and side.

[Rena]

Istari,

I warned you both – and Kathi and others ages ago, but nobody took heed – only KJ did. And I had prayed for the words and was given them that you were all perverting the words of God with the Begotten thread. And now I know.

The witness of JESUS is the spirit of PROPHECY.

[Rena]

How many of you post in the prophecy threads?

Mikeboll does occasionally, Terrarica does.

Istari? Kathi? WJ?

Having the spirit of prophecy doesn't mean you are a prophet only that you are interested and wanting to find out what it all means. And are given understanding. We are in the last days, can't you see that? It is of importance.

We cant be asleep.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Istari @ June 18 2011,18:45)

Now Mike is even saying that 'Flesh and blood/Bone' does not make a body – can anyone believe this guy?

Do you now have to tell at least one lie in every post, Istari?

WHEN did I EVER say what you claimed above? It is little wonder that many of us here cannot believe YOU anymore.

[Rena]

Watch therefore, for you don't know the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming. – Matt 25:13

[mikeboll64]

Hey Istari,

If Jesus said a car doesn't have flesh and bone, would you then conclude that a car doesn't have a body at all?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 19 2011,19:15)

Hey Istari, If Jesus said a car doesn't have flesh and bone, would you then conclude that a car doesn't have a body at all?

Mike

bump for istari

[terraricca]

Quote (Rena @ June 19 2011,18:25)

First it was 'begotten' then 'procreation' now 'spirit's and bodies'. The first two obsesssions Kathi started and then this one? Speaking of things you know nothing about. There is a warning Jude 1:8 Yet in the same way, these also in their dreaming defile the flesh, despise authority, and slander celestial beings.  But Michael, the archangel, when contending with the devil and arguing about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him an abusive condemnation, but said, “May the Lord rebuke you!”  But these speak evil of whatever things they don't know. What they understand naturally, like the creatures without reason, they are destroyed in these things.  Woe to them! For they went in the way of Cain, and ran riotously in the error of Balaam for hire, and perished in Korah's rebellion.  These are hidden rocky reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you, shepherds who without fear feed themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn leaves without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;  wild waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the blackness of darkness has been reserved forever. About these also Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his holy ones, to execute judgment on all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their works of ungodliness which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”  These are murmurers and complainers, walking after their lusts (and their mouth speaks proud things), showing respect of persons to gain advantage. And it's also writen about in the same way in Peter.

Rena

so do spirit beings have a body i mean not flesh?

Pierre

[Proclaimer]

Body is an interesting word. It has its main meaning with living beings, to mean something like a container. This usage can also be used with non-living things, e.g., a body of water.

So if Jesus is the image of God in bodily form, then he is like God in a container so to speak.

A body can also mean the mass of something. Like the sun. It is a body of something that exists in the heavens. Perhaps we can say a body of gas or energy.

The heavens means the universe. But is that different to Heaven?

Perhaps Heaven is the heaven of heavens, similar to the construct Lord of lords.

[terraricca]

Quote (t8 @ June 19 2011,20:18)

Body is an interesting word. It has its main meaning with living beings, to mean something like a container. This usage can also be used with non-living things, e.g., a body of water. So if Jesus is the image of God in bodily form, then he is like God in a container so to speak. A body can also mean the mass of something. Like the sun. It is a body of something that exists in the heavens. Perhaps we can say a body of gas or energy. The heavens means the universe. But is that different to Heaven? Perhaps Heaven is the heaven of heavens, similar to the construct Lord of lords.

T8

the word body means also a assembly of multi thing holding together like a car ,a bike, the earth ,man,women,dog,cow,whale,fish,water,air,universe,milky way,galaxy,just to name a few,

and each of those body are compost of 1000 or + other bodies but smaller sometimes microscopic and those also have a body of there own

the fact that we know it exist we then know that it has a body of some sort.right?

Pierre

[Rena]

Terrarica, everything on earth and what is visible in the sky has a form. However there's also the unseen. The spiritual realm. And I believe in this because to a tiny insect they dont know there's a heaven above and planets do they? Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, because it does. So – we see what we can see. And believe in what we can't see

Hebrews 11:1

Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, proof of things not seen.

2 Corinthians 4:18

While we don't look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

[Rena]

I urge you all to come and post instead in the prophecy section?

[terraricca]

Quote (Rena @ June 20 2011,01:18)

Terrarica, everything on earth and what is visible in the sky has a form. However there's also the unseen. The spiritual realm. And I believe in this because to a tiny insect they dont know there's a heaven above and planets do they? Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, because it does. So – we see what we can see. And believe in what we can't see Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, proof of things not seen. 2 Corinthians 4:18 While we don't look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Rena
we know angels exist ,so we know that they have a body ,what we do not know is what type of body they may have,right?

as for;
2Co 4:15 All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.
2Co 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.
2Co 4:17 For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all.
2Co 4:18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

I do not think that your interpretation of those verses is the same than Paul has.

Pierre

[Rena]

Terrarica, don't be distracted with all this.

Debating 'spirit bodies or 'procreation or 'begotten or 'trinity all just leads to confusion and distraction.

What is to be gained from it? Nothing.

Take trinity for example.

If I showed my son who is six two Apples – asked him how many Apples there are – and he correctly said two – and then I got angry and told him he was wrong – theres one apple – though there are two – I think he would get confused.

When we read the scriptures we knew. Because you have to accept it as a child.

I can't be bothered with this thread anymore. There's some things we just don't know. You have to accept it as a child IMO.

[Istari]

Mike,
Didn't you say:

Quote

Hmmm…………..I don't recall seeing the word “body” in that scripture.  Istari, I've been telling you for months that your belief that “body” EQUALS “flesh” is what is causing your confusion.  Didn't Paul speak of heavenly “bodies” such as the moon and stars?  Are these “bodies” made of “flesh”?

Let's check this out:

Quote

Hmmm…………..I don't recall seeing the word “body” in that scripture.

This pertains to “See, I am not a Spirit, for a Spirit does not have flesh and bone as I have”

Mike, you are saying (Are you saying) that “Flesh and Bone” is not a BODY?
Are you saying Jesus DID NOT SAY (Mean) “See, I am not a Spirit, for a Spirit does not have a BODY like you see I have”?
Mike, are you sane?

And further more – I gave you every definition of BODY that pertains to this aspect – yet you ignore them in your pursuit of ludicrousness: Flesh and Bone don't make a body!!!

Mike, these are YOUR WORDS – you have been caught out which is why you deny and ignore to define 'Body' – you are in Spiritual Fear (Ha! What is SPIRITUAL FEAR?)

Quote

Istari, I've been telling you for months that your belief that “body” EQUALS “flesh” is what is causing your confusion.

I have outlined my view on Flesh and Body. Mike, you have not. So which one of us is hiding?
Here again:
FLESH is MATERIAL MATTER
A BODY is MATERIAL MATTER
'FLESH' IS NOT CONSTRAINED TO Living Bodies ONLY.
Mike, does a Fruit not have FLESH?
Mike, where is the FLESH in your argument – the BODY of your argument is like the WIND – it blows EVERYWHERE – everywhere except where it should!! Your arguments are BODILESS – lacking substance – in fact, immaterial…
“Flesh: The body as distinct from the Mind” (Readers Digest Universal Dictionary)[/QUOTE]

Quote

Didn't Paul speak of heavenly “bodies” such as the moon and stars?  Are these “bodies” made of “flesh”?

Mikeboll, Mikeboll, Mikeboll… You ARE INSANE…
How can you ask: 'Are Heavenly Bodies' Bodies?

Are you asking if 'Heavenly Bodies' are Spirits? (And even if they are 'Spirits', Since YOU SAY that Spirits have bodies you therefore are also saying that SPIRITS ARE 'Bodies' therefore you DEFEAT YOUR OWN FALSE ARGUMENT!!)

Mike, I said your desparation is driving you to the depths – why not stop NOW!
when you are in a hole – stop digging!!!

And lastly (For now):
What is your purpose in the pursuit of the endless refutes… Purgatory: does it matter for the purpose of this thread that I say 'Go to Purgatory' or 'Reserved for Destruction'. It is simply a distraction ploy – So, to avoid the distraction I see you destiny to build I accept you correction (Although you didn't correct – just alluded to slight misuse of conception – same as You learnt from WJ about arguing about 'Sheol' and 'Hell', and 'God' and 'god', and T8 says 'Earth' and 'earth' and your endless arguments on 'first/born' and 'begotten' and their Greek equivalences – which is your love : the GREEK – who endlessly seek PROOF)

[Istari]

Sorry…
“Are these BODIES made of FLESH”

Mike, who said the STARS, SUN AND MOON, are made of 'Flesh' like Human FLESH.

Mike, you are SERIOUSLY IN DANGER of a visit from the 'men in white' (And these are no Angels!)

Paul states quite clearly – and I have outlined to you over and over:
'God gives each a BODY just as he pleases'
'Not all flesh is the SAME' (vs 39)
Paul then states (vs 40) 'There are ALSO CELESTIAL BODIES and TERRESTRIAL BODIES'

Mike, what is 'Celestial' and what is 'Terrestrial'?
(oh boy, right back to the beginning…!)
'But the glory of the Celestial is one, and the glory of the Teresstrial is another'

Verse 44 expounds the transformational act of being raised from the dead:
'It is sown a natural Body'
'It is raised a Spiritual Body'

In what body was Jesus raised….

And where does it say in Scriptures that Jesus' body was TRANSFORMED just before he entered Heaven…

Mike, you use this point as your CRUX point – that Jesus was Transformed just before entering Heaven… Mike, this IS YOUR PINNACLE POINT… Give it BODY, FLESH IT OUT, Mike, show me it's SUBSTANCE… (It does you no good to demand another answer you for an alternative – the point was put to you first – and on that point hangs all your (False) hope!)

[Istari]

Rena,

There is NO CONFUSION.

What ARE YOU confused about?

Are you trying to take SIDES – are you swayed by FALLACY?

Rena, BELIEVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE… form your own opinion – or back one side or other no matter what!

This is what Jesus says, “Oh, that I wish your were either HOT or COLD, for your are NEITHER hot nor Cold. You are Lukewarm and therefore I vomit you out' (Rev 3: 15-16)

Rena, there are things to be understood by SOME but not others – some need to believe by PROOF (The Thomases) and some by FAITH – Happier are those who believe by FAITH.

The dangerous persons (To themselves) are the ones who try to straddle the fine line between Proof and Faith for, for sure, confusion will reign over them.

[Istari]

Mike,

Why are you not showing the BODY OF JESUS in Heaven as described in Revelation 1:13-16.
Does it not say that he has 'Wool' for his hair – and a sharp double-edged Sword for his tongue!
In fact, it says 'His HEAD and HAIR were WHITE like Wool, as White as Snow, and his EYES were flames of Fire'… And more…

Mike, you are floundering in own detritus – nothing you are saying makes any sense – look how many theories you have gone through and yet you still attempt to make a single one stick simply because you build your ideas on one simple concept: to try and prove me wrong!!

That is your error, Mike: STOP trying to …PROVE… Me wrong…
Try to PROVE Scriptures RIGHT AND TRUE…

How are the Dead RAISED?
What BODY WAS JESUS RAISED IN?

In addition, why are you only 'proving' that JESUS has a body when the Thread topic is 'DO SPIRITS have bodies'?

If Jesus ONLY acquires a SPIRITUAL BODY when he is RAISED from the dead then HOW DO THE ANGELS get THEIR BODIES?

And does GOD have a Body?

And what of the HOLY SPIRIT?

Someone says that 'All created things' have bodies…

Was God CREATED? God is a Spirit…
Was the HOLY SPIRIT created? The Holy Spirit is a Spirit…

And if the Jesus was not created then he DID NOT HAVE A BODY… but the Angels (Who were created, did?) so When Jesus acquired his SPIRITUAL BODY, then he WAS NOT PRE-Eminent but only gained that which the MERE ANGELS already had – so much for all the Sacrifice that Jesus made – just to become what simple Messenging Spirits of God already are…

Mike, you crucify Christ over again…

Mike, you are in total confusion over what you are saying…

[Author]

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