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Quote (Istari @ June 05 2011,13:20)
So, ALL who come out of the Tribulation will have INCORRUPTIBLE SPIRITUAL BODIES…
What scripture, please?Quote (Istari @ June 05 2011,13:20)
…but only the Elect will enter heaven and have their abode there!
And as one of these elect, why do you suppose Paul was worried about his new transformed BODY? He said it would be like the one Jesus NOW HAS. Hmmmm…………..(Btw, small posts I do read. Keep up the good work.)
istari
Quote Mike, do you know what being SPIRITUAL is? Please demonstrate the use of the word and term 'Spiritual'!
What is Spiritual Warmth?
Spiritual Breathe?
Spiritual Wisdom?
Spiritual Eye?
Spiritual Prayer?
Spiritual knowledge?
What is 'The Spiritual Man'?
What is the Spiritual Church?if I explain it to you ,you would not understand it,
the same way you do not answer my question ,and try to change subject so you don't have to answer
Pierre
Hi Pierre,
Istari knows full well the two main meanings of “spiritual”, because I've posted them side by side for him before. He tries to forget the one meaning that says “belonging to a spirit” though.
Mike,
What does Paul mean when he says in 1 Corinthians 2:14~16:
“For the NATURAL MAN does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them because they are SPIRITUALLY discerned.
But he who is SPIRITUAL judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.
For 'Who has known the mind (Spiritual thoughts) of the LORD that he may instruct him' but we the mind (Spiritual thoughts) of Christ”Mike, who is the NATURAL MAN – and who is the SPIRITUAL MAN?
Are they not both HUMANKIND IN THE FLESH ON EARTH?What is then the difference between them? Is it not their MODE OF THOUGHT – their MINDSET?
And what does Paul mean in 1 Cor 3:1 by 'And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to SPIRITUAL PEOPLE but as CARNAL, as to babes in Christ.'
Does he not mean that the people were still sinful corruptible : non-spiritual?
And verse 19 says 'For the wisdom of the world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”…'
Mike, you are not Spiritually Wise for you purposefully deceive yourself as to the wisdom of God preferring the foolishness of the earthly!
Mike, how do you so unwisely, so blatantly claim that Paul is saying that God gives each a body referring to the Spirit when Paul EXPLICITLY states MATERIAL MATTER: Fish, Birds, Animals, Mankind, Sun, Moon, Stars… Where does Paul say 'Spirit'? Nowhere!!
Mike, please stop this nonsense …
Ok, amnesty… Just say you were mistaken – nothing more – but please STOP.
Use your time to better effect – to learn wisdom in God's truth – not to attempt pointlessness!Interesting:
Paul says in 1 Cor 10:4 that the Rock that followed the Israelites was CHRIST.
Is that not the same as John saying 'Only Begotten Son of God'?Was the Rock 'Christ' or 'He who would become CHRIST'
Was Jesus 'The Only Begotten' BEFORE he was BEGOTTEN or does it refer to Him who would become the Begotten.Both references pertain to Jesus AS HE IS NOW with a back-reference!
God sent the SON who would become his ONLY BEGOTTEN – and still IS HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN!
Jesus BECAME CHRIST when he was born as Man.It is not to say that the two are different persons BUT that their TITLES ARE BACKWARDLY ATTRIBUTED BEFORE THE FACT:
Present reference to a Past Event using Present tense.Quote (Istari @ June 05 2011,14:12) Mike, who is the NATURAL MAN – and who is the SPIRITUAL MAN?
Are they not both HUMANKIND IN THE FLESH ON EARTH?
Yes. So see how you've shown that you are capable of understanding ONE of the main meanings of “spiritual”?Why is it that you can ONLY understand that ONE meaning of the word, and you can't understand the meaning that says, “something belonging to a spirit”?
Btw, I'm waiting for my answer to why Paul, who knew he would be existing in heaven and not on the earth, was anxious to have his fleshly body transformed into a glorious new body like the one Jesus now has. According to you, he would have no need of a body in heaven, so why was he worrying about something he wouldn't even possess?
1 Cor 12 is not related to this discussion, but instead shows how Paul used a real human body as a metaphor for the body of Christ. He is teaching that as members OF the body of Christ, we are all important, just like a real hand is important to a real body, etc.
I'm waiting for the answer from my last post.
Mike,
You are straining at a gnat! Wisdom – if you ever had any – has deserted you!
You agree that BOTH the Carnal Man AND the SPIRITUAL Man are both humankind IN THE FLESH ON EARTH then say you were RIGHT?!!What kind of warped and twisted logic is that?
You agree because you could not DISAGREE – wow Mike, get a grip – it's not WRONG to be Wrong – it's WRONG to keep thwarting TRUTH: to keep from admitting you were wrong!!
I offered an Amnesty – take it!!
Quote (Istari @ June 05 2011,15:50) it's not WRONG to be Wrong – it's WRONG to keep thwarting TRUTH: to keep from admitting you were wrong!!
I know. That's why Pierre, Irene and I keep hoping you will just stop all this nonsense and admit you were wrong.Waiting for the answer still.
Also, how many times do you want to hear: YES, their (His) Citizenship WILL BE IN HEAVEN…
What is wrong with you??
Jesus was RAISED INTO A FLESH AND BONE BODY – he showed it to over 500 at one time and all the Disciples (1 Corinthians 13/14 or there abouts) – this is the GLORIOUS BODY THAT THEY TOO WILL BE RAISED UP IN – just like CHRIST…
But Christ went to heaven in Spirit – not in BODY – Corinthians ALSO SAYS 'Flesh and Blood' cannot enter HEAVEN – so Mike, YOU HAVE A DILEMMA…
How did Christ rise up in a Physical flesh and bone body with all the physical marks of the Cross (Why not his tortured beaten body? why ONLY THE NAIL HOLES?) then say that Flesh and bone cannot enter heaven then enter into heaven…Mike, you are crazy – stop it !!
Please can someone Pray for Mikeboll64 – please – pray for him to stop this delusion!!!
Mike, take the Amnesty pill (take the 'Green Pill')
Paul will indeed have his citizenship in heaven as one of the judges, one of the heirs to God, brother to Jesus…
And just as Jesus will return to earth (Are you denying this also, Mike, the 'In like manner to that which he they saw him leave…. Ha ha – you said 'with the clouds' … The manner Jesus left in was that he was in a physical flesh and bone body that Rose up in the air INTO A CLOUD… and so he will return in a Physicsl flesh and bone body FROM WITHIN A CLOUD… mike, could the cloud be the converging or DISPERSING OF THE PHYSICAL BODY MATTER? Jesus DISAPPEARED IN THE CLOUD.If Jesus returns to earth in a physical body – then So will the Saints. Being a citizen in heaven does not preclude coming to earth – EVEN mere ANGELS DO THAT, MIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Flesh and bone/blood cannot enter heaven – mike!!!!!!!!!!
Jesus was Flesh and bone – Jesus told Thomas so HIMSELF, Mike!!!!!!
JESUS SAID FLESH AND BLOOD/Bone cannot enter Heaven- Mike!!!!!So what did Jesus do with his Flesh and Bone body when he entered heaven, Mike!!!!!
I stated that the HIGHER DIMENSIONS cannot contain PHYSICAL MATTER… what can you not understand about that?
Jesus said flesh and bone, Scriptures says Flesh and Blood, BOTH means MATERIAL MATTER (For flesh and bone are merely composite Material matter) cannot enter heaven – can you not see That Jesus, Scriptures, and Science/Physics, are saying the SAME THING?
Where do you come from, Mikeboll64?
Mike,
Do you REALLY Want a Chapter and verse that states that those out of the tribulation will have Spiritual Bodies – no Mike, if you need a chapter and verse for that then you are TRULY NON-Spiritual – you are GREEK!
mike, mike, mike, those who are alive in Christ will live forever – surely you know that – DON'T YOU??? those that live forever are the survivors from the Tribulation, the second Resurection and the judgement… (Those from the first resurrection are already saved)
Mike, don't do this – please tell me you don't NEED AN EXPLANATION!!
Wet-nursing is not my thing – have you not noticed!!!See that Mikeboll sets himself up to be abused then cries when he is.
Mike, what can you not understand about what I write?
You are the one who drives me to have to explain so much – it is your own doing.
It is your own hardheartedness, like Pharoah, that makes you incapable of admitting that you FULLY UNDERSTAND YOUR ERROR. That's why you avoid my posts that show valid points and you ONLY FOCUS on the parts you FEEL that you can refute (To no avail, by the way!!)
By now you should be AGREEING with me but you CANNOT – you simply find some other frivolous point to 'test' – failing each time and moving to another!
How many times have you shifted positions since all this started – and I have not moved!!!
Why have I not moved – Truth is Rock – and this is the Rock of Truth – immoveable!
All you do is as of the wind and waves and skirt round the Rock trying to find a way to penetrate it but to no avail…Wear yourself out – tough man! The Truth cannot change – only the one from whom it comes may corrupt it…
Ahh… Ja… Mike,
Your beliefs are actually nearly the same if it werent for your disagreement over this spirit bodies and other such.
You should be united together not argueing.
A spirit of division has come between you both. I know the cause… mhm
Quote (Istari @ June 05 2011,16:16)
Also, how many times do you want to hear: YES, their (His) Citizenship WILL BE IN HEAVEN…
Then what use has he of a BODY, Istari?Quote (Istari @ June 05 2011,16:16)
Jesus was RAISED INTO A FLESH AND BONE BODY – this is the GLORIOUS BODY THAT THEY TOO WILL BE RAISED UP IN – just like CHRIST…
So Paul was raised from the dead in a flesh body that he put on a hanger in a closet so he has a skin to wear when he visits earth on occasion?Istari, do you realize that Jesus was raised back to life in the body he died in to prove to people like Thomas that there really IS a resurrection? Those who have followed him to heaven, like Paul, were not raised to life in their flesh body, but instead were transformed in the twinkling of an eye. Their residence is in heaven, where they exist in their glorious new bodies that are just like the one Jesus now has.
When Paul shows that he is anxious for a new glorious body like the one Jesus NOW HAS, do you seriously think he is speaking about the “body Jesus has hanging in a closet for when he visits earth”?
With the excitement of living in heaven looming in his head, do you think his thoughts are revolving around the body that will “be kept in the earth closet for earth visits”?
I think that maybe you're mistaken, and not thinking this all the way through. You say Jesus went to heaven without a body? Which new glorious body is Paul talking about Jesus now having then?
Quote (shimmer @ June 06 2011,17:26) Ahh… Ja… Mike, Your beliefs are actually nearly the same if it werent for your disagreement over this spirit bodies and other such.
You should be united together not argueing.
A spirit of division has come between you both. I know the cause… mhm
shimmerwhat is the distance between a lie and a truth??
Pierre
Quote (shimmer @ June 05 2011,17:26) Ahh… Ja… Mike, Your beliefs are actually nearly the same if it werent for your disagreement over this spirit bodies and other such.
You should be united together not argueing.
A spirit of division has come between you both. I know the cause… mhm
Hi Shimmer,Istari and I agree on every single understanding he has that is actually formed around the scriptures, as opposed to the Sci-Fi Channel or whatever.
The ONLY cause for our division on this topic is his failure to form his understanding around the scriptures. (At least that's the only cause from MY perspective.
) Two will always butt heads when only one of their arguments is scripturally supported. As I told my friend Kathi today, the farther one moves away from the scriptures, the more I'm going to drop the load of those very scriptures right on their head.
peace to you,
mikeShi
Shimmer, how can you say that we should unite : what unity is there between light and dark?
Between the man of truth and the man of desparity?The Mikeboll who seeks to WIN at all costs even though he has never won anything because of his waywardness of understanding – nay, desire to thwart truth bu underhandedness.
He KNOWS HE IS IN THE WRONG – hence his diaboloical deliberate inability to understand common English.
He IGnored the whole writing on St Paul I posted earlier even though he was SCREAMING for me to show him proof. He claimed it wad too long to read BIT HE CAN READ THE WHOLE BIBLE AND HUGE TRANSCRIPTS OF CHURCH FATHER WRITINGS as well as argue night and day with virtually every person in this forum on every single thread topic…. But he can't read a few paragrAphs that I write BECAUSE THEY DON'T SAY WHAT HE WANTS TO HEAR.
Not even JESUS CHRIST and SCRIPTURES himself can convince Mikeboll!!
'Flesh AND bone CANNOT ENTER/Inherit the Kingdom of Heaven'
'Flesh and Bone' is material matter.
Material matter is a BODY
A spirit is NOT COMPOSED OF MATERIAL MATTER ELSE what did Jesus gain by being raised up from the dead into a SPIRITUAL BODY OF SPIRIT? when according to Mikeboll, the Spirit is ALREADY A BODY… a SPIRIT BODY…The man is getting so desparate he is clinging to ANYTHING that even remotely appears like speaking of a body while sliding even further and further into destruction of his worthiness.
And, SHIMMER, you want me to AGREE WITH HIM! Agree what?
Should I rake an EMOTIONAL stance against fallacy and compromise TRUTH?Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 06 2011,10:50) Quote (Istari @ June 05 2011,16:16)
Also, how many times do you want to hear: YES, their (His) Citizenship WILL BE IN HEAVEN…
Then what use has he of a BODY, Istari?Quote (Istari @ June 05 2011,16:16)
Jesus was RAISED INTO A FLESH AND BONE BODY – this is the GLORIOUS BODY THAT THEY TOO WILL BE RAISED UP IN – just like CHRIST…
So Paul was raised from the dead in a flesh body that he put on a hanger in a closet so he has a skin to wear when he visits earth on occasion?Istari, do you realize that Jesus was raised back to life in the body he died in to prove to people like Thomas that there really IS a resurrection? Those who have followed him to heaven, like Paul, were not raised to life in their flesh body, but instead were transformed in the twinkling of an eye. Their residence is in heaven, where they exist in their glorious new bodies that are just like the one Jesus now has.
When Paul shows that he is anxious for a new glorious body like the one Jesus NOW HAS, do you seriously think he is speaking about the “body Jesus has hanging in a closet for when he visits earth”?
With the excitement of living in heaven looming in his head, do you think his thoughts are revolving around the body that will “be kept in the earth closet for earth visits”?
I think that maybe you're mistaken, and not thinking this all the way through. You say Jesus went to heaven without a body? Which new glorious body is Paul talking about Jesus now having then?
It appears Mikeboll has a BLIND SPOT for TRUTH.He claims that no one has answered his question because his blind spot kicks in when he sees the answer and it's not what he likes.
He asks 'So what need do they have for a Body'?
Ha ha ha … You see why Mikeboll gets abused!!!Why was Jesus IN A FLESH AND BONE BODY, Mike?
To PROVE THE RESURRECTION WAS IF THE BODY…, Mike… I thought you knew Scriptures…
Mike, how are you arguing about Scripture BASICS when you do not KNOW THEM?
Mike, WHAT HAPPENED TO JESUS' BODY…?
Was his body made into a SPIRIT BODY?What did Jesus SAY TO THOMAS, MIKE?
So, if Jesus was RAISED INTO A GLORIOUS BODY then so will PAUL…
if Jesus went up to Heaven – then so will Paul (of The Elect)
Will they have BODIES IN HEAVEN – No – why? Because a body of material matter cannot enter Heaven.
This is not only SCRIPTURAL BUT ALSO PHYSICS…
Saying I am talking Sci-Fi is to deny reality BECAUSE IT COMFOUNDS the ignorant!Science SUPPORTS the Gospel – not refutes it – it is only the individuals who use Science AGAINST SCRIPTURES because they want to make it their God.
Showing the Science of Dimensions is not going against Scriptures – it is PROVING SCRIPTURES – the fifth Dimension CANNOT CONTAIN PHYSICAL MATTER…
Mike, you cannot poo-poo what you dont understand!!
JA – Mike.
Ephesians 4:1-16.
Therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, entreat you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called,
with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing forbearance to one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift. Therefore it says, “When He ascended on high, He led captive a host of captives, And He gave gifts to men.” Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.
And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fulness of Christ. As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves, and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him, who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by that which every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.
Goodnight!
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