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Hey Terra,
Can you post me the answer – I don't read every post.I know the answer is a non-Answer and the thread was set to be closed but it seems the converse continues so I just ask some PLAIN AND OBVIOUS QUESTIONS that are either answered with an honest 'I don't know' or a dishonest answer of 'guess – guess'
There is not one single verse that states ANYTHING about Bodies in heaven EXCEPT TO SAY THAT THERE ARE NONE (Flesh… Any kind of flesh and blood or bone CANNOT INHERIT THE HEAVENLY SPRITUAL SPIRIT REALM)
So my question is for those who STILL SAY 'Spirit body' or 'Spiritual Body' meaning to say 'Spirit Body' but not realising that 'Sliritual Body' and 'Spirit Body' are NOT the same things…
An additional question would be : WHY? why do they need to think that an IMMATERIAL ENTITY has a MATERIAL FORM… surely that is an oxymoron or a synergy of their own making?
Scriptures cannot support them – so what is their aim in thinking that way…?
(because they think in the flesh so can only see in the flesh – man with a body was made after the spirit – the Spirit OCCUPIES A BODY – the FLUID SPIRIT fills a body.. Like an essence fills a vessel… Does essence have a body?
NO – Spirit does not have a body. End of this thread!
Ok, done then! (again)
Quote (Istari @ April 28 2011,16:44) Hey Terra,
Can you post me the answer – I don't read every post.I know the answer is a non-Answer and the thread was set to be closed but it seems the converse continues so I just ask some PLAIN AND OBVIOUS QUESTIONS that are either answered with an honest 'I don't know' or a dishonest answer of 'guess – guess'
There is not one single verse that states ANYTHING about Bodies in heaven EXCEPT TO SAY THAT THERE ARE NONE (Flesh… Any kind of flesh and blood or bone CANNOT INHERIT THE HEAVENLY SPRITUAL SPIRIT REALM)
So my question is for those who STILL SAY 'Spirit body' or 'Spiritual Body' meaning to say 'Spirit Body' but not realising that 'Sliritual Body' and 'Spirit Body' are NOT the same things…
An additional question would be : WHY? why do they need to think that an IMMATERIAL ENTITY has a MATERIAL FORM… surely that is an oxymoron or a synergy of their own making?
Scriptures cannot support them – so what is their aim in thinking that way…?
(because they think in the flesh so can only see in the flesh – man with a body was made after the spirit – the Spirit OCCUPIES A BODY – the FLUID SPIRIT fills a body.. Like an essence fills a vessel… Does essence have a body?
NO – Spirit does not have a body. End of this thread!
Ok, done then! (again)
istariit is your opinion so that is what it is, the horse is dead it does not move it is no longer useful to kick it it will be food for the future.
Pierre
Food for the future – it was never ever raised in the past by ANYONE else.
It was because Mikeboll likes to contest everything I say that the issue was ever raised.Search – search – search … Search everywhere and you will find nothing that says there are Bodies of Angels, spirits with bodies in heaven…. Not one word!
Only in this forum from Mikeboll… Initially!
So why has this never ever been raised before – why has no one ever said that there are Spirits with bodies when the very WORD 'Spirit' means 'Immaterial'…
Terra, could it be because only 'certain' people in this forum are MOVED to say that for their own reasons – not because Scriptures says so?
What is the nature of an immaterial body?
What is an immaterial body made of – immaterial material?Ha Ha – Emperor's clothes!!
Quote (Istari @ April 28 2011,17:05) Food for the future – it was never ever raised in the past by ANYONE else.
It was because Mikeboll likes to contest everything I say that the issue was ever raised.Search – search – search … Search everywhere and you will find nothing that says there are Bodies of Angels, spirits with bodies in heaven…. Not one word!
Only in this forum from Mikeboll… Initially!
So why has this never ever been raised before – why has no one ever said that there are Spirits with bodies when the very WORD 'Spirit' means 'Immaterial'…
Terra, could it be because only 'certain' people in this forum are MOVED to say that for their own reasons – not because Scriptures says so?
What is the nature of an immaterial body?
What is an immaterial body made of – immaterial material?Ha Ha – Emperor's clothes!!
istarifind me one thing that exist and that has no body or boundry?
Pierre
Quote (Istari @ April 28 2011,17:48) Spirit. God.
istariyou have given me two answers is that true ;
spirit ; and God right ?
please confirm
Pierre
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 27 2011,20:34) Kerwin………… I believe No Physical flesh and blood Being of any kind (BY IT SELF) Can inherit anything. That would be like saying the House can inherit a man, that is not possible, neither does a physical any thing inherit a Spiritual thing. The spirit (IN) and through SPIRIT inherits the Spiritual things of GOD. A man is a LIVING SOUL, and through the Spirit (IN) him he can inherit . Because of the Spirit (IN) HIM, rather he is Flesh and Blood or Flesh and Bone as Jesus was. He being clothed with a body can inherit anything from GOD the Father. But it is not the Flesh that is inheriting it but the complete being which does include what ever he is clothed with. Jesus is flesh and Bone and will return in the same way and with what he inherited from GOD with that Body he is clothed with. Matter can not inherit anything because it is matter . Mixing Matter with Spirit Inheritance doesn't work , but to say a mans Body is not with him because He inherits something is foolish IMO> peace and love to you and your Kerwin………………………………………gene
What you state sounds correct but I am not sure it is what is being spoken of in that scripture.Terra,
You well know that 'God IS Spirit'
And His Angels are SpiritsSo the two answers are ONE
Spirits are a CLASS of Beings
And God Almighty, YHVH, is ONE Being from that ClassA single answer of 'Spirit' would not have sufficed as an answer as it would only have led to extended questions. This way the was therefore a short-circuit.
Irene,
Jesus is in the heavens but he is still striving to defeat the enemies of God’s people and his people in this world.
You wrote:
Quote Take a closer look at verse 14 Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
WE BEHELD HIS GLORY, THE GLORY OF HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN OF HIS FATHER, FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH…..
Quote John 14 8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.Jesus teaches us in John 14:8-11 that the glory of the Spirit of Christ is shown because God lives in Jesus and Jesus lives in God. That is why Jesus is called Emanuel, God with us.
Irene quoted:
Quote 1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
1Cr 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Cr 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.
1Cr 15:48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.
1Cr 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Quote Genesis 2:7 (New International Version, ©2011) 7 Then the LORD God formed a man[a] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
Paul is speaking of the creation of man as the first Adam was made from the earth and the second Adam that gave the first Adam life came from God.
Both the new heavens and the new earth will be part of the kingdom of God. 1Cr 15:49 is speaking of all that are resurrected from the dead on that day. All those who serve God are meek as those who lack humility will refuse to submit to Jesus’ reign.
You wrote:
Quote Rev. 21 tells us that God will come down from Heaven with the New Jerusalem, and will be with men. Do you think that any body that is not a Spirit Being will be able to see either Jehovah God or Jesus who is like His Father? I don't think so…. .
Quote 1 Corinthians 2 10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given usIt is the Spirit of Christ which knows the deep things of God and it is the Spirit of Christ that reveals those things. That is why Jesus taught us we should know the God by knowing Jesus. In a like way those who know the students of Jesus will know Jesus.
There is some of your post I have yet to look into and meditate on.
Note: All Scriptures from c. 2011 NIV scriptures.
Quote (Istari @ April 29 2011,02:37) Terra, You well know that 'God IS Spirit'
And His Angels are SpiritsSo the two answers are ONE
Spirits are a CLASS of Beings
And God Almighty, YHVH, is ONE Being from that ClassA single answer of 'Spirit' would not have sufficed as an answer as it would only have led to extended questions. This way the was therefore a short-circuit.
istariso you think that the spirit world has no body or boundary of there being,right ?
some say that God is in all ,so God is in the wicket one and so commits all the crimes and violence and lies ,and deceit,ect
if he is not in the wicket but only gives him live ,just as he make the rain fall on the righteous as well as the wicket ones.
so God would be at an other place no?
why is it that God call Adam in the garden ,wen Adam hide from God ,
what if God hold a big scale up and on one end there are the wicket people and in the other side the righteous ,and each time there is a wicket moving to the other end with the righteous would the scale not move ?
or the other way wen a righteous lost is faith ?it is not important what others believe the word of God ,do you,
Jer 25:8 Therefore the LORD Almighty says this: “Because you have not listened to my words,
Jer 29:19 For they have not listened to my words,” declares the LORD, “words that I sent to them again and again by my servants the prophets. And you exiles have not listened either,” declares the LORD.
Jer 35:13 “This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Go and tell the men of Judah and the people of Jerusalem, ‘Will you not learn a lesson and obey my words?’ declares the LORD.are we to be added to those Israelite that have not listen to Gods words.?
Pierre
Again ……..for the hundredth time Spirits do not have bodies they are what is in bodies. One of the biggest problem in religion is not understanding what Spirit is. Just understand that one thing can clear up so many scriptures and confusions fostered on us by Apostate Religions. Spirit is cognitive powers in our minds better know as intellects working in our minds. IMO
peace and love to you all…………………………………………….gene
Terra,
Nothing you just said means anything agsinst what I said.
You are simply fishing using metaphor. You cannot measure the weight of truth or lie on a physical measuring scale… That is called METAHPHOR… look it up!
I have heard this argument before concerning 'God being in the wicked'… What are you asking to prove?
Without God nothing can persist… So, yes, God is in even the Wicked… Absence from the power of God is destruction – none existence.
God has APPOINTED A TIME for that DESTRUCTION. So, until that time, yes, God is in even the wicked!
Go back and remind yourself what it was that Satan IS TESTING GOD on.
It is that MAN can live WITHOUT GOD.
Until that has been proved false to the mind of ALL no one can be destroyed – else why not just get rid of the father of the lie in the first place. No, he must remain until the end – and as long as he remains it is ad you say, and as it is written, 'God makes the sun shine on the good as well as the wicked… For God is NOT PARTIAL'.
If God kept away from the Wicked and only gave to the good then we would ALL BE GOOD – for that reason Only. But no, God desires for us to be good by Faith.
Has not wicked people won the lottery? And the good?
Do wicked people not live in luxury? And the good?
Do not good people live in poverty? And the wicked?
Do not good people get wrongly accused? And the wicked?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 29 2011,20:56) Again ……..for the hundredth time Spirits do not have bodies they are what is in bodies. One of the biggest problem in religion is not understanding what Spirit is. Just understand that one thing can clear up so many scriptures and confusions fostered on us by Apostate Religions. Spirit is cognitive powers in our minds better know as intellects working in our minds. IMO peace and love to you all…………………………………………….gene
Gene,
I agree on this point, spirits are somewhat like electricity, in the case of people we are like batteries, self contained, powering only the devise (ourselves). Other “spiritual beings” are like power generators (different levels of power) that can have a lot of power feeding to various places, as long as someone has 'plugged in' although it may arc to anything getting too close. But in the case of the Father His Spirit is like lightning able to reach anywhere on the planet and to those who put up a lightning rod (His Son) they can actually attract it. however unlike lightning, the Holy Spirit won't fry our circuits, but instead augments our spirit, giving us the power necessary to truly live.My opinion – Wm
istari
Quote God has APPOINTED A TIME for that DESTRUCTION. So, until that time, yes, God is in even the wicked! in this way you are guilty of all what your children do no matter what age they are.
Pierre
all
if beings with a soul do not have a form that make there body (in what ever texture it can be )then i do not have a body and so does any men ever lived on this earth
Pierre
Quote (seekingtruth @ April 30 2011,01:37) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 29 2011,20:56) Again ……..for the hundredth time Spirits do not have bodies they are what is in bodies. One of the biggest problem in religion is not understanding what Spirit is. Just understand that one thing can clear up so many scriptures and confusions fostered on us by Apostate Religions. Spirit is cognitive powers in our minds better know as intellects working in our minds. IMO peace and love to you all…………………………………………….gene
Gene,
I agree on this point, spirits are somewhat like electricity, in the case of people we are like batteries, self contained, powering only the devise (ourselves). Other “spiritual beings” are like power generators (different levels of power) that can have a lot of power feeding to various places, as long as someone has 'plugged in' although it may arc to anything getting too close. But in the case of the Father His Spirit is like lightning able to reach anywhere on the planet and to those who put up a lightning rod (His Son) they can actually attract it. however unlike lightning, the Holy Spirit won't fry our circuits, but instead augments our spirit, giving us the power necessary to truly live.My opinion – Wm
WM………..Good Point brother. Our physical bodies are like Batteries and we are charged with Spirit, Some more (full of spirit) then others. Good Metaphor brother.peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene
To all,
A scripture to consider.
Quote 2 Corinthians 5 (Young's Literal Translation) 1For we have known that if our earthly house of the tabernacle may be thrown down, a building from God we have, an house not made with hands — age-during — in the heavens,
2for also in this we groan, with our dwelling that is from heaven earnestly desiring to clothe ourselves,
3if so be that, having clothed ourselves, we shall not be found naked,
4for we also who are in the tabernacle do groan, being burdened, seeing we wish not to unclothe ourselves, but to clothe ourselves, that the mortal may be swallowed up of the life.
Terra,
A body is an encased set of elements to give a defined shape and move together as one greater element.
A mass of birds flying together with a common intent can be said to form a 'body of birds' to which we give the name 'Flock'.
The flesh, bone and blood is what makes a human BODY.
There is an additional usage of 'body' meaning 'The main part' such that we say that the TRUNK of a human is the BODY – as opposed to the HEAD or the LEGS.The BODY… we are referring to is the whole encasement … To which my argument is that a SPIRIT, which is the INTELLECTUAL, COGNISENT, thinking, empowering, 'quickening'(making active) FORCE… has no ENCASEMENT… a Spirit is not a body – (as Gene says… In part) Spirit is what is IN A BODY – to ENABLE THAT BODY to have LIFE.
A body without a Spirit has NO LIFE – is DEAD!If a Spirit has a BODY… how is it infused in a body – is there a SIZE, weight, shape, consistency to a Spirit – please tell me what it is?
Easy questions:
1) how many Spirits can occupy the tip of a the tiniest pin?
2) how small or large are those Spirits?
3) how much force or energy (how powerful) are those Spirits?Jesus said, effectively, a 'BODY' cannot inherit (exist in) the kingdom of heaven.
And that is exactly because a Heaven is not a place of ENCASED ELEMENTS.
a Body is an obstruction, a Restriction, a Contraction, of that which is Spirit…Have you not heard the saying, 'Free Spirit'?
When have ever heard, 'Free Body'?
Have you heard, 'Bounded Body'?
Yet have you also heard, 'bounded Spirit'?
So, the Spirit, though FREE, can be BOUNDED – by the flesh.
When the Spirit is BOUNDED it becomes limited. Human Spirit is LIMITED.
Angelic Spirit is UNLIMITED being that it is UNBOUNDED.Angelic (Spirit) can go 'where it will' at anytime it will.
Can a Human (Spirit) Go where it will when it will – only in extremely limited way – because it has to take it's bounded BODY of flesh with it in union with a single intent… Nearly Every part of the BODY is involved in some way with every other part.
A Spirit has NO SUCH restrictions because it has no encased elements that require keeping and working together at ALL TIMES (at any time).When a Spirit appears in the Physical world, it acquires a BODY with which to INTERACT in a HUMAN WAY with the HUMAN people it came to deliver it's message to.
See, when Moses was spoken to the Angel Spirit in the burning bush, how did Moses then go and say to another, 'A burning bush told me this… Or that…'?
Is it not translated: 'An Angel told me this… Or that…'
Or even, 'God (through the Angel… Through the Bush…) told me this… Or that…'!
And even, what is Fire but RAW ENERGY…
and what is Power but Raw Energy …
And what is Force but WORKING ENERGY…
and What is Spirit but WORKING ENERGY…
Does Energy have a Body?
In the physical world it certainly acquires a RESTRICTION else, for instance, the whole land could be encased with the raw fire energy of the Spirit… So it is restricted to a small tiny area for the benefit of mankind.
Moreover, it is restricted and SHAPED like the body of MAN along with a dignified symbolic covering of a White flowing (and glowing) apparel.
Thus, in most cases, it is said 'A Man told me this… Or that…'!Notice that in the vast majority of cases this 'Man' has NO NAME, is never recognised as any explicit person, and does not Eat (but request that the meat be offered as a meat offering to God (See the story of Samson in the book of Judges) and is later realised to have been an Angel of God.
And, how does the Angel Spirit APPEAR and DISAPPEAR in an instance, in the blinking of an eye, so to speak?
Where does the BODY go to, where did it come from?Can energy be gathered at one place seemingly from nowhere and disappear seemingly to nowhere… Yes…
How does a forest fire start – how does a Storm gather?
Where does the body of energy of the fire go to?
Where does the body of energy of the storm disappear to?To All…………..Spirit is not a person it is intellect, and can be in anyone at the same time , GOD is Spirit and can indwell anyone or all at the same time. “that God maybe in all and through all , Are Physical bpdies important YES Because they are the individual containers of those Spirits. A spirit without a body is said to be Naked or unclothed. Spirit is useless if not in something it just drifts in less space having not mass or substance. It needs rest, to be (IN) something to animate in order for it to have purpose and individually effect something. Here is an example lets take the Spirit of Wisdom what good is it if it is not functioning (IN) something a Vessel or Body. Even thought it exists, so what, if it is not shared and effecting something.
GOD LIVES Vicariously (IN) His creation it is HIS BODY He lives in and He effects all Creation or He simply would exist in endless Space with no purpose, But he exists in each of us and gives Purpose and reason to each and everyone of us . GOD the Father enjoys each one of us individually and collectively, we are his childern who he mingles with by his spirits he gives us He enjoys living in our Bodies with Us and going and doing things with us all. A Body is necessary for all of us to have, we are not just spirits we are BODIES with Spirits (IN) us, both now and in the future. Jesus has a Body NOW and will come with that Body when he returns, Jesus is not a Spirit now or ever will be, GOD the Father Only does not have a Separate Body He lives vicariously (IN) his creation. IMO
We individually are more important to God the Father than we may think and He is more important to us then we may think, For without him we can do nothing. IMO
peace and love to you all…………………………………….gene
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