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Quote (seekingtruth @ April 23 2011,12:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 24 2011,01:17) Quote (seekingtruth @ April 23 2011,10:12) I say that Jesus is flesh and bone because He said it.
Hi Wm,Do you suppose the flesh and bone body with holes in it is the “glorious new body” Paul said Jesus has been given in Phil 3:21?
mike
Yes I do, I believe these holes were 'preserved' as a reminder of what it cost for our redemption.My opinion – Wm
So in Zech 3, which you quoted, Joshua has his filthy clothes taken off and new clean clothes put on him. But Jesus is destined to remain in his “filthy clothes” forever?I don't see it that way.
mike
Quote (seekingtruth @ April 23 2011,13:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 24 2011,01:17) Quote (seekingtruth @ April 23 2011,10:12) I say that Jesus is flesh and bone because He said it.
Hi Wm,Do you suppose the flesh and bone body with holes in it is the “glorious new body” Paul said Jesus has been given in Phil 3:21?
mike
Yes I do, I believe these holes were 'preserved' as a reminder of what it cost for our redemption.My opinion – Wm
Hi SeekingI agree His Body is glorified and has been changed just as ours will be resurrected and changed.
Not to mention Phil 3:21 does not say Jesus got “a whole new body”, does it?
WJ
All
is any one ever go to NOVA site and look in space ?
and wander with all the stars ,the galaxies ,the space in 1000 light years ,so colorful and then still can say spirit have flesh bodies ?
even Jesus wen he went up no one can say that he took his flesh body with him ,the fact that he disappeared from view does this not tell you something ?
Jesus went from visible to invisible from earthly view to spiritual being (living spirit)
Pierre
Mike,
Neither do I, I did not infer in any way that Jesus did not get His glorified body, actually quite the opposite, please re-read my posts or is this an argument technique to put me on the defensive?My opinion – Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ April 23 2011,13:21) Mike,
Neither do I, I did not infer in any way that Jesus did not get His glorified body, actually quite the opposite, please re-read my posts or is this an argument technique to put me on the defensive?My opinion – Wm
What is it with you people?
I made a point from what I believe. Why is it that I'm always “asking loaded questions” and what not?
So Wm, does your post say the Jesus' new glorious body has holes in it for a reminder? Why? Which one of us in in heaven right now being reminded by seeing his holes every time we see him?
mike
PS You and Keith are ignoring Gal 1:1, 1:11, 1 Cor 15:45 and 50……..which all say very clearly that Jesus is not human anymore.
Mike,
It's good to see that you can use a dictionary when it says what YOU Want it to say. Even if ignoring the parts that disagree with what YOU don't like.The definitions of Spirit show that it is Immaterial.
Spirit with BODY … Wine? Alcoholic Drink – full bodied Spirit… Ha! you say, proof – Spirit with Body, yeh!!! If some are FULL BODIED then the dictionary was right about part body … Now what, JA?
Mike, when ya gotta scrape the barrel ya only gonna dredge up dirt!!
In fact, isn't the required say, 'When you find yourself at the bottom of the barrel – Stop Scraping'Quote (seekingtruth @ April 23 2011,14:21) Mike,
Neither do I, I did not infer in any way that Jesus did not get His glorified body, actually quite the opposite, please re-read my posts or is this an argument technique to put me on the defensive?My opinion – Wm
Hi WilliamI agree…
To deny that Jesus was not raised in his own sinless body and then Glorified in that body is to deny the resurrection!
WJ
Mike,
First of all, if you did not purposely put words in my mouth then I apologize (or you can show me where I said that “Jesus is destined to remain in his “filthy clothes” forever”).Now if you read what I posted; IN MY OPINION the holes were left there as a reminder, scripture however only tells us that the hole were there. And as to Jesus saying His new body was flesh and bones, do you believe Him or did he deceive us.
Wm
WJ, WM,
I too agree this point.
It is clear by Scriptures that this is the case.To say else would be to say that God created a new body for Jesus and then out holes in it.
Then Jesus showed himself in this new body making a false claim, 'See the holes in my hands and feet'
A claim, then, that any FALSE Spirit in a Body (Demon) could have made!But we know Jesus does not lie so we can confidently believe that the body Jesus presented was that same but glorified now body that he died in.
As has been said and I have said, the holes are to be a memorial to his sacrifice (As used in the Film the GodFather where Michael refused to have his Jaw fixed after being walloped by the police captain McCluskey – you can't make a film called 'the Godfather' and not use biblical references. Even MICHAEL, (Jesus), was the lesser but ONLY LOVED Son of his Father who was RAISED UP above his other brothers, the First brother of whom 'Fell')
WJ,
God holds put his hands to all of us that through the testamony if his Christ we may all come to believe in him and his Christ.There is a hope through Faith, and there is a hope through Works, and even better, both Faith and Works.
So, even with wrongful faith, one can still aspire to Paradise through Godly Works!
Um, Mike,
Did any of those definitions of Spirit show any of them having a body?
If so, which one and how in relation to Jesus and Angels, and Indeed, God himself!Istari,
This is what NETNotes says about the Greek word for “man”:
1) a human being, whether male or female
1a) generically, to include all human individuals
1b) to distinguish man from beings of a different order
1b1) of animals and plants
1b2) of from God and Christ
1b3) of the angels
1c) with the added notion of weakness, by which man is led
into a mistake or prompted to sin
1d) with the adjunct notion of contempt or disdainful pity
1e) with reference to two fold nature of man, body and soul
1f) with reference to the two fold nature of man, the corrupt
and the truly Christian man, conformed to the nature of God
1g) with reference to sex, a male
2) indefinitely, someone, a man, one
3) in the plural, people
4) joined with other words, merchantmanDo any of THESE definitions show any of THEM having a body?
Does that mean they don't? Try a different approach Istari. For Jesus DOES have a body and Jesus IS a spirit. Scripture tellls us both of these things.mike
Quote (seekingtruth @ April 23 2011,14:20) Mike,
First of all, if you did not purposely put words in my mouth then I apologize (or you can show me where I said that “Jesus is destined to remain in his “filthy clothes” forever”).Now if you read what I posted; IN MY OPINION the holes were left there as a reminder, scripture however only tells us that the hole were there. And as to Jesus saying His new body was flesh and bones, do you believe Him or did he deceive us.
Wm
Hi Wm,I took your assumption that Jesus will live out his days in a tattered and torn, hole-ridden body as a major contrast to the new and clean clothes given to the high priest in Zech 3.
As far as the words, “IN MY OPINION”, everything anyone ever posts here is their own opinion or conjecture or interpretation of the scriptural words. The English scriptural words themselves are merely the OPINIONS of the translators, as can be clearly seen from the many different wordings of the same exact scripture.
As far as your last point, I have made myself very clear on this thread in the past that Jesus would have never lied to his disciples when he assured them he wasn't a spirit. But nothing in scripture says Jesus was raised from the grave in a “new” body. I submit that he was raised in the exact body he died in, remained on the earth for 40 more days, and then had that body transformed into the new glorious body Paul spoke of as he ascended to heaven. This new transformed body (“transformed” being the exact word Paul used in Phil 3:21) has to be a spirit body, for Jesus is now spirit. It cannot contain flesh, like EVERY SINGLE human body has, because flesh cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.
I have formed my understanding around all of the scriptures, some of which I have been shown during the course of this thread, causing me to alter my previous understanding.
peace to you Wm,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ April 24 2011,15:11) It cannot contain flesh, like EVERY SINGLE human body has, because flesh cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.
Mike,It depends how you take the word -flesh.
Flesh and bone cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
So, tranform the bone (in the twinkling of an eye we will be changed) into something else, some other form of bone…..
And the flesh, change that too, forget the nerves which cause pain, and so forth.Make the body lighter and make it adaptable to what is 'up there' some faraway place we have never seen (I go to prepare a place)….
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 24 2011,09:11) Quote (seekingtruth @ April 23 2011,14:20) Mike,
First of all, if you did not purposely put words in my mouth then I apologize (or you can show me where I said that “Jesus is destined to remain in his “filthy clothes” forever”).Now if you read what I posted; IN MY OPINION the holes were left there as a reminder, scripture however only tells us that the hole were there. And as to Jesus saying His new body was flesh and bones, do you believe Him or did he deceive us.
Wm
Hi Wm,I took your assumption that Jesus will live out his days in a tattered and torn, hole-ridden body as a major contrast to the new and clean clothes given to the high priest in Zech 3.
My assumption??? I see no reason to go any further until we resolve this point. I never; said, inferred, suggested, thought or believed that Jesus did not get His new body, yet twice you have accused me of it.
Wm
Hi Seeking and Mike.
I hardly think Jesus would still be in the body he showed the Disciples.
When he ascended into heaven, I would say (guess..and according to the scriptures) he was changed.
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