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Hi david,
I do not mean that God needed to experiment to improvre His knowledge but can't see why He might not want to play around with the clay a bit.Quote (t8 @ Sep. 20 2004,08:18) The Genesis record appears to show that animals were created before man. So do we really know how long these animals were around before God created man. Also the dinosaurs could have existed until the flood and were drowned in the flood leaving fossils as we see today. Apparently fossils are the exception rather than the norm. They exist when an animal or plant is killed and preserved suddenly. Otherwise decay sets in and the organism just breaks down. A flood is a perfect catastrophe for creating fossils.
Mammoths have been discovered in the Artic ice. I heard that some were found with buttercups in their stomachs. If this is true, then it suggests that they were eating plants from a warm north pole and then in a very quick period of time, they were frozen before physical decay set in. The flood could explain this.
You may also be interested in the following verse where the LORD is chastising Job:
Job 40:15-24
15 “Look at the behemoth,
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.
16 What strength he has in his loins,
what power in the muscles of his belly!
17 His tail sways like a cedar;
the sinews of his thighs are close-knit.
18 His bones are tubes of bronze,
his limbs like rods of iron.
19 He ranks first among the works of God,
yet his Maker can approach him with his sword.
20 The hills bring him their produce,
and all the wild animals play nearby.
21 Under the lotus plants he lies,
hidden among the reeds in the marsh.
22 The lotuses conceal him in their shadow;
the poplars by the stream surround him.
23 When the river rages, he is not alarmed;
he is secure, though the Jordan should surge against his mouth.
24 Can anyone capture him by the eyes,
or trap him and pierce his nose?Some say this animal is a hippopotamus, but the description of this creatures tail doesn't seem to support this.
Back in 1970, newspapers reported the discovery of cave paintings in Zimbabwe. The paintings were made by bushmen who ruled that area from about 1500 B.C., until a couple of hundred years ago. Along with accurate representations of the elephant and the giraffe, is a painting of an Apatosaurus (brontosaurus). These art works have greatly puzzled scientists since bushmen are known to have painted from real life!
Also a supposed discovery of what appeared to be human footprints, along with dinosaur tracks (in the Paluxy River bed near Glen Rose, Texas), was reported in the May 1939 issue of Natural History.
There is also a possibility that the earth was populated before God created man. I do not have an opinion here, but I offer this line of thought anyway. The scriptures used to back this up include:
Genesis 9:1
“And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.”Genesis 1:28
“And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”So Noah was told to replenish the earth after it was destroyed by the flood and man was also told to replenish the earth when God created man. If this were true, then Genesis 2 may offer a clue.
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.So there could have been an age or many ages before our one and they ended with darkness, with God creating a new world after that. People who hold this view tend to say that God wouldn't create a world in darkness to begin with. Rather it is a period that marks the end of an age and God then creates a new one. Let there be light etc.
Again I do not have a solid belief here, but I also do not see a conflict with the bible and the existance of dinosaurs.
I also found The scripture in Job. And I believe that they were preadmites. Who did Cain marry? His sister? THANKS!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2005,08:57) Hi k,
Who did Adam wed? His own rib?
Oh! I see Cains wife came from his rib.
Gen 4:13 But Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is more than I can stand!
Gen 4:14 You have forced me off this land today. I have to hide from you and become a fugitive, a wanderer on the earth. Now anyone who finds me will kill me!
Then who is Cain speeking of: “Now ANYONE who finds me will kill me. Anyone means more than one. So who were the peoples that Cain was speaking of?Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 22 2005,20:48) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2005,08:57) Hi k,
Who did Adam wed? His own rib?
Oh! I see Cains wife came from his rib.
Gen 4:13 But Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is more than I can stand!
Gen 4:14 You have forced me off this land today. I have to hide from you and become a fugitive, a wanderer on the earth. Now anyone who finds me will kill me!
Then who is Cain speeking of: “Now ANYONE who finds me will kill me. Anyone means more than one. So who were the peoples that Cain was speaking of?
No k,
Not at all. But the point I make is that we are not to judge Genesis by our moral standards or we judge the Creator. He took Eve from Adam's rib and by the will of God we come from there. Cain married some close relative too but many, many generations may have passed before such a union occurred, once again in the will of God who did not judge these things evil. Adam lived many many [930]years and had large numbers of children as they all did till the flood.
Gen 5 .4
” .. and he had other sons and daughters..”as is also said of Seth and Enosh, Kenan etc.Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
Gen 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.Granted the bible says that Adam and Eve had “other” children but they couldn't have been older children than Cain and Abel. The first child was Cain then Abel. Cain killed Abel so the only child “at that time” was Cain.
My dog just had a seizure
too much inbreeding, don't you think. If you could see the suffering he went through… Makes me ask WHY! God knows when a sparrow falls so why is this happening to a inocent animal. Unless someone somewhere along the line messed up the blood line. Then as I said befrore “It wouldn't be God's fault” !
What “SIN” did this animal commit. He didn't break any commandment! So did improper breeding cause this animal to be sick?If this would have happened in Jesus' time thry would have said he has a demon. What do you think?
Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 27 2005,02:05) Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
Gen 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.Granted the bible says that Adam and Eve had “other” children but they couldn't have been older children than Cain and Abel. The first child was Cain then Abel. Cain killed Abel so the only child “at that time” was Cain.
My dog just had a seizure
too much inbreeding, don't you think. If you could see the suffering he went through… Makes me ask WHY! God knows when a sparrow falls so why is this happening to a inocent animal. Unless someone somewhere along the line messed up the blood line. Then as I said befrore “It wouldn't be God's fault” !
What “SIN” did this animal commit. He didn't break any commandment! So did improper breeding cause this animal to be sick?If this would have happened in Jesus' time thry would have said he has a demon. What do you think?
Can anyone answer that question. I know it's as old as the hills, but I'm open to any answer.Hi k,
How old was Adam when Cain was born?
How old was Cain when he slew Abel?
How many children did Adam have by this time?Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 27 2005,14:38) Ok God wins!!!!!!! I still love the truth! Thanks Nick!
Act 17:26 And he has made of one blood all the nations of men living on all the face of the earth, ordering their times and the limits of their lands,he has made of one blood all the nations of men living on all the face of the earth…can't argue with that!
The reason why we shouldn't marry relatives is that the human genepool contains curses that are released in coded DNA. The likelyhood of such traits are multiplied when 2 people with similar DNA have children.
Back with Adam and Eve, the genepool was perfect. Sin then entered the human race, but even then the genepool was a lot cleaner than it is today. Men lived longer and were more impressive creatures. But in time God cut our lives down to tens of years not hundreds and many other anomalies were introduced to humble us or as the results of curses men brought on themselves.
In the beginning, God started with 2 humans, one of them the prototype, (the son of God). From there God planned for the whole earth to be populated. Where your belief lies is almost irrelevant because evolutionists, creationists, and even moral campaigners, all believe in a protype and the need for people of close families to marry through the inevitiable lack of choice in the beginning. I am not aware of a prominent belief that has the human race starting from many prototypes, apart from some alien conspiracies perhaps. Those who believe the scripture have Adam & Eve and those who believe evolution have Lucy or whatever. It appears that most of the human race believe in a prototype from which we all came from.
We also need to take into account that scripture tells us that people lived for hundreds of years, so when Adam and Even had many children, it actually wouldn't take too long before the first cities were built. So it seems likely that there were many people by the time Cain married.
E.g., If Adam and Eve had 100 children given their great life span, then if the next generation also had hundred children per couple, we are then looking at say 5,000 by the 3rd generation. It actually wouldn't take that long for the first million, because the population is growing faster then exponential.
Even 10s of children would increase the population quickly.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 19 2005,11:41) The reason why we shouldn't marry relatives is that the human genepool contains curses that are released in coded DNA. The likelyhood of such traits are multiplied when 2 people with similar DNA have children. Back with Adam and Eve, the genepool was perfect. Sin then entered the human race, but even then the genepool was a lot cleaner than it is today. Men lived longer and were more impressive creatures. But in time God cut our lives down to tens of years not hundreds and many other anomalies were introduced to humble us or as the results of curses men brought on themselves.
In the beginning, God started with 2 humans, one of them the prototype, (the son of God). From there God planned for the whole earth to be populated. Where your belief lies is almost irrelevant because evolutionists, creationists, and even moral campaigners, all believe in a protype and the need for people of close families to marry through the inevitiable lack of choice in the beginning. I am not aware of a prominent belief that has the human race starting from many prototypes, apart from some alien conspiracies perhaps. Those who believe the scripture have Adam & Eve and those who believe evolution have Lucy or whatever. It appears that most of the human race believe in a prototype from which we all came from.
We also need to take into account that scripture tells us that people lived for hundreds of years, so when Adam and Even had many children, it actually wouldn't take too long before the first cities were built. So it seems likely that there were many people by the time Cain married.
E.g., If Adam and Eve had 100 children given their great life span, then if the next generation also had hundred children per couple, we are then looking at say 5,000 by the 3rd generation. It actually wouldn't take that long for the first million, because the population is growing faster then exponential.
Even 10s of children would increase the population quickly.
Thanks t8Hi t8
It has been a while since you posted this:
++”In the beginning, God started with 2 humans, one of them the prototype, (the son of God). From there God planned for the whole earth to be populated. Where your belief lies is almost irrelevant because evolutionists, creationists, and even moral campaigners, all believe in a protype and the need for people of close families to marry through the inevitiable lack of choice in the beginning. I am not aware of a prominent belief that has the human race starting from many prototypes, apart from some alien conspiracies perhaps. Those who believe the scripture have Adam & Eve and those who believe evolution have Lucy or whatever. It appears that most of the human race believe in a prototype from which we all came from.
Indeed the bible does start humans off with Adam and Eve, and again later with the family of Noah, but the scientific view is of what you call “many prototypes”.
Sometime around 200,000 years ago a subset of the Homo heidelbergensis population was accumulating genetic changes, partly as a result of geographical isolation, that would lead to it becoming reproductively isolated, in effect the new species Homo sapiens.
This change involved a whole population of ancestors, not just two.Stuart
thanks nick i didn't see this thread.
still it makes me wonder now since i was brought up as a JW that there are a lot of things not total true as they claim to be knowing.
Hi p2a.
Don't JWs believe that the world was much flatter thousands of years ago which meant that not nearly as much water was needed to cover Mt Everest during the Noachian flood than people originally though?
They are funny.
Stuart
It has been a while since I read t8's post at the top of p.6.
“The reason why we shouldn't marry relatives is that the human genepool contains curses that are released in coded DNA”.
The old 'curses' theory eh? Very Dark Ages.
Stuart
Quote (Guest @ Sep. 20 2004,17:43) We KNOW that dinos existed. They are not mentioned in the Bible at all (KJV). Why? Were they on the earth prior to Adam and Eve? Since the Bible starts with A&E, that is not possible. Were they WITH A&E? Also not possible since there is no mention of dinos either in the Garden or after the expulsion on the outside. Where did they come from? We know where they went.
GuestWhy is what not possible?
The reason every body wonders where the skeletons of dinosaurs etc. come from is; your looking at Gen. 1 all wrong. Gen. 1 is stating a fact, not describing the creation. Look at verse 2, would you say the angels would have shouted for joy (Job 38:6,7) when they saw the earth looking like that? All those huge animals were God's first creation, when Lucifer rebelled against God , it all went chaotic and died.
Gen 1 is a renewing of the face of the earth, (Ps. 104:30)
When God created vegetation, birds, fish, and all kinds of beasts; did you notice that he created them “after their kind”? If you create something after something; something must have been there before, don't you think?
Man was not created “after” his kind; his kind did not exist before.
I hope this will help.You know what I don't do? pay attention to the date of the post.
Georg
Georg
Creating something 'after its kind' is an English expression that does not really mean 'after', but means 'in the manner of'. It is no longer in common usage, although artists might call their work 'after Matisse': yes the work was made after Matisse made his art, but what they mean is 'in the style of Matisse'.
Dinosaurs and humans alive together is not possible because the earliest fossils that could be called anything like human are just a few million years old, but the last dinosaur was dead 65 million years ago. At that time, our distant ancestor was a small mammal, something a bit like a modern shrew. There is a trail of descent linking that shrew with modern humans, therefore it is not possible that humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time.
Stuart
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