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Quote (david @ April 06 2010,18:20) Quote I think in 4 dimensions, and I defy you to demonstrate the reality of anything beyond that number. Sounds like something someone in flat world would say about the third dimension.
Nice one!Hi all,
Wow the Skeptics pages are brutal. lol
And i dont blame ya.Note: that i have not read the whole thread. So im just going to respond to the topic. Im not intrested in debating, if we are going to be closed minded, Im open enough to consider every single one of your points, even though i might respectfully disagree, i hope that if i make any points, that you may consider it, yet disagree its ok, no harm done.
I have some knowledge to the dinosaurs area, even though its extra biblical, and many of the evidence held for evolution, gap theory, big bang, are well theories.
none considerably true. So we can believe in it but not enough to hold it as absolute truth. I have heard of evidence in college of some guy making a cell. than again i dont remember, but that was my teachers arguement.
without going any further, im not really going to put what i think, But i am going to offer this site with Dr.Hovind seminars on topics such as these, there is even videos of public debates. Tell me what you think?
But if you all can tell me your opinion of this site and seminar.
give me feed back i would like to know what you think?http://drdino.com/media-categories.php?c=seminars&v=10
unfortunaly i cannot upload the video…. so ill tell u how to get to it.
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Multimedia,
Creation seminars,
Part 3.
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Note: its about two hours long, but i liked it. I perfer the debates, they are way better and intresting.The jailbird Kent Hovind has a “doctorate” in christian education from a non-accredited “university”. That doesn't put you off what he is trying to say about science?
Heck, I wouldn't want to give seminars on theology, yet I am more qualified to do that than this liar* is to give seminars on science.
*That is something I can say about him legally without fear of committing libel! That gives me no pleasure, of course.
OK, it gives me immense pleasure.
Stuart
I watched a few minutes, then stopped. There is justice in the fact that this man is in jail for lying.
If you would like to raise points of his you think are valid, please give them to us one at a time.
Stuart
I looked at the video.
He offers 250,000 if you have proof of evolution.
Should cash in Stu. And I want a 10% finders fee.Evolution world view.
- Who am I? Nothing important, in fact you are a problem, you pollute the environment.
- Where did I come from? A cosmic burp
- Why am I here? There is no purpose. Just have fun. Do what feels good.
- Where am I going when I die? You are going to the grave to be recycled as a worm or something.
Sounds like no future to me.
Quote (t8 @ May 31 2010,21:46) I looked at the video. He offers 250,000 if you have proof of evolution.
Should cash in Stu. And I want a 10% finders fee.
There is no such thing as scientific proof. Of anything.Hovind's offer is a con.
But then he is a con artist.
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ May 31 2010,21:52) Evolution world view. - Who am I? Nothing important, in fact you are a problem, you pollute the environment.
- Where did I come from? A cosmic burp
- Why am I here? There is no purpose. Just have fun. Do what feels good.
- Where am I going when I die? You are going to the grave to be recycled as a worm or something.
Sounds like no future to me.
Sounds like a fatuous load of strawpersons to me.Stuart
It doesn't really matter that the evolutionary world view doesn't lead to a sense of fulfillment or meaning.
If anything, the fact that people so very much desire meaning and that they find meaning in religion but not in evolution would seem to be proof towards evolutionists being less biased.
If it is truth we are after, it shouldn't matter if that truth ends up being messy or even painful and depressing.I just think this argument is a bad one.
I agree that truth is truth no matter how pretty or ugly it maybe and it is us who must accept it.
But belief in Evolution means that you have no eternal value and that has consequences which are not intended if indeed it is not a true doctrine.
Belief in God makes people more responsible, but the abuse here is that you can teach people that God said to fly planes into buildings, etc.So in the end, it is truth that matters and it is lies that lead people to believe and do things that are not intended.
I am a firm believer that no good can come from a lie and saying that there is no God is a lie and a foolish lie at that.
Quote (david @ June 18 2010,12:33) It doesn't really matter that the evolutionary world view doesn't lead to a sense of fulfillment or meaning.
If anything, the fact that people so very much desire meaning and that they find meaning in religion but not in evolution would seem to be proof towards evolutionists being less biased.
If it is truth we are after, it shouldn't matter if that truth ends up being messy or even painful and depressing.I just think this argument is a bad one.
David,
While I agree that Christians are biased for the reasons you listed, I disagree that evolutionst are less biased. The elimination of God, and His law, is even a greater motivator than meaning.However I fully agree that truth is truth and should be imbraced no matter what, as long as it is really truth and not just someones opinion of what truth is.
My opinion – Wm
Quote I disagree that evolutionst are less biased. Seekingtruth, maybe I said that wrong. I just consider what is at stake and who has more at stake.
With those who believe in God, their very belief in everlasting life is at stake. Their eternal future is at stake. The lives of their families is at stake. For those who believe in God, they have a lot more to lose and a lot more to gain.
So the very thought or idea of changing their beliefs, or considering the possibility that maybe they are wrong….it's much harder because they have invested so much in their beliefs.
Maybe, but atheists also have a lot at stake. Future punishment is something atheists might fear if they think there is any possibility that YHWH is God. Some wicked people even believe in God, but think judgement is so far off, it doesn't matter right now.
Believers have salvation to lose and atheists have judgement waiting for them as unbelievers are also thrown into the Lake of Fire along with other sinners.
The only difference is that a believer is more likely to be loyal by reason of their belief, whereas an Atheist can keep his head stuck in the sand and live in denial. However, even when I was an atheist, it did annoy me that God could exist, because I knew that I was a sinner as I openly partook of a sinful life. It use to annoy me that God could be true and as such I didn't want to hear about God. After all, in our honest moments, we know that we can be wrong.
Quote (t8 @ July 16 2010,16:55) Maybe, but atheists also have a lot at stake. Future punishment is something atheists might fear if they think there is any possibility that YHWH is God. Some wicked people even believe in God, but think judgement is so far off, it doesn't matter right now. Believers have salvation to lose and atheists have judgement waiting for them as unbelievers are also thrown into the Lake of Fire along with other sinners.
The only difference is that a believer is more likely to be loyal by reason of their belief, whereas an Atheist can keep his head stuck in the sand and live in denial. However, even when I was an atheist, it did annoy me that God could exist, because I knew that I was a sinner as I openly partook of a sinful life. It use to annoy me that God could be true and as such I didn't want to hear about God. After all, in our honest moments, we know that we can be wrong.
No t8.If a Christians suddenly “realizes” that there is no God, then his life is despair, and saddness, seemingly, losing meaning, and then to die, and never live again.
If an Athiest suddenly “realizes” that God exists, then he has just gained life, he has just gained hope, and been given great news that will make him beam and glow. Even the possibility of living forever and meaning to everything, great news.
So, we see the biases.
–A Christian is biased away from WANTING to change his beliefs.
–An Athiest is biased towards WANTING God to be real and changing his beliefs.
I would bet a lot that to be given a choice to live in a world where eventually everything will make sense, and there will be no suffering, both the atheist and the Christian would choose that world to live in.
And I would also bet a lot that if given a choice between two worlds, one with God, and one with nothing, just to live and then die, both would choose God.Regarding evolution by natural selection, evolution is simply a fact of life, and natural selection the robust theory that explains it so well that it is one of the longest-lived theories in all science, not disproved by anyone in 151 years. Rather than the case with other theories where new facts have caused the need to modify the theory, in the case of Darwin the facts have mostly just fitted into the theory. If a person rejects this then he may as well call the world an illusion: that is the only alternative that has any credibility.
It is obviously a nonsense to suggest that evolutionary theory means there can be no such thing as ethics. Making them the absolute dictate of an Imaginary Friend is just a childish way of doing the same thing as treating them as principles by which to lead a responsible life. Fearing punishment or wishing to be thought of well by some deity is base-level thinking.
The brilliant thing about holding a worldview that acknowledges evolution by natural selection is that you do not have to feel secretly fearful of the embarrassment of being descended from monkeys, because you can just say it is a fact of heredity, which it actually is. And, it is a beautiful theory with the stunning implication that all life is related, which leads to exercising a care of duty that cannot be encompassed in the cheap and ugly alternative that some Imaginary Friend gave us “dominion” over other species. Apart from being an arrogant position to take, it is also just not true: it is microorganisms that have dominion over us. If they go, we go. Very often if they invade our bodies, we die.
Stuart
Regarding atheism, as one of them I do not feel any sense of wanting anything to be real. If it is real then that is interesting, if it is just me wishing it were real when it is a delusion, then that is not healthy. The really nasty threat you derive from your delusion that I might live forever is something I do not want. It robs from meaning, it does not enhance it.
The smoke and mirrors of the Judeo-christian delusion does not represent “a lot at stake”. By any reliable way of knowing anything it is mythology, and if by some bizarre quirk it is true and there is a deity waiting to punish me for the mere fact of not believing in it because it did not give evidence of its existence, then it is an immoral deity unworthy of respect.
Stuart
Quote (david @ July 17 2010,17:49) –An Athiest is biased towards WANTING God to be real and changing his beliefs.
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.You underestimate the effect that the light can have on those who live in darkness. I know this first-hand. I lived in great darkness for years. At that time, I hated the light. I couldn't stand it. But I changed because I knew I had to. But not all make that choice.
Quote (Stu @ July 18 2010,21:41) if it is just me wishing it were real when it is a delusion…
You wish God wasn't real. Does that make your wish a delusion?I would say that not all that you wish for is a delusion though.
Many people wish that they could do great things. It is within everyone that they can do great things if they have the faith. Most doubt however and never reach their potential.
Quote (Stu @ July 18 2010,21:34) and natural selection the robust theory that explains it so well that it is one of the longest-lived theories in all science, not disproved by anyone in 151 years.
A couple of things to point out here.1) Natural Selection was originally used to prove the opposite. That it preserves species by allowing the best features to surface therein giving the species a better chance at survival in the face of change and environmental challenges.
2) Most early scientists believed in God and used science to show how God made things. God has never been disproved to this day.
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