Did jesus abolish the law or not?

Participant

Satan's widespread deceptions concerning God's law:

Satan tells us: “You need not obey God's law.”

The implication being: “So take it off your list of priorities.”

Satan tells us: “You cannot obey God's law.”

The implication being: “So stop feeling guilty about habitual sin.”

Satan tells us: “You should not obey God's law.”

The implication being: “So keep away from all teachings that uplift God's law.”

We should keep God's law more and more, rather than less and less.

:cool:

October 30, 2009 at 8:33 am#154260

NickHassan

Participant

Hi CON,
Let go and let God.
The Spirit is more than able to teach us and lead us.

October 30, 2009 at 9:05 am#154266

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 30 2009,14:47)

Hi KW,
Really?

The Jews did then, and do now acknowledge that the God of Adam,Abraham, Moses, and Jesus is their God. There was of coarse those whom disobeyed him among their ranks but the same is true of any Congregation that Paul wrote to. In fact the Jewish Nation was the Church of God until the New Covenant came into effect on Pentecost so long ago.

October 30, 2009 at 9:08 am#154268

NickHassan

Participant

Hi KW,
Acknowledging that there is a God is commonsense not faith.
Whatever is not of faith is of sin.

October 30, 2009 at 9:15 am#154269

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 30 2009,16:08)

Hi KW,
Acknowledging that there is a God is commonsense not faith.
Whatever is not of faith is of sin.

You are stretching. Even though faith in God is common sense it does not eliminate that it is also faith.

Hebrews 11:6(KJV) reads:

Quote

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

I edited to correct my grammar.

October 30, 2009 at 2:52 pm#154286

georg

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 30 2009,21:15)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 30 2009,16:08)

Hi KW,
Acknowledging that there is a God is commonsense not faith.
Whatever is not of faith is of sin.

You are stretching though faith in God is common sense but one does not eliminate the other.

Hebrews 11:6(KJV) reads:

Quote

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

kerwin that is very true, seek and you will find, knock and it will be opened to you.
Even so, it is sometimes hard for some to have Faith. God has to show you first. Many are called, but few are chosen.
IMO when you seek God with all of your Heart, He will make Himself known to you.
Peace and Love Irene

November 7, 2009 at 6:06 am#155409

Participant

hi nick
it seams that you dont know what faith is ,if one person aknowledge that god exist it is by faith other wise he will deny that there is a god,i may aggre that this is very elementry knowledge but it is faith.

November 7, 2009 at 6:12 am#155411

Participant

hi const
why is that you are so persistant to apply the law or that someone should follow it ,do you dont know that thrue christians are set free of the law trough christ sacrifice.but if someone try to force upon us the burden of the law he would be the instrument of SATAN.

November 7, 2009 at 8:54 am#155421

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 06 2009,22:12)

What is the burden of the law? How is it a burden?

Is it ok to steal? Kill? Covet? Is it ok to practice witchcraft?

God's law don't apply to you? What are you set free to do?

Who is forcing on you? Me? How is that possible? Isn't the law a force in itself, delienating right from wrong?

Do you believe there is a right and a wrong? Or a good and evil? What is it that teaches right from wrong? Or good from evil?

Being free from the law means you can choose to do anything, because there is no wrong when you are free from it. It does not exist.

Do I apply law or do I magnify the law? Would you know the difference? I doubt it, because you think it is evil and does not exist.

Who is it that has more freedom? You or I?

November 7, 2009 at 8:56 am#155422

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 30 2009,02:15)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 30 2009,16:08)

Hi KW,
Acknowledging that there is a God is commonsense not faith.
Whatever is not of faith is of sin.

You are stretching. Even though faith in God is common sense it does not eliminate that it is also faith.

Hebrews 11:6(KJV) reads:

Quote

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

I edited to correct my grammar.

How do you edit in this forum?

November 7, 2009 at 9:43 am#155436

Participant

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 07 2009,14:56)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 30 2009,02:15)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 30 2009,16:08)

Hi KW,
Acknowledging that there is a God is commonsense not faith.
Whatever is not of faith is of sin.

You are stretching. Even though faith in God is common sense it does not eliminate that it is also faith.

Hebrews 11:6(KJV) reads:

Quote

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

I edited to correct my grammar.

How do you edit in this forum?

You go to this thread and ask heaven to give you the permissions necessary. It may take a few days.

November 18, 2009 at 8:52 pm#157565

Participant

hi all
but you can not say that you love God if you do not wath he ask of you,and this is crucial.

November 19, 2009 at 1:42 am#157601

Participant

Quote (georg @ Oct. 30 2009,01:26)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 30 2009,20:19)

Quote (georg @ Oct. 30 2009,00:40)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 30 2009,18:56)

Quote (georg @ Oct. 29 2009,05:46)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 29 2009,21:45)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 29 2009,02:32)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 29 2009,02:27)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 29 2009,15:19)

Hi KW,
THe book was written to those who had entered the new covenant with their God.
To obey his son and walk in the Spirit is to obey the first commandment.

You are making it more difficult than it is.

The teaching is simple in that in order to love God with all your heart, soul, strength, and understanding you must love your neighbor as yourself.

In order to love your neighbor as yourself you must love God with all your heart, soul, strength, and understanding.

In short the two commands are one command phrased in two different ways.

Makes sense to me.

:cool:

And thou shalt love ['ahab] the LORD thy God with all thine heart [lebab], and with all thy soul [nephesh], and with all thy might [ma`od]. Deuteronomy 6:5

'Ahab: Human love for or to God, human love for another, includes family, act of being a friend.

Nephesh: Life, creature, person, that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, living being, living being (with life in the blood), the man himself, self, person or individual.

Ma`od: Might, force, abundance, exceedingly, much, muchness, greatly, very (idioms showing magnitude or degree).

:cool:

This is the Old Covenant.

We are under he New Covenant in
Luke 223:20….”This cup is the new COVENANT IN MY BLOOD
which is shed for you.

And in Math. He gives us the great Commandment

Math. 22:37 Jesus said to him:” You shall love the LRD God with all of your heart and with all of your soul, and with all of you mind.”

verse 38 “This is the first and great commandment.

verse 39 ” And the second is like it;” You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

verse 40 “On these two Commandments hang ll the Law and the
Prophets.”

What I find so amazing,that in spite of that Jesus never mentioned the Sabbath you and others want to still keep it.

Peace and Love Irene

Hahaha! your funny, you said were not under the old law anymore when I quoted:

And thou shalt love ['ahab] the LORD thy God with all thine heart [lebab], and with all thy soul [nephesh], and with all thy might [ma`od]. Deuteronomy 6:5

You said we are under the new covenant and you quoted:

Math. 22:37 Jesus said to him:” You shall love the LRD God with all of your heart and with all of your soul, and with all of you mind.”

Hahaha, look its the same verse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Law was Repeated in the New Testament

1. Do not have other gods (Mt 4:10)

2. Do not have idols (Ac 17:29, 1Jn 5:21)

3. Do not misuse the Lord's name (1Ti 6:1)

4. Keep the 7th-day Sabbath holy (Mk 2:27,28, Lk 4:16)

5. Honor your parents (Mt 19:19)

6. Do not kill (Mt 19:18, Ro 13:9)

7. Do not commit adultery (Mt 19:18, Ro 13:9)

8. Do not steal (Mt 19:18, Ro 13:9)

9. Do not give false testimony (Mt 19:18, Ro 13:9)

10. Do not covet (Ro 7:7, Ro 13:9)

What is your definition of fulfilled? :cool:

November 19, 2009 at 1:59 am#157603

Participant

Definitions of fulfilled on the Web:

completed to perfection
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

He fulfilled the law in all it's perfection.

fulfil – carry through: put in effect; “carry out a task”; “execute the decision of the people”; “He actioned the operation”
fulfil – meet: fill or meet a want or need
fulfil – satisfy: meet the requirements or expectations of
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

He carried out the law in all it's affects, he met the needs of the law, not just because it was required of him, but that it was expected of him.

fulfillment – a feeling of satisfaction at having achieved your desires
fulfillment – the act of consummating something (a desire or promise etc)
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

It was his desire to satisfy the law, by fulfilling the law one consummates a deeper relationship with the Father.

Are you seeing a picture here, thus him saying not on Jot or tittle will come away from the law.

:cool:

November 22, 2009 at 12:29 am#158082

Participant

hi to all,

first to Const.in your statement i understand “that some folks ad access to the holy spirit of christ “under the law or before christ coming.
i agree with that.

now you also said if i understand it correctly that the sabath as to be observed as christian,here i disagree with you.

you also said that the new convenant as nothing to do with the old one or moses law or convenant,

so this is wath i believe;
first Jesus said he came and fullfill the law,
secondly Jesus said that not yota from the law will be taking away, this seams contredict in a sense,

it does totaly not contredict it self because Christ is talking of two different laws,
1) the law of Moses implying the ten commandements.
2) wen he talks abode that, he came to fullfill the law, this was the law of resque,to safe man from the condemnation to deth herithen from adam,now the prophetes have written abode all the things the the messaia will have to go trough ,this is so that the true believer may recognise the Christ, wath they did, in the law it is said that the one who accomplish the law will live through te law,this is wath christ came to accomplish,

regarding the law of moses ten commandement ,well someone all ready mention that for Chritians (true)walking in the spirit will free you from the law ,this does not mean that the law is abolished ,it means that the is made for the sinners,and will be applied if required,but as for christians righteousness they are not under the law because of there good deeds according to the spirit of Christ.

now as for the sabath ;the sabath in law was introdused by God to free man for one full day and in that day do not anything for themselfs
but think abode there devotion in God.

so for christians the sabath is 24/7 nite and day at the service of God trough Christ there is no more separation in your labor ,your thinking or anything else,you are totaly comitted to God,(or should be )so observing the moses sabath is reducing your comittement to God.

if anyone can prove otherwise please let me know,I be glad to improve the truth in my heart.

March 10, 2010 at 3:02 am#182733

princess of the king

Participant

Actually, Terraricca

If you study scripture the commandments are more than ten. One command is to teach your children his way. This should in no way be pushed aside.

I partake in Sabbath, hasn't hurt me yet, it has healed me more than anything.

I follow the clean and unclean foods also, hasn't hurt me, have pushed aside red meat also. If I keep going should be a vegatarian soon, just that baked fish is so hard to give up yum.

Then again, I am starting to plan my flower, vega and berry gardens, finding there is a blue potato was surprising.

I would say to ones that have not partook in Sabbath should not be so hard on ones that do, until you have tried it yourself, then give a go on an opinion.

Take Care.

March 10, 2010 at 3:24 am#182735

Participant

hi PofK

in regard to the other commandments included in the Moses law were connected to the direct worship of God,the other relates to the civil laws are always good and are included in the first and second commandment “Mt 22:37 Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
Mt 22:39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself”

i agree ,the bible does not teach to eat or not to eat this and that (NT)but stay away from the blood ,all those thing are external not internal ,our hearths should be full of godly things like godly thinking and acting and speaking.

whatever you do do it for God.

March 10, 2010 at 4:41 am#182740

Elizabeth

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 25 2009,08:01)

Here is what Jesus Teaches On The Subject.

Matthew 5:17-20(NIV) reads:

Quote

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

I take this scripture as being literal. Being that is so I do not know of “heaven and earth” disappearing. Since that is so and Jesus did not like then it follows that this teaching is binding to this day.

Then we come with this teaching of Paul which clearly appears to conflict with what Jesus teaches.

Ephesians 2:11-22(NIV) reads:

Quote

Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

So how can Paul teaching that Jesus abolished the law not conflict with Jesus teaching that he did not come to abolish the law. Hypothetically I am of the opinion that Paul is speaking figuratively to make the point that the barrier between Jews and Aliens “imposed” by the Law has been done away with.

Paul addresses this same barrier elsewhere with these words:

Galatians 2:11-12(NIV) reads:

Quote

When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group.

As you can see, Paul was faced with a group of Jews that was segregating themselves from the Gentiles. These Jews seemed to view themselves as more holy than the Gentiles because they followed Jewish traditions. From what I understand those Jews were zealous to keep the command to keep separate from the people of Canaan. Offhand it sounds like they took God’s words out of context.

kerwin

You first have to understand what Jesus meant by “until heaven and earth disappear”. Jesus was not talking about the heaven above, nor was he talking about planet earth below.
HEAVEN; is a metaphor for places of religious authority, just as heaven above is the place of “ALL” authority.
EARTH; is a metaphor for all of man-made kingdoms/governments; man-made societies; in short, everything man has created for themselves. Everything will be destroyed and made new, God's way, and Jesus Christ will build it during the millennium.
Jesus fulfilled the LAW, because “love” is the fulfilling of the law.

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

That is how Jesus fulfilled the law, he loved us to death.
And no, “heaven” and “earth”, have not disappeared yet.

Jesus did abolish the “letter” of the law, but not the intent, in fact, he magnified it. As he said in Mat. 5, where you used to commit murder to brake the law, now, all you have to have is hatred in your heart, and you're guilty of murder, etc.

The barrier that existed was, only the Jews had the law, but they were the only once that had the promise too; now that God had offered the Holy Spirit to the Gentiles also, that barrier was removed.

Georg

March 10, 2010 at 7:07 am#182749