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Gene
Reread Colossians 1, you will see that it is very clear. God through his Son created everything.
…..Who( Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were createdÂ👉 by him, and for him:
[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.ÂGod bless
Did God create all things through the Lord Jesus Christ?
The answer is “Yes” – BUT only through his finished work on the cross.
Amen!
Thank you Lord Jesus!8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him,
whose names are not written in the book of life of
the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.Rev 13:8-9 (KJV)
Proclaimer……I see you still don’t understand what the Greek word  used there means,  ( dia). Means for the reason of. Another words, the reason God created everything by himself and alone, was for the purpose of “perfected mankind” which Jesus was,  he is the prototype of what God had in mind , when he created everything buy “himself”  and alone, on this earth including all his human creation, including Jesus.
Had you truly understood the Old Testament scriptures you would have know that.  You haven’t debunked anything…Scripture has debunked you. And you never say anything about these scriptures. You simply respond with an opinion. This is why you are debunked. Scripture wins, unless you can debunk scripture or the translation. Gene, you ignore a central message of the New Testament because you have subscribed to the Ordinary Jesus Brigade doctrine.
John 6:62
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.Hebrews 1:1-2
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.Colossians 1:15-18
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.Micah 5:2
“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God/Divine.John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[ 1:14 Or the Only Begotten] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.Proclaimer you have not one scripture that shows any activity of Jesus before his birth on this earth , not so much as even one , in all the Old Testament.  Yet you and other blind guides, attribute The lord our God as doing everything through or by Jesus, and a preexisting Jesus  at that, where not so much as a single word in our Old Testament scripture even mentions it.  The only one debunked here is you and those who preach the same thing you do, imo.
Hi brother Gene, you have rightly stated that Jesus the first century was never mentioned in the Hebrew Bible nor his activity in God’s creation traceable in whole of the Old Testament. The Hellenised Greek scholars imagined and framed all those strange concepts on so called Messiah like preexistence, co-creator, savior and even God. This debunking is most common in the Christian history.
Adam………Right, while they tell us all this stuff, yet they can’t find anything in our “Main” scriptural text, which is the Old Testament that agrees with their false assumptions, and didn’t Paul tell them to compare every thing they are told with the actual scriptures, to see if they were true or not, and the only scriptures they had at that time when he said that was the Old Testement scriptures. I agree with most everything you said with exception of the Jesus not being the Messiah , I believe hectruly was the Massiah, but not the one they preach.
I believe exactly what Jesus himself said, “many shall come in my name and say I am the Christ and “DECIEVE MANY”,  WHY ? not because Jesus isn’t the Christ, but who they are preaching is a different Christ then the Christ of scriptures.
“Wide is the way that leads to destruction and “MANY” go in threat thereof”, “narrow is the way and straight is the gate that leads to life, and “FEW” there be that find it?
Peace and love to you and yours Adam……….gene
Proclaimer. THEY SAW HE ASEND UP alright, HE died and decended into a grave and rose up where he was before, where they saw him before, he died. Â
As far as him comming from above goes, “all things in and on this earth, came from above, without exception, except your false teachings, that comes from you, which you got from devieved modern “Christanity”, which they got from their teacher “the devil”. 2ths2.
Peace and love to you and yours Proclaimer………..gene
Gene
As always, we see that you are allergic to PURE WORDS FROM GOD.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, unless ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in yourselves.(John 6:53)
Gene
John.1
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANY THING MADE THAT WAS MADEÂ
WITHOUT
👉 5565
choris
kho-rece’
adverb from cwra – chora 5561; at a space, i.e. separately or apart from (often as preposition):–beside, by itself, 👉withoutÂHIM
848Â
hautou
how-too’
contracted for eautou – heautou 1438; self (in some oblique case or reflexively, relation):–her (own), (of) him(-self), his (own), of it, thee, their (own), them(-selves), they.WITHOUT HIM
HIM 👉A PERSON
THIS PERSON IS JESUS CHRIST
WITHOUT JESUS CHRIST WAS NOT ANY THING MADE THAT WAS MADE
AMEN!
Gene, Gadam is not a believer and you believe him.
Both of you do not appear to believe the New Testament.
You both do not believe who Jesus is according to the New Testament.
You are allowed to not believe by the way.
But let’s call a spade a spade.
Time to just front up and be honest.
Be done with pretence.
Proclaimer. THEY SAW HE ASEND UP alright,  HE died and decended into a grave and rose up where he was before, where they saw him before, he died.
Incorrect
This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate, and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” Jesus said these things in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.
When many of his disciples heard it, they said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?
There were complaints about the coming down from Heaven part and Jesus replied to them that what if you were to see him ascend to where he was before. See how the context proves you wrong Gene? I believe had you been there, you would have struggled with these words of Jesus in the same way as recorded here in the Book of John. You would have questioned coming down from heaven and ascending back. I know this because you complain about this today in the same way they did two thousand or so years ago.
PROCLAIMER,  NO I WOULD NOT HAVE BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE KNOWN , Jesus was sent from God who lives in heaven, I would have believed Jesus’ Father was God, even as he said our father is God also.  I would him when he said that which is from above is from God, and that included all the Prophets , who spoke the words of God to us exactly as Jesus did and does.
The only way Jesus was from heaven is in this sense, because he was the fulfilled word of God , that God prophesied through his Prophets, and he came into his “only” true existence when he was born flesh and blood on this earth , “Exactly” as we were, through the womb of a women, as scripture “clearly” shows. Â
There would be apsolutely “no point”, for Jesus to be any different then we are , the whole point of Jesus was to demonstrate that human being can become sinless and live and Exist with our Heavenly Father “EXACTLY AS JESUS DOES” .Â
What you and other here preach is a different Jesus, that is completely fifferent the the restof mamkind, you move him away from, the very reason he came into his existence as a human being. That is “exactly” what Satan wants all of us to do, create a fifferent Jesus then the rest of us, so he can cause you to think Jesus was really not exactly like the rest of mankind, but “completely” different, He was this kind of spaceman , who coame from the Pelora of the Gods and this God/god , was able to perform all these mericales, among us, “himself”, walk on water, heal everone he wanted to, create food to feed people. A perfect example of a God right?Â
But what did Jesus say about himself? , said he was a son of man around 80 times, said he could do “” nothing”, of or (from) himself. , said we could do greater works then he did, called us his brothers and sisters, said he was justvthe first of “many” . Â
What was Jesus’ focuse “all” about “himself”,  or the kingdom of God , his and our Father. Jesus was indeed food “for thought”, he taught us how we can have the “EXACT” relationship with His and Our Father , who is the “only” true God , that exists or ever will exist, to Jesus and all “true” believers. Â
Proclaimer, you as they, are unable to see how Satan, has created a completely different Jesus then the one in our scriptures, for the very purpose of causing people to lose site on their very own “POTENTIAL” , in God. Jesus is the “EXACT” , POTENTIAL, FOR “ALL” OF “MANKIND”, that God had in mind for “ALL” of his human creation. Or haven’t you ever read,Â
Eph 4:13…..“till we “ALL” come in the unity of the “faith”, and of the “knowledge”, of the Son of God, unto a, “PERFECT MAN” , UNTO THE MEASURE OF THE STATURE OF THE “FULLNESS” OF CHRIST. “
IF you understand that then you might be able to see how Satan has obscured that, by changing Jesus’ idenity , making him to appear different then we are, so we would lose , our FAITH IN GOD , as Jesus had BY CRATING A FALSE GOD, Jesus. Causing us to commit “idolatery” 2ths2.Â
Peace and love to you and yours Proclaimer…………gene
Proclaimer……That bread our fore fathers eat, “was”, sent from heaven, to our fore fathers from God.
Jesus was talking about the words he was telling us, which is the true bread of life, he was not talking about his comming into existence at all, from heaven, as you falsely preach.
You saying me and Adam agree in everything it wrong , because i do believe in Jesus as the Messiah, but i certanily don’t believe in your Modern day , christanity, decietful descriptions of Jesus which you use to aid, those false teachers of who Jesus “really is”. Â
Jesus correctly said what was going to happen, as i have quotted here many, many , times and it has happened and you are part of it, even if you don’t understand how, or in what way you are.
Peace and love to you and yours…………gene
HEAVEN IS A PLACE WHERE ARE GOD THE FATHER AND THE SON AND THE HOLY ANGELS AND THE 24 ELDERS (vour Rev.4)
BEFORE HIS INCARNATION, JESUS REIGNED IN HEAVEN OVER THE HOLY ANGELS.Gene’s view of Jesus is very similar to Islam’s view of Jesus.
Gene rejects the New Testament.
I merely have to quote it and he opposes me and that tells me everything I need to know regarding his leaven.
Berean…….everything came from heaven, including us all as well as Jesus. Your trying to make Jesuscappear different then his brothers and sisters, can’t you see thats exactly what Satan wants you to believe. Why do you think Jesus called himself a son of Man so many times for. Mankind came from God also. Jesus plainly told us not to call any man on earth our father, but he said “one is your father who is in heaven”. You people simply do not “truly”, believe what Jesus said if you did, you would believe him and what he said.Â
Everything i have quoted Jesus saying is in your bibles, but you people choose not to believe Jesus and what he actually said. Go check out what I have said Jesus said and see if i am telling the truth or not. What you believe is what your religion has taught you , not what Jesus has actually said or uou would agree with what i have written, as to what Jesus himself said. Go and show me where i have misquoted him, show it to me if you can.
Peace and love to you and yours………..gene
Proclaimer…….I am not a Moslam never was , but you are a liar, because i do believe the New Testement, it’s you false teachings about What it says i reject, your views make the man Jesus appear different the his human brothers and sister, they seperate Jesus from humanity, which is just the oppsite of what our heavenly Father had in mind . You hold to the teaching of making Jesus out to be something different then humanity, not understanding, Jesus is our example of God’s work in perfecting humanity. Jesus is a pure human being, a forerunner of what God had, and has, in mind for us all.
I have posted the exact scriptures showing that word for word, but i noticed you never even commit on what i post, driect out of our own “New Testement” scriptures, you just push them off, as nothing , ignoring them completely. Never commiting on them ever, why is that Proclaimer?
If i have posted them in error show me, but don’t give me this , “Gene don’t believe in the New Testement , crap” It is you and other trinitarians, who dosen’t believe “all” of what Jesus said in the New Testement, if the truth be known.  Go back and commit on the scriptures i have directly quoted out of the New Testement, show me where i have misquoted or misrepresented them. EVERYTHING, I have said here fits not only the New Testement, but the Old Testement scriptures also.
The only one misrepresenting the New Testement and the Old Testement here is, you and others who hold your views. You and them, create countradictions, between the New and Old Testement scriptures, thats what gives people like Adam and others, who see it such a hard time. IMO.
You to me are of the“many”, who come “preaching In Christ name and are decieving many”.  Check that out and see if that is not what Jesus said in you bible would happen. Believe me it has and is happening right here, all the time.Â
Peace and love to you and yours Proclaimer………..gene
Gene
You
“Berean…….everything came from heaven, including us all as well as Jesus. ….”
Me
Tell me where is it written in the Bible that everything came from HEAVEN?
Gene, Islam teaches that Jesus is an ordinary man who is a prophet and even a type of messiah. But they reject him being the son of God. This makes that religion antichrist. From what I can see, you agree on their description of Jesus. Not saying you are Muslim and agree with other doctrines of theirs. You need to read carefully and answer from the spirit of truth, not from emotions which are fickle.
Gene, it is real simple. They had a problem with him being the bread that came down from heaven. Jesus replied with the Son of Man ascending to where he was before. So, the bread came down, then he went back up. Further, they even saw it with their own eyes.
After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight.
Simple. But when you do not believe, you simply change the simple rendering with another interpretation where you need to add words in order to arrive at your view.
I do not need to add anything. I believe what it says and you have an issue with it. I can simply quote it verbatim and you will oppose me. Perhaps it’s hard for you to see what you are doing? Others can see though.
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