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Quote (Stu @ July 15 2009,06:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2009,10:53) Quote (Stu @ July 14 2009,07:33) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 14 2009,23:10) stu disagrees with christians
That will come as no surprise to most here!As you probably know there are 34,000+ denominations/sects of christianity, so it is also true that just about every christian disagrees with christians too!
Stuart
STUYea, and there are 22,356 Atheist who disagree too!
WJ
Atheism says only one thing, and all atheists agree on it.Stuart
What is that one thing you agree on. “believe anything as long as it excludes God”?More like there are no gods to exclude.
Most atheists I know don't tend to believe in just anything. They set very high standards for what they will adopt as their beliefs. Religious revelation just does not cut it for them.
Stuart
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2009,12:26) Quote (Stu @ July 14 2009,19:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2009,10:53) Quote (Stu @ July 14 2009,07:33) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 14 2009,23:10) stu disagrees with christians
That will come as no surprise to most here!As you probably know there are 34,000+ denominations/sects of christianity, so it is also true that just about every christian disagrees with christians too!
Stuart
STUYea, and there are 22,356 Atheist who disagree too!
WJ
Atheism says only one thing, and all atheists agree on it.Stuart
Hi STUYou missed my point. You didnt question where I got my number.
The point being where does the number for denominations come from? Or is it just some made up number to make a point!
WJ
The figure of 34,000 was estimated by David Barrett, an evangelical christian who is editor of the World Christian Encyclopedia, several years ago now. In 2004 the Gordon-Conway (protestant) Seminary revised the estimate to 39,000.Did you just make up your number? My estimate is that there must be at least about 50,000 times as many atheists globally as your figure.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 15 2009,01:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2009,12:26) Quote (Stu @ July 14 2009,19:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2009,10:53) Quote (Stu @ July 14 2009,07:33) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 14 2009,23:10) stu disagrees with christians
That will come as no surprise to most here!As you probably know there are 34,000+ denominations/sects of christianity, so it is also true that just about every christian disagrees with christians too!
Stuart
STUYea, and there are 22,356 Atheist who disagree too!
WJ
Atheism says only one thing, and all atheists agree on it.Stuart
Hi STUYou missed my point. You didnt question where I got my number.
The point being where does the number for denominations come from? Or is it just some made up number to make a point!
WJ
The figure of 34,000 was estimated by David Barrett, an evangelical christian who is editor of the World Christian Encyclopedia, several years ago now. In 2004 the Gordon-Conway (protestant) Seminary revised the estimate to 39,000.Did you just make up your number? My estimate is that there must be at least about 50,000 times as many atheists globally as your figure.
Stuart
Hi StuI cannot find any evidence that there is “39,000” denominations.
Even if you take the average of 12,000 members per denomination multiplied by 39,000 denominations based on the numbers found here..
That would be about 46 billion members!
Maybe the estimate is about 39,000 churches and not denominations.
What I do find interesting is the JW's who boast of being the only true “evangelistic” church is not even found in the top ten for growth.
Also while these polls are old I think your estimate for atheist is inflated!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2009,19:07) Quote (Stu @ July 15 2009,01:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2009,12:26) Quote (Stu @ July 14 2009,19:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2009,10:53) Quote (Stu @ July 14 2009,07:33) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 14 2009,23:10) stu disagrees with christians
That will come as no surprise to most here!As you probably know there are 34,000+ denominations/sects of christianity, so it is also true that just about every christian disagrees with christians too!
Stuart
STUYea, and there are 22,356 Atheist who disagree too!
WJ
Atheism says only one thing, and all atheists agree on it.Stuart
Hi STUYou missed my point. You didnt question where I got my number.
The point being where does the number for denominations come from? Or is it just some made up number to make a point!
WJ
The figure of 34,000 was estimated by David Barrett, an evangelical christian who is editor of the World Christian Encyclopedia, several years ago now. In 2004 the Gordon-Conway (protestant) Seminary revised the estimate to 39,000.Did you just make up your number? My estimate is that there must be at least about 50,000 times as many atheists globally as your figure.
Stuart
Hi StuI cannot find any evidence that there is “39,000” denominations.
Even if you take the average of 12,000 members per denomination multiplied by 39,000 denominations based on the numbers found here..
That would be about 46 billion members!
Maybe the estimate is about 39,000 churches and not denominations.
What I do find interesting is the JW's who boast of being the only true “evangelistic” church is not even found in the top ten for growth.
Also while these polls are old I think your estimate for atheist is inflated!
WJ
You are really just proving the bigger point by being a christian that disagrees with another christian about how many contradictory forms of christianity there are!Would you like to line up your maths for us on the subject of atheists?
You will have to say if you include only those who specifically call themselves that, or also those whose lives are led with no consideration for gods of any kind. You are looking at a minimum of 25% for 'Western' populations, and as those people tend to live in countries where they are at liberty to state their ridicule for gods you could fairly use that as an indication of the under-representation of atheism in the statistics of countries where they do persecute those who do not believe in the local religion (like the US, for example).
6 billion x 0.25 = 1.5 billion atheists. Can you refine that any?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 16 2009,21:43) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2009,19:07) Quote (Stu @ July 15 2009,01:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2009,12:26) Quote (Stu @ July 14 2009,19:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2009,10:53) Quote (Stu @ July 14 2009,07:33) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 14 2009,23:10) stu disagrees with christians
That will come as no surprise to most here!As you probably know there are 34,000+ denominations/sects of christianity, so it is also true that just about every christian disagrees with christians too!
Stuart
STUYea, and there are 22,356 Atheist who disagree too!
WJ
Atheism says only one thing, and all atheists agree on it.Stuart
Hi STUYou missed my point. You didnt question where I got my number.
The point being where does the number for denominations come from? Or is it just some made up number to make a point!
WJ
The figure of 34,000 was estimated by David Barrett, an evangelical christian who is editor of the World Christian Encyclopedia, several years ago now. In 2004 the Gordon-Conway (protestant) Seminary revised the estimate to 39,000.Did you just make up your number? My estimate is that there must be at least about 50,000 times as many atheists globally as your figure.
Stuart
Hi StuI cannot find any evidence that there is “39,000” denominations.
Even if you take the average of 12,000 members per denomination multiplied by 39,000 denominations based on the numbers found here..
That would be about 46 billion members!
Maybe the estimate is about 39,000 churches and not denominations.
What I do find interesting is the JW's who boast of being the only true “evangelistic” church is not even found in the top ten for growth.
Also while these polls are old I think your estimate for atheist is inflated!
WJ
You are really just proving the bigger point by being a christian that disagrees with another christian about how many contradictory forms of christianity there are!Would you like to line up your maths for us on the subject of atheists?
You will have to say if you include only those who specifically call themselves that, or also those whose lives are led with no consideration for gods of any kind. You are looking at a minimum of 25% for 'Western' populations, and as those people tend to live in countries where they are at liberty to state their ridicule for gods you could fairly use that as an indication of the under-representation of atheism in the statistics of countries where they do persecute those who do not believe in the local religion (like the US, for example).
6 billion x 0.25 = 1.5 billion atheists. Can you refine that any?
Stuart
i would recomend getting the voice of the marters newsletter to see how people are suffering for Christ no mater what the denomination but divisions are not goodQuote (Stu @ July 11 2009,09:05) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 11 2009,02:56) so stu do you discredit the bible?
The bible is historical fiction. Jerusalem is real; giants, angels, a global flood and talking snakes are not.Stuart
And you know this to be true, HOW?Quote (Stu @ July 14 2009,13:14) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 14 2009,09:34) stu do you think christians are wrong?
It depends what they say. If they say that they believe Jesus really existed and that he taught kindness and forgiveness, then I think they are right.If on the other hand they say that Jesus was without sin yet hypocritically refused to cast the first stone himself, and that actually Saul of Tarsus was right, that Jesus would have condemned homosexuals and adulterers to death, then I think they are wrong.
Stuart
And just where did Saul of Tatsus make any such silly statement?Jesus did not come to judge, but to save.
And Paul said nothing differently about Jesus.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2009,10:53) Quote (Stu @ July 14 2009,07:33) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 14 2009,23:10) stu disagrees with christians
That will come as no surprise to most here!As you probably know there are 34,000+ denominations/sects of christianity, so it is also true that just about every christian disagrees with christians too!
Stuart
STUYea, and there are 22,356 Atheist who disagree too!
WJ
Sorry to be the one to inform you WJ, but one of those Athiests died, leaving only 23,355, and one of them is very sick.Quote (Stu @ July 15 2009,11:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2009,10:53) Quote (Stu @ July 14 2009,07:33) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 14 2009,23:10) stu disagrees with christians
That will come as no surprise to most here!As you probably know there are 34,000+ denominations/sects of christianity, so it is also true that just about every christian disagrees with christians too!
Stuart
STUYea, and there are 22,356 Atheist who disagree too!
WJ
Atheism says only one thing, and all atheists agree on it.Stuart
Oh, that is not true at all.Some Athiests I know personally say “there is no God and I can prove it.”
Some Athiests saay “There is no God.”
Some Athiests claim to believe the same as the Agnostics, but deny being agnostics.
And some Athiests just make claims against organized religion.
I even know one Athiest who claims there is no God, then turns around and claims disasters are “acts of God.”
I knew one Athiest in high school who claimed to be an Athiest because “God made me this way.”
Quote (Stu @ July 15 2009,16:55) More like there are no gods to exclude. Most atheists I know don't tend to believe in just anything. They set very high standards for what they will adopt as their beliefs. Religious revelation just does not cut it for them.
Stuart
That doesn't makes sense.“There is no God” IS a religious revelation.
Quote (Paladin @ July 20 2009,01:03) Quote (Stu @ July 15 2009,11:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2009,10:53) Quote (Stu @ July 14 2009,07:33) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 14 2009,23:10) stu disagrees with christians
That will come as no surprise to most here!As you probably know there are 34,000+ denominations/sects of christianity, so it is also true that just about every christian disagrees with christians too!
Stuart
STUYea, and there are 22,356 Atheist who disagree too!
WJ
Atheism says only one thing, and all atheists agree on it.Stuart
Oh, that is not true at all.Some Athiests I know personally say “there is no God and I can prove it.”
Some Athiests saay “There is no God.”
Some Athiests claim to believe the same as the Agnostics, but deny being agnostics.
And some Athiests just make claims against organized religion.
I even know one Athiest who claims there is no God, then turns around and claims disasters are “acts of God.”
I knew one Athiest in high school who claimed to be an Athiest because “God made me this way.”
I don't know any atheist who claims he can prove there is no god.I think you will find pretty much all those statements contain “no god”, except the last one, which is an ironic dig at fundies.
In any case the dictionary is pretty clear. Atheists think for one reason or another that there are no gods. That is the definition.
What is the definition of christian? What one thing do they all hold in common?
Stuart
Quote (Paladin @ July 20 2009,00:57) Quote (Stu @ July 14 2009,13:14) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 14 2009,09:34) stu do you think christians are wrong?
It depends what they say. If they say that they believe Jesus really existed and that he taught kindness and forgiveness, then I think they are right.If on the other hand they say that Jesus was without sin yet hypocritically refused to cast the first stone himself, and that actually Saul of Tarsus was right, that Jesus would have condemned homosexuals and adulterers to death, then I think they are wrong.
Stuart
And just where did Saul of Tatsus make any such silly statement?Jesus did not come to judge, but to save.
And Paul said nothing differently about Jesus.
Starting at Romans 1:26, Paul tells us that homosexuals are worthy of death.If Paul wrote Timothy then he also tells us that it is all good for teaching, including the OT condemnations of homosexuality. (Which, by the way, is incitement to murder and is therefore illegal).
Does Jesus agree anywhere with Paul on this subject?
Stuart
Quote (Paladin @ July 20 2009,01:04) Quote (Stu @ July 15 2009,16:55) More like there are no gods to exclude. Most atheists I know don't tend to believe in just anything. They set very high standards for what they will adopt as their beliefs. Religious revelation just does not cut it for them.
Stuart
That doesn't makes sense.“There is no God” IS a religious revelation.
How on earth do you justify that?Stuart
Quote (Paladin @ July 20 2009,00:53) Quote (Stu @ July 11 2009,09:05) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 11 2009,02:56) so stu do you discredit the bible?
The bible is historical fiction. Jerusalem is real; giants, angels, a global flood and talking snakes are not.Stuart
And you know this to be true, HOW?
Because no one has ever been able to produce a talking snake, an angel, a giant (not even the remains of a giant!), or any evidence for a global flood. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.So it is not me with the burden of proof here. Are you happy to accept my assertion that Jerusalem exists, or would you like me to provide evidence?
Stuart
WJ not sure what relevance your US-based stats has to world figures.
My dictionary just has 'denomination' meaning a 'church or religious sect', so whatever disagreeing, stubborn group of christians you want to consider, it would seem to be covered by the term 'denomination', of which 39,000 have apparently been counted, by christians.
Stuart
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