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Quote When we see the true Church by revelation of God, we then can realise that which is counterfeit and man-made. The Church is Christ's Body. It is not a particular denomination or council of denominations. I have trouble reconciling the thought that Christ's body is made up of individuals from non-denominationalism AND individuals in denominations with this scripture:
1 Cor. 1:10: “Now I exhort you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that you should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among you, but that you may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.”
(Such unity does not exist among the varied churches of Christendom.)Quote To david, Quote (david @ Mar. 30 2006,00:38)
'If Jesus were on earth today, would he be a baptist, a Muslim, a Methodist….or would he simply be a Christian?'He would be the son of God and the Messiah.
He could not be a follower of Christ as he is the Christ.
Yes of course. As I said, 'It made me laugh.' Christ can't be a Christian (follower of Christ), but that's what this other non-denominational website was saying.
Heb. 10:24, 25: “Let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you behold the day drawing near.”
Quote Amen,
Men are still like Peter wanting to build buildings to celebrate their faith. They want the security of likeminded people to surround them more than they are willing to test the beliefs those others promote.“They want the security of likeminded people to surround them…”
Or do they want to “encourage one another,” as the Bible says, “not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, AS SOME HAVE THE CUSTOM.”I don't remember putting that smiley face in there. hmmm. Smiley faces are fun. I should use them more.
david,
It says that there shouldn't be divisions, it doesn't say that there will never be divisions.
Christ's Body is made up of individuals from all over the earth. Some maybe members of the Catholics, Baptists, Friday Night Bingo, the local library, this website, and other organisations.
But these organisations may assist with a particular mission or service, but by definition, they are not the Church per se, although the Church can be inside. E.g.,
Romans 16:5
Greet also the church that meets at their house. Greet my dear friend Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia.So the Church or part of the Church met in Priscilla and Aquila's house. Of course a spiritual man would see that the Church was not the house, but the people.
God's Spirit transcends all physical things. That includes denominations and even our physical bodies. In other words we are one, not by measurement of anything physical like a denomination or man-made organisation. No we are one in God's Spirit. Christ's brothers are those who are filled with the Spirit of God, no matter where they are.
Carnal men want to put everything into a labelled box. Catholic, Jehovah Witness… But you cannot label the Spirit of God in this manner. You cannot say that the Spirit of God setup this denomination exclusively to spread the good news. No, the Spirit of God moves individual people and unites us as one family/body.
Quote So the Church or part of the Church met in Priscilla and Aquila's house. Of course a spirtual man would see that the Church was not the house, but the people.
I understand, as I've said frequently, that the “church” as the word that has been translated from the Bible means the people. Unfortunately, that's not what people think of when they use the word “church.”
Perhaps, we should start using the word “congregation.”Quote Christ's Body is made up of individuals from all over the earth. Some maybe members of the Catholics, Baptists, Friday Night Bingo, the local library, this website, and other organisations.
So Christ's body stands divided? Divided in beliefs, in standards of conduct, etc. Divided in whether God is a trinity, in whether we should use God's name, in whether God tortures people in hellfire, etc.If Christ's body is divided, then it will fall.
“Every kingdom divided against itself comes to desolation, and a house [divided] against itself falls.”–Jesus
Quote . No we are one in God's Spirit. Christ's brothers are those who are filled with the Spirit of God, no matter where they are. One with God's spirit, yet divided over what is truth?
JOHN 4:23-24
“Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit AND TRUTH, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.””JOHN 8:31-32
“And so Jesus went on to say to the Jews that had believed him: “IF YOU REMAIN IN MY WORD, YOU ARE REALLY MY DISCIPLES, and YOU will know the TRUTH, and the truth will set YOU free.””To really be Jesus followers, his disciples, we must remain in his word. Some believe that Jesus teaches that God is a trinity and some don't. Are both groups 'remaining in his word?'
Hi t8.
When I asked if Nick was actually back, his response was:Quote Hi David,
Yes I am well and back at work defending the bible against the denomination promotors.I wonder if he said this in light of the question of this thread, or if he really consideres that his “work,” to defend the Bible against “the denomination promotors.”
If that is his aim, I wonder if advertising denominations will help or hinder his work. I'm still somewhat on the fence on this.Hi david,
“No man can serve two masters.”Who is your master?
If it is Christ then what have you found lacking in the Jehovahs Witness teachings that you would want to put right in serving your master?
Hi Nick
“No man can serve two masters.”Who is your master?
If it is Christ, then follow him Nick.
“IF YOU REMAIN IN MY WORD, YOU ARE REALLY MY DISCIPLES,”
Nick, to really be Jesus followers, we must remain in his word or obey his teachings.
Nick, either Jesus taught that God tortures people in hellfire OR he didn't.
To really be his disciples, we must “remain in his word.”So which one of you are remaining in his word–you (who believes he does) OR t8 (who believes he doesn't)? ? ?
My point is that there is as great a diversity among the haters of denominations as there are among the denominations.
The soul doctrine holding your “group” of anit-denominationalism together is your hatred of denominations. Isn't that kind of a flimsy common belief?
I understand you dislike of worldly denominations. It's justified for the most part.
The tithing, t8 keeps mentioning. The hypocrasy, the high, proud clergy class, etc. Here are some more things that bother me:
(1) From most of their Bible translations they have removed the name of the true God thousands of times.
(2) The Trinity doctrine, their concept of God himself, is borrowed from pagan sources and was developed in its present form centuries after Bible writing was completed.
(3) Their belief in immortality of the human soul as the basis for continued life is not taken from the Bible; it has roots in ancient Babylon.
(4) The theme of Jesus’ preaching was the Kingdom of God, and he sent his disciples out to talk personally to others about it; but the churches today seldom mention that Kingdom and their members are not doing the work of preaching “this good news of the kingdom.” (Matt. 24:14) (5) Jesus said that his true followers could be readily identified by their self-sacrificing love for one another. Is that true of the religions of Christendom when the nations go to war?
(6) The Bible says that Christ’s disciples would be no part of the world, and it warns that whoever wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God; but the churches of Christendom and their members are deeply involved in the political affairs of the nations. (Jas. 4:4)Nick, are you saying that people can believe all the wrong things, (or it really doesn't matter what they believe) as long as they don't belong to a denomination?
Because that sounds like something Satan would say. Doesn't it?
Hi david,
Why does everything you write seem to point to the only true way that you think only you have found? Everything seems to be self justifying cant. I am not antidenominational except to the extent that I see people trusting in them for their salvation. It is such a useless exercise. They cannot save anyone and they are probably the biggest obstacle in men being saved because of the complacency and self sufficiency and reliance on personal works they engender.Since this particular forum was actually initiated to ask about forum suggestions, etc. Being a newbie but having visited many other Christian sights, I have to say your's is the best, and I thank you for running this sight, and thanks to all those who share, of their research, their time, their understanding, very enlightening and educational. Excellent dialogue! I would like more people to respond more often and I would like to see you get a greater www audience but, maybe that is what makes it nice, because I haven't shared in forums before, I'm still learning.
Question: Is their anything that all agree on? May be we should all go out and start his/her own denomination. How can a body function if the hand doesn't want to do what the forearm believes.
If we are not to have any kind of order then we are not of the body of Christ. Yes David is correct in that the first century church in the bible had order.
In Acts chapter fifteen they came together discussed the issue and came to an conclusion.We say that the denominations are wrong, doctrines of men. Can't we gather the truth and then follow the truth. Other wise how are we better. We are but a clanging symbol we have their attention but have nothing to say as one!
I'm the church, I agree. The kingdom of heaven is in me, I agree. I believe in sprinkling of water for baptizm, I do not agree. I believe the bread and wine is actually the body and blood of Christ, I do not agree. ETC.
In other words lets finally seperate ourselves from the demoninations. Lets say what we believe.
1Co 14:33 for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
1Co 14:40 But let all things be done decently and in order.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming
Tit 1:4 to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.
Tit 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that were wanting, and appoint elders in every city, as I gave thee charge;
Tit 1:6 if any man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having children that believe, who are not accused of riot or unruly.
Tit 1:7 For the bishop must be blameless, as God's steward; not self-willed, not soon angry, no brawler, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre;What are our beliefs on the Trinty? Someone make a decision.
What does the majority believe.
I'll start it off. I believe that God is the Father + Son + their Spirit . Two in one Spirit. Soon I believe their will be many in one Spirit.
I don't want to know if I'm right or wrong. I want to know what you believe. Then come together and PRAY as one!Then may be we could come to some conclusion and move on.
Wasn't that Jesus' prayer that we HIs body become one (John 17:11). How are we one if we can't agree on anything.
I wanted to let denominations in because I thought we might be able to spread some truth and clear things up for those who are in question of their denomination. And may be gain a brother or sister.
Is that wrong?
Quote (sandra @ Mar. 30 2006,23:47) Since this particular forum was actually initiated to ask about forum suggestions, etc. Being a newbie but having visited many other Christian sights, I have to say your's is the best, and I thank you for running this sight, and thanks to all those who share, of their research, their time, their understanding, very enlightening and educational. Excellent dialogue! I would like more people to respond more often and I would like to see you get a greater www audience but, maybe that is what makes it nice, because I haven't shared in forums before, I'm still learning.
Hi Sandra,As a fellow member, I agree that it's the nicest site. I like everyone on here even when we disagree, even Isaiah 1:18… (hope you're reading this Is)! I like the caliber of biblical information that is presented, that most of us make the effort to rely on scripture as our sole text for interpreting scripture. I found it quiet and slow too at first but have come to appreciate that as it gives me time to keep up and respond at my own pace without getting too buried behind. Of course, that's just my schedule and pace and I respect others right to want a more rapid exchange.
Hi kenrch & others,
I think the first thing each of us need to do is ask God what he wants and move from there. Yes many of us seem to be united in our understanding of scripture and many seem to understand that the Church is the Body of Christ and that denominations are really divisions.
However one thing we need to be wary of is starting a new denomination. We need to appreciate that God's people can be found in denominations and outside too. We are here not to start a new denomination but to work toward unity of the Body. The unity we speak of is not compromise for the sake of agreement but unity based on love and truth.
Unity of the brethren must be based on principles like God is one, that he has a son, (Jesus Christ) and that we are one with God, Christ, and each other in his Spirit.
I think it is good to keep searching the scriptures in order to teach and build up the Body. We can also encourage each other to do the works of the Kingdom. That is what this website was originally for, but sort of came under scrutiny/attack by those who decided to engage in debate over doctrines that were taught here.
Perhaps a new category could be setup where suggestions could be discussed regarding extending the Kingdom of God? Fulfilling needs that we can see, etc.
But before that is done, perhaps we should discuss the things that are doctrinally/scriptually important as you hinted at. Subjects should include the gospel, salvation, God, his son, baptisms, repentance, etc.
What do others think?
Quote (kenrch @ Mar. 31 2006,01:13) Question: Is their anything that all agree on? May be we should all go out and start his/her own denomination. How can a body function if the hand doesn't want to do what the forearm believes. If we are not to have any kind of order then we are not of the body of Christ. Yes David is correct in that the first century church in the bible had order.
In Acts chapter fifteen they came together discussed the issue and came to an conclusion.We say that the denominations are wrong, doctrines of men. Can't we gather the truth and then follow the truth. Other wise how are we better. We are but a clanging symbol we have their attention but have nothing to say as one!
I'm the church, I agree. The kingdom of heaven is in me, I agree. I believe in sprinkling of water for baptizm, I do not agree. I believe the bread and wine is actually the body and blood of Christ, I do not agree. ETC.
In other words lets finally seperate ourselves from the demoninations. Lets say what we believe.
1Co 14:33 for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
1Co 14:40 But let all things be done decently and in order.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming
Tit 1:4 to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.
Tit 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that were wanting, and appoint elders in every city, as I gave thee charge;
Tit 1:6 if any man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having children that believe, who are not accused of riot or unruly.
Tit 1:7 For the bishop must be blameless, as God's steward; not self-willed, not soon angry, no brawler, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre;What are our beliefs on the Trinty? Someone make a decision.
What does the majority believe.
I'll start it off. I believe that God is the Father + Son + their Spirit . Two in one Spirit. Soon I believe their will be many in one Spirit.
I don't want to know if I'm right or wrong. I want to know what you believe. Then come together and PRAY as one!Then may be we could come to some conclusion and move on.
Wasn't that Jesus' prayer that we HIs body become one (John 17:11). How are we one if we can't agree on anything.
I wanted to let denominations in because I thought we might be able to spread some truth and clear things up for those who are in question of their denomination. And may be gain a brother or sister.
Is that wrong?
Hi Ken,Loved your post and zealousness.
So to answer your question, I Worship my Father and God through Christ Jesus the Son of God, who happens to be my first born brother [and lord] and am one in spirit with him in our Father.
I do not believe in sprinkling of water for baptism; would have preferred a living body of water rather than an artificial pool or tub, but it was hard to come by that in NYC though I must confess the East and Hudson Rivers are there but no one was thinking of it at the time.
Communion, I partake to remember what Christ did as a member of his body. I do not see it as the literal flesh and blood but its symbolism is just as meaningful to me and I do not take it lightly. I wasn't sure whether kids should partake but have since a couple of years ago become convinced that they should, based on the original passover in Egypt. When they are old enough to ask why, we explain it to them.
Is that helpful?
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 31 2006,03:17) Hi kenrch & others, I think the first thing each of us need to do is ask God what he wants and move from there. Yes many of us seem to be united in our understanding of scripture and many seem to understand that the Church is the Body of Christ and that denominations are really divisions.
However one thing we need to be wary of is starting a new denomination. We need to appreciate that God's people can be found in denominations and outside too. We are here not to start a new denomination but to work toward unity of the Body. The unity we speak of is not compromise for the sake of agreement but unity based on love and truth.
Unity of the brethren must be based on principles like God is one, that he has a son, (Jesus Christ) and that we are one with God, Christ, and each other in his Spirit.
I think it is good to keep searching the scriptures in order to teach and build up the Body. We can also encourage each other to do the works of the Kingdom. That is what this website was originally for, but sort of came under scrutiny/attack by those who decided to engage in debate over doctrines that were taught here.
Perhaps a new category could be setup where suggestions could be discussed regarding extending the Kingdom of God? Fulfilling needs that we can see, etc.
But before that is done, perhaps we should discuss the things that are doctrinally/scriptually important as you hinted at. Subjects should include the gospel, salvation, God, his son, baptisms, repentance, etc.
What do others think?
Good Idea t8Quote (t8 @ Mar. 31 2006,03:17) Hi kenrch & others, I think the first thing each of us need to do is ask God what he wants and move from there. Yes many of us seem to be united in our understanding of scripture and many seem to understand that the Church is the Body of Christ and that denominations are really divisions.
However one thing we need to be wary of is starting a new denomination. We need to appreciate that God's people can be found in denominations and outside too. We are here not to start a new denomination but to work toward unity of the Body. The unity we speak of is not compromise for the sake of agreement but unity based on love and truth.
Unity of the brethren must be based on principles like God is one, that he has a son, (Jesus Christ) and that we are one with God, Christ, and each other in his Spirit.
I think it is good to keep searching the scriptures in order to teach and build up the Body. We can also encourage each other to do the works of the Kingdom. That is what this website was originally for, but sort of came under scrutiny/attack by those who decided to engage in debate over doctrines that were taught here.
Perhaps a new category could be setup where suggestions could be discussed regarding extending the Kingdom of God? Fulfilling needs that we can see, etc.
But before that is done, perhaps we should discuss the things that are doctrinally/scriptually important as you hinted at. Subjects should include the gospel, salvation, God, his son, baptisms, repentance, etc.
What do others think?
I think it would be a great idea. For years I've prayed that I would please God, but I still struggle with knowing what to do to accomplish it.Perhaps in the same way I've found that participating in this forum has helped me to better understand what it is I believe. Discussing how to further the Kingdom would encourage me to better understand what it is God is calling me to do.
I am with you, guys. Seeking Truth, I felt the same way a while back and still do! Let's get going already!
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