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Jodi,
so let me get this straight,Jodi is saying that Satan/devil is an adjetive for another being?
couldnt i say the same thing about God?God is a title. It means the superme being.
yet my name means “The Lord is God” or “Jehovah is God”
Anyways besides the point.
John 8:43, Genesis 4:6> your conclusion is wrong. Cain desendants were WIPED OUT during the flood. and noah was from the line of Seth. so therefore the scripture speaks of another.
Jude 1:11- this has nothing to do with the father of lies. so POINTLESS
James 1:14 – pointless i already dropped cain.
Luke 4: 1- Jesus was fasting. so therefore he didnt feel hunger. he was spiritualy connected. he didnt even feel tempted.
My Cliam: Jesus said we shall not eat by bread alone but by the word of God, this is Jesus response to the DEVIL. Matthew 4:4-But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.Ezekial 2:8 But thou, son of man, hear what I say unto thee; Be not thou rebellious like that rebellious house: open thy mouth, and eat that I give thee.
9And when I looked, behold, an hand was sent unto me; and, lo, a roll of a book was therein;
10And he spread it before me; and it was written within and without: and there was written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe.Mark 7:21, 1 John 3:12, also pointless, Jesus heart want defiled. Cain is already dropped.
Hi Jodi,
Satan means adversary and the adversary is one of them.
His rule is different from God's as he works through adversaries
His adversary spirits enter men and dwell in them making them unclean.Jodi,
Quote You don't know me, or my life and how I live it. Nor do you have a clue as to my personal relationship that I have with YHWH. Who said I was judging you? I have no idea who you are, how you live, whatever, just as you dont with me.
Quote You post a scripture that talks about standing up against the devil, but you imply at the same time that we should not focus long enough on scripture to figure out what the devil means?? How can you stand up against the devil if you don't know his identity?
Some people overfocus, growing up, Satan apparently was in our life, in our rooms, in the music, even after death he will be there torturing people with all his demons. This kind of thing terrified people! So now im over it, I see posts such as yours and think, ok, here goes another Satan preacher? Sorry, I never actually read your post so I dont know? Ok I see you meant different.
Quote Our FOCUS should be on studying ALL scriptures, working hard to understand true meaning, not on being some God groupie with a stoned mind that goes around parroting “praise God, praise God, praise God, praise God………” ok. Fair enough. So from what I gather, you believe Satan is a state of mind or something?
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 28 2010,02:53) Quote (Ed J @ June 27 2010,22:04) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 26 2010,09:18) Satan is NOT a BEING PERIOD, it is a description of a being.
Hi Jodi,Does what your saying mean…
1) Job asked YHVH if he could test himself ?
2) Job then blamed YHVH for testing himself ? ?Seems 'your logic' is a bit FLAWED; huh?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed J,I will be getting into Job on this thread soon. Why don't you talk about what has been discussed so far?
Who was the adversary that disputed with the angel over the body of Moses?
Who was a murderer and a liar from the beginning that is said to be the father of Lies?
Ed J, do me a favor and don't try to figure out what you think my logic would be and then turn around and say it's flawed. That's absurd and a serious waist of time!!
Jesus called Peter adversary not because he was acting like some other being who's proper name is adversary, Jesus called Peter adversary because he was being an adversary to God, by having IN MIND THE THINGS OF MEN!
Hi Jodi,Glad to here that you will be getting into Job,
then perhaps you will answer my questions
instead of putting them off and asking me to
respond to your propositions and assertions.Instead of trying to assume who was in contention
over the body of Moses, lets try look at what is meant.
“The Body of Moses” represents “the ten commandments”. (2Cor.3:7)
The contention is: that the 10 commandments were done away with; which of course the weren't!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (SimplyForgiven @ June 28 2010,05:11) Jodi,
so let me get this straight,Jodi is saying that Satan/devil is an adjetive for another being?
couldnt i say the same thing about God?God is a title. It means the superme being.
yet my name means “The Lord is God” or “Jehovah is God”
Anyways besides the point.
John 8:43, Genesis 4:6> your conclusion is wrong. Cain desendants were WIPED OUT during the flood. and noah was from the line of Seth. so therefore the scripture speaks of another.
Jude 1:11- this has nothing to do with the father of lies. so POINTLESS
James 1:14 – pointless i already dropped cain.
Luke 4: 1- Jesus was fasting. so therefore he didnt feel hunger. he was spiritualy connected. he didnt even feel tempted.
My Cliam: Jesus said we shall not eat by bread alone but by the word of God, this is Jesus response to the DEVIL. Matthew 4:4-But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.Ezekial 2:8 But thou, son of man, hear what I say unto thee; Be not thou rebellious like that rebellious house: open thy mouth, and eat that I give thee.
9And when I looked, behold, an hand was sent unto me; and, lo, a roll of a book was therein;
10And he spread it before me; and it was written within and without: and there was written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe.Mark 7:21, 1 John 3:12, also pointless, Jesus heart want defiled. Cain is already dropped.
John 8: 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.You think my argument was asserting that the people Jesus was talking to were direct descendants of the slanderer Jesus was referring to by way of the slanderer being their great, great, great…..etc…father?
I referred to Cain as our BROTHER, so I am not sure where you got lost.
Cain was the firstborn who entered into a world where deterioration and death to the flesh was a conscious awareness, where survival was a natural instinct. He became a liar and a murderer, the father of following after fleshly desires, “father” as in being the first or author of something.
Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
This was referenced in my post because it shows how the author is using CAIN as an example for following after greed, after fleshly desires. Why use Cain, when you could just have easily chosen someone else….?…..could it have been because he was the first person born on earth and was the first person born on earth that sinned?
Satan is the English word translated from the Hebrew word phonetically saw-tawn that means in Hebrew adversary. A steep mountain I don't want to climb I could call Satan. My opponent in checkers I could call Satan. As well, the English word devil, means slanderer in Greek, it is neither a proper name nor does it belong to one person. Anyone who falsely accuses or lies is a Devil!
You said, ” Luke 4: 1- Jesus was fasting. so therefore he didnt feel hunger. he was spiritualy connected. he didnt even feel tempted.”
This is what scripture tells us, and it is what I posted even highlighting in red,
1 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, turned back from the Jordan, and was brought in the Spirit to the wilderness, 2 forty days being tempted by the Devil, and he did not eat anything in those days, and they having been ended, he afterward hungered, 3 and the Devil said to him, `If Son thou art of God, speak to this stone that it may become bread.'
He was TEMPTED and he did HUNGER!!
Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses,but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Good grief, did you even bother reading the scripture you have chosen to give us your opinion on?
Quote (karmarie @ June 28 2010,09:41) Jodi, Quote You don't know me, or my life and how I live it. Nor do you have a clue as to my personal relationship that I have with YHWH. Who said I was judging you? I have no idea who you are, how you live, whatever, just as you dont with me.
Quote You post a scripture that talks about standing up against the devil, but you imply at the same time that we should not focus long enough on scripture to figure out what the devil means?? How can you stand up against the devil if you don't know his identity?
Some people overfocus, growing up, Satan apparently was in our life, in our rooms, in the music, even after death he will be there torturing people with all his demons. This kind of thing terrified people! So now im over it, I see posts such as yours and think, ok, here goes another Satan preacher? Sorry, I never actually read your post so I dont know? Ok I see you meant different.
Quote Our FOCUS should be on studying ALL scriptures, working hard to understand true meaning, not on being some God groupie with a stoned mind that goes around parroting “praise God, praise God, praise God, praise God………” ok. Fair enough. So from what I gather, you believe Satan is a state of mind or something?
Karmarie,The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 07854
Original WordWord Origin
!tXfrom (07853)
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
SatanTWOT – 2252a
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
saw-tawn' Noun Masculine
Definition1. adversary, one who withstands
1. adversary (in general – personal or national)
2. superhuman adversary
1. Satan (as noun pr)King James Word Usage – Total: 27
Satan 19, adversary 7, withstand 1===================================
God's faithful angels using the Holy Spirit are called !tX in scripture. Numbers 22:22, 22:32However, the word fallen angel does not exist in the bible, so it is a FACT that you do not find any fallen angels being called !tX in scripture.
Humans in scripture are also directly called !tX.
The English word Satan defined as a fallen angel is IMO a COMPLETE LIE.
I believe Young Literals Translation is right in not using the word Satan in the bible at all, it truly has no place.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 28 2010,21:58) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 28 2010,05:11) Jodi,
so let me get this straight,Jodi is saying that Satan/devil is an adjetive for another being?
couldnt i say the same thing about God?God is a title. It means the superme being.
yet my name means “The Lord is God” or “Jehovah is God”
Anyways besides the point.
John 8:43, Genesis 4:6> your conclusion is wrong. Cain desendants were WIPED OUT during the flood. and noah was from the line of Seth. so therefore the scripture speaks of another.
Jude 1:11- this has nothing to do with the father of lies. so POINTLESS
James 1:14 – pointless i already dropped cain.
Luke 4: 1- Jesus was fasting. so therefore he didnt feel hunger. he was spiritualy connected. he didnt even feel tempted.
My Cliam: Jesus said we shall not eat by bread alone but by the word of God, this is Jesus response to the DEVIL. Matthew 4:4-But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.Ezekial 2:8 But thou, son of man, hear what I say unto thee; Be not thou rebellious like that rebellious house: open thy mouth, and eat that I give thee.
9And when I looked, behold, an hand was sent unto me; and, lo, a roll of a book was therein;
10And he spread it before me; and it was written within and without: and there was written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe.Mark 7:21, 1 John 3:12, also pointless, Jesus heart want defiled. Cain is already dropped.
John 8: 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.You think my argument was asserting that the people Jesus was talking to were direct descendants of the slanderer Jesus was referring to by way of the slanderer being their great, great, great…..etc…father?
I referred to Cain as our BROTHER, so I am not sure where you got lost.
Cain was the firstborn who entered into a world where deterioration and death to the flesh was a conscious awareness, where survival was a natural instinct. He became a liar and a murderer, the father of following after fleshly desires, “father” as in being the first or author of something.
Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
This was referenced in my post because it shows how the author is using CAIN as an example for following after greed, after fleshly desires. Why use Cain, when you could just have easily chosen someone else….?…..could it have been because he was the first person born on earth and was the first person born on earth that sinned?
Satan is the English word translated from the Hebrew word phonetically saw-tawn that means in Hebrew adversary. A steep mountain I don't want to climb I could call Satan. My opponent in checkers I could call Satan. As well, the English word devil, means slanderer in Greek, it is neither a proper name nor does it belong to one person. Anyone who falsely accuses or lies is a Devil!
You said, ” Luke 4: 1- Jesus was fasting. so therefore he didnt feel hunger. he was spiritualy connected. he didnt even feel tempted.”
This is what scripture tells us, and it is what I posted even highlighting in red,
1 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, turned back from the Jordan, and was brought in the Spirit to the wilderness, 2 forty days being tempted by the Devil, and he did not eat anything in those days, and they having been ended, he afterward hungered, 3 and the Devil said to him, `If Son thou art of God, speak to this stone that it may become bread.'
He was TEMPTED and he did HUNGER!!
Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses,but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Good grief, did you even bother reading the scripture you have chosen to give us your opinion on?
Jodi, i was answering your scripture genius.Im saying that Jesus was not talking about Cain as the father of lies.
Speaking of lying.
Are you losing it Jodi?
You Said:Quote Cain sinned out of HIS OWN RESOURCES!!……from HIS OWN DESIRES! The Father of lies is CAIN.
BUT NOW YOUR SAYING:Quote I referred to Cain as our BROTHER, so I am not sure where you got lost. Are you lying now Jodi? are you changing your arguement to fit your ideals. They were both orginally Highlighted.
ANYWAYS:
>Its clear that Cain is not the Father of lies nor of mankind.
>He was not the first to sin,
>Adam and Eve were the First,
>Cain was the first murdererQuote This was referenced in my post because it shows how the author is using CAIN as an example for following after greed, after fleshly desires. Why use Cain, when you could just have easily chosen someone else….?…..could it have been because he was the first person born on earth and was the first person born on earth that sinned? lol jodi, This doesnt make any sense becuase it doesnt tie back to John 8: 42. Why? because its clear that he doesnt speak of Cain.
here is someone else that God warns us about.
Malachi 1:3
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.abuot Luke 4:1
My assertion was correct, while he was fasting he was not tempted, and he was not hungry. that was my point.
He was only tempted afterwards and did get hungry.
I thought u said he was being tempted WHILE fasting.
which didnt make sense to me.Anyways,
The Devil had knowledge of the Word, and his temptation, used the WORD against Jesus,
This is a intellect being that had the ability to have knowlege about the word, and used it to tempt Jesus,
To say that this battle was in Jesus mind is wrong why because sin starts in the mind.James 1:13-Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14But every man is tempted, when he is dra
wn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.The choice was presented Jesus did have to think twice, because he had the holy sciptures in his heart, and answered back in that same manner.
This same intellect ASK JESUS to BOW DOWN TO HIM, and WORSHIP HIM,
Worshipping comes from one rendering to another, which means it had to be two people, not Jesus by himself.Anyways,
If you want to continue with your conjectures is fine,
but doesnt mean that they are biblical truth.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 29 2010,05:09) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 28 2010,21:58) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 28 2010,05:11) Jodi,
so let me get this straight,Jodi is saying that Satan/devil is an adjetive for another being?
couldnt i say the same thing about God?God is a title. It means the superme being.
yet my name means “The Lord is God” or “Jehovah is God”
Anyways besides the point.
John 8:43, Genesis 4:6> your conclusion is wrong. Cain desendants were WIPED OUT during the flood. and noah was from the line of Seth. so therefore the scripture speaks of another.
Jude 1:11- this has nothing to do with the father of lies. so POINTLESS
James 1:14 – pointless i already dropped cain.
Luke 4: 1- Jesus was fasting. so therefore he didnt feel hunger. he was spiritualy connected. he didnt even feel tempted.
My Cliam: Jesus said we shall not eat by bread alone but by the word of God, this is Jesus response to the DEVIL. Matthew 4:4-But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.Ezekial 2:8 But thou, son of man, hear what I say unto thee; Be not thou rebellious like that rebellious house: open thy mouth, and eat that I give thee.
9And when I looked, behold, an hand was sent unto me; and, lo, a roll of a book was therein;
10And he spread it before me; and it was written within and without: and there was written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe.Mark 7:21, 1 John 3:12, also pointless, Jesus heart want defiled. Cain is already dropped.
John 8: 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.You think my argument was asserting that the people Jesus was talking to were direct descendants of the slanderer Jesus was referring to by way of the slanderer being their great, great, great…..etc…father?
I referred to Cain as our BROTHER, so I am not sure where you got lost.
Cain was the firstborn who entered into a world where deterioration and death to the flesh was a conscious awareness, where survival was a natural instinct. He became a liar and a murderer, the father of following after fleshly desires, “father” as in being the first or author of something.
Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
This was referenced in my post because it shows how the author is using CAIN as an example for following after greed, after fleshly desires. Why use Cain, when you could just have easily chosen someone else….?…..could it have been because he was the first person born on earth and was the first person born on earth that sinned?
Satan is the English word translated from the Hebrew word phonetically saw-tawn that means in Hebrew adversary. A steep mountain I don't want to climb I could call Satan. My opponent in checkers I could call Satan. As well, the English word devil, means slanderer in Greek, it is neither a proper name nor does it belong to one person. Anyone who falsely accuses or lies is a Devil!
You said, ” Luke 4: 1- Jesus was fasting. so therefore he didnt feel hunger. he was spiritualy connected. he didnt even feel tempted.”
This is what scripture tells us, and it is what I posted even highlighting in red,
1 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, turned back from the Jordan, and was brought in the Spirit to the wilderness, 2 forty days being tempted by the Devil, and he did not eat anything in those days, and they having been ended, he afterward hungered, 3 and the Devil said to him, `If Son thou art of God, speak to this stone that it may become bread.'
He was TEMPTED and he did HUNGER!!
Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses,but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Good grief, did you even bother reading the scripture you have chosen to give us your opinion on?
Jodi, i was answering your scripture genius.Im saying that Jesus was not talking about Cain as the father of lies.
Speaking of lying.
Are you losing it Jodi?
You Said:Quote Cain sinned out of HIS OWN RESOURCES!!……from HIS OWN DESIRES! The Father of lies is CAIN.
BUT NOW YOUR SAYING:Quote I referred to Cain as our BROTHER, so I am not sure where you got lost. Are you lying now Jodi? are you changing your arguement to fit your ideals. They were both orginally Highlighted.
ANYWAYS:
>Its clear that Cain is not the Father of lies nor of mankind.
>He was not the first to sin,
>Adam and Eve were the First,
>Cain was the first murdererQuote This was referenced in my post because it shows how the author is using CAIN as an example for following after greed, after fleshly desires. Why use Cain, when you could just have easily chosen someone else….?…..could it have been because he was the first person born on earth and was the first person born on earth that sinned? lol jodi, This doesnt make any sense becuase it doesnt tie back to John 8: 42. Why? because its clear that he doesnt speak of Cain.
here is someone else that God warns us about.
Malachi 1:3
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.abuot Luke 4:1
My assertion was correct, while he was fasting he was not tempted, and he was not hungry. that was my point.
He was only tempted afterwards and did get hungry.
I thought u said he was being tempted WHILE fasting.
which didnt make sense to me.Anyways,
The Devil had knowledge of the Word, and his temptation, used the WORD against Jesus,
This is a intellect being that had the ability to have knowlege about the word, and used it to tempt Jesus,
To say that this battle was in Jesus mind is wrong why becaus
e sin starts in the mind.James 1:13-Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.The choice was presented Jesus did have to think twice, because he had the holy sciptures in his heart, and answered back in that same manner.
This same intellect ASK JESUS to BOW DOWN TO HIM, and WORSHIP HIM,
Worshipping comes from one rendering to another, which means it had to be two people, not Jesus by himself.Anyways,
If you want to continue with your conjectures is fine,
but doesnt mean that they are biblical truth.
Let me get this strait,You make a wrong assumption and I clarify so now I am a liar who is changing my story?
In my first post, as you pointed out, I highlighted both, so how does that make me a liar and changing my story?
How is it clear that Cain is not the father of lies, if he isn't then who do you believe is?
I NEVER said that Cain was the first person to sin, I said he was the first person BORN in the world that sinned. Let me put it another way, Cain is the first person born of a woman that sinned.
You said, “To say that this battle was in Jesus mind is wrong why because sin starts in the mind.”
I also posted James 1:13, and as well as James (as I also said in my post) Jesus said that sin comes from the heart, that it comes from within man.
I have said nothing other then that sin starts in the mind. So I don't understand what exactly you are accusing me of being wrong about in that sense.
SimplyForgiven,
John 8:43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
So who is this speaking of?
I don't think it's a reach to say Cain. He was in fact the first person who we see murder in the bible, and with that murder he did not stand in the truth but he lied to God about it.
1 John 3:12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.
John 8 speaks of this murderer and liar doing so from his own resources, and we see in 1 John 3 that Cain murdered because he himself was evil.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2010,08:43) Hi Jodi,
Satan means adversary and the adversary is one of them.
His rule is different from God's as he works through adversaries
His adversary spirits enter men and dwell in them making them unclean.
Hi Nick,It is God who makes, the deaf, dumb, blind, mad, diseased. No other being has such powers, to say otherwise IMO is to create a false god.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 29 2010,06:20) I believe Young Literals Translation is right in not using the word Satan in the bible at all, it truly has no place.
Jodi,The word Satan is Adversary all through youngs literal translation.
“..and he having turned, said to Peter, `Get thee behind me, adversary! thou art a stumbling-block to me, for thou dost not mind the things of God, but the things of men.' Matt 16:23
“..and no wonder — for even the Adversary doth transform himself into a messenger of light;” Corinthians 11:14
But the adversary is also called the Devil and the serpent
“..and the great dragon was cast forth — the old serpent, who is called `Devil,' and `the Adversary,' who is leading astray the whole world — he was cast forth to the earth, and his messengers were cast forth with him.” Rev 12:9
Karmarie,
I believe it is more accurate to say the Hebrew word !tX (saw-tawn) is rendered correctly as adversary in Young Literals Translation, and as well the Aramaic word satanaß is rendered correctly as adversary in the New Testament.
I find your post odd, did you read what you quoted of me correctly? I said, “I believe Young Literals Translation is right in not using the word Satan in the bible at all, it truly has no place.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 29 2010,07:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2010,08:43) Hi Jodi,
Satan means adversary and the adversary is one of them.
His rule is different from God's as he works through adversaries
His adversary spirits enter men and dwell in them making them unclean.
Hi Nick,It is God who makes, the deaf, dumb, blind, mad, diseased. No other being has such powers, to say otherwise IMO is to create a false god.
Hi Jodi,Who put Job in such misery? Who had his family wiped out? God?
Who matched some of the miracles God performed through Moses? The Pharaoh's “magic practicing priests” made their stick turn into a snake, made frogs appear out of nowhere, etc.
Who were these “unclean spirits” that Jesus expelled from many people? And how did they know he was the Son of God when many humans were unclear about that? Who was Legion that went into the pigs?
Who was Azazel that received a sacrifice in the desert from the Israelites at God's command?
Just some thoughts.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Ed J @ June 28 2010,17:50) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 28 2010,02:53) Quote (Ed J @ June 27 2010,22:04) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 26 2010,09:18) Satan is NOT a BEING PERIOD, it is a description of a being.
Hi Jodi,Does what your saying mean…
1) Job asked YHVH if he could test himself ?
2) Job then blamed YHVH for testing himself ? ?Seems 'your logic' is a bit FLAWED; huh?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed J,I will be getting into Job on this thread soon. Why don't you talk about what has been discussed so far?
Who was the adversary that disputed with the angel over the body of Moses?
Who was a murderer and a liar from the beginning that is said to be the father of Lies?
Ed J, do me a favor and don't try to figure out what you think my logic would be and then turn around and say it's flawed. That's absurd and a serious waist of time!!
Jesus called Peter adversary not because he was acting like some other being who's proper name is adversary, Jesus called Peter adversary because he was being an adversary to God, by having IN MIND THE THINGS OF MEN!
Hi Jodi,Glad to here that you will be getting into Job,
then perhaps you will answer my questions
instead of putting them off and asking me to
respond to your propositions and assertions.Instead of trying to assume who was in contention
over the body of Moses, lets try look at what is meant.
“The Body of Moses” represents “the ten commandments”. (2Cor.3:7)
The contention is: that the 10 commandments were done away with; which of course the weren't!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
2 Corinthians 3:1 Do we begin again to recommend ourselves, except we need, as some, letters of recommendation unto you, or from you? 2 our letter ye are, having been written in our hearts, known and read by all men, 3 manifested that ye are a letter of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, not in the tablets of stone, but in fleshy tablets of the heart, 4 and such trust we have through the Christ toward God, 5 not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think anything, as of ourselves, but our sufficiency [is] of God, 6 who also made us sufficient [to be] ministrants of a new covenant, not of letter, but of spirit; for the letter doth kill, and the spirit doth make alive. 7 and if the ministration of the death, in letters, engraved in stones, came in glory, so that the sons of Israel were not able to look stedfastly to the face of Moses, because of the glory of his face — which was being made useless, 8 how shall the ministration of the Spirit not be more in glory? 9 for if the ministration of the condemnation [is] glory, much more doth the ministration of the righteousness abound in glory; 10 for also even that which hath been glorious, hath not been glorious — in this respect, because of the superior glory; 11 for if that which is being made useless [is] through glory, much more that which is remaining [is] in glory. 12 Having, then, such hope, we use much freedom of speech, 13 and [are] not as Moses, who was putting a vail upon his own face, for the sons of Israel not stedfastly to look to the end of that which is being made useless, 14 but their minds were hardened, for unto this day the same vail at the reading of the Old Covenant doth remain unwithdrawn — which in Christ is being made useless — 15 but till to-day, when Moses is read, a vail upon their heart doth lie, 16 and whenever they may turn unto the Lord, the vail is taken away. 17 And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty; 18 and we all, with unvailed face, the glory of the Lord beholding in a mirror, to the same image are being transformed, from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.The above scriptures are speaking of the glory of the Spirit of God, and how it makes useless the need for the ten commandments. The commandments KILL, it is the Spirit that brings life. Jesus had the Spirit working in him and it caused him through powerful influence not to obey the flesh but to instead obey every word of God, of which brought Jesus to perfection and eternal life. Those in the flesh, not having received the Spirit, cannot please God, for they are incapable of keeping the commandments. Christ is our guarantee, he represents our liberty, for God promises to give us this same grace. The letter was given to prove man's weakness, that of man's own self he can do nothing. Man alone is incapable of righteousness, he must have the gift of God's Spirit. The Spirit as it says makes the tablets of stone useless!!
Jude 1:3 Beloved, all diligence using to write to you concerning the common salvation, I had necessity to write to you, exhorting to agonize for the faith once delivered to the saints, 4 for there did come in unobserved certain men, long ago having been written beforehand to this judgment, impious, the grace of our God perverting to lasciviousness, and our only Master, God, and Lord — Jesus Christ — denying, 5 and to remind you I intend, you knowing once this, that the Lord, a people out of the land of Egypt having saved, again those who did not believe did destroy; 6 messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept, 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before — an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering. 8 In like manner, nevertheless, those dreaming also the flesh indeed do defile, and lordship they put away, and dignities they speak evil of, 9 yet Michael, the chief messenger, when, with the devil contending, he was disputing about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring up an evil-speaking judgment, but said, `The Lord rebuke thee!' 10 and these, as many things indeed as they have not known, they speak evil of; and as many things as naturally (as the irrational beasts) they understand, in these they are corrupted; 11 wo to them! because in the way of Cain they did go on, and to the deceit of Balaam for reward they did rush, and in the gainsaying of Korah they did perish. 12 These are in your love-feasts craggy rocks; feasting together with you, without fear shepherding themselves; clouds without water, by winds carried about; trees autumnal, without fruit, twice dead, rooted up; 13 wild waves of a sea, foaming out their own shames; stars going astray, to whom the gloom of the darkness to the age hath been kept.
The above scripture gives examples of MEN who have sinned again
st God, having spoken evil, denying His will, having acted like irrational beasts, and how God has reserved them for a coming judgment day. The author is giving out a warning.The body of Moses in the above scripture does not represent the ten commandments, it represents the Chosen People of God who were to be building a temple. The devil in the verse disputing with God's Chosen People, are another example of deceitful men, men who crept in Slandering God's people in an attempt to keep them from building.
Ed J, you said, “The contention is: that the 10 commandments were done away with; which of course the weren't!”
I really fail to see what you are saying is true from the above scriptures.
Look at the parallel here
ZECHARIAH 3——————–JUDE 1
Joshua the high priest—————–The body of Moses
The angel of the Lord—————–Michael the arch angel
Satan.—————–The devil.
Oppose—————-Dispute
The Lord rebuke you—————–The Lord rebuke you
Mike………..Read the last part of Job and it plainly say GOD Brought all this evil on Job, no one else did it. It was needful to correct Job and to prevent future problems Job would have incurred. Mike Where it say GOD disciplines and scourges every son he excepts that is no joke He really does scourge us at time brother. I know this from personal experience brother. Jesus himself was scourged by GOD or how could God have predestined that to happen if he did not know it before it happened. We are told Jesus (learned) obedience by the things he suffered right, Most think God just goes around not causing any Evil in our lives but that simply is not true He certainly does and will, because it is needful to correct our thinking and disciplines us, God out of His love for Job brought all those things on Job there was no bet between GOD and some adversarial (being) at all, but it was God sending Evil into Jobs life through a adversarial spirit and this caused Job to lose His childern and all He had as well as His health for seven years , it was a very hard scourging for Job to go through but was absolutely needful for Job.
The personification of a descriptor word like Adversary, is also done with the word Wisdom as if it were a Women, But we know Wisdom is not a Real person and the same with the word Adversary it is not a real person it is a Spirit in a person , Just like wisdom is also. These are Spirit is God uses to makes His decisions and an adversarial spirit is just one of them.
Mike Jodi is right on this Brother IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 29 2010,03:58) [
Satan is the English word translated from the Hebrew word phonetically saw-tawn that means in Hebrew adversary. A steep mountain I don't want to climb I could call Satan. My opponent in checkers I could call Satan. As well, the English word devil, means slanderer in Greek, it is neither a proper name nor does it belong to one person. Anyone who falsely accuses or lies is a Devil!
Jodi………They just do not understand that Personification of Adjectives is done a lot in scriptures, Jesus even described the Father that way , He told the disciples He spoke of the Father in provers (fictitious illustrations) and a time would come when he would speak to them about the Father plainly.The bible is full of Metaphors, and symbolic language , taking everything literally is what lead to all these misconception we have today, the Adversarial Spirit being a (Bring) in competition with GOD, Wisdom being a Women, or Jesus they use to try to justify that because Wisdom was with God in the beginning then Wisdom to them Means Jesus ,from that they conclude Jesus preexisted. All these are false conclusion on their parts.
If they would simply apply (ALL) the text written about the Adversary they could easily see the only thing that could possible fit was that the word (saw-tawn) adversary, could only fit as a spirit (intellect) that effects all of us and even God himself can be an adversary at time.
This spirit is one of the seven Spirits of God that goes to and fro throughout the earth. It can be both used for a good purpose or and evil purpose, If we have and adversarial Spirit (intellect) in regards to doing evil then that is a good purpose, if we used an adversarial spirit to resist God's will then that is an evil purpose. As when Peter acted as an adversary, he was called an Adversary By Him.
It is plain and simple but those false teaching of the apostate churches are so entrenched into there thinking they just do not get it. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Jodi……………………..gene
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 26 2010,09:38) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 25 2010,17:18) Satan is NOT a BEING PERIOD, it is a description of a being. If I were writing during the time of Hitler and I wrote, “soon more Jews would be placed in concentration camps by the Devil”, the devil would represent Hitler not some fallen angel.
Just like-
Revelation 2:10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
This author is not speaking of a fallen angel but a SLANDERER, a MAN, an emperor who was falsely accusing and persecuting the first Christians.
Jesus called Peter Satan, satan meaning adversary. He could of called him Fool, just the same. Fool does not represent one person, but is a description in how a person is thinking or behaving.
God said HE would CURSE Israel if they disobeyed, and we know that they certainly did disobey, and that they certainly were then cursed. An angel that brought a curse was called by the Israelites SAW-TAWN, this was a descriptive word made by the Hebrews to the angels who held such duties under God.
Satan is not some proper name of one being, it is a title that gives description to an individual.
How about “Father of lies”?That is a real title given to a real being by Jesus!
How about Jesus claiming “satan” had his own Kingdom?
So rant on as you want Jodi, but I don't care to engage your nonsense!
WJ
Matthew 12:22 Then was brought to him a demoniac, blind and dumb, and he healed him, so that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. 23 And all the multitudes were amazed, and said, `Is this the Son of David?' 24 but the Pharisees having heard, said, `This one doth not cast out demons, except by Beelzeboul, ruler of the demons.' 25 And Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said to them, `Every kingdom having been divided against itself is desolated, and no city or house having been divided against itself, doth stand, 26 and if the Adversary doth cast out the Adversary, against himself he was divided, how then doth his kingdom stand? 27 `And if I, by Beelzeboul, do cast out the demons, your sons — by whom do they cast out? because of this they — they shall be your judges. 28 `But if I, by the Spirit of God, do cast out the demons, then come already unto you did the reign of God.Exodus 4:11 So the Lord said to him, “Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I, the Lord?
Deut 30: 19 I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing,
Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”
2 Kings 5:1 Now Naaman, commander of the army of the king of Syria, was a great and honorable man in the eyes of his master, because by him the Lord had given victory to Syria. He was also a mighty man of valor, but a leper. 2 And the Syrians had gone out on raids, and had brought back captive a young girl from the land of Israel. She waited on Naaman's wife. 3 Then she said to her mistress, “If only my master were with the prophet who is in Samaria! For he would heal him of his leprosy.” 4 And Naaman went in and told his master, saying, “Thus and thus said the girl who is from the land of Israel.” 5 Then the king of Syria said, “Go now, and I will send a letter to the king of Israel.” So he departed and took with him ten talents of silver, six thousand shekels of gold, and ten changes of clothing. 6 Then he brought the letter to the king of Israel, which said, Now be advised, when this letter comes to you, that I have sent Naaman my servant to you, that you may heal him of his leprosy. 7 And it happened, when the king of Israel read the letter, that he tore his clothes and said, “Am I God, to kill and make alive, that this man sends a man to me to heal him of his leprosy? Therefore please consider, and see how he seeks a quarrel with me.” 8 So it was, when Elisha the man of God heard that the king of Israel had torn his clothes, that he sent to the king, saying, “Why have you torn your clothes? Please let him come to me, and he shall know that there is a prophet in Israel.” 9 Then Naaman went with his horses and chariot, and he stood at the door of Elisha's house. 10 And Elisha sent a messenger to him, saying, “Go and wash in the Jordan seven times, and your flesh shall be restored to you, and you shall be clean.” 11 But Naaman became furious, and went away and said, “Indeed, I said to myself, 'He will surely come out to me, and stand and call on the name of the Lord his God, and wave his hand over the place, and heal the leprosy.' 12 Are not the Abanah and the Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? Could I not wash in them and be clean?” So he turned and went away in a rage. 13 And his servants came near and spoke to him, and said, “My father, if the prophet had told you to do something great, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he says to you, 'Wash, and be clean'?” 14 So he went down and dipped seven times in the Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God; and his flesh was restored like the flesh of a little child, and he was clean. 15 And he returned to the man of God, he and all his aides, and came and stood before him; and he said, “Indeed, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, except in Israel; now therefore, please take a gift from your servant.” 16 But he said, “As the Lord lives, before whom I stand, I will receive nothing.” And he urged him to take it, but he refused. 17 So Naaman said, “Then, if not, please let your servant be given two mule-loads of earth; for your servant will no longer offer either burnt offering or sacrifice to other gods, but to the Lord. 18 Yet in this thing may the Lord pardon your servant: when my master goes into the temple of Rimmon to worship there, and he leans on my hand, and I bow down in the temple of Rimmon–when I bow down in the temple of Rimmon, may the Lord please pardon your servant in this thing.” 19 Then he said to him, “Go in peace.” So he departed from him a short distance. 20 But Gehazi, the servant of Elisha the man of God, said, “Look, my master has spared Naaman this Syrian, while not receiving from his hands what he brought; but as the Lord lives, I will run after him and take something from him.” 21 So Gehazi pursued Naaman. When Naaman saw him running after him, he got down from the chariot to meet him, and said, “Is all well?” 22 And he said, “All is well. My master has sent me, saying, 'Indeed, just now two young men of the sons of the prophets have come to me from the mountains of Ephraim. Please give them a talent of silver and two changes of garments.' ” 23 So Naaman said, “Please, take two talents.” And he urged him, and bound two talents of silver in two bags, with two changes of g
arments, and handed them to two of his servants; and they carried them on ahead of him. 24 When he came to the citadel, he took them from their hand, and stored them away in the house; then he let the men go, and they departed. 25 Now he went in and stood before his master. Elisha said to him, “Where did you go, Gehazi?” And he said, “Your servant did not go anywhere.” 26 Then he said to him, “Did not my heart go with you when the man turned back from his chariot to meet you? Is it time to receive money and to receive clothing, olive groves and vineyards, sheep and oxen, male and female servants? 27 Therefore the leprosy of Naaman shall cling to you and your descendants forever.” And he went out from his presence leprous, as white as snow.First of all, if a man be of evil spirits being dumb, deaf or blind, or a man be leprous, those inflictions came at the hand of God, for it is He alone that brings forth curse, calamity and darkness upon man through supernatural means, and He has allowed such inflictions to be passed down through generations. Just as Elisha the prophet could heal so we know of course Jesus had God’s Spirit to do likewise. God’s kingdom is not against itself, God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy.
Second, it should be clear that the Pharisees believed in a false god and false demons, after all Beelzeboul was the false god of Ekron, a god that had no power, a god that could not do any good nor any evil. Beelzeboul is not a fallen angel, Beelzebub IS A FASLE gOD, once again a god WITHOUT any power. God alone brings cursing, people who do not know the true God attribute their suffering to false gods, for they have no clue as to who the real God is that is to be feared, and in not knowing the True God they create with the imagination of their minds false gods and false demons.
Thirdly Jesus not only knowing their whoredom beliefs but also their thoughts, chose to speak to them in such a manner as to show how their thinking even within their false beliefs was absurd.
WJ, Jesus is neither claiming that Beelzeboul really exists nor that he has his own real kingdom, hence why we see him use “IF” when speaking to the Pharisees.
Jodi………..Amen sis. Some just do not get it , but perhaps some are beginning to, Keep up the good work Jodi.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Jodi you didnt answer a number of my points,
It seems you like to use “everything at the speed of light” stradegy
(look it up in the debat forum)
You didnt answer the intellect point,unfortunaly i dont have much time,
i will answer later.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 30 2010,00:40) Mike………..Read the last part of Job and it plainly say GOD Brought all this evil on Job, no one else did it. It was needful to correct Job and to prevent future problems Job would have incurred. Mike Where it say GOD disciplines and scourges every son he excepts that is no joke He really does scourge us at time brother. I know this from personal experience brother. Jesus himself was scourged by GOD or how could God have predestined that to happen if he did not know it before it happened. We are told Jesus (learned) obedience by the things he suffered right, Most think God just goes around not causing any Evil in our lives but that simply is not true He certainly does and will, because it is needful to correct our thinking and disciplines us, God out of His love for Job brought all those things on Job there was no bet between GOD and some adversarial (being) at all, but it was God sending Evil into Jobs life through a adversarial spirit and this caused Job to lose His childern and all He had as well as His health for seven years , it was a very hard scourging for Job to go through but was absolutely needful for Job. The personification of a descriptor word like Adversary, is also done with the word Wisdom as if it were a Women, But we know Wisdom is not a Real person and the same with the word Adversary it is not a real person it is a Spirit in a person , Just like wisdom is also. These are Spirit is God uses to makes His decisions and an adversarial spirit is just one of them.
Mike Jodi is right on this Brother IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Hi Gene,'Your' logic regarding Job makes no sense.
In other places you say the adversary comes form oneself.
But here you contradict your other Posts by saying God did it to Job?
So are we to believe God had a conversation with himself? (Job 1:7-12 / Job 2:2-7)
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