Definition of Church

Participant

94,

I know of no such requirement for correct doctrine.

Tim

April 14, 2007 at 12:22 am#48903

chosenone

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2007,06:44)

Hi CO,
God is ridding heaven and earth of Sin. Darkness has penetrated even the heavens and has corrupted the earth. It will be eliminated by fire.
Judgement is the trinunal of Christ[?2Cor5]for the sons of God and the rest face the great white throne judgement 1000yrs later. Some of them are found to be goats. What of them?

Nick.
I don't understand what you are trying to say, please give the verses you refer to in 2Cor.5:? and a better explanation of the point you are trying to make.

Blessings.

April 16, 2007 at 2:59 am#49164

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 14 2007,09:41)

Quote (942767 @ April 14 2007,09:03)

Quote (Tim2 @ April 12 2007,08:35)

I've got a question:

What do the Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant denominations agree on? I'll even give a list of choices:

a) Church governance
b) The books in the canon
c) The nature of the sacraments
d) justification
e) the Trinity

Tim

Hi Tim2:

My question to you is: “Is God confirming what they teach with miracles, signs, and wonders following as he did in the ministry of the Jesus and of the Apostles? If not, then it is a possiblilty that what they teach, although they may agree, is not correct.

God Bless

You wouldnt know unless you go to Church.

Could you gives us some examples of miracles and signs and wonders in your life recently?

Hi WJ:

I do go to church, and as for miracles, my 14 year old granddaughter went with my wife and I today and confessed Jesus as her Lord.

You might want to read my personal testimony. Perhaps it will answer your question relative to further miracles.

God Bless

April 16, 2007 at 3:07 am#49165

Participant

Quote (chosenone @ April 14 2007,12:22)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2007,06:44)

Nick.
I don't understand what you are trying to say, please give the verses you refer to in 2Cor.5:? and a better explanation of the point you are trying to make.

Blessings.

Hi CO,
2Cor 5
“10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”

Satan appeared among the sons of God at the heavenly assembly in Job 1-2.
One third of the angels in heaven do not serve God-[rev 1.20 shows us angels can be shown as stars.]

Rev 12
” 3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born…..

..7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

April 16, 2007 at 3:36 am#49168

Participant

Quote (Tim2 @ April 14 2007,09:57)

94,

I know of no such requirement for correct doctrine.

Tim

Hi Tim2:

What in your opinion makes your doctrine Orthodox?

God confirmed what Jesus taught with miracles and signs and he also confirmed what the Apostles taught. For certain, he will not confirm a lie.

Jesus stated: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also: and greater works that these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye ask in my name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son”.

God Bless

April 16, 2007 at 6:58 am#49200

chosenone

Participant

Hi Nick.
I'm still not sure of what you are saying, sorry.

Blessings.

April 16, 2007 at 10:38 am#49217

Participant

Hi CO,
Anyway
Thus I see it.
God had a problem
Genisis is not the start.
Before Genesis was “the beginning”
At the start of Genesis we see earth already in darkness.
Satan was here exerting squatters rights, light is formed and divided from it.
Physical creation followed and God formed man who chose to serve the local earthly god.
So God sent His son to partake of flesh and overcome sin and it's progenitor, the king of darkness.
Then he chose and shared his given powers and abilities with others to continue the work.
He returned as a man to heaven to glory overcoming and shaming the evil angels.
Michael and the faithful host expelled them to earth and cleanses heaven.
Christ himself returns towards earth and rescues his brothers.
The evil on earth is destroyed by terrible changes.
The kingdom reigns on earth for 1000 years.
Residual evil is brought to light.
The judgement of all.
Order restored.
Eternally.
Peace
love
God

April 16, 2007 at 10:28 pm#49278

Participant

Keep the inferences coming Nick!

April 16, 2007 at 10:44 pm#49284

Participant

Hi Tim2,
That is how I see it and you can attack it as much as you like as I do not claim it is doctrine.
I express opinions to stimulate debate and cause us to look deeper.
Would it not be better to walk in harmony?

April 16, 2007 at 11:03 pm#49287

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (942767 @ April 16 2007,14:59)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 14 2007,09:41)

Quote (942767 @ April 14 2007,09:03)

Quote (Tim2 @ April 12 2007,08:35)

I've got a question:

What do the Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant denominations agree on? I'll even give a list of choices:

a) Church governance
b) The books in the canon
c) The nature of the sacraments
d) justification
e) the Trinity

Tim

Hi Tim2:

God Bless

You wouldnt know unless you go to Church.

Could you gives us some examples of miracles and signs and wonders in your life recently?

Hi WJ:

I do go to church, and as for miracles, my 14 year old granddaughter went with my wife and I today and confessesed Jesus as her Lord.

You might want to read my personal testimony. Perhaps it will answer your question relative to further miracles.

God Bless

Fantastic.

And my brother got saved yesterday who was an alchoholic for 35 years.

I also have a miraculous testimony.

So do many who go to Church.

But there is no scriptural requirement for miracles to having the truth of the Gospel.

1 Cor 2:
1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2]For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Simply believing the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

April 16, 2007 at 11:06 pm#49288

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2007,22:38)

Thats pretty did you write that by yourself?

April 16, 2007 at 11:48 pm#49292

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 17 2007,11:03)

Quote (942767 @ April 16 2007,14:59)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 14 2007,09:41)

Quote (942767 @ April 14 2007,09:03)

Quote (Tim2 @ April 12 2007,08:35)

I've got a question:

What do the Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant denominations agree on? I'll even give a list of choices:

a) Church governance
b) The books in the canon
c) The nature of the sacraments
d) justification
e) the Trinity

Tim

Hi Tim2:

God Bless

You wouldnt know unless you go to Church.

Could you gives us some examples of miracles and signs and wonders in your life recently?

Hi WJ:

I do go to church, and as for miracles, my 14 year old granddaughter went with my wife and I today and confessesed Jesus as her Lord.

You might want to read my personal testimony. Perhaps it will answer your question relative to further miracles.

God Bless

Fantastic.

And my brother got saved yesterday who was an alchoholic for 35 years.

I also have a miraculous testimony.

So do many who go to Church.

But there is no scriptural requirement for miracles to having the truth of the Gospel.

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Simply believing the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

Hi WJ:

There is joy in heaven over one sinner that repents, and so, I am very happy to hear about your brother, and I agree that salvation is based on simply believing the gospel (however, not just a mental assent), and so, why am I being told that unless I believe the doctrine of “trinity” I can't be saved? “That” simply is not the truth.

“For God so loved the world that he gave his Only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world: but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God”. (John 3:16-18)

“According to the grace of God which is given unto me; as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man should build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; every man's work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work shall abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire”. (1 Co. 3:10-15)

2Ti 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

God Bless

April 17, 2007 at 12:32 am#49294

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (942767 @ April 17 2007,11:48)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 17 2007,11:03)

Quote (942767 @ April 16 2007,14:59)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 14 2007,09:41)

Quote (942767 @ April 14 2007,09:03)

Quote (Tim2 @ April 12 2007,08:35)

I've got a question:

What do the Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant denominations agree on? I'll even give a list of choices:

a) Church governance
b) The books in the canon
c) The nature of the sacraments
d) justification
e) the Trinity

Tim

Hi Tim2:

God Bless

You wouldnt know unless you go to Church.

Could you gives us some examples of miracles and signs and wonders in your life recently?

Hi WJ:

I do go to church, and as for miracles, my 14 year old granddaughter went with my wife and I today and confessesed Jesus as her Lord.

You might want to read my personal testimony. Perhaps it will answer your question relative to further miracles.

God Bless

Fantastic.

And my brother got saved yesterday who was an alchoholic for 35 years.

I also have a miraculous testimony.

So do many who go to Church.

But there is no scriptural requirement for miracles to having the truth of the Gospel.

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Simply believing the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

Hi WJ:

2Ti 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

God Bless

I am sorry to hear that you are being told that you have to believe in a trinity to be saved.

I have never told anyone on this sight that.

However I do believe that is is very important to know the basic understanding of Gods nature.

To me that is essential to spiritual grown since it is a foundational truth to Trinitarians!

If Trinitarians are right as I believe we are of course, then can you see that seeing Jesus as Lord and God like Thomas would be very Important.

But on the other side I think its wrong to label Trinitarian Churchs as being of the whore simply becaiuse of their view on the Trinity.

Many evangelical Churchs are doing the work of the Gospel.

My brother by the way as well as myself were saved in a Trinitarian Church.

So I believe Gods people can be found all over the world in many organizations based on simply having faith in Christ and being born into his body which is the true Church.

Blessings

April 17, 2007 at 2:28 am#49305

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 17 2007,12:32)

Quote (942767 @ April 17 2007,11:48)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 17 2007,11:03)

Quote (942767 @ April 16 2007,14:59)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 14 2007,09:41)

Quote (942767 @ April 14 2007,09:03)

Quote (Tim2 @ April 12 2007,08:35)

I've got a question:

What do the Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant denominations agree on? I'll even give a list of choices:

a) Church governance
b) The books in the canon
c) The nature of the sacraments
d) justification
e) the Trinity

Tim

Hi Tim2:

God Bless

You wouldnt know unless you go to Church.

Could you gives us some examples of miracles and signs and wonders in your life recently?

Hi WJ:

I do go to church, and as for miracles, my 14 year old granddaughter went with my wife and I today and confessesed Jesus as her Lord.

You might want to read my personal testimony. Perhaps it will answer your question relative to further miracles.

God Bless

Fantastic.

And my brother got saved yesterday who was an alchoholic for 35 years.

I also have a miraculous testimony.

So do many who go to Church.

But there is no scriptural requirement for miracles to having the truth of the Gospel.

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Simply believing the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

Hi WJ:

2Ti 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

God Bless

I am sorry to hear that you are being told that you have to believe in a trinity to be saved.

I have never told anyone on this sight that.

However I do believe that is is very important to know the basic understanding of Gods nature.

To me that is essential to spiritual grown since it is a foundational truth to Trinitarians!

If Trinitarians are right as I believe we are of course, then can you see that seeing Jesus as Lord and God like Thomas would be very Important.

But on the other side I think its wrong to label Trinitarian Churchs as being of the whore simply becaiuse of their view on the Trinity.

Many evangelical Churchs are doing the work of the Gospel.

My brother by the way as well as myself were saved in a Trinitarian Church.

So I believe Gods people can be found all over the world in many organizations based on simply having faith in Christ and being born into his body which is the true Church.

Blessings

Hi WJ:

Even though you and Isaiah 1:18 believe in the trinity doctrine, I don't believe that either of you have ever said that someone is not saved if they do not believe that the doctrine is correct.

The statement of faith of the church where I currently worship essentially states that unless someone believes in the doctrine of the trinity, and the doctrine of original sin, and some other doctrines (which I consider minor) they cannot be a member of the church. In other words if a person joins the church, he has to sign that he agrees with those doctrines.

I enjoy worshipping there, and the church does many good works throughout the world, and I support those works with a tithe of my income, but I can't become a member of the church because in signing their statement I would be lying.

Before I started going to this church, God prepared me for the meeting that I was t
o have with the pastor of the church, by a discussion that I had relative to “trinity” with a pastor of someone who did work where I work. This pastor was a scholar who held several advanced Theological degrees, and had been, according to him, on some of the committees that translated the bible (what versions, I don't know). And so, when I met with the pastor of the church where I currently attend, I discussed with him that my salvation did not depend upon my embracing the doctrine of the “trinity” in order for me to be saved, and I showed him the scripture that I showed you and others as well that plainly state that fact. Well, he told me that I was welcome to worship there, but that we would have to agree to disagree on those doctrines.

As I said, the church does many good works, but I don't see the gifts of the Spirit described in 1 Co. 12 in operation there.

I believe that God has shown me that the Catholic church is what God considers to be the Babylonian Whore (the mother of harlots), because from her come all of the false doctrines that are in the church today. The church is divided, and was never God's intent that that would be so, and he is calling the church out of this confusion in this last day. God is calling, Re 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

I believe that you are sincere in what you teach, and I also am sincere in what I teach otherwise we would be lying, and we know what the end of liars will be, and I don't want any part of that either for you or for men or anyone. But since we are not in agreement, obviously either you or I need to be corrected, and if I am wrong, I want for God to correct me quickly.

My desire is God's very best for you and your family. Praise God for the salvation of your brother.

April 17, 2007 at 3:00 am#49307

Participant

With all due respect to my brother WJ, I must warn you 94 and everyone else on this website, that if you do not believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, you cannot be saved. This is the common confession of the worldwide church in the Athanasian Creed: “Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith; Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.” If you don't believe that Jesus is God, then as Paul warned, “For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.” This is why the Fifth Ecumenical Council declared, “If anyone does not confess that our Lord Jesus Christ who was crucified in the flesh is true God and the Lord of Glory and one of the Holy Trinity: let him be anathema.”

So you must believe that Jesus is God and believe in the Holy Trinity, in whose name all believers are baptized.

Tim

April 17, 2007 at 3:19 am#49309

Participant

Hi Tim2,
I thank God that He is not a man called Athanasius and that this man's folly plays no part in our future hopes. Let the councils talk all they will but their hot air only fans the flames of their inheritance.

April 17, 2007 at 3:25 am#49311

Participant

Hi tim2,
From the documents of Vatican Council 2 on Revelation.

“24. Sacred theology rests on the written Word of God, together
with sacred tradition, as its primary and perpetual foundation. By
scrutinizing in the light of faith all truth stored up in the
mystery of Christ, theology is most powerfully strengthened and
constantly rejuvenated by that Word. For the sacred Scriptures
contain the Word of God and since they are inspired really are the
Word of God; and so the study of the sacred page is, as it were,
the soul of sacred theology [3]. By the same word of Scripture the
ministry of the Word also, that is, pastoral preaching, catechetics
and all Christian instruction, in which the liturgical homily must
hold the foremost place, is nourished in a healthy way and
flourishes in a holy way.”

Do you believe this word for word?

April 17, 2007 at 3:28 am#49313

Participant

Quote (Tim2 @ April 17 2007,15:00)

So you must believe that Jesus is God and believe in the Holy Trinity, in whose name all believers are baptized.

Tim

Hi Tim:

Are you God's spokesman and authority on this subject? I know that the Spirit of God my Father dwells in me and testifys that my sins are forgiven, but I appreciate the warning, but “that spirit” is not coming from God but from that other person.

But as the old saying goes, “the proof is in the pudding”. We shall see said “the blind man”.

April 17, 2007 at 3:34 am#49314

Participant

Quote (Tim2 @ April 17 2007,15:00)

So you must believe that Jesus is God and believe in the Holy Trinity, in whose name all believers are baptized.

Tim

Hi,
How amazing is it that someone would come here and quote their church traditional doctrine as if it was equivalent to scripture in it's impact on all men. I do not think anyone has come here and tried to show that their denomination was only the way of salvation in such an obvious way before.

Tim is saying that his leaders now and historically speak alone for Christ and to obey them is to obey God.

As usual the opposite is closer to the truth.

April 17, 2007 at 3:40 am#49315