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I think it’s you who doesn’t understand things, and you’ve been on the wrong track since the very first chapters of Genesis.
“Stand at the crossroads and look, and inquire of the ancient paths, where is the good way; and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls” (Jeremiah 6:16).
I’ve asked you to explain what I don’t understand and you remain silent. You’re confirming you haven’t an idea of why you believe what you believe; you just believe. Apparently so should everyone else and heaven forbid anyone question what you believe, because you can’t explain it anyways.
By the way, the verse you quote from Jeremiah, what do you think G-d meant when HE said to “inquire of the ancient paths”? You think maybe HE was speaking of the Torah (HE was), because the end of the verse says: “But they said, ‘We will not follow it!’” Meaning the Israelite’s weren’t going to follow the ways G-d established in “ancient time.”
Still waiting for an explanation of your two questions; why were these offerings made and what did they mean in Genesis 4? I have know idea the point you are trying to make, explain yourself.
I’m not convinced you really want to know anything about sacrifices and offerings.
If you did, I think you would have done it a long time ago.
I’m not convinced you really want to know anything about sacrifices and offerings.
Is that because you can’t explain them? I called myself “christian” for 40 years before walking away and I know what “christianity” taught about sacrifices and offerings. Since you won’t explain what you believe, here is what G-d said.
Why do you think human sacrifices are okay with G-d when HE called them abhorrent, an abominable practice, and never considered them as a practice HE thought of being acceptable (Deut 12:31, Jer 19:5, Ezekiel 16:20-22). YET, G-d suddenly finds it okay for the killing of HIS “only begotten son”?!?!? Sounds like double speak; do as I say, not as I do.
The Jesus’ “sacrifice” (aka suicide since he did it of his own accord), as christianity teaches, was for the sins of mankind; except, everyone is responsible for their own sins and the innocent cannot be held responsible for the guilty (Ex 32:30-34, Deut 24:16, Jer 31:29-30, Ezekiel 18).
Christianity also teaches “blood” is required for the forgiveness of sins; but was it really? According to G-d one has the power over sin and we are to rule over it (Gen 4:7), In Lev 5:11 if one cannot afford an animal for a sacrifice, they are to bring FLOUR! Num 5:6-7 says one is to confess their sin and make restitution to the one they committed the sin against – not finding blood in that. Num 16:47 says incense atoned for the peoples sin. Num 31:50 gold ornaments, armlets, bracelets, signet rings, earrings, and necklaces was used to make atonement. 1 Sam 15:22 says obedience is better than sacrifice. 1 Kings 8:38-39 confessing to G-d can bring forgiveness. Let’s not forget about the book of Jonah where the Ninevites cried out to G-d and were forgiven. So is a blood sacrifice really demanded by G-d?
Contrary to what you believe and have been taught, G-d doesn’t require “blood” for one’s sins. Is it man or G-d you place your trust in? Is scriptural truth or man’s interpretive understanding that takes precedence?
You still haven’t proved the Jesus is THE Messiah according to the Tanakh and how being conceived of the spirit is the same as being conceived by a man.
Giving scriptural passages is how you prove something, not religious doctrine or words of man or woman.
If you refuse to try to understand the two offerings (to Cain and Abel), one of which was accepted by God, that’s truly sad.
Yes, God abhors offerings made without enlightened faith and a sincere heart.This doesn’t prove that He doesn’t approve of those made according to God’s will.
And why was the one accepted and the other rejected; you still aren’t explaining anything…now that’s truly sad!
I keep asking and you keep deflecting; give me your understanding. I can’t refuse something if it hasn’t been presented. This isn’t complicated!
Why not just answer the question, why dodge and evade by answering a question with a question?
Just answer the question!
Just noticed, you origianlly asked why were these offerings made and what did they mean and then you move on to which one was more acceptable; which is it?
Why were the offerings made?
What did the offerings mean?
Why was one more acceptable than the other?
I won’t explain the subject of sacrifices and offerings to you, you already know about it, you simply NEED to believe in it, to delve deeper.
WOW!!!!! You won’t or you can’t!
Besides the question isn’t about “sacrifices and offerings.” The question you posed what was the meaning and the why of the offerings done by Cain and Abel to G-d. And I have no idea “why” they did an offering or the “meaning” behind it! Can’t find an answer to these question doing a search on the internet that doesn’t speak of “sacrifices and offerings” in general and dealing with sin and their offering weren’t about sin. This was NEVER a focus in any church I ever attended! You apparently have been taught something; what were you taught?!?!? EXPLAIN YOURSELF!!! What is the difficulty?!?!
I need to become a lion dentist, it would be easier than trying to get you to explain what you believe.
You can’t find anything on the internet?
I don’t believe you.
Besides, a Christian church that doesn’t have any ideas about sacrifices and offerings doesn’t exist, or it’s not a Christian church.
Are you having an issue with understanding what I wrote or are you NOT reading what I wrote OR did you forget what you asked originally? The question isn’t about “sacrifices and offerings” (church has got a handle of twisting that without any problem); the question is:
What’s the meaning and the why of Cain and Abel’s offering to G-d.
This is YOUR original question!!!
The question isn’t about “sacrifices and offerings” (the Church knows perfectly well how to misuse them); the question is:
What is the meaning and purpose of Cain and Abel’s offering to God?
That’s YOUR original question!!!
me
It comes down to the same thing. It’s the same subject.It can’t be the same; there was no precedence to give G-d an offering; G-d never established the idea, Cain did and Abel followed his example. This wasn’t a “sin” sacrifice as the word “sin” is first mentioned in verse 7 where G-d tells Cain he has the power and must ruler over it. The only thing that can be established is that it was an offering. So by simple reasoning, Cain’s offering to G-d (the first done) CANNOT mean the same as future “sacrifices”, “offerings”, sure. My confusion comes in by you asking what the meaning and the why of their offering is and then refuse to say; only to now be told it’s the same as the future “sacrifices and offerings” system…NOT!!!!
Since you believe the future sacrificial system is the same as the first offering done, you’re going to have to explain; this was never a concept I was taught in the 40 years I was deceived by christianity.
Chapter 6—Cain and Abel and Their Offerings
Cain and Abel, the sons of Adam, were very unlike in character. Abel feared God. Cain cherished rebellious feelings and murmured against God because of the curse pronounced upon Adam and because the ground was cursed for his sin. These brothers had been instructed in regard to the provision made for the salvation of the human race. They were required to carry out a system of humble obedience, showing their reverence for God and their faith and dependence upon the promised Redeemer, by slaying the firstlings of the flock and solemnly presenting them with the blood as a burnt offering to God. This sacrifice would lead them to continually keep in mind their sin and the Redeemer to come, who was to be the great sacrifice for man.SR 52.1
Cain brought his offering unto the Lord with murmuring and infidelity in his heart in regard to the promised Sacrifice. He was unwilling to strictly follow the plan of obedience and procure a lamb and offer it with the fruit of the ground. He merely took of the ground and disregarded the requirement of God. God had made known to Adam that without shedding of blood there could be no remission of sin. Cain was not particular to bring even the best of the fruits. Abel advised his brother not to come before the Lord without the blood of sacrifice. Cain, being the eldest, would not listen to his brother. He despised his counsel, and with doubt and murmuring in regard to the necessity of the ceremonial offerings, he presented his offering. But God did not accept it.SR 52.2
Abel brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat, as God had commanded; and in full faith of the Messiah to come, and with humble reverence, he presented the offering. God had respect unto his offering. A light flashes from heaven and consumes the offering of Abel. Cain sees no manifestation that his is accepted. He is angry with the Lord and with his brother. God condescends to send an angel to Cain to converse with him.SR 53.1
The angel inquires of him the reason of his anger, and informs him that if he does well and follows the directions God has given, He will accept him and respect his offering. But if he will not humbly submit to God’s arrangements, and believe and obey Him, He cannot accept his offering. The angel tells Cain that it was no injustice on the part of God, or partiality shown to Abel, but that it was on account of his own sin and disobedience of God’s express command that He could not respect his offering—and if he would do well he would be accepted of God, and his brother should listen to him, and he should take the lead, because he was the eldest.SR 53.2
But even after being thus faithfully instructed, Cain did not repent. Instead of censuring and abhorring himself for his unbelief, he still complains of the injustice and partiality of God. And in his jealousy and hatred he contends with Abel and reproaches him. Abel meekly points out his brother’s error and shows him that the wrong is in himself. But Cain hates his brother from the moment that God manifests to him the tokens of His acceptance. His brother Abel seeks to appease his wrath by contending for the compassion of God in saving the lives of their parents when He might have brought upon them immediate death. He tells Cain that God loves them, or He would not have given His Son, innocent and holy, to suffer the wrath which man, by his disobedience, deserves to suffer.SR 53.3
Ellen G. White
Since you couldn’t explain what you believe, I looked it up. If this is what you believe you need to run!!!! Run as fast and as far as you can away from this religion!!! This is pure nonsense and can’t believe how much was injected into three verses! Read the words written by Moses! Your false goddess comes up with “Abel feared God. Cain cherished rebellious feelings and murmured against God because of the curse pronounced upon Adam and because the ground was cursed for his sin.” Where is that written?!?!?
She then writes “they were required to carry out a system of humble obedience, showing their reverence for God and their faith and dependence upon the promised Redeemer, by slaying the firstlings of the flock and solemnly presenting them with the blood as a burnt offering to God. This sacrifice would lead them to continually keep in mind their sin and the Redeemer to come.” At what point did G-d tell them this?!?
When did G-d instruct either of them concerning an offering, “Cain brought his offering unto the Lord with murmuring and infidelity in his heart in regard to the promised Sacrifice (the Jesus??). He was unwilling to strictly follow the plan of obedience and procure a lamb.” And G-d commanded Abel bring the first of his flock?!?!? WHERE!!!! AND WHEN!!!!
I could continue, but why waste my time; I wasted enough just reading this drivel! This is the foundation of what you believe…made up stories. You need to run from this! These are false teachings and you hold onto it calling it truth!! WOW!!
And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
[4] And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. 👉And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
[5] 👉But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.If God accepted Abel’s offering, it means that somewhere, 👉an instruction was given to those involved.
It didn’t just happen by itself.Was it shame or not knowing the information in my previous post that you wouldn’t or couldn’t tell me what is taught by your faith? I can tell you I was NEVER taught this in my 40 years. AND why do I have to go learn your faith to find out anything from it…it seems like one is ashamed of what they believe or are not as strong in their faith to wear it on their sleeves as they think they are.
Anyways, now we get to inject our thoughts, fill in the blanks, and write a story that takes precedence over what was written? In their offering they were looking forward to a “promised Sacrifice” “the Jesus messiah”, WHY??? Why would they be looking forward to the Jesus 4000 years into the future when the offering was to G-d??? That make zero sense.
How do we know Cain didn’t come up with this on his own; we aren’t given any details of why they gave an offering to G-d. Upon further study Cain’s name has a meaning “to create.” After he was cursed, he went out and built a city and did it without the knowledge of building, but with the gift G-d gave him – to create.
A more plausible understanding of this passage (not saying I’m right, but more probable than the story White created) starting in verse one; we have the birth accounts of Cain and Abel, and Eve speaks of Cain with an air of reverence by saying “I have created a man just as the LORD did!” and then it’s only mentioned of Abel’s birth, no fanfare, only that Eve gave birth. From this passage, does Eve show favoritism to Cain? Is there a rivalry between the brothers for their mothers approval as they get older?
Now in verse three there’s an unusual phrase “as time passed”, “process of time”, or “at the end of days” Cain brings an offering to G-d of what he’s grown and he is the first to bring an offering. What does “time passed” mean; all we can do is guess because it doesn’t say, but we do have an idea that it most likely deals with the time Cain is harvesting the fruits of the ground. As gardeners know, one harvests throughout the growing season and since “time” has passed, one can reason this could most likely be at the end of the season. So what kinds of fruit is he bringing for this offering? Once again, as gardeners know, the produce at the end of the season isn’t as good as from the beginning. So one can reason the offering Cain did wasn’t the choicest of fruit.
Then we have Abel’s offering, remember that sibling rivalry mentioned earlier, not to be out done by his brother he finds the best of the best of his flock and offers it up to G-d. Look at the language used to describe each offering, it’s similar in the descriptions of their births – except now it’s flipped. Cain’s offering is given little attention while Abel’s is spoken of highly. We then find out G-d is pleased with Abel’s but not Cain’s, and Cain becomes angry.
In the next paragraph G-d speaks with Cain out of concern as he is angry his offering wasn’t accepted and Abel’s was. G-d then counsels him that by doing right everything will be fine, basically learn from this and let’s try again; however, if you don’t do right, (knowledge of good and evil) “sin” will take control. The next phrase is what christianity rejects, “Sin desires to dominate you, but you must subdue it.” We have power over sin, we have the power to choose what is right or what is NOT right; from the very beginning with the gift of knowing right and wrong, G-d said we have power over what we do – choose right or choose wrong. In the case of Cain, he allowed jealousy to control him and murdered his brother.
It’s like the cartoon with an angel on one should and the devil on the other, each of them telling you what to do; do you listen to the angel or the devil? Bottom line, it’s your choice, you choose because G-d gave you the gift to decern right from wrong. This is why Paul is a liar when he says sin controls you. This is why everyone will held responsible for the sins they commit and the innocent cannot take on your guilt as the christian believes the Jesus will do for them.
If you had a plumbing issue in your home, you would obviously call a plumber; likewise, if you had a roofing problem, you would call a roofer; why does one rely on second hand interpretations to understand scripture and not go to one’s it was given to, the one’s who spend a lifetime studying it. Isn’t the original better than the copy?
Abel placed his trust in God and in the merits of the promised Savior of the world.
Cain did not place his trust in God and in the merits of the promised Savior.
The promised Savior is the one who “was to crush the head of the serpent (Satan)” (Genesis 3:15). This took place at the cross, when Satan was exposed, he, the father of lies, a murderer from the beginning.[14] Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
[15] And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.(Heb.2)Abel placed his trust in God and in the merits of the promised Savior of the world.
Cain did not place his trust in God and in the merits of the promised Savior.
Give me the passages of these statements. These are the word of your false prophetess and NOT G-d! Did you notice you haven’t explained a thing; you keep giving me weak talking points. Back up what you believe with the Tanakh, not your addendum to the bible.
We’ve already be over Gen 3:15 and you reject the actual words spoken in favor of your Jesus narrative. The serpent was just that, a serpent; not an animal possessed by Satan (that’s hilarious by the way). Why would G-d curse this serpent if it was possessed by Satan? That seems to be an unjust punishment, to bear the guilt of another for something you had no control over. See how the serpent being possessed doesn’t make sense? Man made that up so they could blame Satan.
This serpents curse was to slithering on the ground and eat dust; it would seem it had legs to walk about? G-d said there will be hostilities between the serpent’s and the woman’s offspring; are you a fan of snakes, most people aren’t and when they see them they run or crush them – therefore have their heads crushed by a heel. Since a snake slithers on the ground, where can they strike, but the heel. Pull you Jesus glasses off so you can understand what G-d said, not some interpretation of a mankind.
You then quote the book of Hebrews; a book whose author is unknown and filled with twisting of G-d’s word. A book that should never have made it into the christian canon due to not being able to confirm its veracity.
You really need to start reading and studying the words G-d spoke thru man in the first half of the book called the bible. What do you think caused me to walk away from christianity? What I was being told didn’t align with what G-d wrote in HIS book and I have given example after example of this corruption; yet you still reject G-d in favor of man.
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