Criticism of Muhammad

[bodhitharta]

Quote (theodorej @ July 12 2010,22:54)

Quote (TimothyVI @ July 12 2010,21:05) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 12 2010,15:55) Tell me what did Muhammad do that was barborous that Moses did not do? Actually, I was wondering the same thing. Tim Greetings B…..The actions of a man is indicative of his character ( definition ) Character is…knowing right from wrong and choosing to do what is  right

Then his character was perfect according to the scriptures because smashing idols and bringing Monotheism and law to pagan arabs and others throughout the world is Ideal according to the Bible and the Quran.

But I must add though that Character has nothing to do with right or wrong at all. Character is simply the qualities or features that distinguish one person from another

Even right and wrong is only relevent within a context. Killing is not always wrong if that were the case it would be wrong to eat animals or defend yourself in war.

[Stu]

BD

Quote

Pedophiles do not “Marry” children nor do all pedophiles even have sex with children the problem with your argument is you have no valid case that Muhammad was even a pedophile in any way as he had wives older and younger than himself so would he also be a “gerophile” Muhammad obviously showed no special attraction to children or any particular age group so your argument lacks merit as pointing out a single example does not show an ongoing pattern.

Pedophiles have sex with children, which is what Mo did when Aisha was nine.

Quote

As far as homosexuality is concerned it being lawful does not make it ethical or acceptable as in my state it just became illegal to have sex with animals does that mean to you that somehow before then it was ethical?

You used the word lawful. In your usual way you are pretending we were discussing something different.

Quote

Spiritually there is obviously a reason why homosexuality is prohibited or for that matter beastiality is prohibited. From a gratification standpoint any stimulus to the genitals can give great feelings but all things are not allowed. According to your view a mother and son of consenting age should be allowed to have (protected) sex and if not tell me why not?

Homosexuality is not prohibited, except by religious bigots as part of their nonsense fantasy world. Bestiality is prohibited because it does not involve the informed consent of both parties and incest is prohibited because inbreeding produces congenital defects in offspring.

Stuart

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ July 14 2010,11:39)

BD Quote Pedophiles do not “Marry” children nor do all pedophiles even have sex with children the problem with your argument is you have no valid case that Muhammad was even a pedophile in any way as he had wives older and younger than himself so would he also be a “gerophile” Muhammad obviously showed no special attraction to children or any particular age group so your argument lacks merit as pointing out a single example does not show an ongoing pattern. Pedophiles have sex with children, which is what Mo did when Aisha was nine. Quote As far as homosexuality is concerned it being lawful does not make it ethical or acceptable as in my state it just became illegal to have sex with animals does that mean to you that somehow before then it was ethical? You used the word lawful.  In your usual way you are pretending we were discussing something different.   Quote Spiritually there is obviously a reason why homosexuality is prohibited or for that matter beastiality is prohibited. From a gratification standpoint any stimulus to the genitals can give great feelings but all things are not allowed. According to your view a mother and son of consenting age should be allowed to have (protected) sex and if not tell me why not? Homosexuality is not prohibited, except by religious bigots as part of their nonsense fantasy world.  Bestiality is prohibited because it does not involve the informed consent of both parties and incest is prohibited because inbreeding produces congenital defects in offspring. Stuart

Sorry, but I won't let you get away so easy STU

This is what I asked(with a little clarification)

Should a (Sterile)mother and (Sterile)son of consenting age be allowed to have sex and if not tell me why not?

Second point is how do animals consent with other animals to have sex? Why do you feel that humans and animals cannot have a consentual interaction are animals incapable of knowing what sex is?

I am taking you to task so please be careful

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 14 2010,12:03)

Quote (Stu @ July 14 2010,11:39) BD Quote Pedophiles do not “Marry” children nor do all pedophiles even have sex with children the problem with your argument is you have no valid case that Muhammad was even a pedophile in any way as he had wives older and younger than himself so would he also be a “gerophile” Muhammad obviously showed no special attraction to children or any particular age group so your argument lacks merit as pointing out a single example does not show an ongoing pattern. Pedophiles have sex with children, which is what Mo did when Aisha was nine. Quote As far as homosexuality is concerned it being lawful does not make it ethical or acceptable as in my state it just became illegal to have sex with animals does that mean to you that somehow before then it was ethical? You used the word lawful.  In your usual way you are pretending we were discussing something different.   Quote Spiritually there is obviously a reason why homosexuality is prohibited or for that matter beastiality is prohibited. From a gratification standpoint any stimulus to the genitals can give great feelings but all things are not allowed. According to your view a mother and son of consenting age should be allowed to have (protected) sex and if not tell me why not? Homosexuality is not prohibited, except by religious bigots as part of their nonsense fantasy world.  Bestiality is prohibited because it does not involve the informed consent of both parties and incest is prohibited because inbreeding produces congenital defects in offspring. Stuart Sorry, but I won't let you get away so easy STU This is what I asked(with a little clarification) Should a (Sterile)mother and (Sterile)son of consenting age be allowed to have sex and if not tell me why not? Second point is how do animals consent with other animals to have sex? Why do you feel that humans and animals cannot have a consentual interaction are animals incapable of knowing what sex is? I am taking you to task so please be careful

You are not taking me to task so much as changing the subject again.

Although I have a natural aversion to incest, probably built into me by natural selection for very obvious reasons, there is no rational reason why sterile close relatives should not have sex. Do you think it is a pressing issue?

Regarding animals, there is a universally-held ethic, codified in ideas of human rights, that says sex should involve the informed consent of both parties. Are you arguing that human ethics should be adopted by other species? Are you saying it is actually possible to gain unambiguous consent from an animal of a different species?

Stuart

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ July 14 2010,12:24)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 14 2010,12:03) Quote (Stu @ July 14 2010,11:39) BD Quote Pedophiles do not “Marry” children nor do all pedophiles even have sex with children the problem with your argument is you have no valid case that Muhammad was even a pedophile in any way as he had wives older and younger than himself so would he also be a “gerophile” Muhammad obviously showed no special attraction to children or any particular age group so your argument lacks merit as pointing out a single example does not show an ongoing pattern. Pedophiles have sex with children, which is what Mo did when Aisha was nine. Quote As far as homosexuality is concerned it being lawful does not make it ethical or acceptable as in my state it just became illegal to have sex with animals does that mean to you that somehow before then it was ethical? You used the word lawful.  In your usual way you are pretending we were discussing something different.   Quote Spiritually there is obviously a reason why homosexuality is prohibited or for that matter beastiality is prohibited. From a gratification standpoint any stimulus to the genitals can give great feelings but all things are not allowed. According to your view a mother and son of consenting age should be allowed to have (protected) sex and if not tell me why not? Homosexuality is not prohibited, except by religious bigots as part of their nonsense fantasy world.  Bestiality is prohibited because it does not involve the informed consent of both parties and incest is prohibited because inbreeding produces congenital defects in offspring. Stuart Sorry, but I won't let you get away so easy STU This is what I asked(with a little clarification) Should a (Sterile)mother and (Sterile)son of consenting age be allowed to have sex and if not tell me why not? Second point is how do animals consent with other animals to have sex? Why do you feel that humans and animals cannot have a consentual interaction are animals incapable of knowing what sex is? I am taking you to task so please be careful You are not taking me to task so much as changing the subject again. Although I have a natural aversion to incest, probably built into me by natural selection for very obvious reasons, there is no rational reason why sterile close relatives should not have sex.  Do you think it is a pressing issue? Regarding animals, there is a universally-held ethic, codified in ideas of human rights, that says sex should involve the informed consent of both parties.  Are you arguing that human ethics should be adopted by other species?  Are you saying it is actually possible to gain unambiguous consent from an animal of a different species? Stuart

Okay so we know your for incest if done (Properly)
Now, do you think that animals cannot consent to sex by simply physically showing you that they are interested or not opposed to it?

[Stu]

BD

If you read what I wrote, you will see that I explained why incest is a bad idea.

Please tell us what you think suggestive behaviour from another animal species looks like. You appear to be experienced in this.

Stuart

[theodorej]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 13 2010,07:50)

… Quote (theodorej @ July 12 2010,22:54) Quote (TimothyVI @ July 12 2010,21:05) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 12 2010,15:55) Tell me what did Muhammad do that was barborous that Moses did not do? Actually, I was wondering the same thing. Tim Greetings B…..The actions of a man is indicative of his character ( definition ) Character is…knowing right from wrong and choosing to do what is  right Then his character was perfect according to the scriptures because smashing idols and bringing Monotheism and law to pagan arabs and others throughout the world is Ideal according to the Bible and the Quran. But I must add though that Character has nothing to do with right or wrong at all. Character is simply the qualities or features that distinguish one person from another Even right and wrong is only relevent within a context. Killing is not always wrong if that were the case it would be wrong to eat animals or defend yourself in war.

Greetings B……..To quote ” The Quality ” The Best of,or what is right,rightousness is the highest in quality of behavior that man can possess….as opposed to unrightousness being the lack of quality of behavior that a man can possess…To know what is right is the essense of rightousness and in that knowing you choose to do wrong that is behavior…..Behavior is the product of your decisions….your decisions reflect on your thinking your actions are your behavior….knowing right from wrong and choosing to do wrong is your behavior just as choosing to do what is right is your behavior..

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ July 14 2010,23:02)

BD If you read what I wrote, you will see that I explained why incest is a bad idea. Please tell us what you think suggestive behaviour from another animal species looks like.  You appear to be experienced in this. Stuart

You said incest was a bad idea because of genetics but in my statement I clarified that I was asking you do you approve of incest if the Mother or son or both were sterile, now you run from the question?

I told you I was taking you to task

[bodhitharta]

Quote (theodorej @ July 14 2010,23:57)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 13 2010,07:50) … Quote (theodorej @ July 12 2010,22:54) Quote (TimothyVI @ July 12 2010,21:05) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 12 2010,15:55) Tell me what did Muhammad do that was barborous that Moses did not do? Actually, I was wondering the same thing. Tim Greetings B…..The actions of a man is indicative of his character ( definition ) Character is…knowing right from wrong and choosing to do what is  right Then his character was perfect according to the scriptures because smashing idols and bringing Monotheism and law to pagan arabs and others throughout the world is Ideal according to the Bible and the Quran. But I must add though that Character has nothing to do with right or wrong at all. Character is simply the qualities or features that distinguish one person from another Even right and wrong is only relevent within a context. Killing is not always wrong if that were the case it would be wrong to eat animals or defend yourself in war. Greetings B……..To quote ” The Quality ” The Best of,or what is right,rightousness is the highest in quality of behavior that man can possess….as opposed to unrightousness being the lack of quality of behavior that a man can possess…To know what is right is the essense of rightousness and in that knowing you choose to do wrong that is behavior…..Behavior is the product of your decisions….your decisions reflect on your thinking your actions are your behavior….knowing right from wrong and choosing to do wrong is your behavior just as choosing to do what is right is your behavior..

Actually “Righteousness” is doing what God wants you to, when he wants you to without judging what that is.

When a Prophet of God says to do something you are to do it and when God sends another Prophet you are to heed the new instructions because as it is written

A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
Ecclesiastes 3:2-4

[TimothyVI]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 15 2010,02:39)

When a Prophet of God says to do something you are to do it and when God sends another Prophet you are to heed the new instructions because as it is written

And you know this person is another prophet……………how?

If satan is the great deciever, what makes you think that you can't be decieved?

Tim

[Ed J]

Quote (TimothyVI @ July 15 2010,20:51)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 15 2010,02:39) When a Prophet of God says to do something you are to do it and when God sends another Prophet you are to heed the new instructions because as it is written And you know this person is another prophet……………how? If satan is the great deciever, what makes you think that you can't be decieved? Tim

Hi Tim,

       Excellent Point!

The 'book of fraud' is reported to have been given by Gabriel, but it was really delivered by satan!
It's vital to understand that the 'book of fraud'(=quran book) teaches against The Gospel's message.

Gal.1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you
into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there
be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we,
or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have
preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any
man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

2Cor.11:14-15 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if [Satan's ministers] also be transformed as the
ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[bodhitharta]

Quote (TimothyVI @ July 15 2010,20:51)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 15 2010,02:39) When a Prophet of God says to do something you are to do it and when God sends another Prophet you are to heed the new instructions because as it is written And you know this person is another prophet……………how? If satan is the great deciever, what makes you think that you can't be decieved? Tim

Hi Tim,

Excellent point!

The answer is that all the prophets speak primarily the exact same message and only asserts instructions that usually are primarily concerned with lifting or adding prohibitions.

They would all agree that There is “One God” and hence you find that there was no prophet who created the trinity nor is one claimed to have created such a human invention, no prophet would claim to actually be God and hence such doctrines of God becoming man and man becoming God are not from true Prophets.

God is a Spirit.

Satan deceives by trying to violate the sovereign worship of God alone.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ July 15 2010,21:58)

Quote (TimothyVI @ July 15 2010,20:51) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 15 2010,02:39) When a Prophet of God says to do something you are to do it and when God sends another Prophet you are to heed the new instructions because as it is written And you know this person is another prophet……………how? If satan is the great deciever, what makes you think that you can't be decieved? Tim Hi Tim,        Excellent Point! The 'book of fraud' is reported to have been given by Gabriel, but it was really delivered by satan! It's vital to understand that the 'book of fraud'(=quran book) teaches against The Gospel's message. Gal.1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 2Cor.11:14-15 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if [Satan's ministers] also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

What does this mean?

Quote

into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another;

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 12 2010,09:54)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 12 2010,13:51) Bod you didnt answer my question. its recorded what these men did wrong. Yet mohammeds life is not recoreded in the Quran. Answer my question directly Quote So answer me directly, do you not care abotu how Mohammed lived his life as he proclaimed allah? No, I don't care and neither does Jesus Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. John 8:14-16 Is this direct enough for you?

Bod,
Jesus also said to watch out for FALSE PROPHETS.

and the apostles warned of other false gospels

ANYWAYS thats besides the point.

you should care, not about judging a soul, but whether to believe him or not.

here is the difference.

PAUL was a messed up man, killed alot of poeple.
point being is that he changed.

Mohammed in the other hand, did not, he continued his ways, and did many other things that some are recorded and others not.

Pauls testimony matters to me,

i cannot phantom the belief system you have, if you do not care about mohammeds life,

how would you know?
where do youl look for?
how would you beleive him if you werent there?

these are legit questions.

why should anyone believe him?

belief and judging and two different things.

****OH BY THE WAY! nice try with that counter-attack about Jesus. Smart of you.
but unnessary defensive stradegy.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 16 2010,21:07)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 12 2010,09:54) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 12 2010,13:51) Bod you didnt answer my question. its recorded what these men did wrong. Yet mohammeds life is not recoreded in the Quran. Answer my question directly Quote So answer me directly, do you not care abotu how Mohammed lived his life as he proclaimed allah? No, I don't care and neither does Jesus Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. John 8:14-16 Is this direct enough for you? Bod, Jesus also said to watch out for FALSE PROPHETS. and the apostles warned of other false gospels ANYWAYS thats besides the point. you should care, not about judging a soul, but whether to believe him or not. here is the difference. PAUL was a messed up man, killed alot of poeple. point being is that he changed. Mohammed in the other hand, did not, he continued his ways, and did many other things that some are recorded and others not. Pauls testimony matters to me, i cannot phantom the belief system you have, if you do not care about mohammeds life, how would you know? where do youl look for? how would you beleive him if you werent there? these are legit questions. why should anyone believe him? belief and judging and two different things. ****OH BY THE WAY! nice try with that counter-attack about Jesus.  Smart of you. but unnessary defensive stradegy.

If God selected Muhammad to recieve the revelation of the Quran his character had to be acceptable to God. The proff that he was/is a true prophet is from the fruit he produced because as Moses he destroyed all Idols and today there are 1.5 billion Pure Monotheists that exclusively worship THE GOD of Abraham that would still be worshiping Idols.

And while there is turbulence and violence today it does nothing to take away from that fact not to mention that according to the scriptures there MUST BE wars and rumours of wars.

So the answer to your question is yes, I do care about how Muhammad lived his life in such a way that God chose him

[bodhitharta]

Jeremiah 6:13-14 (New King James Version)
13 “ Because from the least of them even to the greatest of them,
Everyone is given to covetousness;
And from the prophet even to the priest,
Everyone deals falsely.
14 They have also healed the hurt of My people slightly,
Saying, ‘Peace, peace!’
When there is no peace.

Ezekiel 13:15-17 (New King James Version)
15 “Thus will I accomplish My wrath on the wall and on those who have plastered it with untempered mortar; and I will say to you, ‘The wall is no more, nor those who plastered it, 16 that is, the prophets of Israel who prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and who see visions of peace for her when there is no peace,’” says the Lord GOD.

False prophets are those that try to sooth the people instead of telling them what God has said or revealed.

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote

If God selected Muhammad to recieve the revelation of the Quran his character had to be acceptable to God. The proff that he was/is a true prophet is from the fruit he produced because as Moses he destroyed all Idols and today there are 1.5 billion Pure Monotheists that exclusively worship THE GOD of Abraham that would still be worshiping Idols. And while there is turbulence and violence today it does nothing to take away from that fact not to mention that according to the scriptures there MUST BE wars and rumours of wars. So the answer to your question is yes, I do care about how Muhammad lived his life in such a way that God chose him

Hold your horses Bod,

dont go back what you said now,
you see thats why i like being clear,
and not playing games.

You Said

Quote

No, I don't care and neither does Jesus Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. John 8:14-16 Is this direct enough for you?

and now your saying that you care?
I dont understand?
How do you just change your mind.
wow your human after all.

how do you know what mohammed did in his life, if you dont read anything but the quran and the bible.
So tell me how do you learn about him,
where are your sources,
and we all know that this man did alot of crazy bad things after these “revelations.”

Prove to me that God chose him?
in what way was he speacial that God chose him?

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 16 2010,20:56)

Jeremiah 6:13-14 (New King James Version) 13 “ Because from the least of them even to the greatest of them,      Everyone is given to covetousness;      And from the prophet even to the priest,      Everyone deals falsely.       14 They have also healed the hurt of My people slightly,      Saying, ‘Peace, peace!’      When there is no peace. Ezekiel 13:15-17 (New King James Version) 15 “Thus will I accomplish My wrath on the wall and on those who have plastered it with untempered mortar; and I will say to you, ‘The wall is no more, nor those who plastered it, 16 that is, the prophets of Israel who prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and who see visions of peace for her when there is no peace,’” says the Lord GOD. False prophets are those that try to sooth the people instead of telling them what God has said or revealed.

False prophets are those who are lieing to the people,

if true Prophets speak truth,
than false speak lies

[bodhitharta]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 17 2010,05:38)

Quote If God selected Muhammad to recieve the revelation of the Quran his character had to be acceptable to God. The proff that he was/is a true prophet is from the fruit he produced because as Moses he destroyed all Idols and today there are 1.5 billion Pure Monotheists that exclusively worship THE GOD of Abraham that would still be worshiping Idols. And while there is turbulence and violence today it does nothing to take away from that fact not to mention that according to the scriptures there MUST BE wars and rumours of wars. So the answer to your question is yes, I do care about how Muhammad lived his life in such a way that God chose him Hold your horses Bod, dont go back what you said now, you see thats why i like being clear, and not playing games. You Said Quote No, I don't care and neither does Jesus Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. John 8:14-16 Is this direct enough for you? and now your saying that you care? I dont understand? How do you just change your mind. wow your human after all. how do you know what mohammed did in his life, if you dont read anything but the quran and the bible. So tell me how do you learn about him, where are your sources, and we all know that this man did alot of crazy bad things after these “revelations.” Prove to me that God chose him? in what way was he speacial that God chose him?

What sources do you have to prove anything about Jesus, the Bible is a single source, so if you discount the Quran you have only one source to teach you anything about Jesus.

How do you know what Jesus did in his life enough to doubt what the Quran says about Jesus?

I don't know of any crazy bad things that Muhammad did can you inform me of such things?

God must have chose him if you believe in God otherwise would Satan have 1.5 billion people serving the God of Abraham?

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 17 2010,01:38)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 17 2010,05:38) Quote If God selected Muhammad to recieve the revelation of the Quran his character had to be acceptable to God. The proff that he was/is a true prophet is from the fruit he produced because as Moses he destroyed all Idols and today there are 1.5 billion Pure Monotheists that exclusively worship THE GOD of Abraham that would still be worshiping Idols. And while there is turbulence and violence today it does nothing to take away from that fact not to mention that according to the scriptures there MUST BE wars and rumours of wars. So the answer to your question is yes, I do care about how Muhammad lived his life in such a way that God chose him Hold your horses Bod, dont go back what you said now, you see thats why i like being clear, and not playing games. You Said Quote No, I don't care and neither does Jesus Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. John 8:14-16 Is this direct enough for you? and now your saying that you care? I dont understand? How do you just change your mind. wow your human after all. how do you know what mohammed did in his life, if you dont read anything but the quran and the bible. So tell me how do you learn about him, where are your sources, and we all know that this man did alot of crazy bad things after these “revelations.” Prove to me that God chose him? in what way was he speacial that God chose him? What sources do you have to prove anything about Jesus, the Bible is a single source, so if you discount the Quran you have only one source to teach you anything about Jesus. How do you know what Jesus did in his life enough to doubt what the Quran says about Jesus? I don't know of any crazy bad things that Muhammad did can you inform me of such things? God must have chose him if you believe in God otherwise would Satan have 1.5 billion people serving the God of Abraham?

Lol bod,

I congradulate you on your diversional tactic,

so you just wont answer my question,
which is it bod?
You see why i dont like games?

Quote

God must have chose him if you believe in God otherwise would Satan have 1.5 billion people serving the God of Abraham?

AS you said most of them are ignorant and ony believe in ALLAH.
so there for i believe that satan has 1.5 billion serving allah not the God of abraham.

[Author]

Posts