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Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 08 2010,13:07) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2010,08:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 07 2010,12:29) Is Jesus God? Yes or No?
Bdno, Jesus is not God
Jesus came with love and understanding
Muhammad came with a sword and violent brutality.
witch one came from God,or witch one reflects more the qualities of God.?
witch one recieved from God the approval and declared his son?
Pierre
Do you just think this stuff up?Yet there are men who take (for worship) others besides Allah, as equal (with Allah.: They love them as they should love Allah. But those of Faith are overflowing in their love for Allah. If only the unrighteous could see, behold, they would see the penalty: that to Allah belongs all power, and Allah will strongly enforce the penalty.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #165)Jesus said the same thing about God but you don't believe.
bodyou know better the koran than the bible,so you quote more,and only comment your opinion wen you talk about Christ,
you as well do not answer the ask question ,
who is the unbeliever here?
is it not you ,who sitting on a sawhorse,koran on one side and the bible on the other side,so you are neither hot or cold,
if you are not aware of Muhammed starting operations i be glad to forward it to you.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2010,08:10) Jesus came with love and understanding Muhammad came with a sword and violent brutality.
Revelation 19:15!Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Oct. 08 2010,16:20) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2010,08:10) Jesus came with love and understanding Muhammad came with a sword and violent brutality.
Revelation 19:15!Stuart
stuwith an answer like that one ,me too i would cover my face;
allegory,;Rev 19:15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
Rev 19:16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
so what you try to say is that Muhammad is the false prophet because he copy what was in the bible but apply it literally and so use extreme violence for his message ??
this i can understand.and agree with.
Pierre
Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 08 2010,11:48) Go Stu, Go! I knew you believed in God.. You even speaking Scriptural truth. – yow!!
Who said anything about truth?Stuart
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2010,09:37) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 08 2010,16:20) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2010,08:10) Jesus came with love and understanding Muhammad came with a sword and violent brutality.
Revelation 19:15!Stuart
stuwith an answer like that one ,me too i would cover my face;
allegory,;Rev 19:15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
Rev 19:16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
so what you try to say is that Muhammad is the false prophet because he copy what was in the bible but apply it literally and so use extreme violence for his message ??
this i can understand.and agree with.
Pierre
You believe that you must accept a human sacrifice in order to live a good life and be saved from your own religious crimes. In this way Jesus-belief is just as immoral in its violence as a muslim's.Perhaps whichever “John” is was that wrote Revelation did not really understand the significance of the fable of Jesus failing to stone the adulteress to death. That was the law, which Jesus supposedly said he did not come to abolish, and allegedly he was the only one without sin who could have done it but he broke that law even by his own word.
I guess that is where the tradition of not really going through with your religion's beliefs began, in the mythology of Jesus. So at least you have the good grace not to do it as written in the Jewish holy book, and not emulate the extreme violence of your god (who may or may not BE Jesus) in enacting what you believe to be religious law, unlike those who take islam literally and do exact violence on others.
If you want to paint christianity as a substitute for the islamic claim of “religion of peace” then Luke 19:27, Matthew 15:4, Matthew 25:41, Acts 13:11, Romans 1:32, 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 2:23, Revelation 4:11 (is the guinea worm created for your god's pleasure?) need some explaining.
As for islamists making that peaceful claim, how much more tasteless and sick in the head could they be?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Oct. 09 2010,03:10) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2010,09:37) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 08 2010,16:20) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2010,08:10) Jesus came with love and understanding Muhammad came with a sword and violent brutality.
Revelation 19:15!Stuart
stuwith an answer like that one ,me too i would cover my face;
allegory,;Rev 19:15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
Rev 19:16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
so what you try to say is that Muhammad is the false prophet because he copy what was in the bible but apply it literally and so use extreme violence for his message ??
this i can understand.and agree with.
Pierre
You believe that you must accept a human sacrifice in order to live a good life and be saved from your own religious crimes. In this way Jesus-belief is just as immoral in its violence as a muslim's.Perhaps whichever “John” is was that wrote Revelation did not really understand the significance of the fable of Jesus failing to stone the adulteress to death. That was the law, which Jesus supposedly said he did not come to abolish, and allegedly he was the only one without sin who could have done it but he broke that law even by his own word.
I guess that is where the tradition of not really going through with your religion's beliefs began, in the mythology of Jesus. So at least you have the good grace not to do it as written in the Jewish holy book, and not emulate the extreme violence of your god (who may or may not BE Jesus) in enacting what you believe to be religious law, unlike those who take islam literally and do exact violence on others.
If you want to paint christianity as a substitute for the islamic claim of “religion of peace” then Luke 19:27, Matthew 15:4, Matthew 25:41, Acts 13:11, Romans 1:32, 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 2:23, Revelation 4:11 (is the guinea worm created for your god's pleasure?) need some explaining.
As for islamists making that peaceful claim, how much more tasteless and sick in the head could they be?
Stuart
stuyou do not answer the context,and like to be in control,
here i found this in your scriptures;Ro 13:10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
this sums it up
just if you do not know it ;the Koran is not the THORRA (LAW)
the law that God gived to the Hebrew people,Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2010,06:58) Quote bod you know better the koran than the bible,so you quote more,and only comment your opinion wen you talk about Christ,
I actually know the bible better since I have been studying the bible for over 30 years and the Quaran for only about 6 or 7 years.
Quote you as well do not answer the ask question , How is that?
Quote who is the unbeliever here? You already labeled yourself an Agnostic so therefore you claim to have no knowledge that God exists, stop playing!
Quote is it not you ,who sitting on a sawhorse,koran on one side and the bible on the other side,so you are neither hot or cold, Actually, they are both on the same side so no sawhorse at all, but you have already admitted that you have no knowledge on this.
Quote if you are not aware of Muhammed starting operations i be glad to forward it to you. You have no knowledge. Do you know about Moses and those he slayed. You are right you have no knowledge but I do.
God Bless You!
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 09 2010,09:03) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 09 2010,03:10) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2010,09:37) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 08 2010,16:20) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2010,08:10) Jesus came with love and understanding Muhammad came with a sword and violent brutality.
Revelation 19:15!Stuart
stuwith an answer like that one ,me too i would cover my face;
allegory,;Rev 19:15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
Rev 19:16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
so what you try to say is that Muhammad is the false prophet because he copy what was in the bible but apply it literally and so use extreme violence for his message ??
this i can understand.and agree with.
Pierre
You believe that you must accept a human sacrifice in order to live a good life and be saved from your own religious crimes. In this way Jesus-belief is just as immoral in its violence as a muslim's.Perhaps whichever “John” is was that wrote Revelation did not really understand the significance of the fable of Jesus failing to stone the adulteress to death. That was the law, which Jesus supposedly said he did not come to abolish, and allegedly he was the only one without sin who could have done it but he broke that law even by his own word.
I guess that is where the tradition of not really going through with your religion's beliefs began, in the mythology of Jesus. So at least you have the good grace not to do it as written in the Jewish holy book, and not emulate the extreme violence of your god (who may or may not BE Jesus) in enacting what you believe to be religious law, unlike those who take islam literally and do exact violence on others.
If you want to paint christianity as a substitute for the islamic claim of “religion of peace” then Luke 19:27, Matthew 15:4, Matthew 25:41, Acts 13:11, Romans 1:32, 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 2:23, Revelation 4:11 (is the guinea worm created for your god's pleasure?) need some explaining.
As for islamists making that peaceful claim, how much more tasteless and sick in the head could they be?
Stuart
stuyou do not answer the context,and like to be in control,
here i found this in your scriptures;Ro 13:10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
this sums it up
just if you do not know it ;the Koran is not the THORRA (LAW)
the law that God gived to the Hebrew people,Pierre
Once again more ignorance. The Torah tells the most bloody tales of any book. About slaying with the sword and this was the religion of Jesus. Learn:Thus the Jews smote all their enemies with the stroke of the sword, and slaughter, and destruction, and did what they would unto those that hated them.
Esther 9:4-6There are so many verses regarding slaying and the sword but you must have not read the Totah at all to not know this.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2010,18:30) terraricca,Oct. wrote:[/quote]
Quote bod you know better the koran than the bible,so you quote more,and only comment your opinion wen you talk about Christ,
I actually know the bible better since I have been studying the bible for over 30 years and the Quaran for only about 6 or 7 years.
Quote you as well do not answer the ask question , How is that?
Quote who is the unbeliever here? You already labeled yourself an Agnostic so therefore you claim to have no knowledge that God exists, stop playing!
Quote is it not you ,who sitting on a sawhorse,koran on one side and the bible on the other side,so you are neither hot or cold, Actually, they are both on the same side so no sawhorse at all, but you have already admitted that you have no knowledge on this.
Quote if you are not aware of Muhammed starting operations i be glad to forward it to you. You have no knowledge. Do you know about Moses and those he slayed. You are right you have no knowledge but I do.
God Bless You!
bodit is obvious you have no knowledge ,just a big ego,
understanding in not seen in your answers ,
Pierre
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2010,18:44) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 09 2010,09:03) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 09 2010,03:10) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2010,09:37) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 08 2010,16:20) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2010,08:10) Jesus came with love and understanding Muhammad came with a sword and violent brutality.
Revelation 19:15!Stuart
stuwith an answer like that one ,me too i would cover my face;
allegory,;Rev 19:15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
Rev 19:16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
so what you try to say is that Muhammad is the false prophet because he copy what was in the bible but apply it literally and so use extreme violence for his message ??
this i can understand.and agree with.
Pierre
You believe that you must accept a human sacrifice in order to live a good life and be saved from your own religious crimes. In this way Jesus-belief is just as immoral in its violence as a muslim's.Perhaps whichever “John” is was that wrote Revelation did not really understand the significance of the fable of Jesus failing to stone the adulteress to death. That was the law, which Jesus supposedly said he did not come to abolish, and allegedly he was the only one without sin who could have done it but he broke that law even by his own word.
I guess that is where the tradition of not really going through with your religion's beliefs began, in the mythology of Jesus. So at least you have the good grace not to do it as written in the Jewish holy book, and not emulate the extreme violence of your god (who may or may not BE Jesus) in enacting what you believe to be religious law, unlike those who take islam literally and do exact violence on others.
If you want to paint christianity as a substitute for the islamic claim of “religion of peace” then Luke 19:27, Matthew 15:4, Matthew 25:41, Acts 13:11, Romans 1:32, 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 2:23, Revelation 4:11 (is the guinea worm created for your god's pleasure?) need some explaining.
As for islamists making that peaceful claim, how much more tasteless and sick in the head could they be?
Stuart
stuyou do not answer the context,and like to be in control,
here i found this in your scriptures;Ro 13:10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
this sums it up
just if you do not know it ;the Koran is not the THORRA (LAW)
the law that God gived to the Hebrew people,Pierre
Once again more ignorance. The Torah tells the most bloody tales of any book. About slaying with the sword and this was the religion of Jesus. Learn:Thus the Jews smote all their enemies with the stroke of the sword, and slaughter, and destruction, and did what they would unto those that hated them.
Esther 9:4-6There are so many verses regarding slaying and the sword but you must have not read the Totah at all to not know this.
bodonce more you confirm your ignorance in your answers .
the koran is what does keep his members in fear ,a poor copy of the bible centered on one man who never did anything but killing.
but you can not see it
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 09 2010,12:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2010,18:30) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2010,06:58) Quote bod you know better the koran than the bible,so you quote more,and only comment your opinion wen you talk about Christ,
I actually know the bible better since I have been studying the bible for over 30 years and the Quaran for only about 6 or 7 years.
Quote you as well do not answer the ask question , How is that?
Quote who is the unbeliever here? You already labeled yourself an Agnostic so therefore you claim to have no knowledge that God exists, stop playing!
Quote is it not you ,who sitting on a sawhorse,koran on one side and the bible on the other side,so you are neither hot or cold, Actually, they are both on the same side so no sawhorse at all, but you have already admitted that you have no knowledge on this.
Quote if you are not aware of Muhammed starting operations i be glad to forward it to you. You have no knowledge. Do you know about Moses and those he slayed. You are right you have no knowledge but I do.
God Bless You!
bodit is obvious you have no knowledge ,just a big ego,
understanding in not seen in your answers ,
Pierre
Then you haven't read the TorahQuote (terraricca @ Oct. 09 2010,12:47) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2010,18:44) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 09 2010,09:03) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 09 2010,03:10) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2010,09:37) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 08 2010,16:20) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2010,08:10) Jesus came with love and understanding Muhammad came with a sword and violent brutality.
Revelation 19:15!Stuart
stuwith an answer like that one ,me too i would cover my face;
allegory,;Rev 19:15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
Rev 19:16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
so what you try to say is that Muhammad is the false prophet because he copy what was in the bible but apply it literally and so use extreme violence for his message ??
this i can understand.and agree with.
Pierre
You believe that you must accept a human sacrifice in order to live a good life and be saved from your own religious crimes. In this way Jesus-belief is just as immoral in its violence as a muslim's.Perhaps whichever “John” is was that wrote Revelation did not really understand the significance of the fable of Jesus failing to stone the adulteress to death. That was the law, which Jesus supposedly said he did not come to abolish, and allegedly he was the only one without sin who could have done it but he broke that law even by his own word.
I guess that is where the tradition of not really going through with your religion's beliefs began, in the mythology of Jesus. So at least you have the good grace not to do it as written in the Jewish holy book, and not emulate the extreme violence of your god (who may or may not BE Jesus) in enacting what you believe to be religious law, unlike those who take islam literally and do exact violence on others.
If you want to paint christianity as a substitute for the islamic claim of “religion of peace” then Luke 19:27, Matthew 15:4, Matthew 25:41, Acts 13:11, Romans 1:32, 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 2:23, Revelation 4:11 (is the guinea worm created for your god's pleasure?) need some explaining.
As for islamists making that peaceful claim, how much more tasteless and sick in the head could they be?
Stuart
stuyou do not answer the context,and like to be in control,
here i found this in your scriptures;Ro 13:10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
this sums it up
just if you do not know it ;the Koran is not the THORRA (LAW)
the law that God gived to the Hebrew people,Pierre
Once again more ignorance. The Torah tells the most bloody tales of any book. About slaying with the sword and this was the religion of Jesus. Learn:Thus the Jews smote all their enemies with the stroke of the sword, and slaughter, and destruction, and did what they would unto those that hated them.
Esther 9:4-6There are so many verses regarding slaying and the sword but you must have not read the Totah at all to not know this.
bodonce more you confirm your ignorance in your answers .
the koran is what does keep his members in fear ,a poor copy of the bible centered on one man who never did anything but killing.
but you can not see it
Pierre
You don't know what your even talking about. Have you heard about Saladinand how during the crusades when he took over Jerusalem:So, though at the first he had affirmed that as the Christians had shed much blood, so should their blood be shed, he afterwards relented. In the end it was agreed that such as were native born, whether they were Christians or no, might remain in the city and live in peace, but they who had come thither from foreign lands should depart [114] within forty days, and the Caliph gave his word that they should suffer no harm on their journey. Also, it was covenanted that for each man should be paid ten pieces of gold, and for each woman five pieces, and for each child one; and that such as could not so purchase their freedom should be slaves for ever. But of these conditions he relaxed not a little, for he was ever a man of a liberal heart and an open hand. So the city of Jerusalem was taken again out of the hands of the Christians.
http://www.mainlesson.com/display….saladin
You need to learn about history if your going to make foolish statements.
Muhammad made several covenants of peace and protection for the Jews and Christians. Study first, critisize after. That is the way of honesty
Hi Terraricca,
BD is not being truthful! Mohammad broke every piece treaty he ever made…
2Tm.3:1-5 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud,
blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without
natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent,
fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady,
highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power
thereof: from such turn away. (turn away BD!)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 09 2010,21:14) Hi Terraricca, BD is not being truthful! Mohammad broke every piece treaty he ever made…
2Tm.3:1-5 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud,
blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without
natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent,
fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady,
highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power
thereof: from such turn away. (turn away BD!)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)
Information over ignoranceThe Treaty between Muslims, non-Muslim Arabs and Jews of Medina was put in writing and ratified by all parties. It has been preserved by the historians. The document referred Muhammad (pbuh) as the Prophet and Messenger of God but it was understood that the Jews did not have to recognize him as such for their own religious reasons. The major parts of the document were:
“In the name of Allah (The One True God) the Compassionate, the Merciful. This is a document from Muhammad, the Prophet, governing the relation between the Believers from among the Qurayshites (i.e., Emigrants from Mecca) and Yathribites (i.e., the residents of Medina) and those who followed them and joined them and strived with them. They form one and the same community as against the rest of men.
“No Believer shall oppose the client of another Believer. Whosoever is rebellious, or seeks to spread injustice, enmity or sedition among the Believers, the hand of every man shall be against him, even if he be a son of one of them. A Believer shall not kill a Believer in retaliation of an unbeliever, nor shall he help an unbeliever against a Believer.“Whosoever among the Jews follows us shall have help and equality; they shall not be injured nor shall any enemy be aided against them…. No separate peace will be made when the Believers are fighting in the way of Allah…. The Believers shall avenge the blood of one another shed in the way of Allah ….Whosoever kills a Believer wrongfully shall be liable to retaliation; all the Believers shall be against him as one man and they are bound to take action against him.
“The Jews shall contribute (to the cost of war) with the Believers so long as they are at war with a common enemy. The Jews of Banu Najjar, Banu al-Harith, Banu Sa'idah, Banu Jusham, Banu al-Aws, Banu Tha'labah, Jafnah, and Banu al-Shutaybah enjoy the same rights and priviledges as the Jews of Banu Aws.
“The Jews shall maintain their own religion and the Muslims theirs. Loyalty is a protection against treachery. The close friends of Jews are as themselves. None of them shall go out on a military expedition except with the permission of Muhammad, but he shall not be prevented from taking revenge for a wound.
“The Jews shall be responsible for their expenses and the Believers for theirs. Each, if attacked, shall come to the assistance of the other.
“The valley of Yathrib (Medina) shall be sacred and inviolable for all that join this Treaty. Strangers, under protection, shall be treated on the same ground as their protectors; but no stranger shall be taken under protection except with consent of his tribe….No woman shall be taken under protection without the consent of her family.
Whatever difference or dispute between the parties to this covenant remains unsolved shall be referred to Allah and to Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah. Allah is the Guarantor of the piety and goodness that is embodied in this covenant. Neither the Quraysh nor their allies shall be given any protection.
“The contracting parties are bound to help one another against any attack on Yathrib. If they are called to cease hostilities and to enter into peace, they shall be bound to do so in the interest of peace; and if they make a similar demand on Muslims it must be carried out except when the war is agianst their religion.
“Allah approves the truth and goodwill of this covenant. This treaty shall not protect the unjust or the criminal. Whoever goes out to fight as well as whoever stays at home shall be safe and secure in this city unless he has perpetrated an injustice or commited a crime…. Allah is the protector of the good and God-fearing people.”
The first written constitution of a State ever promulgated by a sovereign in human history emanated from the Prophet of Islam. It was enacted from the first year of Hijrah (622 CE). The treaty stipulated a city state in Medina, allowing wide autonomy to communities. Private justice was to be banished. The head of the State had the prerogative to decide who should participate in an expedition, the war and peace being indivisible. Social insurance was to be instituted.
Mohammid in Medina: 622—30
The city hitherto called Yathrib, later renamed Medinat al-Nabi or “City of the Prophet,” was situated on the western edge of the central Arabian plateau. Compared with Mecca it was a climatic Eden, with hundreds of gardens, palm groves, and farms. As Mohammed rode into the town one group after another called to him, “Alight here, 0 Prophet! Abide with us! “And with Arab persistence some caught the halter of his camel to detain him. “The choice lies with the camel; let him advance freely” the advice quieted jealousy, and hallowed his new residence as chosen by God. Where his camel stopped, Mohammed built a mosque and two adjoining homes, one for Sauda, one for Aisha; later he added new apartments as he took new wives.
In leaving Mecca he had snapped many kinship ties; now he tried to replace bonds of blood with those of religious brotherhood in a theocratic state. To mitigate the jealousy already rampant between the Refugees (Muhajirin) from Mecca and the Helpers (Ansar) or converts in Medina, he coupled each member of the one group with a member of the other in adoptive brotherhood, and called both groups to worship in sacred union in the mosque. In the first ceremony held there he mounted the pulpit and cried in a loud voice, “Allah is most great!” The assembly burst forth in the same proclamation.
Then, still standing with his back to the congregation, he bowed in prayer. He descended the pulpit backward, and at its foot he prostrated himself thrice, while continuing to pray. In these prostrations were symbolized that submission of the soul to Allah which gave to the new faith its name Islam” to surrender,” “to make peace”—and to its adherents the kindred name of Musijinin or Moslems—”the surrendering ones,” “those who have made their peace with God.” Turning then to the assembly, Mohammed bade it observe this ritual to the end of time; and to this day it is the form of prayer that Moslems follow, whether at the mosque, or traveling in the desert, or in alien lands. A sermon completed the ceremony, often announcing, in Mohammed's case, a new revelation, and directing the actions and policies of the week.
For the authority of the Prophet was creating a civic rule for Medina; and more and more he was compelled to address his time and inspirations to the practical problems of social organization, daily morals, even to intertribal diplomacy and war. As in Judaism, no distinction was made between secular and religious affairs; all alike came under religious jurisdiction; he was both Caesar and Christ. But not all Medinites accepted his authority.
A majority of the Arabs stood aside as “the Disaffected,” viewed the new creed and its ritual skeptically, and wondered whether Mohammed was destroying their traditions and liberties, and involving them in war. Most of the Medina Jews clung to their own faith, and continued to trade with the Meccan Quraish. Mohammed drew up with these Jews a subtle concordant:
The Jews who attach themselves to our commonwealth shall be protected from all insults and vexations; they shall have an equal right with our own people to our assistance and good offices; they…shall form with the A'loslcms one composite nation; they shall practice their religion as freely as the Moslems…They shall join the Moslems in defending Yathrib against all enemies. All future disputes between those who accept this charter shall be referred, under God, to the Prophet.
All the Jewish tribes of Medina and the surrounding country soon accepted this agreement: the Banu-Nadhir, the Banu-Kuraiza, and the Banu- Kainuka…. The immigration of two hundred Meccan families created a food shortage in Medina. Mohammed solved the problem as starving people do—by taking food where it could be had. In commissioning his lieutenants to raid the caravans that passed Medina, he was adopting the morals of most Arab tribes in his time. When the raids succeeded, four fifths of the spoils went to the raiders, one fifth to the Prophet for religious and charitable uses; the share of a slain raider went to his widow, and he himself at once entered paradise. So encouraged, raids and raiders multiplied, while the merchants of Mecca, whose economic life depended on the security of the caravans, plotted revenge.
One raid scandalized Medina as well as Mecca, for it took place—and killed a man—on the last day of Rajab, one of the sacred months when Arab morality laid a moratorium on violence. In 623 Mohammed himself organized a band of 300-armed men to waylay a rich caravan coming from Syria to Mecca. Abu Sufyan, who commanded the caravan, got wind of the plan, changed his route, and sent to Mecca for help. The Quraish came 900 strong.
The miniature armies met at the Wadi Bedr, twenty miles south of Medina. If Mohammed had been defeated his career might have ended there and then. He personally led his men to victory, ascribed it to Allah as a miracle confirming his leadership, and returned to Medina with rich booty and many prisoners (January, 624). Some of these, who had been especially active in the persecution at Mecca, were put to death; the rest were freed for lucrative ransoms.31 But Abu Sufyan survived, and promised revenge. “Weep not for your slain,” he told mourning relatives in Mecca, “and let no bard bewail their fate. Haply the turn may come, and ye may obtain vengeance. As for me, I will touch no oil, neither approach my wife, until I shall have gone forth again to fight Mohammed.”
Strengthened by victory, Mohammed used the customary morality of war. Asma, a Medinese poetess, having attacked him in her rhymes, Omeir, a blind Moslem, made his way into her room, and plunged his sword so fervently into the sleeping woman's breast that it affixed her to the couch. In the mosque the next morning Mohammed asked Omeir, “Hast thou slain Asma?” “Yes,” answered Omeir, “is there cause for apprehension?” “None,” said the Prophet, “a couple of goats will hardly knock their heads together for it.”
Afak, a centenarian convert to Judaism, composed a satire on the Prophet, and was slain as he slept in his courtyard. A third Medinese poet, Kab ibn al-Ashraf, son of a Jewess, abandoned Islam when Mohammed turned against the Jews; he wrote verses prodding the Quraish to avenge their defeat, and enraged the Moslems by addressing love sonnets to their wives in premature troubadour style. “Who will ease me of this man?” asked Mohammed. That evening the poet's severed head was laid at the Prophet's feet. In the Moslem view these executions were a legitimate defense against treason; Mohammed was the head of a state, and had full authority to condemn.
The Jews of Medina no longer liked this warlike faith, which had once seemed so flatteringly kindred to their own. They laughed at Mohammed's interpretations of their Scriptures, and his claim to be the Messiah promised by their prophets. He retaliated with revelations in which Allah charged the Jews with corrupting the Scriptures, killing the prophets, and rejecting the Messiah. Originally he had made Jerusalem the qibla—the point toward which Moslems should turn in prayer; in 624 he changed this to Mecca and the Kaaba.
The Jews accused him of returning to idolatry. About this time a Moslem girl visited the market of the Banu-Kainuka Jews in Medina; as she sat in a goldsmiths shop a mischievous Jew pinned her skirt behind her to her upper dress. When she arose she cried out in shame at her exposure. A Moslem slew the offending Jew, whose brothers then slew the Moslem. Mohammed marshaled his followers, blockaded the Banu-Kainuka Jews in their quarter for fifteen days, accepted their surrender, and bade them, 700 in number, depart from Medina, and leave all their possessions behind.
We must admire the restraint of Abu Sufyan, who, after his unnatural vow, waited a year before going forth to battle Mohammed again. Early
in 625 he led an army of 3000 men to the hill of Ohod, three miles north of Medina. Fifteen women, including Abu Sufyan's wives, accompanied the army, and stirred it to fervor with wild songs of sorrow and revenge.Mohammed could muster only a thousand warriors. The Moslems were routed; Mohammed fought bravely, received many wounds, and was carried half unconscious from the field. Abu Sufyan's chief wife Hind, whose father, uncle, and brother had been slain at Bedr, chewed the liver of the fallen Hamza— who had slain her father—and made anklets and bracelets for herself from Hamza's skin and nails.
Thinking Mohammed safely dead, Abu Sufyan returned in triumph to Mecca. Six months later the Prophet was sufficiently recovered to attack the Banu-Nadhir Jews, charging them with helping the Quraish and plotting against his life. After three weeks siege they were allowed to emigrate, each family taking with it as much as a camel could carry. Mohammed appropriated some of their rich date orchards for the support of his household, and distributed the remainder among the Refugees.38 He considered himself at war with Mecca, and felt justified in removing hostile groups from his flanks.
In 626 Abu Sufyan and the Quraish resumed the offensive, this time with 10,000 men, and with material aid from the Banu-Kuraiza Jews. Unable to meet such a force in battle, Mohammed defended Medina by having a trench dug around it. The Quraish laid siege for twenty days; then, disheartened by wind and rain, they returned to their homes. Mohammed at once led 3000 men against the Banu-Kuraiza Jews. On surrendering, they were given a choice of Islam or death. They chose death. Their 6oo fighting men were slain and buried in the market place of Medina; their women and children were sold into slavery.
The Prophet had by this time become an able general. During his ten years in Medina he planned sixty-five campaigns and raids, and personally led twenty-seven. But he was also a diplomat, and knew when war should be continued by means of peace. He shared the longings of the Refugees to see their Meccan homes and families, and of both Refugees and Helpers to visit the Kaaba that had in their youth been the hearth of their piety. As the first apostles thought of Christianity as a form and reform of Judaism, so the Moslems thought of Mohammedanism as a change and development of the ancient Meccan ritual.
In 628 Mohammed sent the Quraish an offer of peace, pledging the safety of their caravans in return for permission to fulfill the rites of the annual pilgrimage. The Quraish replied that a year of peace must precede this consent. Mohammed shocked his followers by agreeing; a ten years truce was signed; and the Prophet consoled his raiders by attacking and plundering the Khaibar Jews in their settlement six days journey northeast of Medina.
The Jews defended themselves as well as they could; ninety- three of them died in the attempt; the rest at last surrendered. They were allowed to remain and cultivate the soil, but on condition of yielding all of their property, and half their future produce, to the conqueror. All the survivors were spared except Kinana, their chieftain, and his cousin, who were beheaded for hiding some of their wealth. Mohammed as an added wife took Safiya, a seventeen-year-old Jewish damsel, betrothed to Kinana.
In 629 the Medina Moslems, to the number of 2000, entered Mecca peace- fully; and while the Quraish, to avoid mutual irritations, retired to the hills, Mohammed and his followers made seven circuits of the Kaaba. The Prophet touched the Black Stone reverently with his staff, but led the Moslems in shouting; “There is no god but Allah alone!” Meccans were impressed by the orderly behavior and patriotic piety of the exiles; several influential Quraish, including the future generals Khalid and Amr, adopted the new faith; and some tribes in the neighboring desert offered Mohammed the pledge of their belief for the support of his arms. When he returned to Medina he calculated that he was now strong enough to take Mecca by force.
The ten years truce had eight years to run; but Mohammed alleged that a tribe allied with the Quraish had attacked a Moslem tribe, and thereby voided the truce (630). He gathered 10,000 men, and marched to Mecca.
Abu Sufyan, perceiving the strength of Mohammed's forces, allowed him to enter unopposed. Mohammed responded handsomely by declaring a general amnesty for all but two or three of his enemies. He destroyed the idols in and around the Kaaba, but spared the Black Stone, and sanctioned the kissing of it. He proclaimed Mecca the Holy City of Islam, and decreed that no unbeliever should ever be allowed to set foot on its sacred soil. The Quraish abandoned direct opposition; and the buffeted preacher who had fled from Mecca eight years before was now master of all its life.
Excerpts from Will Durant's The Age of Faith Pages 162-186 Pub. 1950
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 10 2010,10:11) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 09 2010,21:14) Hi Terraricca, BD is not being truthful! Mohammad broke every piece treaty he ever made…
2Tm.3:1-5 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud,
blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without
natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent,
fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady,
highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power
thereof: from such turn away. (turn away BD!)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)
Information over ignoranceThe Treaty between Muslims, non-Muslim Arabs and Jews of Medina was put in writing and ratified by all parties. It has been preserved by the historians. The document referred Muhammad (pbuh) as the Prophet and Messenger of God but it was understood that the Jews did not have to recognize him as such for their own religious reasons. The major parts of the document were:
“In the name of Allah (The One True God) the Compassionate, the Merciful. This is a document from Muhammad, the Prophet, governing the relation between the Believers from among the Qurayshites (i.e., Emigrants from Mecca) and Yathribites (i.e., the residents of Medina) and those who followed them and joined them and strived with them. They form one and the same community as against the rest of men.
“No Believer shall oppose the client of another Believer. Whosoever is rebellious, or seeks to spread injustice, enmity or sedition among the Believers, the hand of every man shall be against him, even if he be a son of one of them. A Believer shall not kill a Believer in retaliation of an unbeliever, nor shall he help an unbeliever against a Believer.“Whosoever among the Jews follows us shall have help and equality; they shall not be injured nor shall any enemy be aided against them…. No separate peace will be made when the Believers are fighting in the way of Allah…. The Believers shall avenge the blood of one another shed in the way of Allah ….Whosoever kills a Believer wrongfully shall be liable to retaliation; all the Believers shall be against him as one man and they are bound to take action against him.
“The Jews shall contribute (to the cost of war) with the Believers so long as they are at war with a common enemy. The Jews of Banu Najjar, Banu al-Harith, Banu Sa'idah, Banu Jusham, Banu al-Aws, Banu Tha'labah, Jafnah, and Banu al-Shutaybah enjoy the same rights and priviledges as the Jews of Banu Aws.
“The Jews shall maintain their own religion and the Muslims theirs. Loyalty is a protection against treachery. The close friends of Jews are as themselves. None of them shall go out on a military expedition except with the permission of Muhammad, but he shall not be prevented from taking revenge for a wound.
“The Jews shall be responsible for their expenses and the Believers for theirs. Each, if attacked, shall come to the assistance of the other.
“The valley of Yathrib (Medina) shall be sacred and inviolable for all that join this Treaty. Strangers, under protection, shall be treated on the same ground as their protectors; but no stranger shall be taken under protection except with consent of his tribe….No woman shall be taken under protection without the consent of her family.
Whatever difference or dispute between the parties to this covenant remains unsolved shall be referred to Allah and to Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah. Allah is the Guarantor of the piety and goodness that is embodied in this covenant. Neither the Quraysh nor their allies shall be given any protection.
“The contracting parties are bound to help one another against any attack on Yathrib. If they are called to cease hostilities and to enter into peace, they shall be bound to do so in the interest of peace; and if they make a similar demand on Muslims it must be carried out except when the war is agianst their religion.
“Allah approves the truth and goodwill of this covenant. This treaty shall not protect the unjust or the criminal. Whoever goes out to fight as well as whoever stays at home shall be safe and secure in this city unless he has perpetrated an injustice or commited a crime…. Allah is the protector of the good and God-fearing people.”
The first written constitution of a State ever promulgated by a sovereign in human history emanated from the Prophet of Islam. It was enacted from the first year of Hijrah (622 CE). The treaty stipulated a city state in Medina, allowing wide autonomy to communities. Private justice was to be banished. The head of the State had the prerogative to decide who should participate in an expedition, the war and peace being indivisible. Social insurance was to be instituted.
bodit looks that EDJ shows reality of what really happen,because your ignorance of the true fact ,do not represent your reality ,
sheat,lies,deceit,brutality,is the history of Islam no?
Bod, where does it say in the Quran that one must study BOTH books and allah will reveal the truth between them
You asked who is the prophet and Jesus said he is not so what now you don't believe Jesus himself?
The jews say: “The christians have naught (to stand) upon; and the christians say: “The jews have naught (To stand) upon.” Yet they (Profess to) study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #113)They say: “Become jews or christians if ye would be guided (To salvation).” Say thou: “Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah.”
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #135)Or do ye say that Abraham, Isma'il Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes were jews or christians? Say: Do ye know better than Allah. Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah. but Allah is not unmindful of what ye do!
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #140)(Both) the jews and the christians say: “We are sons of Allah, and his beloved.” Say: “Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)”
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #18)The jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah.s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #30)Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 10 2010,05:01) bod it looks that EDJ shows reality of what really happen,because your ignorance of the true fact ,do not represent your reality ,
sheat,lies,deceit,brutality,is the history of Islam no?
Get back to me when you actually read the TorahGenesis 34:12-14 (King James Version)
12Ask me never so much dowry and gift, and I will give according as ye shall say unto me: but give me the damsel to wife.
13And the sons of Jacob answered Shechem and Hamor his father deceitfully, and said, because he had defiled Dinah their sister:
14And they said unto them, We cannot do this thing, to give our sister to one that is uncircumcised; for that were a reproach unto us:Genesis 34:24-25 (King James Version)
24And unto Hamor and unto Shechem his son hearkened all that went out of the gate of his city; and every male was circumcised, all that went out of the gate of his city.
25And it came to pass on the third day, when they were sore, that two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brethren, took each man his sword, and came upon the city boldly, and slew all the males.READ before you criticize otherwise it makes you look very silly
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