Creation for people who find it hard

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 14 2013,19:58)

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 14 2013,17:07) Quote (TimothyVI @ Feb. 13 2013,21:39) Hi T8, I actually kind of enjoyed the video. But it lost all credibility when it mentioned Ken Ham and called him a scientist. Calling Ken Ham a scientist is like calling L. Ron Hubbard a prophet. Tim Your restraint, given the wide range of adjectives you could have applied to these two charlatans, is to your great credit! Stuart Okay, so it is plain to see that logic doesn't work on you guys. So I guess you are beyond my help at least. I like logic. Again, know any Atheists that think they are logical. I would like to dialog with them.

Heaping deserved abuse on lying charlatans isn't necessarily subject to much of a logical argument.

Why is it the atheists who are always supposed to have the evidence and logical arguments?

I guess that's what you have come to expect.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 14 2013,20:09)

Stu do you believe that Unicorns exist? Tim is too scared to answer now.

What evidence do you have that Tim is scared? Is that the evidence of the unseen?

Stuart

[charity]

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2013,13:30)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 14 2013,20:09) Stu do you believe that Unicorns exist? Tim is too scared to answer now. What evidence do you have that Tim is scared?  Is that the evidence of the unseen? Stuart

Its the emotions Stu, Its hard to decern wither a reality or a message from God.

Mine say…Tim is stronger than a Lion! an playful as Kitten. in all, a treasure to all man kind…

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2013,16:28)

Heaping deserved abuse on lying charlatans isn't necessarily subject to much of a logical argument. Why is it the atheists who are always supposed to have the evidence and logical arguments? I guess that's what you have come to expect. Stuart

We have personal faith in God. That is experience with God.
You do not.
You crashed our party, we didn't crash yours.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2013,16:30)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 14 2013,20:09) Stu do you believe that Unicorns exist? Tim is too scared to answer now. What evidence do you have that Tim is scared?  Is that the evidence of the unseen? Stuart

Okay, let's see if he answers the question. I want him to, so thanks for helping out Stu.

Tim, after watching that video, do you think that Unicorns exist? Yes, No.

And what about you Stu? Do they exist or not?

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2013,16:28)

Why is it the atheists who are always supposed to have the evidence and logical arguments?

That is the point. You have none.
You say there is no God, and yet you have no clue at all.

[Stu]

Quote (charity @ Feb. 15 2013,13:53)

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2013,13:30) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 14 2013,20:09) Stu do you believe that Unicorns exist? Tim is too scared to answer now. What evidence do you have that Tim is scared?  Is that the evidence of the unseen? Stuart Its the emotions Stu, Its hard to decern wither a reality or a message from God. Mine say…Tim is stronger than a Lion! an playful as Kitten. in all, a treasure to all man kind…

Hear hear.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 14 2013,20:12)

I am sure you can come up with better arguments than them, and I am more confident that you will at least treat good evidence as such instead of just wearing the mocking hat for everything.

Are you claiming you have unambiguous evidence for your god's existence?

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 15 2013,14:22)

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2013,16:28) Heaping deserved abuse on lying charlatans isn't necessarily subject to much of a logical argument. Why is it the atheists who are always supposed to have the evidence and logical arguments? I guess that's what you have come to expect. Stuart We have personal faith in God. That is experience with God. You do not.

Faith isn't experience. It is wishful thinking.

Quote

You crashed our party, we didn't crash yours.

Doesn't sound like it was much of a party until the skeptics arrived.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 15 2013,14:24)

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2013,16:30) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 14 2013,20:09) Stu do you believe that Unicorns exist? Tim is too scared to answer now. What evidence do you have that Tim is scared?  Is that the evidence of the unseen? Stuart Okay, let's see if he answers the question. I want him to, so thanks for helping out Stu. Tim, after watching that video, do you think that Unicorns exist? Yes, No. And what about you Stu? Do they exist or not?

Why don't you give me three options, t8. That will make you appear very impressive then.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 15 2013,14:25)

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2013,16:28) Why is it the atheists who are always supposed to have the evidence and logical arguments? That is the point. You have none. You say there is no God, and yet you have no clue at all.

No clue about what exactly?

I'm all ears. Tell me what clues you have. Let us know what the unambiguous evidence is that gives you so much confidence in your murderous Imaginary Friend.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 14 2013,19:58)

Again, know any Atheists that think they are logical. I would like to dialog with them.

Here's one:

Stuart

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2013,23:24)

No clue about what exactly? I'm all ears.  Tell me what clues you have.  Let us know what the unambiguous evidence is that gives you so much confidence in your murderous Imaginary Friend. Stuart

Ha ha ha. You can't even go past base 1.

Where did the Universe come from

a) Nothing
b) Something
c) Someone

You can't answer this, so you are the one without a clue.

This question believe it or not, covers all possibilities, and if you don't know the answer, then that means you don't know the answer which means you are CLUELESS. Thus why pretend that you know the answer or mock that which you have no understanding of.

No amount of pretending your intelligent can hide the fact that you fail this basic test.

It is quite hilarious because a clueless man is trying to convince us that he has the answer or is adept in knowing that there is no God. Yet a simple probe into what he knows shows he is clueless.

That is you Stu. You are that man.

[Proclaimer]

Stu, do Unicorns exist?

[TimothyVI]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 14 2013,09:19)

So Tim, can you bring yourself to say that you believe in Unicorns?

Do I believe in a unicorn?

I believe that there exists, at least for the time being, a one horned rhinoceros.
If you insist on claiming that this beast is the mythical unicorn that God was taunting Job with while bragging about how great he was, and what a worthless worm Job was, that is your choice.

I also believe that there existed at one time an Elasmotheriom Sibiricum.
No one really knows for sure if it had one horn or merely a knob on it's head
because the keratin of the rhino horn does not survive with the skeletal remains. But I do believe that the animal existed. What you saw in the video was just an artists conception of what he thought the animal may have looked like.

I also believe that T8 is willing to believe many fallacious absurdites in order to support the inerrancy of the bible, and call it logical. That is the definition of illogical.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Feb. 16 2013,01:33)

I believe that there exists, at least for the time being, a one horned rhinoceros.

I believe that there exists, at least for the time being, a one horned rhinoceros. called a Unicorn. And the two horned one, is called Bicornis.

Thank you. You officially believe in Unicorns. Now you have to convince the Unicorn Atheists that they exist. Good luck.

So now that you have changed your mind and now believe that the Unicorn is a real animal and not a mythical horse creature, perhaps other things that you put in the realm of mythology may be real to. Are you open to that possibility?

[TimothyVI]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 15 2013,22:44)

Quote (TimothyVI @ Feb. 16 2013,01:33) I believe that there exists, at least for the time being, a one horned rhinoceros. I believe that there exists, at least for the time being, a one horned rhinoceros. called a Unicorn. And the two horned one, is called Bicornis. Thank you. You officially believe in Unicorns. Now you have to convince the Unicorn Atheists that they exist. Good luck. So now that you have changed your mind and now believe that the Unicorn is a real animal and not a mythical horse creature, perhaps other things that you put in the realm of mythology may be real to. Are you open to that possibility?

Hi T8,
Adding words to what I said and inferring that I said it is a feeble way to think you win a debate.

The one horned rhinoceros is not, and never was called a unicorn.
It is described as having one horn. The scientific name given it was Rhinoceros unicornis.
A name that was never used 3,ooo years ago, but I suppose to you that only proves that Job was a scientist.

It is called a great one horned rhinoceros or greater one horned rhinoceros.
It is also very unlikely that Job ever saw or heard of one, let alone try to put it in his stable.

Good try T8, but in the future at least quote me accurately.

Tim

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 15 2013,22:44)

So now that you have changed your mind and now believe that the Unicorn is a real animal and not a mythical horse creature, perhaps other things that you put in the realm of mythology may be real to. Are you open to that possibility?

So you believe the KJV unicorn is an animal we know today, but you aren't sure what it is. Fair enough. But are you suggesting this means we should also believe there are species of bats that are closely related to birds, and species of snakes and donkeys that can speak human languages? That's your implication.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 15 2013,21:53)

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2013,23:24) No clue about what exactly? I'm all ears.  Tell me what clues you have.  Let us know what the unambiguous evidence is that gives you so much confidence in your murderous Imaginary Friend. Stuart Ha ha ha. You can't even go past base 1.

It’s not me that has to. I don’t have the burden of proof of your extraordinary god claim.

Quote

Where did the Universe come from

Spacetime apparently has the habit of spontaneously expanding from a point and producing matter and energy as it expands, as part of the so-called “fabric” of spacetime. You can see that black holes are a kind of reversal of this trend, space-time going a tiny part of the way backwards.

So, we get:
* spacetime expands rapidly from singularity because that is a property of spacetime in a way not yet
fully understood but one that suggests more than one universe does, or has existed;
*the rapid initial expansion gives a very hot universe full of particles as energy and matter are converted
from the gravitational energy of the expansion;

– quick question for you here, t8. What is the total energy of the universe? – [Answer below]

*further expansion leads to cooling (less energy per square centimetre, say);
*cooling allows quarks to slow down enough to coalesce into hydrogen atoms and helium atoms;
*gravitational collapse of clouds of hydrogen lead to the formation of the first stars (this is just as
interesting area of investigation as the point-expansion of spacetime because we don’t really know how stars form without the presence of dust – the soon-to-be-built Square Kilometre Array telescope will hopefully provide clues about the formation of the first stars);
*the matter in our solar system is third-generation, that is it has been through two stars before. The last star the matter in the planetary disc went through formed a supernova which produced our heavy elements;
*the earth formed by accretion of a disc of dust and gas drawn by the gravity of our sun from the nebula left by that supernova;
*once the earth was cool enough for water to condense, chemistry led to the formation of primitive cells, probably using sulfur from seabed fumaroles for energy (there is a very elegant piece of chemical speculation on YouTube that shows how a fumarole could cause cell-like micelles to form and even evolve biologically, but this is speculation only…if the movie had been produced by a creationist then he would have claimed it as fact);
* single-celled organisms using DNA / RNA would constantly exchange genetic information (as they do to this day)which contributed to their evolution by natural selection;
* the ingestion of one cell capable of a particular kind of metabolism led to a symbiotic relationship which became the line of cells known as eukaryotes containing that separately-reproducing ingested organism known as a mitochondrion;
* cell specialisation led to multicellular species which eventually diverged into plants, animals, fungi to go with the protists and monists.
* a line of one such multicellular animal branched out into many species, one of which was a species of great ape, homo sapiens sapiens, one member of which came to be called Ken Ham, a primate who denied most of the above because he is a moron.

Was there anything else you wanted answering about the universe, t8? As you can see, it is a work in progress that is really still in its childhood. On the other hand, Judeo-christian mythology has been at it for several thousand years but I don’t remember it giving any such details as these. It uses the word god a lot. These god things seem to survive only in the wishful thinking of some homo sapiens. Of course if you have unambiguous evidence that gods are also real, you are welcome to lay it on us.

Come to think of it, that’s what we have been asking from you all along. No one has been holding his breath though.

[Answer: The total energy of the universe is exactly zero. All the negative gravitational energy balances all the positive matter/other forms of energy that exist.]

Stuart

[kerwin]

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 16 2013,00:47)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 15 2013,22:44) So now that you have changed your mind and now believe that the Unicorn is a real animal and not a mythical horse creature, perhaps other things that you put in the realm of mythology may be real to. Are you open to that possibility? So you believe the KJV unicorn is an animal we know today, but you aren't sure what it is.  Fair enough.  But are you suggesting this means we should also believe there are species of bats that are closely related to birds, and species of snakes and donkeys that can speak human languages?  That's your implication. Stuart

Stu,

The LXX mentions the unicorn.

The Europeans most likely didn't have a real grasp of a 1 horned Asian rhinoceros and seemed to have concluded it was horse-like.

The unicorn is actually called a rhino is some early non-English translations.

I would not be surprised if some of the translators of the KJV believed the unicorn was a 1 horned horse.

[Author]

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