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Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 12 2013,07:54) Oh and Wakeup, you asked if the Son was a half brother to us. Well, the Son was the only begotten Son and we are the adopted 'sons.' The Son was the only one to come 'out of' the Father as an offspring before creation. All other things did not come 'out of' the Father. All other things were called into being. The Son was within Him before coming 'out of' Him. Because the Son came 'out of' the Father as a literal and only offspring before creation, He is also the only begotten God.
John 1:18 NASB
I think you are mainly correct here, except the last point.The son was not in God as God, but as the Logos. The Logos is part of God, but that God brought the Logos forth is what many early Church Fathers taught. And remember, that the Logos became flesh. Not the God that the Logos was with.
“For just as from one torch many fires are lighted, but the light of the first torch is not lessened by the kindling of many torches, so the Word, coming forth from the Word-Power of the Father, has not divested of the Word-Power Him who begat Him.”
Tatian (165 A.D)
God was in the beginning, but the beginning, we have been taught, is the power of the Word. For the Lord of the universe, who is Himself the necessary basis of all being, inasmuch as no creature was yet in existence, was alone, but inasmuch as He was all powerful, Himself the necessary ground of things visible and invisible, with Him were all things; with Him, by Word-power, the Word himself also, who was in Him, subsists. And by His simple will the Word sprang forth, and the Word, not coming forth in vain, became the firstbegotten work of the Father . Him [the Word] we know to be the Beginning of the world (cf. Rev. 3:14). But He came into being by participation, not by cutting off, for what is cut off is separated from the original substance, but that which comes by participation, making its choice of function, does not render him deficient from whom it is taken. For just as from one torch many fires are lighted, but the light of the first torch is not lessened by the kindling of many torches, so the Word, coming forth from the Word-Power of the Father, has not divested of the Word-Power Him who begat Him.Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 30 2012,13:54) Can we also add to the false doctrines list; – Jesus has already returned, so no need to look out for him.
So by your standards Eusebius was a crackpot. He said that Christ returned. He was considered as an “extremely well learned Christian of his time.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EusebiusHe wrote:
Quote “But the things which took place afterwards, did our Saviour, from his foreknowledge as THE WORD or GOD, foretel should come to pass, by means of those which are (now) before us. For He named the whole Jewish people, the children of the City; and the Temple, He styled their House. And thus He testified, that they should, on their own wicked account, bear the vengeance thus to be inflicted. And, it is right we should wonder at the fulfilment of this prediction, since at no time did this place undergo such an entire desolation as this was. He pointed out moreover, the cause of their desolation when He said, “If thou hadst known, even in this day, the things of thy peace:” intimating too His own coming, which should be for the peace of the whole world. But, when ye shall see it reduced by armies, know ye that which comes upon it, to be a final and full desolation and destruction. He designates the desolation of Jerusalem, by the destruction of the Temple, and the laying aside of those services which were, according to the law of Moses, formerly performed within it. The manner moreover of the captivity, points out the war. of which He spoke; “For (said He) there shall be (great) tribulation upon the land, and great wrath upon this people : and they shall fall by the edge of the sword.” We can learn too, from the writings of Flavius Josephus, how these things took place in their localities, and how those, which had been foretold by our Saviour, were, in fact, fulfilled. On this account He said, “Let those who are in its borders not enter into it, since these are the days of vengeance, that all may be fulfilled which has been written.” Any one therefore, who desires it, may learn the results of these things from the writings of Josephus. “Since, then, it is evident that our Saviour was anointed uniquely beyond all that ever were with the excellent spiritual, or rather divine unction, He is rightly called “Holy of holies,” as one might say, “High Priest of high priests,” and “Sanctified of the sanctified” according to the oracle of Gabriel.”
“And from that time a succession of all kinds of troubles afflicted the whole nation and their city until the last war against them, and the final siege, in which destruction rushed on them like a flood [Dan. 9:26] with all kinds of misery of famine [Matt. 24:7], plague [Luke 21:21] and sword [Luke 21:24], and all who had conspired against the Saviour in their youth were cut off; then, too, the abomination of desolation stood in the Temple [Matt. 24:15], and it has remained there even till to-day, while they have daily reached deeper depths of desolation.” (The Proof of the Gospel, trans. W. J. Ferrar, 2 vols. in 1 (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1981), 2:138, (403: b-c).)
“The Holy Scriptures foretell that there will be unmistakable signs of the Coming of Christ. Now there were among the Hebrews three outstanding offices of dignity, which made the nation famous, firstly the kingship, secondly that of prophet, and lastly the high priesthood. The prophecies said that the abolition and complete destruction of all these three together would be the sign of the presence of the Christ. And that the proofs that the times had come, would lie in the ceasing of the Mosaic worship, the desolation of Jerusalem and its Temple, and the subjection of the whole Jewish race to its enemies…The holy oracles foretold that all these changes, which had not been made in the days of the prophets of old, would take place at the coming of the Christ, which I will presently shew to have been fulfilled as never before in accordance with the predictions.” (Demonstratio Evangelica VIII)
You have then in this prophecy of the Descent of the Lord among men from heaven, many other things foretold at the same time, the rejection of the Jews, the judgment on their impiety, the destruction of their royal city, the abolition of the worship practised by them of old according to the Law of Moses; and on the other hand, promises of good for the nations, the knowledge of God, a new ideal of holiness, a new law and teaching coming forth from the land of the Jews. I leave you to see, how wonderful a fulfilment, how wonderful a completion, the prophecy has reached after the Coming of our Saviour Jesus Christ.” (Demonstratio Evangelica; Book VI – Chapter 13)
“I have already considered this prophecy among the passages. And I have pointed out that only from the date of our Saviour Jesus Christ's Coming among men have the objects of Jewish reverence, the hill called Zion and Jerusalem, the buildings there, that is to say, the Temple, the Holy of Holies, the Altar, and whatever else was there dedicated to the glory of God, been utterly removed or shaken, in fulfilment of the Word which said: “Behold the Lord, the Lord comes forth from his place, and he shall descend on the high places of the earth, and the mountains shall be shaken under him.” (Demonstratio Evangelica ; Book VIII – Chapter 3)
“When, then, we see what was of old foretold for the nations fulfilled in our own day, and when the lamentation and wailing that was predicted for the Jews, and the burning of the Temple and its utter desolation, can also be seen even now to have occurred according to the prediction, surely we must also agree that the King who was prophesied, the Christ of God, HAS COME, since the signs of His coming have been shewn in each instance I have treated TO HAVE BEEN CLEARLY FULFILLED.” (Demonstratio Evangelica; Book VIII)
Greeting Kangaroo Jack,
How are you?Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 30 2012,13:54)
Can we also add to the false doctrines list;– Jesus has already returned, so no need to look out for him.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 27 2013,10:02)
So by your standards Eusebius was a crackpot.
Who is Eusebius? Is he mentioned in the scriptures? If so where?, because I cannot find his name.Quote He said that Christ returned. He was considered as an “extremely well learned Christian of his time.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusebius
Says who? wikipedia?
Just because Eusebius was considered an extremely well learned Christian of his time by men does not mean that he was filled with the spirit of truth.
So we have to look at his writings to discern if they match the scriptures.Quote He wrote: “But the things which took place afterwards, did our Saviour, from his foreknowledge as THE WORD or GOD, foretel should come to pass, by means of those which are (now) before us. For He named the whole Jewish people, the children of the City; and the Temple, He styled their House.
Scripture please?Quote And thus He testified, that they should, on their own wicked account, bear the vengeance thus to be inflicted. And, it is right we should wonder at the fulfilment of this prediction, since at no time did this place undergo such an entire desolation as this was.
I'm listening still!Quote He pointed out moreover, the cause of their desolation when He said, “If thou hadst known, even in this day, the things of thy peace:” intimating too His own coming, which should be for the peace of the whole world.
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.[/quote]Quote But, when ye shall see it reduced by armies, know ye that which comes upon it, to be a final and full desolation and destruction. He designates the desolation of Jerusalem, by the destruction of the Temple, Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Ok, this must be the scripture Eusebius is referring to.
Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
note: UNTIL the times of the Gentiles be FULFILLED
Can you tell me when the time of the gentiles was fulfilled? When was the door to Christ closed to the gentiles? In 70AD?
The gentiles are still coming to Christ till this day. So this cannot be fulfilled.Acts 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
Did the gospels stop spreading to the gentiles in 70AD? Was that the fulfillment of the gentiles? It takes a long time for the message of Christ to reach the ends of the earth. This must also include ALL GENERATIONS until the end.
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
So if the FULLNESS of the GENTILES came in at 70AD, then Israel would no longer be blind, even to this day!
Quote and the laying aside of those services which were, according to the law of Moses, formerly performed within it. The manner moreover of the captivity, points out the war. of which He spoke; “For (said He) there shall be (great) tribulation upon the land, and great wrath upon this people : and they shall fall by the edge of the sword.” Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
note: and the holy city shall they tread underfoot FORTY AND TWO MONTHS
Revelations is also speaking of Jerusalem being trodden down by the gentiles. Do you think Eusebius made a mistake? Did he not receive the information in Revelations also speaking of the end times regarding Jerusalem being trodden down by the gentiles?
I have to go out now, and am a bit rushed, so I will just leave you with this for now. Please consider those few points and tell me if it makes sense to you so far.
Hi J 42,
Your post is too long. Expect no detailed reply from me. Those days are gone. I am 61 years old now and I don't have it in me. I only wanted to show you that great men have held to the doctrine that Christ has returned. They were/are not crack pots.
I will leave you with this. Jesus told His disciples that THEY would see His return. Was Jesus a false prophet?
Kangaroo wrote:[/quote]
Quote Hi J 42, Your post is too long. Expect no detailed reply from me. Those days are gone. I am 61 years old now and I don't have it in me. I only wanted to show you that great men have held to the doctrine that Christ has returned. They were/are not crack pots.
Hi Kangaroo Jack
61? You are still young! My parents are 65 and more active and sharper than most 20 year olds!
Maybe this is not the place for long reply's, but I like defending with scripture and reasoning.
We have to stop trusting in men, and just search the scriptures for themselves. Don't forget the devil has set out to distort the truth from the beginning. This is why we have so many doctrines amongst christians. We should be united, same truth, same teachings. I believe Christ has not returned, and is going to. We should all be ready for him. We are given the signs.
Quote I will leave you with this. Jesus told His disciples that THEY would see His return. Was Jesus a false prophet?
Can you please give me this scripture so I can look at it in it's context.Quote (journey42 @ Aug. 28 2013,14:34) Can you please give me this scripture so I can look at it in its context.
Jesus told Caiaphas and his associates that THEY would see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power AND coming in the clouds of heaven (Matthew 26:64).He told His disciples that some of THEM would not taste death til they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom (Matthew 16:28)
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Sep. 04 2013,04:50) Quote (journey42 @ Aug. 28 2013,14:34) Can you please give me this scripture so I can look at it in its context.
Jesus told Caiaphas and his associates that THEY would see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power AND coming in the clouds of heaven (Matthew 26:64).He told His disciples that some of THEM would not taste death til they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom (Matthew 16:28)
Kangeroo jack.Thats a good question,but you should know by the scriptures that Christ has not returned yet.
Because 40 years later John was shown in revelation
the coming of Christ *in future*. And *every eye* shall see him coming in the clouds,and them also who *pireced him*(the jews).rev.1:7.Is it not possible that they(jews) will be brought back to life just to witness the coming?
Regarding matt.16:28. this has happened *6days* later;
*only three* saw the *VISION*Matthew 17:1 *And after six* days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Matthew 17:2 And was *transfigured* before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
That was just a *VISION* of the transfiguration;not the second coming. Because Christ was not cricified and resurrected yet.
wakeup.
Wake up wrote:
Quote Kangeroo jack. Thats a good question,but you should know by the scriptures that Christ has not returned yet.
Because 40 years later John was shown in revelation
the coming of Christ *in future*. And *every eye* shall see him coming in the clouds,and them also who *pireced him*(the jews).rev.1:7.
The Greek does NOT support the idea that “every eye” in the sense you mean it was to witness Christ's return. It is qualified as “those who pierced Him.”Every eye shall see Him, that is, those who pierced Him shall mourn because of Him.
Quote Is it not possible that they(jews) will be brought back to life just to witness the coming?
No!Quote Regarding matt.16:28. this has happened *6days* later;
*only three* saw the *VISION*
Jesus was NOT referring to His transgiguration. He said that some of THEM “would not taste death” til they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. He connected it with the judgment. He said, “He shall reward every man according to His works.” Did Christ reward men at His transfiguration?Try again
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Sep. 12 2013,05:38) Wake up wrote: Quote Kangeroo jack. Thats a good question,but you should know by the scriptures that Christ has not returned yet.
Because 40 years later John was shown in revelation
the coming of Christ *in future*. And *every eye* shall see him coming in the clouds,and them also who *pireced him*(the jews).rev.1:7.
The Greek does NOT support the idea that “every eye” in the sense you mean it was to witness Christ's return. It is qualified as “those who pierced Him.”Every eye shall see Him, that is, those who pierced Him shall mourn because of Him.
Quote Is it not possible that they(jews) will be brought back to life just to witness the coming?
No!Quote Regarding matt.16:28. this has happened *6days* later;
*only three* saw the *VISION*
Jesus was NOT referring to His transgiguration. He said that some of THEM “would not taste death” til they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. He connected it with the judgment. He said, “He shall reward every man according to His works.” Did Christ reward men at His transfiguration?Try again
Jacksome times you are impressing me ,good quote ;
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Sep. 12 2013,10:38) Wake up wrote: Quote Kangeroo jack. Thats a good question,but you should know by the scriptures that Christ has not returned yet.
Because 40 years later John was shown in revelation
the coming of Christ *in future*. And *every eye* shall see him coming in the clouds,and them also who *pireced him*(the jews).rev.1:7.
The Greek does NOT support the idea that “every eye” in the sense you mean it was to witness Christ's return. It is qualified as “those who pierced Him.”Every eye shall see Him, that is, those who pierced Him shall mourn because of Him.
Quote Is it not possible that they(jews) will be brought back to life just to witness the coming?
No!Quote Regarding matt.16:28. this has happened *6days* later;
*only three* saw the *VISION*
Jesus was NOT referring to His transgiguration. He said that some of THEM “would not taste death” til they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. He connected it with the judgment. He said, “He shall reward every man according to His works.” Did Christ reward men at His transfiguration?Try again
Kangaroo Jack.Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, **There be some standing here**, which shall not taste of death, till they *see* the Son of man *coming in his kingdom*.
JESUS HAD TO BE TRANSFIGURED TO COME IN HIS KINGDOM,AND SPEAK TO MOSES AND ELIJAH.
THEY WERE THE THREE,JAMES JOHN AND HIS BROTHER
SAW THE KINGDOM OF GOD IN A VISION.
*THEY SAW*,(BUT ARE NOT IN), MOSES AND ELIJAH IN THE KINGDOM.
THIS IS NOT THE COMING,FOR HE IS NOT YET CRUCIFIED.Matthew 17:1 *And after six days* Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Matthew 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
STRAIGHT JUST AFTER SIX DAYS THEY WERE SHOWN THE KINGDOM. JUST SHOWN,JUST A GLIMPSE:BUT JESUS WAS *IN* HIS KINGDOM. NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COMING.
wakeup.
WAKEUP
Quote
Posted: Sep. 12 2013,12:53QUOTE
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Sep. 12 2013,10:38)
Wake up wrote:
Quote
Kangeroo jack.Thats a good question,but you should know by the scriptures that Christ has not returned yet.
Because 40 years later John was shown in revelation
the coming of Christ *in future*. And *every eye* shall see him coming in the clouds,and them also who *pireced him*(the jews).rev.1:7.The Greek does NOT support the idea that “every eye” in the sense you mean it was to witness Christ's return. It is qualified as “those who pierced Him.”
Every eye shall see Him, that is, those who pierced Him shall mourn because of Him.
Quote
Is it not possible that they(jews) will be brought back to life just to witness the coming?No!
Quote
Regarding matt.16:28. this has happened *6days* later;
*only three* saw the *VISION*Jesus was NOT referring to His transgiguration. He said that some of THEM “would not taste death” til they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. He connected it with the judgment. He said, “He shall reward every man according to His works.” Did Christ reward men at His transfiguration?
Try again
Kangaroo Jack.
Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, **There be some standing here**, which shall not taste of death, till they *see* the Son of man *coming in his kingdom*.
JESUS HAD TO BE TRANSFIGURED TO COME IN HIS KINGDOM,AND SPEAK TO MOSES AND ELIJAH.
THEY WERE THE THREE,JAMES JOHN AND HIS BROTHER
SAW THE KINGDOM OF GOD IN A VISION.
*THEY SAW*,(BUT ARE NOT IN), MOSES AND ELIJAH IN THE KINGDOM.
THIS IS NOT THE COMING,FOR HE IS NOT YET CRUCIFIED.I think you did not understand the transfiguration ,or did you
please explain more Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 12 2013,21:07) WAKEUP Quote
Posted: Sep. 12 2013,12:53QUOTE
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Sep. 12 2013,10:38)
Wake up wrote:
Quote
Kangeroo jack.Thats a good question,but you should know by the scriptures that Christ has not returned yet.
Because 40 years later John was shown in revelation
the coming of Christ *in future*. And *every eye* shall see him coming in the clouds,and them also who *pireced him*(the jews).rev.1:7.The Greek does NOT support the idea that “every eye” in the sense you mean it was to witness Christ's return. It is qualified as “those who pierced Him.”
Every eye shall see Him, that is, those who pierced Him shall mourn because of Him.
Quote
Is it not possible that they(jews) will be brought back to life just to witness the coming?No!
Quote
Regarding matt.16:28. this has happened *6days* later;
*only three* saw the *VISION*Jesus was NOT referring to His transgiguration. He said that some of THEM “would not taste death” til they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. He connected it with the judgment. He said, “He shall reward every man according to His works.” Did Christ reward men at His transfiguration?
Try again
Kangaroo Jack.
Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, **There be some standing here**, which shall not taste of death, till they *see* the Son of man *coming in his kingdom*.
JESUS HAD TO BE TRANSFIGURED TO COME IN HIS KINGDOM,AND SPEAK TO MOSES AND ELIJAH.
THEY WERE THE THREE,JAMES JOHN AND HIS BROTHER
SAW THE KINGDOM OF GOD IN A VISION.
*THEY SAW*,(BUT ARE NOT IN), MOSES AND ELIJAH IN THE KINGDOM.
THIS IS NOT THE COMING,FOR HE IS NOT YET CRUCIFIED.I think you did not understand the transfiguration ,or did you
please explain more
Terra.
I do fully understand.
To the three man saw *a vision* only.
But for Christ it was real;therfore he had to be transfigured to *come into* his kingdom to meet with the two prophets. Take notice: *not heaven*; but his kingdom.Because Moses and Elijah are not resurrected yet,
because Christ has to be *the first* resurrected,in spirit.
Moses and Elijah were translated,in the flesh,and so was Enoch.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 12 2013,21:33) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 12 2013,21:07) WAKEUP Quote
Posted: Sep. 12 2013,12:53QUOTE
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Sep. 12 2013,10:38)
Wake up wrote:
Quote
Kangeroo jack.Thats a good question,but you should know by the scriptures that Christ has not returned yet.
Because 40 years later John was shown in revelation
the coming of Christ *in future*. And *every eye* shall see him coming in the clouds,and them also who *pireced him*(the jews).rev.1:7.The Greek does NOT support the idea that “every eye” in the sense you mean it was to witness Christ's return. It is qualified as “those who pierced Him.”
Every eye shall see Him, that is, those who pierced Him shall mourn because of Him.
Quote
Is it not possible that they(jews) will be brought back to life just to witness the coming?No!
Quote
Regarding matt.16:28. this has happened *6days* later;
*only three* saw the *VISION*Jesus was NOT referring to His transgiguration. He said that some of THEM “would not taste death” til they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. He connected it with the judgment. He said, “He shall reward every man according to His works.” Did Christ reward men at His transfiguration?
Try again
Kangaroo Jack.
Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, **There be some standing here**, which shall not taste of death, till they *see* the Son of man *coming in his kingdom*.
JESUS HAD TO BE TRANSFIGURED TO COME IN HIS KINGDOM,AND SPEAK TO MOSES AND ELIJAH.
THEY WERE THE THREE,JAMES JOHN AND HIS BROTHER
SAW THE KINGDOM OF GOD IN A VISION.
*THEY SAW*,(BUT ARE NOT IN), MOSES AND ELIJAH IN THE KINGDOM.
THIS IS NOT THE COMING,FOR HE IS NOT YET CRUCIFIED.I think you did not understand the transfiguration ,or did you
please explain more
Terra.
I do fully understand.
To the three man saw *a vision* only.
But for Christ it was real;therfore he had to be transfigured to *come into* his kingdom to meet with the two prophets. Take notice: *not heaven*; but his kingdom.Because Moses and Elijah are not resurrected yet,
because Christ has to be *the first* resurrected,in spirit.
Moses and Elijah were translated,in the flesh,and so was Enoch.wakeup.
WAKEUPno ,that it is not ;
the three figures are the ;promise MOSES ;ELIJAH ,are the works that must be done ; and Christ stands for THE FULFILLMENT ,OF IT ALL ,
LIKE” MISSION ACCOMPLISHED “
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 13 2013,02:39) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 12 2013,21:33) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 12 2013,21:07) WAKEUP Quote
Posted: Sep. 12 2013,12:53QUOTE
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Sep. 12 2013,10:38)
Wake up wrote:
Quote
Kangeroo jack.Thats a good question,but you should know by the scriptures that Christ has not returned yet.
Because 40 years later John was shown in revelation
the coming of Christ *in future*. And *every eye* shall see him coming in the clouds,and them also who *pireced him*(the jews).rev.1:7.The Greek does NOT support the idea that “every eye” in the sense you mean it was to witness Christ's return. It is qualified as “those who pierced Him.”
Every eye shall see Him, that is, those who pierced Him shall mourn because of Him.
Quote
Is it not possible that they(jews) will be brought back to life just to witness the coming?No!
Quote
Regarding matt.16:28. this has happened *6days* later;
*only three* saw the *VISION*Jesus was NOT referring to His transgiguration. He said that some of THEM “would not taste death” til they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. He connected it with the judgment. He said, “He shall reward every man according to His works.” Did Christ reward men at His transfiguration?
Try again
Kangaroo Jack.
Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, **There be some standing here**, which shall not taste of death, till they *see* the Son of man *coming in his kingdom*.
JESUS HAD TO BE TRANSFIGURED TO COME IN HIS KINGDOM,AND SPEAK TO MOSES AND ELIJAH.
THEY WERE THE THREE,JAMES JOHN AND HIS BROTHER
SAW THE KINGDOM OF GOD IN A VISION.
*THEY SAW*,(BUT ARE NOT IN), MOSES AND ELIJAH IN THE KINGDOM.
THIS IS NOT THE COMING,FOR HE IS NOT YET CRUCIFIED.I think you did not understand the transfiguration ,or did you
please explain more
Terra.
I do fully understand.
To the three man saw *a vision* only.
But for Christ it was real;therfore he had to be transfigured to *come into* his kingdom to meet with the two prophets. Take notice: *not heaven*; but his kingdom.Because Moses and Elijah are not resurrected yet,
because Christ has to be *the first* resurrected,in spirit.
Moses and Elijah were translated,in the flesh,and so was Enoch.wakeup.
WAKEUPno ,that it is not ;
the three figures are the ;promise MOSES ;ELIJAH ,are the works that must be done ; and Christ stands for THE FULFILLMENT ,OF IT ALL ,
LIKE” MISSION ACCOMPLISHED “
Terra.Can you please explain more?
wakup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 12 2013,22:01) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 13 2013,02:39) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 12 2013,21:33) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 12 2013,21:07) WAKEUP Quote
Posted: Sep. 12 2013,12:53QUOTE
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Sep. 12 2013,10:38)
Wake up wrote:
Quote
Kangeroo jack.Thats a good question,but you should know by the scriptures that Christ has not returned yet.
Because 40 years later John was shown in revelation
the coming of Christ *in future*. And *every eye* shall see him coming in the clouds,and them also who *pireced him*(the jews).rev.1:7.The Greek does NOT support the idea that “every eye” in the sense you mean it was to witness Christ's return. It is qualified as “those who pierced Him.”
Every eye shall see Him, that is, those who pierced Him shall mourn because of Him.
Quote
Is it not possible that they(jews) will be brought back to life just to witness the coming?No!
Quote
Regarding matt.16:28. this has happened *6days* later;
*only three* saw the *VISION*Jesus was NOT referring to His transgiguration. He said that some of THEM “would not taste death” til they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. He connected it with the judgment. He said, “He shall reward every man according to His works.” Did Christ reward men at His transfiguration?
Try again
Kangaroo Jack.
Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, **There be some standing here**, which shall not taste of death, till they *see* the Son of man *coming in his kingdom*.
JESUS HAD TO BE TRANSFIGURED TO COME IN HIS KINGDOM,AND SPEAK TO MOSES AND ELIJAH.
THEY WERE THE THREE,JAMES JOHN AND HIS BROTHER
SAW THE KINGDOM OF GOD IN A VISION.
*THEY SAW*,(BUT ARE NOT IN), MOSES AND ELIJAH IN THE KINGDOM.
THIS IS NOT THE COMING,FOR HE IS NOT YET CRUCIFIED.I think you did not understand the transfiguration ,or did you
please explain more
Terra.
I do fully understand.
To the three man saw *a vision* only.
But for Christ it was real;therfore he had to be transfigured to *come into* his kingdom to meet with the two prophets. Take notice: *not heaven*; but his kingdom.Because Moses and Elijah are not resurrected yet,
because Christ has to be *the first* resurrected,in spirit.
Moses and Elijah were translated,in the flesh,and so was Enoch.wakeup.
WAKEUPno ,that it is not ;
the three figures are the ;promise MOSES ;ELIJAH ,are the works that must be done ; and Christ stands for THE FULFILLMENT ,OF IT ALL ,
LIKE” MISSION ACCOMPLISHED “
Terra.Can you please explain more?
wakup.
Moses ,received the promise that GOD WILL SEND A PROPHET LIKE HIM ,DOING THE SAME THING ;RIGHT ?YESELIJAH; THIS FIGURE YOU GOING HAVE TO READ THE ENTIRE BOOK OF HIS HISTORY ,I BELIEVE IT IS IN THE BOOK OF 'king 1,2″ ,go slowly and make sure ,you understand what realy happen then ;it will be crucial, to understand who his CHRIST and why all the things are coming -+ ;
the figure of Christ beside them both ;SHOW ALL IN THE THREE FIGURES ;FULL FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS
BUT I THINK THEIR IS MORE ;CAN NOT TALK ABOUT IT NOW
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 12 2013,17:53) Kangaroo Jack. Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, **There be some standing here**, which shall not taste of death, till they *see* the Son of man *coming in his kingdom*.
JESUS HAD TO BE TRANSFIGURED TO COME IN HIS KINGDOM,AND SPEAK TO MOSES AND ELIJAH.
THEY WERE THE THREE,JAMES JOHN AND HIS BROTHER
SAW THE KINGDOM OF GOD IN A VISION.
*THEY SAW*,(BUT ARE NOT IN), MOSES AND ELIJAH IN THE KINGDOM.
THIS IS NOT THE COMING,FOR HE IS NOT YET CRUCIFIED.Matthew 17:1 *And after six days* Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Matthew 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
STRAIGHT JUST AFTER SIX DAYS THEY WERE SHOWN THE KINGDOM. JUST SHOWN,JUST A GLIMPSE:BUT JESUS WAS *IN* HIS KINGDOM. NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COMING.
wakeup.
Wakeup,Your interpretation doesn't work for the most obvious reason I have aready shown. Jesus said that when the Son of Man comes, “THEN He shall reward every man according to his works.”
Jesus did NOT reward men at His transfiguration. Come on!
But here is another argument against your interpretation. Jesus told Caiaphas the high priest that he would also see the Son of Man come (Matthew 26:64).
Caiaphas did NOT witness the transfiguration.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Sep. 13 2013,05:17) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 12 2013,17:53) Kangaroo Jack. Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, **There be some standing here**, which shall not taste of death, till they *see* the Son of man *coming in his kingdom*.
JESUS HAD TO BE TRANSFIGURED TO COME IN HIS KINGDOM,AND SPEAK TO MOSES AND ELIJAH.
THEY WERE THE THREE,JAMES JOHN AND HIS BROTHER
SAW THE KINGDOM OF GOD IN A VISION.
*THEY SAW*,(BUT ARE NOT IN), MOSES AND ELIJAH IN THE KINGDOM.
THIS IS NOT THE COMING,FOR HE IS NOT YET CRUCIFIED.Matthew 17:1 *And after six days* Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Matthew 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
STRAIGHT JUST AFTER SIX DAYS THEY WERE SHOWN THE KINGDOM. JUST SHOWN,JUST A GLIMPSE:BUT JESUS WAS *IN* HIS KINGDOM. NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COMING.
wakeup.
Wakeup,Your interpretation doesn't work for the most obvious reason I have aready shown. Jesus said that when the Son of Man comes, “THEN He shall reward every man according to his works.”
Jesus did NOT reward men at His transfiguration. Come on!
But here is another argument against your interpretation. Jesus told Caiaphas the high priest that he would also see the Son of Man come (Matthew 26:64).
Caiaphas did NOT witness the transfiguration.
KangarooJack.Please note:
Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall *not taste of death*, till they see the Son of man*coming *in* his kingdom*.
Visiting his kingdom.
*Not* coming in clouds and **every eye shall see**.
**Not coming before he is resurrected*
**Not coming before he is crucified**.1. He was not crucified, nor resurrected yet, when this happened.
2. The second coming is to *destroy babylon,and to *SETUP*his kingdom on earth. *Then* he will have his reward with him.Caiphas obviously did not see that vision,did he?
What you are saying is, that at the coming,only three will see.
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which **must shortly come to pass**; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
BUT YOU SAY ITS ALREADY HAPPENED.
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the **first begotten of the dead**, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
HE WAS NOT DEAD YET DURING THE VISION,WAS HE?
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh **with clouds**; and **every eye shall see him**, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
YOU SAY THAT ONLY THREE SAW HIM.
wakeup.
Wakeup wrote:
Quote Please note: Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall *not taste of death*, till they see the Son of man*coming *in* his kingdom*.
Visiting his kingdom.
*Not* coming in clouds and **every eye shall see**.
**Not coming before he is resurrected*
**Not coming before he is crucified**.
Jesus came back in ad70 and some of the disciples were still alive. Jesus told Caiaphas that he would see Him come.Quote Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh **with clouds**; and **every eye shall see him**, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. YOU SAY THAT ONLY THREE SAW HIM.
Hold on there bro! I did NOT say that only three would see Him. Here is what I said,Quote The Greek does NOT support the idea that “every eye” in the sense you mean it was to witness Christ's return. It is qualified as “those who pierced Him.” Every eye shall see Him, that is, those who pierced Him shall mourn because of Him.
Revelation 1:7 on its own merit requires only that those who pierced Him would see Him. It does NOT disallow for others to see Him. My point was that Revelation 1:7 is NOT a proof text for the idea that every eye in the sense you mean MUST see Him.Jesus said that He would return in the clouds. This implies that He would be hidden from view. So the only way anyone could see Him would be by a special vision. Paul saw the risen Jesus by a special vision. The other two men who were with Him saw nothing (Acts 9).
Jesus promised His disciples that some of them would see Him before they died. If the disciples did not see Him, then Jesus was a false prophet. Furthermore, Jesus told His disciples that He was going away and that the world would see Him “no more.” Then He said that they will see Him again in a “little while” (John 14).
The Jewish historian Josephus and the Gentile historian Tacticus recorded EYE WITNESS ACCOUNTS of those who saw Him. http://www.purelybiblical.com/ftp/D/Destruction_of_Jerusalem.pdf
KangarooJack.
I have to disagree.
KJ.QUOTE:
Jesus came back in ad70 and some of the disciples were still alive. Jesus told Caiaphas that he would see Him come.UNQUOTE:HOW MANY SECOND COMINGS ARE THERE? TWO/THREE?
Matthew 24:29 **Immediately after the tribulation** of those days shall **the sun be darkened**, **and the moon shall not give her light**, **and the stars shall fall from heaven**, and the **powers of the heavens shall be shaken**:
Matthew 24:30 **And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven**: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall **see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven** with power and great glory**.
DID ALL THAT HAPPEN,IN THE VISION OF MATT.
16:28/ 17:1.2.3.??Quote
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh **with clouds**; and **every eye shall see him**, and they also which pierced him: and ****all kindreds of the earth**** shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.YOU SAY THAT ONLY THREE SAW HIM.
QUOTE:
Hold on there bro! I did NOT say that only three would see Him. Here is what I said,UNQUOTE:BUT YOU SAID THAT VISION IN MATT.17:2.3
IS THE SECOND COMING.QUOTE:
The Greek does NOT support the idea that “every eye” in the sense you mean it was to witness Christ's return. It is qualified as “those who pierced Him.”UNQUOTE.THE GREEK DONT SUPPORT IT,BUT THE SCRIPTURE IS CLEAR: EVERY EYE SHALL SEE, AND ALL KINDREDS OF THE EARH SHALL WAIL. AND THE JEWISH PEOPLE.
NOT NECESSARY THE OLD RABIES.QUOTE:
Revelation 1:7 on its own merit requires only that those who pierced Him would see Him. It does NOT disallow for others to see Him. My point was that Revelation 1:7 is NOT a proof text for the idea that every eye in the sense you mean MUST see Him. UNQUOTE:IS THAT BECAUSE YOU CAN NOT MAKE SENSE OF IT
AND SO IT CAN NOT BE THE CASE.QUOTE:
Jesus said that He would return in the clouds. This implies that He would be hidden from view. So the only way anyone could see Him would be by a special vision. Paul saw the risen Jesus by a special vision. The other two men who were with Him saw nothing (Acts 9).
UNQUOTE.IS HE ALSO NOT COMING LIKE LIGHTNING,AND ALL HIS SAINTS WITH HIM? ARE THEY NOT BRIGHT IN APPEARENCE? *MILLIONS* OF ANGELS IN THE ATMOSPHERE?
QUOTE:
Jesus promised His disciples that some of them would see Him before they died. If the disciples did not see Him, then Jesus was a false prophet. Furthermore, Jesus told His disciples that He was going away and that the world would see Him “no more.” Then He said that they will see Him again in a “little while” (John 14).UNQUOTE:THAT HAPPENED WHEN HE WAS IN THE TOMB FOR THEE DAYS; AND THEN CAME TO SHOW HIMSELF TO MARY FIRST, AND THEN STAYED ON EARTH FOR 40 DAYS.
QUOTE:
The Jewish historian Josephus and the Gentile historian Tacticus recorded EYE WITNESS ACCOUNTS of those who saw Him. http://www.purelybiblical.com/ftp/D/Destruction_of_Jerusalem.pdf UNQUOTE:ONLY THREE SAW THE *VISION*
Caiphas did not see the vision.wakeup.
WAKEUP
Quote Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall *not taste of death*, till they see the Son of man*coming *in* his kingdom*. AC 7:37 “This is the Moses who said to the sons of Israel, ‘GOD WILL RAISE UP FOR YOU A PROPHET LIKE ME FROM YOUR BRETHREN.’
AC 7:38 “This is the one who was in the congregation in the wilderness together with the angel who was speaking to him on Mount Sinai, and who was with our fathers; and he received living oracles to pass on to you.
AC 7:39 “Our fathers were unwilling to be obedient to him, but repudiated him and in their hearts turned back to Egypt,
AC 7:40 SAYING TO AARON, `MAKE FOR US GODS WHO WILL GO BEFORE US; FOR THIS MOSES WHO LED US OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT—WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM.’
AC 7:41 “ At that time they made a calf and brought a sacrifice to the idol, and were rejoicing in the works of their hands.
AC 7:42 “But God turned away and delivered them up to serve the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, ‘IT WAS NOT TO ME THAT YOU OFFERED VICTIMS AND SACRIFICES FORTY YEARS IN THE WILDERNESS, WAS IT, O HOUSE OF ISRAEL?
AC 7:43 ‘YOU ALSO TOOK ALONG THE TABERNACLE OF MOLOCH AND THE STAR OF THE GOD ROMPHA, THE IMAGES WHICH YOU MADE TO WORSHIP. I ALSO WILL REMOVE YOU BEYOND BABYLON.’
AC 7:44 “Our fathers had the tabernacle of testimony in the wilderness, just as He who spoke to Moses directed him to make it according to the pattern which he had seen.
AC 7:45 “And having received it in their turn, our fathers brought it in with Joshua upon dispossessing the nations whom God drove out before our fathers, until the time of David.
AC 7:46 “David found favor in God’s sight, and asked that he might find a dwelling place for the God of Jacob.
AC 7:47 “But it was Solomon who built a house for Him.
AC 7:48 “However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands; as the prophet says:
AC 7:49 ‘HEAVEN IS MY THRONE,
AND EARTH IS THE FOOTSTOOL OF MY FEET;
WHAT KIND OF HOUSE WILL YOU BUILD FOR ME?’ says the Lord,
‘OR WHAT PLACE IS THERE FOR MY REPOSE?
AC 7:50 ‘WAS IT NOT MY HAND WHICH MADE ALL THESE THINGS?’
AC 7:51 “You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
AC 7:52 “ Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? They killed those who had previously announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become;
AC 7:53 you who received the law as ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it.”Quote AC 7:54 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the quick, and they began gnashing their teeth at him.
AC 7:55 But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God;
AC 7:56 and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of Godwas Stephen one that was standing their when Christ says the words ;MT 16:28 “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
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