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Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,09:38) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,14:13) WHAT?! Can you get three days and three nights from Friday to Sunday? The RCC did nothing wrong?!
**sigh** You are so intent on proving you are right that you totally missed that I agreed with you an the death and resurrection of Yeshua. But you did not see it because you have blinded yourself with a sort of self righteous rage.And I have many, many disagreements with the RCC. Did I say they did nothing wrong? No. But again, you see what you want from my response because you are bound and determined to be right. That is one thing I have noticed in your various posts: you are always right. I'll have to read some more, but no matter what someone posts to you, you find fault. This is another reason I assume that you are a spiritual Pharisee.
Quote Let's see do i worship Mary, no. Do I kneel before men, No! Do I believe in the Trinity, NO! Do I believe in their Sabbath, NO! Do I pray to saints, NO! Do I call them father, NO! I don't know of any truth that they have. Not even that Jesus is the Son of god because they turn right arouns and say Jesus IS God!
I have not studied the RCC enough to agree or disagree with you. But if I were to find one thing that you and the RCC agreed with, would you change to be unlike them? Even if it was scriptural? I hope not.Quote So NO! I don't believe anything the Harlot has, YOU?
I don't study the “harlot”. Let me ask you, do you know any Catholics? I hope you don't call them “children of the Harlot”. I'd rather hope you would help them see where they were wrong but do so in the spirit of Yeshua. Not a hateful, self-righteous “I'm right, you're wrong” attitude.Quote And I'm not angry, but I am upset that you would deny scripture to keep the Harlot's false doctrines. But your not alone the path is WIDE and there are MANY that are on it.
And I am saddened that have turned so many away with your responses because they show very little love and patience. You could be so effective but instead you do harm. That is why I typically do not respond to your posts. Negativity sucks the life out of me, and whether you want to see it or not, your posts are full of it.Quote There is nothing more I can do. I wish I could shake the dust off my feet but HE won't let me. I'll let you ponder as to Why?
The dust does not come from me. The dust is your own making. You seek righteousness in the Law yet you only speak of the 10 Commandments. And when people come on here who have been in RCC spin-off religions for years and need help in understanding the falseness of the many doctrines, you flog them for their beliefs. This is what makes my heart heavy.Quote **sigh** You are so intent on proving you are right that you totally missed that I agreed with you an the death and resurrection of Yeshua. But you did not see it because you have blinded yourself with a sort of self righteous rage. No kejonn you said you agree if you agree why discuss it. Do you want to pat each other on the back.
You go against the very law and nature of God by siding with the Catholic church (some seem to get offended if I say what she is the Harlot).
History even tells you that it was the harlot who changed the Sabbath. The catholic church (Harlot) even admits that there is no scripture that changes the Sabbath. She BOAST that SHE did and you follow in her foot steeps which means you keep her doctrine and if you keep her doctrine then you are IN HER!
“Come out of he MY people”
You are not in her because you don't believe just one of her lies? All of her daughters do this they choose which lie not to believe and start a church. Give Satan his due because he has fooled most of Christianity.
Let me say this again when God says to remember His Sabbath He is saying to remember the seventh day BECAUSE the seventh day is the only day with a NAME.
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,08:52) Quote (Laurel @ Aug. 11 2007,12:54) Kejonn,
Look at the calendar. The first day is Sunday, the 7th day is Sabbath. Do a serch on the web for what the 7th day is called in other languages and that should be proof enough for you.
Laurel,
I know which day is the observed Sabbath. My point in relating to Ken is that he beats this into people and thinks that he is more righteous than they because he observes the Sabbath. I personally do not have an issue with it and it is something that I will be looking to change since I have left the Baptist Church anyways.But I've seen Ken point his virtual finger at too many people over this issue to continue to ignore it. He has been very hurtful in his approach and this just tells me he has become more than a spiritual Jew, he has become a spiritual Pharisee. He could encourage in grace and love — as Christ would have done — but he insists on a different, much harsher approach. So it is no wonder people stiffen their spine and start getting offended.
I am not offended. I am saddened that a man who could do much for the cause of Christ instead turns many away with his brazen approach.
You know which day but you don't obey, WOW! Now all you have to do is repent!
To spite all the scriptures that say to keep God's Commandments you choose NOT too. And follow you own ideas .Sorry but you still keep the doctrines of the Catholic Church.
Yes I'm pointing my finger at YOU because you keep her doctrines the changing of the law of God. You refuse to keep the forth commandment because you are deceived. I'm sorry if the light is too bright.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,02:24) Ken, You get all uptight and act like you are showing us truth in the scripture. I ask you to show me where the Sabbath is evening Friday to evening Saturday according to scripture, and you've yet to do so. All you say is “The bible is a Jewish book” or “look at the calendar”. You practice strict legalism based upon what you believe, but yet you can not substantially back up your beliefs other than using CAPS and appearing to “froth” at the keyboard.
Its obvious that you still do not understand exactly why Yeshua came. He came because he knew people were seeking righteousness by fulfilling the Law, but in turn not understanding what the Law truly signified. The Jews of his day were the case. Like them, you point your finger at “transgressors” and tell them they can't be true. They pointed their finger at Yeshua, and you point your finger at those who I believe to honestly love God. But in doing so, you appoint yourself as judge. Did God appoint you, or is this something you've decided to do on your own?
You assume that if someone doesn't keep Saturday Sabbath, they are not showing they love God. Yet I know many people that have more love in their little toe for God and fellow man who don't observe the Saturday Sabbath. Do to mean to rob them of their sincerity and love of God because you feel that they are not obeying the Sabbath as you feel it is to be obeyed? Yes, I say you, because you still have yet to back up Saturday Sabbath with scripture. Until then, it is you.
Quote You assume that if someone doesn't keep Saturday Sabbath, they are not showing they love God. Yet I know many people that have more love in their little toe for God and fellow man who don't observe the Saturday Sabbath. Do to mean to rob them of their sincerity and love of God because you feel that they are not obeying the Sabbath as you feel it is to be obeyed? Yes, I say you, because you still have yet to back up Saturday Sabbath with scripture. Until then, it is you. You still don't get it do you. I'm just the messenger I didn't write:
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
OH I love God but I won't do what he wants!
What is the love of God? That we keep His commandments.
This is the fruit of my love for God! What's yours that you will keep the day you choose. That is the same as keeping the Harlots day. You have her attitude! Sorry if the truth hurts.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Ken,
First, I want to apologize for being harsh. It is never my intention to be so, but it is a human failing. I have had a heavy heart since I posted earlier and I knew it was due to my responses to you. That is truly one of the reasons we have the Holy Spirit. You and I may be 1000s of miles away (or even next door and not know it
), but I'm still concerned about the way I may treat you regardless of this. Anyways, lets start off on a new level, shall we?I want to know what you feel about the following scripture passages. This is truly NOT a “trap” but I want your feedback. It will help me to define where you and I are one Old Covenant vs New Covenant. That IS what this thread is about, right?
2Cr 3:5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,
2Cr 3:6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Cr 3:7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,
2Cr 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?
2Cr 3:9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.
————————————————————
Gal 4:8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
————————————————————
Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day–
Col 2:17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.Again, I repeat, this is not a “trap” but a sincere desire to see how you view the above.
Thanks!
Kejonn,
How many more scriptures do you want? Time is getting short playtime is over! It's time to get serious VERY serious.
But you and others are like the brides who fell asleep and ran out of oil in their lamp.
Which day in scripture has a name?
And what is the number of this ONLY day with a name?
So when God says to remember His Sabbath which day is HE speaking of?
You won't listen to scripture may be you will listen to common sense.
Kenrch……> remember when Jesus said “the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath. I also believe we should honor the sabbath and try to rest on it. But there is somthing I think you may be overlooking Jesus also said he was also (LIKE US ) Lord of the sabbath. What that means is we can us it as we choose it's up to us. God not going to smash us if we don't keep it. The sabbath is a blessing to us a special time of refreshment and should be a delight something to look forward to. God said he blessed it so we recieve of that blessing if we observe it. But if we don't we simply loose out of that blessing, it's not so much a matter of law as a matter of blessing.
Peace to you …….geneThe true Sabbath to remember, is that we enter or rest as God did on the seventh day; not to choose a day of the week? Perhaps that is for us to cease from attempting to recreating others into our own likeness and Image; and allow the Lord of the Sabbaths;
Hbr 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. Hbr 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his. ¶ Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Man as Inferior gods even; not eternal; but having power over others lives; Having eaten exceedingly more knowledge; that they proceed to execute judgments that we arrive every week to cling to their Dunhill’s
Gen 3:5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Gen 3:22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Yet one that has inherited this from the Garden; can be as a god choosing to eat from the Good instead of the evil side of tree of Knowledge;To be worthy then after of the rights to eat from the tree of Life; returning tobe inercent of evil; All are Intitled to the remission of sins for every aftercharity
Kenrch…..> remember Paul said by works of law no flesh would be justified before God. Law is forced compliance and being force to obey God's commandments dosn't work the old testement proved that. But we apart from law (forced compliance) keep Gods commandments through a new and living way. God has taken out of us the stoney heart and given us hearts of flesh and wrote his commamdments on the tablets of human hearts.
peace to you brother…….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 12 2007,16:03) Kenrch……> remember when Jesus said “the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath. I also believe we should honor the sabbath and try to rest on it. But there is somthing I think you may be overlooking Jesus also said he was also (LIKE US ) Lord of the sabbath. What that means is we can us it as we choose it's up to us. God not going to smash us if we don't keep it. The sabbath is a blessing to us a special time of refreshment and should be a delight something to look forward to. God said he blessed it so we recieve of that blessing if we observe it. But if we don't we simply loose out of that blessing, it's not so much a matter of law as a matter of blessing.
Peace to you …….gene
OH! There is only nine Commandments the forth one is our choice.
Quote it's not so much a matter of law as a matter of blessing. It's not a matter of law? Is that why it's in the Ten commandments that God wrote in stone?
So in the New testament where scripture says to keep God's commandments that means all but the forth.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
How many commandments Nine or Ten?
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,15:29) Ken, First, I want to apologize for being harsh. It is never my intention to be so, but it is a human failing. I have had a heavy heart since I posted earlier and I knew it was due to my responses to you. That is truly one of the reasons we have the Holy Spirit. You and I may be 1000s of miles away (or even next door and not know it
), but I'm still concerned about the way I may treat you regardless of this. Anyways, lets start off on a new level, shall we?I want to know what you feel about the following scripture passages. This is truly NOT a “trap” but I want your feedback. It will help me to define where you and I are one Old Covenant vs New Covenant. That IS what this thread is about, right?
2Cr 3:5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,
2Cr 3:6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Cr 3:7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,
2Cr 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?
2Cr 3:9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.
————————————————————
Gal 4:8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
————————————————————
Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day–
Col 2:17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.Again, I repeat, this is not a “trap” but a sincere desire to see how you view the above.
Thanks!
The law is written on our heart and not on stone. We walk not according to the letter of the law but the Spirit.This is why Jesus made the Law spiritual:
Mat 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.I have said this over and over and over. We are to keep the law spiritual. Does that mean that the Ten commandments have been nailed to the cross.
The law is written on our hearts not thrown away!
Gal. 4 is speaking of the law of Moses and not God's law.
You have to understand that there is a separation of the law of God and the law of Moses.
It's in this thread and other threads. Start with page ONE
The same with Col. Where in the Ten commandments does it say anything about food, drink, holydays, or even Sabbath dayS. That's annual Sabbaths that Moses gave.
Where in the Ten commandments does it point to the Messiah that was to come?
I know God gave me the separation of the Law. And I have scriptures to back it up. He guided me through the bible He gave me the scriptures He opened my mind of understanding.
Because churches are teaching that the Ten commandments are no longer in effect usually siteing Pau's writings. Paul himself said He serves the law of God.
1Co 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.
to the Jews he became a Jew But himself not being under Jewish law the sacrifical law of Moses.
1Co 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
Here Paul explains that He is not without the Law of God but under the Law of Christ. The law of Christ is that He fuflfilled the sacrifical laws of Moses that the Jews were still keeping.
Honestly you can't “trap” me with scripture concerning the separation of law and the sabbath.
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,22:39) Kejonn, How many more scriptures do you want? Time is getting short playtime is over! It's time to get serious VERY serious.
But you and others are like the brides who fell asleep and ran out of oil in their lamp.
Which day in scripture has a name?
And what is the number of this ONLY day with a name?
So when God says to remember His Sabbath which day is HE speaking of?
You won't listen to scripture may be you will listen to common sense.
Ken,**sigh** I apologized to you and ask that we start anew. I then listed some passages and asked for feedback. I do this so I can gain understanding because I have not really focused on passages such as these before in my walk.
So in return you first of all do not acknowledge my apology. Just as you did not acknowledge that I agreed with you on the resurrection, but instead went on a tirade about how I was wrong about a Friday death. I never said I believed in our savior dying on Friday. Yet you still went ahead and assumed I did.
You are so consumed in this that you have truly been blinded to all but proving your point. Here are some verse for you then since you seek to please God and His Son:
Luk 17:3 “Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
I apologized and you did not acknowledge such. Therefore, I can only assume you struggle with the forgiveness component of this commandment of Yeshua. I also said I agreed with you assessment of the day that Yeshua died and you failed to recognize that but instead when out of your way to say how wrong I was. I sense way too much anger in your words.
Jam 1:19 This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger;
Jam 1:20 for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God.Whatever the case, I have asked for forgiveness. I can do no more. Consider this my last communication with you for you are too consumed with the Sabbath issue to be calm anymore. I will continue to study the passages above on my own and pray for Holy Spirit guidance. Please consider your approach to others and seek to be more like Yeshua. He is our ultimate role model.
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,23:47) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,22:39) Kejonn, How many more scriptures do you want? Time is getting short playtime is over! It's time to get serious VERY serious.
But you and others are like the brides who fell asleep and ran out of oil in their lamp.
Which day in scripture has a name?
And what is the number of this ONLY day with a name?
So when God says to remember His Sabbath which day is HE speaking of?
You won't listen to scripture may be you will listen to common sense.
Ken,**sigh** I apologized to you and ask that we start anew. I then listed some passages and asked for feedback. I do this so I can gain understanding because I have not really focused on passages such as these before in my walk.
So in return you first of all do not acknowledge my apology. Just as you did not acknowledge that I agreed with you on the resurrection, but instead went on a tirade about how I was wrong about a Friday death. I never said I believed in our savior dying on Friday. Yet you still went ahead and assumed I did.
You are so consumed in this that you have truly been blinded to all but proving your point. Here are some verse for you then since you seek to please God and His Son:
Luk 17:3 “Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
I apologized and you did not acknowledge such. Therefore, I can only assume you struggle with the forgiveness component of this commandment of Yeshua. I also said I agreed with you assessment of the day that Yeshua died and you failed to recognize that but instead when out of your way to say how wrong I was. I sense way too much anger in your words.
Jam 1:19 This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger;
Jam 1:20 for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God.Whatever the case, I have asked for forgiveness. I can do no more. Consider this my last communication with you for you are too consumed with the Sabbath issue to be calm anymore. I will continue to study the passages above on my own and pray for Holy Spirit guidance. Please consider your approach to others and seek to be more like Yeshua. He is our ultimate role model.
kejonn this was posted BEROFE you apologized!This is what I posted AFTER you apologized!
The law is written on our heart and not on stone. We walk not according to the letter of the law but the Spirit.
This is why Jesus made the Law spiritual:
Mat 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.I have said this over and over and over. We are to keep the law spiritual. Does that mean that the Ten commandments have been nailed to the cross.
The law is written on our hearts not thrown away!
Gal. 4 is speaking of the law of Moses and not God's law.
You have to understand that there is a separation of the law of God and the law of Moses.
It's in this thread and other threads. Start with page ONE
The same with Col. Where in the Ten commandments does it say anything about food, drink, holydays, or even Sabbath dayS. That's annual Sabbaths that Moses gave.
Where in the Ten commandments does it point to the Messiah that was to come?
I know God gave me the separation of the Law. And I have scriptures to back it up. He guided me through the bible He gave me the scriptures He opened my mind of understanding.
Because churches are teaching that the Ten commandments are no longer in effect usually siteing Pau's writings. Paul himself said He serves the law of God.
1Co 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.
to the Jews he became a Jew But himself not being under Jewish law the sacrifical law of Moses.
1Co 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
Here Paul explains that He is not without the Law of God but under the Law of Christ. The law of Christ is that He fuflfilled the sacrifical laws of Moses that the Jews were still keeping.
Honestly you can't “trap” me with scripture concerning the separation of law and the sabbath.
Ken,
Because I truly do not want to have hard feelings between us, I will break my words above and say some more. First of all, you are wrong about my apology coming after what you wrote. That is very dishonest of you to say so. Here are the times, and you can go back and look for yourself (the times listed may not match your time zone but they do show the apology preceded your next post).
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 11 2007,22:29) Ken, First, I want to apologize for being harsh. It is never my intention to be so, but it is a human failing. I have had a heavy heart since I posted earlier and I knew it was due to my responses to you. That is truly one of the reasons we have the Holy Spirit. You and I may be 1000s of miles away (or even next door and not know it
), but I'm still concerned about the way I may treat you regardless of this. Anyways, lets start off on a new level, shall we?Your response came 10 minutes after I posted:
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,22:39) Kejonn, How many more scriptures do you want? Time is getting short playtime is over! It's time to get serious VERY serious.
But you and others are like the brides who fell asleep and ran out of oil in their lamp.
Which day in scripture has a name?
And what is the number of this ONLY day with a name?
So when God says to remember His Sabbath which day is HE speaking of?
You won't listen to scripture may be you will listen to common sense.
Even so, when you did decide to respond to the passages I listed, you did not acknowledge my apology nor did you acknowledge that I had agreed with your assessment on the day of Yeshua's death. This leads me to believe that you struggle with forgiveness. Please remember that the 10 Commandments are not all we should adhere to. Yeshua had many, many great commandments.
PAGE 13 THE LAST POST, KEJONN!
BUT THAT'S ALRIGHT PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES.
It's true I do get frustrated because I know that the LORD gave me this. But because Christians are influenced by their past they respond negatively. I give scripture it's like people can't read OR WON'T read what I have given they become defensive. Just as you go on to fight with WJ because of the Trinity WJ is deceived about the Trinity because of the Harlot. The Sabbath is another LIE of the Harlot.
If I didn't know that the LORD gave me this I wouldn't be so persistent. I probably have some things left over from the Harlot that need to be dug out. But for now I MUST get this message out.There is no scripture that says the Sabbath has been done away with OR changed. The Harlot changed it to Sunday and her daughters are teaching that the Commandments have been nailed to the cross.
If anyone would take the time to search the scriptures I give and some how put their past teachings aside they would be MORE free from the Harlot.
I would that I could give the message and then when people refuse to even try to understand shake the dust off my feet but I can't because this site go out to the world and it is the world that the Lord wants to save.
I don't bring up the Sabbath to people who I have given the message too. But someone NEW will come in then I am obligated to share what the LORD has shown me. When that happens then others jump in to try to discredit my teaching even though they have NO scripture OR try to understand what the Lord has given me.
One day people will SEE this I promise. Although I sure they will know the truth by the end of the Millennium. I desperately want them to know now! that's why the Lord gave it to me to share.
When I was looking for the “true” church I woke up quoting this scripture.
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
This showed me that the true church is considered an outsider of main stream Christianity. Notice that because this church is an outsider Christianity has rejected them BUT the Lord makes those of the Harlot come and worship at their feet so that those of the Harlot would KNOW that the Lord has loved them.
So mine is NOT a popular message just as not believing in the Trinity is not popular among main stream Christianity.
It's true the trinity is a false doctrine. Some instead of rejecting it have doctored it up in hopes of keeping the doctrine. I'm here to tell you that the Trinity is NOT the only lie of the Harlot. Again just as you will meet with obverse ness talking to a Trinity believer (no matter how they camouflage it) so I meet with obverse ness about the Sabbath that the Harlot has changed. She has changed it for good reason when one keeps the Seventh Day Sabbath that person carries a sign that he believes in the Hebrew God and creator.
I apologize for my eagerness to share the Lord's message to Come out of her MY people. But I will DEFEND what the LORD has given me to the death.
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,23:56) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,15:29) Ken, First, I want to apologize for being harsh. It is never my intention to be so, but it is a human failing. I have had a heavy heart since I posted earlier and I knew it was due to my responses to you. That is truly one of the reasons we have the Holy Spirit. You and I may be 1000s of miles away (or even next door and not know it
), but I'm still concerned about the way I may treat you regardless of this. Anyways, lets start off on a new level, shall we?I want to know what you feel about the following scripture passages. This is truly NOT a “trap” but I want your feedback. It will help me to define where you and I are one Old Covenant vs New Covenant. That IS what this thread is about, right?
2Cr 3:5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,
2Cr 3:6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Cr 3:7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,
2Cr 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?
2Cr 3:9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.
————————————————————
Gal 4:8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
————————————————————
Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day–
Col 2:17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.Again, I repeat, this is not a “trap” but a sincere desire to see how you view the above.
Thanks!
The law is written on our heart and not on stone. We walk not according to the letter of the law but the Spirit.This is why Jesus made the Law spiritual:
Mat 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.I have said this over and over and over. We are to keep the law spiritual. Does that mean that the Ten commandments have been nailed to the cross.
The law is written on our hearts not thrown away!
No disagreement with you.Quote Gal. 4 is speaking of the law of Moses and not God's law. You have to understand that there is a separation of the law of God and the law of Moses.
It's in this thread and other threads. Start with page ONE
Yes, I did start from page one. Starting from that page and watching the way you responded to people is what made me join in. I have seen too much legalism in my life to sit back and watch as people downgrade the spirituality of people that they do not know just because they do not see everything the same way. You have become very course and mean-spirited in your responses whether you believe so or not. I've also seen you attack many denominations and say they did not have the Spirit. Denominations are not good IMO, but they are made up of people, and these people are trying to serve God. Many do not, but that does not mean that there are not good, God-fearing spiritual people inside of the various denominations. But you say this denomination does not have the spirit, this person does not fellowship with God, etc. I think I would not be alone in saying that you then come across as saying “I, Ken, alone am serving God in all truth”. Again, this is not likely your intention, but perhaps you should go back and read from page 1 and pay attention to your responses to people.Quote The same with Col. Where in the Ten commandments does it say anything about food, drink, holydays, or even Sabbath dayS. That's annual Sabbaths that Moses gave.
Not from the many commentaries I have read. This applies to the weekly Sabbath as well. But I disagree that this verse means that the weekly Sabbath is abolished like I've seen some say. I instead think it means that people should not judge others who observe the Sabbath even if they are not a Jew. Some believers at Collossae had begun to observe the Sabbath and others were ridiculing them for it.Quote Where in the Ten commandments does it point to the Messiah that was to come?
Don't get so hung up in the 10 Commandments. We do have the whole Bible to consider. Yeshua had much that is valuable too.Quote I know God gave me the separation of the Law. And I have scriptures to back it up. He guided me through the bible He gave me the scriptures He opened my mind of understanding. Because churches are teaching that the Ten commandments are no longer in effect usually siteing Pau's writings. Paul himself said He serves the law of God.
I do not disagree. But I also think that people can use the 10 Commandments in a wrong manner and seek to be righteous in their observance without truly knowing why.Quote 1Co 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. to the Jews he became a Jew But himself not being under Jewish law the sacrifical law of Moses.
1Co 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
Here Paul explains that He is not without the Law of God but under the Law of Christ. The law of Christ is that He fuflfilled the sacrifical laws of Moses that the Jews were still keepin
g.Honestly you can't “trap” me with scripture concerning the separation of law and the sabbath.
As I said, they were not a “trap”. I felt like I had to say that because you come across as seeing motives in what people post. I had no motive other than getting your feedback.Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 13 2007,01:16) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,23:56) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,15:29) Ken, First, I want to apologize for being harsh. It is never my intention to be so, but it is a human failing. I have had a heavy heart since I posted earlier and I knew it was due to my responses to you. That is truly one of the reasons we have the Holy Spirit. You and I may be 1000s of miles away (or even next door and not know it
), but I'm still concerned about the way I may treat you regardless of this. Anyways, lets start off on a new level, shall we?I want to know what you feel about the following scripture passages. This is truly NOT a “trap” but I want your feedback. It will help me to define where you and I are one Old Covenant vs New Covenant. That IS what this thread is about, right?
2Cr 3:5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,
2Cr 3:6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Cr 3:7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,
2Cr 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?
2Cr 3:9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.
————————————————————
Gal 4:8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
————————————————————
Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day–
Col 2:17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.Again, I repeat, this is not a “trap” but a sincere desire to see how you view the above.
Thanks!
The law is written on our heart and not on stone. We walk not according to the letter of the law but the Spirit.This is why Jesus made the Law spiritual:
Mat 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.I have said this over and over and over. We are to keep the law spiritual. Does that mean that the Ten commandments have been nailed to the cross.
The law is written on our hearts not thrown away!
No disagreement with you.Quote Gal. 4 is speaking of the law of Moses and not God's law. You have to understand that there is a separation of the law of God and the law of Moses.
It's in this thread and other threads. Start with page ONE
Yes, I did start from page one. Starting from that page and watching the way you responded to people is what made me join in. I have seen too much legalism in my life to sit back and watch as people downgrade the spirituality of people that they do not know just because they do not see everything the same way. You have become very course and mean-spirited in your responses whether you believe so or not. I've also seen you attack many denominations and say they did not have the Spirit. Denominations are not good IMO, but they are made up of people, and these people are trying to serve God. Many do not, but that does not mean that there are not good, God-fearing spiritual people inside of the various denominations. But you say this denomination does not have the spirit, this person does not fellowship with God, etc. I think I would not be alone in saying that you then come across as saying “I, Ken, alone am serving God in all truth”. Again, this is not likely your intention, but perhaps you should go back and read from page 1 and pay attention to your responses to people.Quote The same with Col. Where in the Ten commandments does it say anything about food, drink, holydays, or even Sabbath dayS. That's annual Sabbaths that Moses gave.
Not from the many commentaries I have read. This applies to the weekly Sabbath as well. But I disagree that this verse means that the weekly Sabbath is abolished like I've seen some say. I instead think it means that people should not judge others who observe the Sabbath even if they are not a Jew. Some believers at Collossae had begun to observe the Sabbath and others were ridiculing them for it.Quote Where in the Ten commandments does it point to the Messiah that was to come?
Don't get so hung up in the 10 Commandments. We do have the whole Bible to consider. Yeshua had much that is valuable too.Quote I know God gave me the separation of the Law. And I have scriptures to back it up. He guided me through the bible He gave me the scriptures He opened my mind of understanding. Because churches are teaching that the Ten commandments are no longer in effect usually siteing Pau's writings. Paul himself said He serves the law of God.
I do not disagree. But I also think that people can use the 10 Commandments in a wrong manner and seek to be righteous in their observance without truly knowing why.Quote 1Co 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. to the Jews he became a Jew But himself not being under Jewish law the sacrifical law of Moses.
1Co 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Chris
t) that I might win those outside the law.Here Paul explains that He is not without the Law of God but under the Law of Christ. The law of Christ is that He fuflfilled the sacrifical laws of Moses that the Jews were still keeping.
Honestly you can't “trap” me with scripture concerning the separation of law and the sabbath.
As I said, they were not a “trap”. I felt like I had to say that because you come across as seeing motives in what people post. I had no motive other than getting your feedback.
I responded in DEFENSE of the word.Your apology obviously was not sincere. Now you call me a liar. Even before I knew the Lord I was HONEST that's just the way I am and the reason I get in trouble as you and others can a test too.
Go your way Kejonn, but I warn you if you or any one tries to disprove the word of God I will defend it, like it or NOT!
You don't agree then don't read it otherwise we will meet again.
OK,
IHN&L,
Ken
Kejonn you ever think that I was responding to an earlier post?
Nevermind Kejonn you have judged me and that's that in your mind. So again GO YOUR WAY!
OK
IHN&L,
Ken
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 12 2007,07:54) PAGE 13 THE LAST POST, KEJONN! BUT THAT'S ALRIGHT PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES.
Mistake? I admit that I was mistaken about you not answering my question about the various passages. But you still fail to acknowledge my apology. I'm trying to learn more about the Sabbath, perhaps you should try to learn more about forgiveness?Mar 11:25 “Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father who is in heaven will also forgive you your transgressions.
Mar 11:26 [“But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your transgressions.”]Quote It's true I do get frustrated because I know that the LORD gave me this. But because Christians are influenced by their past they respond negatively. I give scripture it's like people can't read OR WON'T read what I have given they become defensive. Just as you go on to fight with WJ because of the Trinity WJ is deceived about the Trinity because of the Harlot. The Sabbath is another LIE of the Harlot.
If I didn't know that the LORD gave me this I wouldn't be so persistent. I probably have some things left over from the Harlot that need to be dug out. But for now I MUST get this message out.
The difference is that I list verse and then explain their application. You just list verses and expect that to be sufficient. But sometimes you accompany these verse with statements that downgrade other people's level of spirituality.As to being negative, I've seen that. But I've seen more negative posts from you than the others. In particular, my heart goes out to 942767. The way in which you responded to him is the same way that I've seen many people treated in church. These people end up leaving and many forsake Christianity because they were very young in Christ and all they saw was legalism and close-minded “holier-than-thous”. These people are seeking and all you offer them is death when you flog them the way you do.
Quote There is no scripture that says the Sabbath has been done away with OR changed. The Harlot changed it to Sunday and her daughters are teaching that the Commandments have been nailed to the cross.
I understand your feelings. But you method of delivery is what puts people in a corner. Be careful, you might corner a badger one day.Quote If anyone would take the time to search the scriptures I give and some how put their past teachings aside they would be MORE free from the Harlot. I would that I could give the message and then when people refuse to even try to understand shake the dust off my feet but I can't because this site go out to the world and it is the world that the Lord wants to save.
Its not the message they struggle with, but the method of delivery. You can take a precious stone and stick it in a ratty paper bag and people may never know the contents because they aren't willing to open the bag.Quote I don't bring up the Sabbath to people who I have given the message too. But someone NEW will come in then I am obligated to share what the LORD has shown me. When that happens then others jump in to try to discredit my teaching even though they have NO scripture OR try to understand what the Lord has given me.
I'm not trying to discredit you, I'm trying to help you see that the manner in which you respond to people is not reminiscient of Yeshua's method of teaching people who are seeking. Instead, you treat them as he did those who accused them.Quote One day people will SEE this I promise. Although I sure they will know the truth by the end of the Millennium. I desperately want them to know now! that's why the Lord gave it to me to share.
And you should share it! Amen! But please work on the method in which you share. I encourage you to reread the Gospels and study Yeshua's method of delivery, and not just the message. The message can be missed if people can not see past the method.Quote When I was looking for the “true” church I woke up quoting this scripture. Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
This showed me that the true church is considered an outsider of main stream Christianity. Notice that because this church is an outsider Christianity has rejected them BUT the Lord makes those of the Harlot come and worship at their feet so that those of the Harlot would KNOW that the Lord has loved them.
Ken, I see your relation in this verse. And I see some truth in your statement. But this is specific to Jews who are not truly Jews. In other words, if they had truly been Jews, they would have recognized and followed the Messiah. God will make these who do not acknowledge the Savior fall down and worship at the feet of those who did recognize and serve the Lord.Quote So mine is NOT a popular message just as not believing in the Trinity is not popular among main stream Christianity.
Not popular for sure. But you don't do yourself any favors in the way you downgrade others for their lack of agreement with you.Quote It's true the trinity is a false doctrine. Some instead of rejecting it have doctored it up in hopes of keeping the doctrine. I'm here to tell you that the Trinity is NOT the only lie of the Harlot. Again just as you will meet with obverse ness talking to a Trinity believer (no matter how they camouflage it) so I meet with obverse ness about the Sabbath that the Harlot has changed. She has changed it for good reason when one keeps the Seventh Day Sabbath that person carries a sign that he believes in the Hebrew God and creator.
Its a hard thing Ken. You need to understand one thing though: people are people, and many enjoy the fellowship of others. When I started to question the Trinity and then came to reject it, I also found that I was without a church for the first time in 20 years. I have been searching for weeks for one that I could be
a part of — not to join, but to worship in so I could be with others — but I've had no good results. Now, if I add to that the observance of Saturday Sabbath, I've narrowed my chance of fellowship with others to approximately 0.05%.So yes, not popular at all. I don't strive to be a man-pleaser, but I also have been hurting for weeks now because I have been unable to carry the following out:
Hbr 10:23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful;
Hbr 10:24 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds,
Hbr 10:25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.I have gone for weeks now with no contact with another Christian beyond forums, That is absolutely no substitute. But those I knew have forsaken me because I no longer accept the Trinity.
As I strive to serve God, I know that things may actually get worse before they get better. But it doesn't stop it from hurting now.
Quote I apologize for my eagerness to share the Lord's message to Come out of her MY people. But I will DEFEND what the LORD has given me to the death.
Don't apologize for the eagerness, but consider the methods used in sharing. Try to find more understanding in your heart. Recall when you were first delivered from the many false doctrines you had followed. Have patience.Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 12 2007,08:46) I responded in DEFENSE of the word. Your apology obviously was not sincere. Now you call me a liar. Even before I knew the Lord I was HONEST that's just the way I am and the reason I get in trouble as you and others can a test too.
Where do I call you a liar Ken? By showing you that my apology came 10 minutes before your response? That you never acknowledged it? You struggle so much with forgiveness. Cling to the Sabbath but can't forgive. Do those two work in harmony?Quote Go your way Kejonn, but I warn you if you or any one tries to disprove the word of God I will defend it, like it or NOT!
You defend the scripture the same way Peter did when he cut the ear off the servant in the garden of Gethsemane.Quote You don't agree then don't read it otherwise we will meet again. OK,
I just don't agree with the way to treat people. Sorry. You can beat people over the head with the Bible but the message becomes clear when you try to teach them in love instead.Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 12 2007,08:52) Kejonn you ever think that I was responding to an earlier post? Nevermind Kejonn you have judged me and that's that in your mind. So again GO YOUR WAY!
OK
IHN&L,
Ken
Ken,I have already acknowledged that you responded. Like I acknowledged that I agreed with Friday not being the day that Yeshua died. Yet you still will not see that. All you would rather do is respond in a manner which says “Ken is right, you are wrong”.
Enjoy your time in the Church of Ephesus.
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