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Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,01:38) Ken, Just as I thought. If one can be a spiritual Jew, then one can be a spiritual Pharisee.
What does IHN&L mean anyway? In His Name & Love? Well, please show me where you exhibit the Love part. I've yet to see it. All I ever see is judgment. Which is fine, it is your life after all.
You break one commandment and I'll break another. We both transgress.
If I didn't love I wouldn't be trying to make blind men SEE.If I didn't care I would let you continue to be deceived.
I'm not arguing if I'M RIGHT I'm giving SCRIPTURE or didn't you read?
Here let me put the scripture down again.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
The Sabbath is NOT yours it's HIS. It's not yours to change!
You are trying to say that the Seventh day is Ken's day. No! I'm saying that the Seventh day is GOD'S day and no one else's. It is you and others that say they can choose which day is the Sabbath.
Cain said I will offer what “I” want! Did God like that? Now you say “I” will keep any day as the Sabbath. God Doesn't like that anymore then He liked what Cain did.
Again do what YOU want. But KNOW this you are not arguing with me you are arguing with God's WORD that I gave.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.It is truly the end time.
IHN&L,
Ken
Mat 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Mat 7:16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Mat 7:17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.
Mat 7:18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'
What is the will of the Father. Well it HAS to deal with the Law for those who don’t do His will Jesus calls Lawless.
Is the will of the Father to take His law and change it? To do what YOU will with it? “Workers of Lawlessness”
Wolves in sheep's clothing who tickle the ears of those who want to justify their actions. It's SO clear yet you cannot see Or WILL NOT see.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
IHN&L,
Ken
Ken,
You get all uptight and act like you are showing us truth in the scripture. I ask you to show me where the Sabbath is evening Friday to evening Saturday according to scripture, and you've yet to do so. All you say is “The bible is a Jewish book” or “look at the calendar”. You practice strict legalism based upon what you believe, but yet you can not substantially back up your beliefs other than using CAPS and appearing to “froth” at the keyboard.
Its obvious that you still do not understand exactly why Yeshua came. He came because he knew people were seeking righteousness by fulfilling the Law, but in turn not understanding what the Law truly signified. The Jews of his day were the case. Like them, you point your finger at “transgressors” and tell them they can't be true. They pointed their finger at Yeshua, and you point your finger at those who I believe to honestly love God. But in doing so, you appoint yourself as judge. Did God appoint you, or is this something you've decided to do on your own?
You assume that if someone doesn't keep Saturday Sabbath, they are not showing they love God. Yet I know many people that have more love in their little toe for God and fellow man who don't observe the Saturday Sabbath. Do to mean to rob them of their sincerity and love of God because you feel that they are not obeying the Sabbath as you feel it is to be obeyed? Yes, I say you, because you still have yet to back up Saturday Sabbath with scripture. Until then, it is you.
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,02:24) Ken, You get all uptight and act like you are showing us truth in the scripture. I ask you to show me where the Sabbath is evening Friday to evening Saturday according to scripture, and you've yet to do so. All you say is “The bible is a Jewish book” or “look at the calendar”. You practice strict legalism based upon what you believe, but yet you can not substantially back up your beliefs other than using CAPS and appearing to “froth” at the keyboard.
Its obvious that you still do not understand exactly why Yeshua came. He came because he knew people were seeking righteousness by fulfilling the Law, but in turn not understanding what the Law truly signified. The Jews of his day were the case. Like them, you point your finger at “transgressors” and tell them they can't be true. They pointed their finger at Yeshua, and you point your finger at those who I believe to honestly love God. But in doing so, you appoint yourself as judge. Did God appoint you, or is this something you've decided to do on your own?
You assume that if someone doesn't keep Saturday Sabbath, they are not showing they love God. Yet I know many people that have more love in their little toe for God and fellow man who don't observe the Saturday Sabbath. Do to mean to rob them of their sincerity and love of God because you feel that they are not obeying the Sabbath as you feel it is to be obeyed? Yes, I say you, because you still have yet to back up Saturday Sabbath with scripture. Until then, it is you.
If I didn't think those here didn't love God I would be GONE!OK:
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.God's day starts at sunset this is common knowledge to those who know the truth, agreed?
Exo 16:22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.What day is the sixth day? Look at the “weekly” calendar. It is Friday God's sixth day.
Then God said TOMORROW following the sixth day is the seventh day is it not? IS THE REST OF THE HOLY SABBATH UNTO THE LORD
Which day?
Is it the first day? No that's the Harlot's day? Well is it any of the other six days? Again NO! It is the SEVENTH day.
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,09:36) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,02:24) Ken, You get all uptight and act like you are showing us truth in the scripture. I ask you to show me where the Sabbath is evening Friday to evening Saturday according to scripture, and you've yet to do so. All you say is “The bible is a Jewish book” or “look at the calendar”. You practice strict legalism based upon what you believe, but yet you can not substantially back up your beliefs other than using CAPS and appearing to “froth” at the keyboard.
Its obvious that you still do not understand exactly why Yeshua came. He came because he knew people were seeking righteousness by fulfilling the Law, but in turn not understanding what the Law truly signified. The Jews of his day were the case. Like them, you point your finger at “transgressors” and tell them they can't be true. They pointed their finger at Yeshua, and you point your finger at those who I believe to honestly love God. But in doing so, you appoint yourself as judge. Did God appoint you, or is this something you've decided to do on your own?
You assume that if someone doesn't keep Saturday Sabbath, they are not showing they love God. Yet I know many people that have more love in their little toe for God and fellow man who don't observe the Saturday Sabbath. Do to mean to rob them of their sincerity and love of God because you feel that they are not obeying the Sabbath as you feel it is to be obeyed? Yes, I say you, because you still have yet to back up Saturday Sabbath with scripture. Until then, it is you.
If I didn't think those here didn't love God I would be GONE!OK:
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.God's day starts at sunset this is common knowledge to those who know the truth, agreed?
Does it say here that “first day” signifies the first calendar day of the week? Or rather does it signify the separation of the days of creation? Do you believe that all men from Adam to Noah kept accurate records of the day of the week? We don't know how long Adam spent in the Garden before he was “evicted”. Does it say how many days? Did Adam keep track?Quote Exo 16:22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.Quote What day is the sixth day? Look at the “weekly” calendar. It is Friday God's sixth day.
Yes, it is the sixth day of the week. Yet, the scripture above does not say sixth day of the week. It merely says sixth day. I'm not trying to be contentious here but to show you that it may very well be that God was not being specific for a purpose. That is, that it is not so much the exact day of the week, but that you observe 6 days of labor and 1 day of rest. The Jews developed their own pattern so they would agree on the day.Quote Then God said TOMORROW following the sixth day is the seventh day is it not? IS THE REST OF THE HOLY SABBATH UNTO THE LORD Which day?
Again, the sixth and seventh, but neither specifies “of the week”. Could it not be of the cycle? That is the cycle of 6 days of labor, 1 day of rest.What day of the week did Yeshua die?
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,03:04) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,09:36) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,02:24) Ken, You get all uptight and act like you are showing us truth in the scripture. I ask you to show me where the Sabbath is evening Friday to evening Saturday according to scripture, and you've yet to do so. All you say is “The bible is a Jewish book” or “look at the calendar”. You practice strict legalism based upon what you believe, but yet you can not substantially back up your beliefs other than using CAPS and appearing to “froth” at the keyboard.
Its obvious that you still do not understand exactly why Yeshua came. He came because he knew people were seeking righteousness by fulfilling the Law, but in turn not understanding what the Law truly signified. The Jews of his day were the case. Like them, you point your finger at “transgressors” and tell them they can't be true. They pointed their finger at Yeshua, and you point your finger at those who I believe to honestly love God. But in doing so, you appoint yourself as judge. Did God appoint you, or is this something you've decided to do on your own?
You assume that if someone doesn't keep Saturday Sabbath, they are not showing they love God. Yet I know many people that have more love in their little toe for God and fellow man who don't observe the Saturday Sabbath. Do to mean to rob them of their sincerity and love of God because you feel that they are not obeying the Sabbath as you feel it is to be obeyed? Yes, I say you, because you still have yet to back up Saturday Sabbath with scripture. Until then, it is you.
If I didn't think those here didn't love God I would be GONE!OK:
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.God's day starts at sunset this is common knowledge to those who know the truth, agreed?
Does it say here that “first day” signifies the first calendar day of the week? Or rather does it signify the separation of the days of creation? Do you believe that all men from Adam to Noah kept accurate records of the day of the week? We don't know how long Adam spent in the Garden before he was “evicted”. Does it say how many days? Did Adam keep track?Quote Exo 16:22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.What day is the sixth day? Look at the “weekly” calendar. It is Friday God's sixth day.[/quote]
Yes, it is the sixth day of the week. Yet, the scripture above does not say sixth day of the week. It merely says sixth day. I'm not trying to be contentious here but to show you that it may very well be that God was not being specific for a purpose. That is, that it is not so much the exact day of the week, but that you observe 6 days of labor and 1 day of rest.Quote Then God said TOMORROW following the sixth day is the seventh day is it not? IS THE REST OF THE HOLY SABBATH UNTO THE LORD Which day?
Again, the sixth and seventh, but neither specifies “of the week”. Could it not be of the cycle? That is the cycle of 6 days of labor, 1 day of rest.What day of the week did Yeshua die?
Aren't you being just a little silly in trying to keep to your idea?The Hebrews keep the Seventh day fromthat time until today. Do you think they know which day the seventh day Sabbath is?
EVEN IF the calendar is wrong we are only held accountable for what we know as truth. The calander says Friday is the sixth day saturday is the seventh day and Sunday is the first day. No matter where you are in the world the week is the same. The calander has changed BUT NOT THE WEEK!
Do you think God says to keep the Seventh day Sabbath unto Him and then would NOT let us know when it is?
Now it is scripture not Ken's seventh day. You read it for yourself.
What day did Jesus die on?
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Can you get three days and three nights from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning?
He died on the Passover which changes from year to year.
He died on Tuesday at sunset.
Which started Wednessday NIGHT
Thursday NIGHT
Friday Night
Thursday Daylight
Friday Daylight
Saturday Daylight
And was resurrected on Saturday (the Sabbath) at sunset.Is Jesus a liar? Was He in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. OR was He as the Catholics say in the heart of the earth from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning?
Which they lie and say He was resurrected on Sunday their Sabbath. Can you see?
There were two Sabbaths in that week. One Sabbath followed the Passover, the days of unleavened bread See John 19:31. And of course there was the weekly Sabbath.
There is NO scripture that say Jesus was resurrected on Sunday. Mary found the Tomb EMPTY. He had risen on the Sabbath.
So if you keep the correct Sabbath day you also keep the day Jesus was resurrected on.
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,10:30) Aren't you being just a little silly in trying to keep to your idea?
You misunderstand my intention here. Let me clarify so you will quite being so angry.My purpose is not to “prove” you wrong, but to show that you may not be “right”. Huh? It's like this: it seems that 75% of your 2000+ posts are harping on the Sabbath. You want everyone to see it is evening Friday to evening Saturday. That is fine, no issue here. But again, I showed you verses where there is no stipulation “of the week”.
In other words, if you choose to observe the Jewish day of Sabbath, fine. It is not wrong. But neither can you say it is wrong that others observe a six day labor, 1 day rest schedule. And on that one day, they focus on study, prayer, worship, and praise. That is the true meaning of the Sabbath: it was not meant to restrict people to a certain day of the calendar week but that we constantly set aside one day after six to rest and focus on God.
Let me ask you, why did Yeshua say this?
Mar 2:27 Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
God understands that people must labor to live. Yet he also wants us to rest from our labor and focus on Him. So he patterned the cycle after His days of creation: six days of labor, one day of rest.
But, again, I contend that the specification of “of the week” was left off because God wants us to observe the cycle. I know you disagree, but by telling people they are wrong for not observing Saturday Sabbath, you make the Law a burden as opposed to a love contract between them and God.
Quote The Hebrews keep the Seventh day fromthat time until today. Do you think they know which day the seventh day Sabbath is?
And yes for them, this is where the cycle falls. They have chosen this so they can be consistent with other Jews.Quote EVEN IF the calendar is wrong we are only held accountable for what we know as truth. The calander says Friday is the sixth day saturday is the seventh day and Sunday is the first day. No matter where you are in the world the week is the same. The calander has changed BUT NOT THE WEEK!
No disagreement. But again, no specification “of the week”.Quote Do you think God says to keep the Seventh day Sabbath unto Him and then would NOT let us know when it is?
Yes, He said so: 6 days of labor, 1 day of rest. The rest day is Sabbath.Quote Now it is scripture not Ken's seventh day. You read it for yourself.
Again, no specification “of the week”.Quote What day did Jesus die on? Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Can you get three days and three nights from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning?
He died on the Passover which changes from year to year.
He died on Tuesday at sunset.
Which started Wednessday NIGHT
Thursday NIGHT
Friday Night
Thursday Daylight
Friday Daylight
Saturday Daylight
And was resurrected on Saturday (the Sabbath) at sunset.Is Jesus a liar? Was He in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. OR was He as the Catholics say in the heart of the earth from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning?
Which they lie and say He was resurrected on Sunday their Sabbath. Can you see?
I do not disagree. I was just seeing what you thought. But you say “their Sabbath”. I assume you mean the RCC. Do you do anything that the RCC does? If so, then it must be wrong. Just because the RCC chose Sunday and many other offshoots followed this does not mean it is scipturally invalid. I've shown you as much but I know you disagree.Quote There were two Sabbaths in that week. One Sabbath followed the Passover, the days of unleavened bread See John 19:31. And of course there was the weekly Sabbath. There is NO scripture that say Jesus was resurrected on Sunday. Mary found the Tomb EMPTY. He had risen on the Sabbath.
So if you keep the correct Sabbath day you also keep the day Jesus was resurrected on.
The “correct” Sabbath. Now you say that Yeshua resurrection signifies the “correct” Sabbath. Do you have scripture to back up this claim? Something like “I will rise of the Sabbath”.Again, my intention here is not to show you observe the right or wrong Sabbath. I know you do not. But I merely want to show that your accusation of others is unfounded because God never said “the six days of rest will begin on the first day of the week”. He was not that specific. God doesn't place rules on us to bind us, but to set us free. If for some reason someone cannot adhere to Saturday Sabbath, you make them out to be second rate Christians. I don't think Yeshua would do that, do you?
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2007,04:27) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,10:30) Aren't you being just a little silly in trying to keep to your idea?
You misunderstand my intention here. Let me clarify so you will quite being so angry.My purpose is not to “prove” you wrong, but to show that you may not be “right”. Huh? It's like this: it seems that 75% of your 2000+ posts are harping on the Sabbath. You want everyone to see it is evening Friday to evening Saturday. That is fine, no issue here. But again, I showed you verses where there is no stipulation “of the week”.
In other words, if you choose to observe the Jewish day of Sabbath, fine. It is not wrong. But neither can you say it is wrong that others observe a six day labor, 1 day rest schedule. And on that one day, they focus on study, prayer, worship, and praise. That is the true meaning of the Sabbath: it was not meant to restrict people to a certain day of the calendar week but that we constantly set aside one day after six to rest and focus on God.
Let me ask you, why did Yeshua say this?
Mar 2:27 Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
God understands that people must labor to live. Yet he also wants us to rest from our labor and focus on Him. So he patterned the cycle after His days of creation: six days of labor, one day of rest.
But, again, I contend that the specification of “of the week” was left off because God wants us to observe the cycle. I know you disagree, but by telling people they are wrong for not observing Saturday Sabbath, you make the Law a burden as opposed to a love contract between them and God.
Quote The Hebrews keep the Seventh day fromthat time until today. Do you think they know which day the seventh day Sabbath is?
And yes for them, this is where the cycle falls. They have chosen this so they can be consistent with other Jews.Quote EVEN IF the calendar is wrong we are only held accountable for what we know as truth. The calander says Friday is the sixth day saturday is the seventh day and Sunday is the first day. No matter where you are in the world the week is the same. The calander has changed BUT NOT THE WEEK!
No disagreement. But again, no specification “of the week”.Quote Do you think God says to keep the Seventh day Sabbath unto Him and then would NOT let us know when it is?
Yes, He said so: 6 days of labor, 1 day of rest. The rest day is Sabbath.Quote Now it is scripture not Ken's seventh day. You read it for yourself.
Again, no specification “of the week”.Quote What day did Jesus die on? Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Can you get three days and three nights from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning?
He died on the Passover which changes from year to year.
He died on Tuesday at sunset.
Which started Wednessday NIGHT
Thursday NIGHT
Friday Night
Thursday Daylight
Friday Daylight
Saturday Daylight
And was resurrected on Saturday (the Sabbath) at sunset.Is Jesus a liar? Was He in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. OR was He as the Catholics say in the heart of the earth from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning?
Which they lie and say He was resurrected on Sunday their Sabbath. Can you see?
I do not disagree. I was just seeing what you thought. But you say “their Sabbath”. I assume you mean the RCC. Do you do anything that the RCC does? If so, then it must be wrong. Just because the RCC chose Sunday and many other offshoots followed this does not mean it is scipturally invalid. I've shown you as much but I know you disagree.Quote There were two Sabbaths in that week. One Sabbath followed the Passover, the days of unleavened bread See John 19:31. And of course there was the weekly Sabbath. There is NO scripture that say Jesus was resurrected on Sunday. Mary found the Tomb EMPTY. He had risen on the Sabbath.
So if you keep the correct Sabbath day you also keep the day Jesus was resurrected on.
The “correct” Sabbath. Now you say that Yeshua resurrection signifies the “correct” Sabbath. Do you have scripture to back up this claim? Something like “I will rise of the Sabbath”.Again, my intention here is not to show you observe the right or wrong Sabbath. I know you do not. But I merely want to show that your accusation of others is unfounded because God never said “the six days of rest will begin on the first day of the week”. He was not that specific. God doesn't place rules on us to bind us, but to set us free. If for some reason someone cannot adhere to Saturday Sabbath, you make them out to be second rate Christians. I don't think Yeshua would do that, do you?
Kejonn do you believe that the Ten Commandments are for the Jews only?
You contend. I might ask who are you to tell God which day is His Sabbath.
You asked the question I gave SCRIPTURAL answers NOT my answers. But you still “contend” to see it your way.
So once again I say go ahead keep it your way but don't tell me that your way is the way of God when scripture says different.
You deny this scripture?
Exo 16:22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.You deny that following the sixth day GOD said that the next day was HIS SABBATH? What follows six?
OH that's just for Jews. We are all one in Christ.
The Gentiles are grafted into Israel. I know I am. That's what makes me a Spiritual Jew.You asked how long I have been reading the bible. Now I have to ask how long have you been DENYING the bible.
Scripture is right there in front of you!
Still you want to continue with foolish questions to ARGUE not with me but with scripture.
What day did Jesus die? What day was He resurrected on?
You think that was an accident that He was resurrected on the Seventh Day of His Father?
Again do what you want but don't tell me scripture is wrong and you are right.
I gave scripture you gave your contentions, your reasoning.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.Remember to rest once a week
Well, is that what the forth commandment says. Any day is alright but NOT the seventh day Sabbath UNTO THE LORD.
Straight and Narrow…Hmm mm doesn't sound straight and narrow to me changing the law so you can do what you want. Sounds like a wide path keeping this day or that day. One keeping Sunday the other Friday. That's pretty WIDE.
Quote it seems that
