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Quote Quote (Stu @ July 18 2010,19:36) I have never read a reasonable response to what you consider to be the cause of everything. Are you in the someone, nothing, or something camp? Secondly, if you do not hold to any because you do not know, then you are unqualified to say that anyone of them is not feasible.
I have yet to hear you say I believe or accept this option, or to say, that you are unqualified to say that any of them are not possible.
Until then, all your rants can be answered by “you don't have a clue, therefore your rants are also clueless”.
Put this one to bed by saying which option or that you retract all your nonsensical rants about there being no God. Until then, you are officially clueless and not worthy to make such judgements.
Different things have different causes t8. Maybe some things don't even have a cause, don't you think?Stuart
Stu, when you say “Maybe some things don't even have a cause, don't you think?”, it means that you are not sure. When you are not sure of something, it pays not to make embarrassing statements that are absolute or resolute based on the foundation of 'maybe'.It is like saying, I am going to build a strong house with the best materials, but on a foundation that I am not sure will stand.
It is a wise man who builds his house on a firm foundation like rock and a foolish man who builds on weak foundation like sand. When the foundation is weak, you cannot make the structure strong by using the best materials in the walls because everything rests on the foundation.
Stu, before you construct a good response that is worthy to be listened to, you need to place it on a foundation, and a good foundation at that.
It is no good saying that there is no God, and at the same time, make a statement like, “Maybe some things don't even have a cause”.
Sure, I do not have a problem with a statement such as that, because it is an honest question that shows a seeking heart, but I do have a problem with statements that are made based on bias alone where certain possibilities are written off because you don't like them. Not only is this dishonest, but it is also bad science too.
I want to see a solid argument before I can take you seriously.
How about you start again, and admit that you do not know which of the 3 possibilities is the cause of everything. Then we can talk about causes or lack of causes etc. This way we will make more headway. But if you are going to be guided by bias and a belief with no reason, then it is a forgone conclusion and an exercise in futility to discuss such matters given the construction of your argument so far.
Quote (princess of the king @ July 19 2010,23:50) Actually Stuart, the scientific outlook and methods are derived from Greek Philosophers, the same that are used today. 'That human ability to decipher the physical laws that governed the universe, as well as a willingness to formulate, debate, and test unorthodox theories.'
So do not be too harsh on the philosophers, they were the beginning of your science.
I wonder if Aristotle had possessed measuring devices like clocks or thermometers whether fewer people would have been persecuted by the Inquisition all those years later.Stuart
t8
Quote Stu, when you say “Maybe some things don't even have a cause, don't you think?”, it means that you are not sure. When you are not sure of something, it pays not to make embarrassing statements that are absolute or resolute based on the foundation of 'maybe'.
Uncertainty is the strength of my position. Because it is open to new evidence that contradicts it, there is less likelihood of ending up with pig-headed adherence to an idea long disproved. My views are also falsifiable, so they actually mean something.Do you think there is anything that is not caused, t8?
Quote It is like saying, I am going to build a strong house with the best materials, but on a foundation that I am not sure will stand. It is a wise man who builds his house on a firm foundation like rock and a foolish man who builds on weak foundation like sand. When the foundation is weak, you cannot make the structure strong by using the best materials in the walls because everything rests on the foundation.
I think it takes a wiser man to build a strong house on the sand.Quote Stu, before you construct a good response that is worthy to be listened to, you need to place it on a foundation, and a good foundation at that.
What about the man who builds castles in the air?Quote It is no good saying that there is no God, and at the same time, make a statement like, “Maybe some things don't even have a cause”. Sure, I do not have a problem with a statement such as that, because it is an honest question that shows a seeking heart, but I do have a problem with statements that are made based on bias alone where certain possibilities are written off because you don't like them. Not only is this dishonest, but it is also bad science too.
It is true that I find the concept of the Judeo-christian god an offensive one, but that in itself is not an argument against its existence.Quote I want to see a solid argument before I can take you seriously. How about you start again, and admit that you do not know which of the 3 possibilities is the cause of everything.
I do not know how many possibilities there are t8. I am sure I could invent ten scenarios for whatever it is you are wittering on about!Quote Then we can talk about causes or lack of causes etc. This way we will make more headway. But if you are going to be guided by bias and a belief with no reason, then it is a forgone conclusion and an exercise in futility to discuss such matters given the construction of your argument so far.
Do you think there are things that have no cause or not?Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 10 2010,01:04) Hello theodorej! Long time no see.
I note you are exercising some expertise in your use of religious platitudes there!
Stuart
Greetings Stu…. It is always a pleasure…”religous platitudes” sounds like an oxy moron to me…In defense of myself..I must say” Iam not a religious man”….religion scares me along with its cavalcade of Bible thumpers and scriptual Parots who believe things but probably do not know why…My expertise is limited to my study and God given understanding….Quote (Stu @ July 20 2010,22:51) t8 Uncertainty is the strength of my position. Because it is open to new evidence that contradicts it…
Stuart
Hi Stuart,That's what you say until it is shown to you;
then you dig in to your Atheist bigotry faith!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Stu @ July 20 2010,22:40) Quote (princess of the king @ July 19 2010,23:50) Actually Stuart, the scientific outlook and methods are derived from Greek Philosophers, the same that are used today. 'That human ability to decipher the physical laws that governed the universe, as well as a willingness to formulate, debate, and test unorthodox theories.'
So do not be too harsh on the philosophers, they were the beginning of your science.
I wonder if Aristotle had possessed measuring devices like clocks or thermometers whether fewer people would have been persecuted by the Inquisition all those years later.Stuart
I would ponder no, even with such knowledge the RRC would still have done the same.Some things never change Stuart.
Quote (Stu @ July 20 2010,22:51) Uncertainty is the strength of my position. Because it is open to new evidence that contradicts it, there is less likelihood of ending up with pig-headed adherence to an idea long disproved.
Now that is actually funny. You have demonstrated the complete opposite many times. When a good argument or point is made that supports a view that you do not like, your bias always wins. That is what I have seen so far.Quote (theodorej @ July 21 2010,00:50) Greetings Stu…. It is always a pleasure…”religous platitudes” sounds like an oxy moron to me…In defense of myself..I must say” Iam not a religious man”….religion scares me along with its cavalcade of Bible thumpers and scriptual Parots who believe things but probably do not know why…My expertise is limited to my study and God given understanding….
In other-words, I watch all the fanatics from a distance knowing that I am the one who is right. Hmmm. I think I will light my pipe up again.Quote (t8 @ July 21 2010,15:49) Quote (Stu @ July 20 2010,22:51) Uncertainty is the strength of my position. Because it is open to new evidence that contradicts it, there is less likelihood of ending up with pig-headed adherence to an idea long disproved.
Now that is actually funny. You have demonstrated the complete opposite many times. When a good argument or point is made that supports a view that you do not like, your bias always wins. That is what I have seen so far.
I don't remember very many good points made against what I have written. Christianity does not equip its believers with any capacity for robust discussion. If a christian gets into trouble the first resort is to platitude and the second is to pulling out the faith trump card.Stuart
Quote (princess of the king @ July 21 2010,08:44) Quote (Stu @ July 20 2010,22:40) Quote (princess of the king @ July 19 2010,23:50) Actually Stuart, the scientific outlook and methods are derived from Greek Philosophers, the same that are used today. 'That human ability to decipher the physical laws that governed the universe, as well as a willingness to formulate, debate, and test unorthodox theories.'
So do not be too harsh on the philosophers, they were the beginning of your science.
I wonder if Aristotle had possessed measuring devices like clocks or thermometers whether fewer people would have been persecuted by the Inquisition all those years later.Stuart
I would ponder no, even with such knowledge the RRC would still have done the same.Some things never change Stuart.
The RCC's classic of recent times, which went under-reported due to the other issues that have accumulated around them in the past few years, was when they vacillated on the question of whether they were for evolution. The former pope was, and this one clearly is not but was in the awkward position of appearing to go against his mentor and predecessor, the one who really got him the succession to the bishopric of Rome.In the end, this pope had to say he accepted it, and actually the RCC had already thought of it before Darwin did!
Why their noses don't grow I'll never know.
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ July 21 2010,15:51) Quote (theodorej @ July 21 2010,00:50) Greetings Stu…. It is always a pleasure…”religous platitudes” sounds like an oxy moron to me…In defense of myself..I must say” Iam not a religious man”….religion scares me along with its cavalcade of Bible thumpers and scriptual Parots who believe things but probably do not know why…My expertise is limited to my study and God given understanding….
In other-words, I watch all the fanatics from a distance knowing that I am the one who is right. Hmmm. I think I will light my pipe up again.
Greetings T8….In other words your assessment of my post is wrong and perhaps it is you who harbours the huberous in knowing or thinking that you are right….Hmmm…and Iam just a fanatic observing and partaking in a forum that is a give and take on a topic that fascinates me….it is truth ….Not religion and all the piety and high minded recitation of the written word…believe it or not Iam able to gleen truth from this consortium with a measured amount of participation…..Now if you don't mind I will partake of a bowl of cherry blend and await your retort….Quote (theodorej @ July 22 2010,07:12) Quote (t8 @ July 21 2010,15:51) Quote (theodorej @ July 21 2010,00:50) Greetings Stu…. It is always a pleasure…”religous platitudes” sounds like an oxy moron to me…In defense of myself..I must say” Iam not a religious man”….religion scares me along with its cavalcade of Bible thumpers and scriptual Parots who believe things but probably do not know why…My expertise is limited to my study and God given understanding….
In other-words, I watch all the fanatics from a distance knowing that I am the one who is right. Hmmm. I think I will light my pipe up again.
Greetings T8….In other words your assessment of my post is wrong and perhaps it is you who harbours the huberous in knowing or thinking that you are right….Hmmm…and Iam just a fanatic observing and partaking in a forum that is a give and take on a topic that fascinates me….it is truth ….Not religion and all the piety and high minded recitation of the written word…believe it or not Iam able to gleen truth from this consortium with a measured amount of participation…..Now if you don't mind I will partake of a bowl of cherry blend and await your retort….
I have to agree with you theodorej. Although we disagree about your Imaginary Friend, you are far from blindly dogmatic.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 21 2010,21:07) Quote (princess of the king @ July 21 2010,08:44) Quote (Stu @ July 20 2010,22:40) Quote (princess of the king @ July 19 2010,23:50) Actually Stuart, the scientific outlook and methods are derived from Greek Philosophers, the same that are used today. 'That human ability to decipher the physical laws that governed the universe, as well as a willingness to formulate, debate, and test unorthodox theories.'
So do not be too harsh on the philosophers, they were the beginning of your science.
I wonder if Aristotle had possessed measuring devices like clocks or thermometers whether fewer people would have been persecuted by the Inquisition all those years later.Stuart
I would ponder no, even with such knowledge the RRC would still have done the same.Some things never change Stuart.
The RCC's classic of recent times, which went under-reported due to the other issues that have accumulated around them in the past few years, was when they vacillated on the question of whether they were for evolution. The former pope was, and this one clearly is not but was in the awkward position of appearing to go against his mentor and predecessor, the one who really got him the succession to the bishopric of Rome.In the end, this pope had to say he accepted it, and actually the RCC had already thought of it before Darwin did!
Why their noses don't grow I'll never know.
Stuart
I understand the concept, my comparison is when the pope wore a santa hat, it is a wonder he did not have his bishops dress as elves.You know Stuart, I do not believe we have touch on the subject of 'traditions' either cultural, family, religious have we?
Quote (princess of the king @ July 24 2010,10:33) Quote (Stu @ July 21 2010,21:07) Quote (princess of the king @ July 21 2010,08:44) Quote (Stu @ July 20 2010,22:40) Quote (princess of the king @ July 19 2010,23:50) Actually Stuart, the scientific outlook and methods are derived from Greek Philosophers, the same that are used today. 'That human ability to decipher the physical laws that governed the universe, as well as a willingness to formulate, debate, and test unorthodox theories.'
So do not be too harsh on the philosophers, they were the beginning of your science.
I wonder if Aristotle had possessed measuring devices like clocks or thermometers whether fewer people would have been persecuted by the Inquisition all those years later.Stuart
I would ponder no, even with such knowledge the RRC would still have done the same.Some things never change Stuart.
The RCC's classic of recent times, which went under-reported due to the other issues that have accumulated around them in the past few years, was when they vacillated on the question of whether they were for evolution. The former pope was, and this one clearly is not but was in the awkward position of appearing to go against his mentor and predecessor, the one who really got him the succession to the bishopric of Rome.In the end, this pope had to say he accepted it, and actually the RCC had already thought of it before Darwin did!
Why their noses don't grow I'll never know.
Stuart
I understand the concept, my comparison is when the pope wore a santa hat, it is a wonder he did not have his bishops dress as elves.You know Stuart, I do not believe we have touch on the subject of 'traditions' either cultural, family, religious have we?
Greetings Princess…..Stu is one of the foremost proponants of the the critical analysis of Dogma,and religious tradition…The RCC neither endorsed nor supported the theory of evolution…this position should not surprise anyone because they also maintain the same position on homosexuality…
The RCCs' position on homosexuality is….If a church member is attracted to the same sex they are to be chase and not participate in the lifestyle at the same time seek the sacraments through your confessor…Greetings Princess…..In addition….This is the same church that demands celibacy of its clerics….Celibacy in its self is an unnatural act…
Quote (Ed J @ July 21 2010,02:11) Quote (Stu @ July 20 2010,22:51) t8 Uncertainty is the strength of my position. Because it is open to new evidence that contradicts it…
Stuart
Hi Stuart,That's what you say until it is shown to you;
then you dig in to your Atheist bigotry faith!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Stuart,You ignore “Proof”, you don't embrace it?
Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2010,16:57) Quote (Ed J @ July 21 2010,02:11) Quote (Stu @ July 20 2010,22:51) t8 Uncertainty is the strength of my position. Because it is open to new evidence that contradicts it…
Stuart
Hi Stuart,That's what you say until it is shown to you;
then you dig in to your Atheist bigotry faith!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Stuart,You ignore “Proof”, you don't embrace it?
Huh?Do you understand what the word “proof” means?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 27 2010,22:14) Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2010,16:57) Quote (Ed J @ July 21 2010,02:11) Quote (Stu @ July 20 2010,22:51) t8 Uncertainty is the strength of my position. Because it is open to new evidence that contradicts it…
Stuart
Hi Stuart,That's what you say until it is shown to you;
then you dig in to your Atheist bigotry faith!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Stuart,You ignore “Proof”, you don't embrace it?
Huh?Do you understand what the word “proof” means?
Stuart
Hi Stuart,Nothing is proved to 'you',
until you consider “The Proof”!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ July 28 2010,09:30) Quote (Stu @ July 27 2010,22:14) Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2010,16:57) Quote (Ed J @ July 21 2010,02:11) Quote (Stu @ July 20 2010,22:51) t8 Uncertainty is the strength of my position. Because it is open to new evidence that contradicts it…
Stuart
Hi Stuart,That's what you say until it is shown to you;
then you dig in to your Atheist bigotry faith!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Stuart,You ignore “Proof”, you don't embrace it?
Huh?Do you understand what the word “proof” means?
Stuart
Hi Stuart,Nothing is proved to 'you',
until you consider “The Proof”!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
So you don't get the idea of proof. Never mind.Stuart
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