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LU……Please show us, a scripture that say that Jesus was more then a “man”. I have yet to see it written anywhere in scriptures. But I do see where he said , he said if I believe , “we could do greater works then he did” . How does that fit in with your , “greater the a man”, theology?
Here is just another of many scriptures that proves he was of and from mankind. “God is not a Man that he should lie, nor a “SON OF MAN” that he should repent. But Jesus told us he was a “Son of Man”, over 60 times. seems you have more problems to figure out. Tell us why do you limit what God can do through any Man, to just What he can do through Jesus.
As I have said you “TRULY, don’t belive what Jesus said or what scripture says, Or you would know that,”
What you are believing in, is the traditions of a fallen Christanity, and you will suffer their fate, UNLESS you repent. Don’t let those false teacher cause you to loose out on your salvation LU. 2ths 2
Peace and love to you and yours, LU…………….gene
Hi Gene,
You said: LU……Please show us, a scripture that say that Jesus was more then a “man”.
Gene, do you know who said this and to whom: “apart from Me you can do nothing”?
Gene
Please show us, a scripture that say that Jesus was more then a “man”. I have yet to see it written anywhere in scriptures.
John.1
[1] In the beginning was” the Word,” and the Word was with the God, and “the Word was God.”
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.Hi Gene,
Do you know who said these words and to whom?
” ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’” Who is the slave in that statement and who is the master, do you know?
Hi Gene,
Read this: “I am the vine, you are the branches;” is the speaker making it sound like there are two categories, one more dependent than the other? If so, which one is more dependent, the vine or the branches?
You always finish your post with wishing us peace and love. The way to peace and love is by being of the same mind…whose mind would that be, do you know?
Hi Gene,
You can see that you are on my mind on this Friday afternoon :).
Read this:
Eph 6:23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Is the lord Jesus Christ part of the “brethren” in that verse or one of the Ones who gives peace, love, and faith to the brethren?
The brethen receive peace and love from the Father and Jesus. Notice that Jesus is included with the Father as distinct from the brethren. Over and over you can see that if you are willing.
LU……Paul was saying that to the brethren in Eph 6v23. In your last post, Paul representing bothGod the Father “and” Jesus , but not as the same person. As your trying to do. I do believe you know what the word (and) means right, it means two different persons, like Joe and Mike . The are not the same .
Neither is the Man Jesus “and” God the Father , the servant is not above the master, but it is enough that the servant be like the master. But that never makes them the same person, or equal in power or authority of eachother, One is subject to the other. In FACT Jesus said clearly he could do “NOTHING” of himself. I find that interesting you people never say that, but Jesus sure did right.
As far as your post aboutthe vine, I was a Grower of grapes for over thirty years and trust me I do know all about vines, and the branches and pruning them. The vine is started by a branch planted upside-down, leaving a bud in the soil which becomes (another) vine, as the bud part starts generating roots, and begins to produce another vine, the material that makes up the vine is the “exact same material the makes up the branches, which can themselves become vines to, just as I told you. There is no difference between the vine and the branches Because they all grow together as one and the same thing called “the vine”, both the vine and the branches , receive growth from the earth .
In the parable we can break the vine into it’s parts even though the vine started as another branch, just as Jesus himself (came from the vine i.e. “mankind” ) , did he not say, “I am the root and offspring of King David” ?, So we can see that Jesus was from humanity and that was his start and he came into being from the earth just like the rest of mankind also. We are connect to him by the Spirit of God and he does hold the position of a vine , but we his branches being made of the “exact same material” can also become VINES ourselves to, why because we are made of the “EXACT” SAME MATERIAL. The vine and the branches are the way the life giving fruit is produced. But, without the branches the vine can produce nothing. And the parable is true if the branches are cut of the vine they are gathered and burned, no fruit is produced in them.
But to say the vine is different then the branches is untrue, they are the (Exact same thing), they even come from eachother, having the same origins. LU, PLEASE THINK ABOUT THIS, a vine can’t be a vine unless, it was a branch first. SAME thing applies to Jesus, he could of never been Jesus “the” Christ, unless he was part of mankind first.
The whole idea of Jesus being different then we are is a “LIE”, that’s exactly what Satan wants us all to believe, to loose site of all our potential we have in our brother Jesus “the” Christ. Who is the “FIRST BORN OF MANY”. Think about it LU.
Peace and love to you and yours LU………..gene
LU……There exists, no vine NOR HUMAN, that did not come from another (branch) exactly like it, and there exist no branch , that did not come from another vine exactly like it also, they “ALL”, come from one planting, of “ONE”, God. JESUS is a human being , a HUMAN, FROM HUMANITY, FROM “ONE”, GOD, as we “ALL” are.
Matt 23:9………”Call no man your Father, upon the earth; for “ONE” is you Father, which is in heaven.
Jesus said those words not me, but the question is, do you “truly”, believe him LU?
Peace and love to you and yours LU………gene
Do you guys want to see a funny blast from the past? This is Proclaimer just last week, making the inane strawman argument that if you believe one thing in the Bible is literal, it means you MUST also believe that EVERYTHING in the Bible is literal…
And this is me schooling Proclaimer last week…
Here’s Proclaimer making the same stupid argument FOUR YEARS AGO… and me schooling Proclaimer on the same exact stuff FOUR YEARS AGO!
I guess some things never change. I can’t figure out if Proclaimer is stupid for continuing to make this same stupid non-sequitur that he’s been schooled about for at least four years – or if he thinks WE are stupid and can’t figure out that he keeps using the same inane strawman argument over and over again.
Hey Proclaimer, if you believe Jesus LITERALLY dwelled on earth, it doesn’t HAVE TO MEAN that you ALSO believe he will return with a literal sword coming out of his mouth.
So if some idiot shows up one day making the argument against you that it DOES mean that, please tell them that they are making a non-sequitur strawman argument, and then roll your eyes at their stupidity and ponder whether you should continue engaging with a person who is so clearly below your intelligence level.
Just a little free advice for how to deal with stupid arguments you may come across some day. 😉
You want to hear something else funny that just dawned on me?
Gene: The language of the text in Gen 1:1&2, does lend itself to a past existence, Mike.
I find it hilarious that Gene, who has been ignoring countless scriptures here for over a decade in order to argue AGAINST the preexistence of Jesus has now begun ignoring scriptures in order to argue FOR the preexistence of the heaven and earth! 😁😅😂🤣
Jesus couldn’t have preexisted in a different form – but the entire heaven and earth could have? Too funny.
Carmel: John: 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
ME: Mike in the above scriptures, John mentioned TWO BEGINNINGS!
Is John1:1 a reference to Genesis 1:1?
Is John1:2 a reference to Genesis 1:3?
It is the same beginning in both verses. And in this case, they are both the same beginning as Gen 1:1 (there is no “beginning” mentioned in Gen 1:3). We know this because John 1:3 connects 1:1 and 1:2 to the creation of the physical world in which we currently live.
In other words, John is simply telling us that Jesus was with God when our world began. There are other scriptures, such as John 17:5 and Proverbs 8:22-31, where we’re told that Jesus was with God BEFORE our world began. But in John 1:1 and 1:2, John is talking about the beginning of our physical world, and telling us that Jesus was already there with his and our God, Yahweh, when the creation event began.
Berean: The truth is that Jesus was made, (generated, “ginomai”) so much better than the angels(not the OTHER angels)
Putting the word “OTHER” changes the whole meaning.Simple question Berean: Is Jesus a messenger of God? Yes or no?
Carmel: As you can read, both verses have different concepts.
No they don’t. Both verses contain a book of life which has existed since the foundation of the world. In one of the two verses, we’re told that this book of life belongs to the Lamb who was slain.
Carmel: Now read these translations hereunder, THERE ‘S NO AMBIGUITY AT ALL!
KJV. Rev. 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life OF THE LAMB slain from the foundation of the world.
Apparently you didn’t understand what the NET scholars were saying. The ambiguity lies in the placement of the Greek words – which can be taken two different ways in Rev 13:8 – but only ONE way in Rev 17:8.
So 17:8 clearly speaks of a book of life that has been around since the earth began. 13:8 also mentions this same book – and the fact that “something” has been around since the earth began. In 13:8, one could translate the words into English as meaning the Lamb had been slain since the earth began – which would be utter nonsense – OR those same words could be translated as meaning that the same book of life has been around since the earth began – just as we’re clearly told in 17:8.
And since 17:8 unambiguously speaks of a book of life from since the foundation of the world, and 13:8 COULD BE speaking of a book of life from since the foundation of the world (or the utterly ridiculous notion of a lamb who has been in the process of being continually murdered non-stop, minute after minute, hour after hour, day after day from since the world began), the only logical conclusion is that 13:8 is talking about the same exact book of life from since the earth began that 17:8 is clearly talking about.
Another famous example is Luke 23:43…
KJV… And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
This is another nonsense translation, since Jesus was going to DEATH – not to “paradise”. But if you move the comma from after “you” to after “today”, then you get the following very sensible translation:
And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise.”
The scripture means that Jesus is telling him the thing today – not that Jesus and the thief were both going to paradise on that very day.
Anyway, I don’t necessarily mind that most of what you’ve been bringing up lately has nothing whatsoever to do with this fact that you can’t honestly deny: Yahweh Himself included the very creation of the heaven and earth WITHIN the six days of creation.
I don’t mind because it has been giving me a chance to exercise my scriptural muscles and teach you some things you obviously didn’t know. So keep them coming. Just make sure they are in short posts.
Mike: Carmel, in Ex 20:11 and 31:17, Yahweh Himself includes the very CREATION of heaven and earth WITHIN the six days of creation.
Carmel: THAT’S ONLY ACCORDING TO YOU!
It’s according to me BECAUSE it’s according to scripture.
Mike: The Bible leaves NO room for Gen 1 to be talking about a heaven and earth that are different from the ones that were created within the six day period that ended with the creation of Adam and Eve.
Your argument has never had any merit, and is thoroughly debunked by Yahweh Himself. End of story.
Carmel: YOU BET IT’S END OF STORY!
Thank you. What else would you like to learn about concerning the scriptures?
Berean: Carmel, Gene,
You have no reason to doubt the FACT” that God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days as we know them (i.e. 24-hour days). (Exodus 20:11 and 31:17)
Correct. And let’s add Proclaimer and anyone else who holds Scientism in higher authority than God’s written word to that list too.
LU: I asked him to admit to many false accusations which he didn’t agree with and ended up lying to me about some things and I told him that we weren’t going to be able to discuss anything until he faced those false allocations he made about me. I told him that I would be happy to discuss after he faced them but he denies them. I’m not interested in playing games.
Actually, I began the thread with scriptures and questions that destroyed Kathi’s doctrine right out of the gate. So she said, “You said ‘X’ in another thread, and you need to take it back and apologize before I address your posts that actually have to do with what we’re supposed to be discussing here”. *
So even though I was accurate when I said “X”, I took it back and apologized – in an effort to get back to what we were supposed to be discussing.
But then she said, “Well, you also said ‘Y’ in this other thread, and you need to also take it back and apologize before I address your posts that actually have to do with what we’re supposed to be discussing here”. *
So even though I was accurate when I said “Y”, I took it back and apologized – in an effort to get back to what we were supposed to be discussing.
And then she said, “Well, you also said ‘Z’ in this other thread, and you need to also take it back and apologize before I address your posts that actually have to do with what we’re supposed to be discussing here”. *
And at that point, I realized that she didn’t actually want to discuss her silly doctrine, and was going to just keep on stalling by forcing me to take back things that were true, and apologize for things I wasn’t sorry for saying – just to keep me stringing along but never actually getting to discussing the thing she started the thread to discuss.
So I told her I was done jumping through her hoops and apologizing for things I wasn’t sorry for – and even retracted my former fake apologies because I had done nothing wrong – and only fake apologized in the first place so she would get on with addressing my scriptures and points that destroyed her doctrine.
So NOW… if I’m a good boy and apologize again for retracting the first apologies, un-retract them, and then apologize for a dozen other things I didn’t do wrong – the carrot is still right there at the end of her stick, and maybe, just maybe, we’ll get around to her actually addressing my scriptures and points before the end of 2025.
But I guess I’m just a bad boy instead of a good boy, because I dang sure ain’t doing any of that crap! 🤣
And that’s the REAL reason why Kathi has run away from the scriptures and questions I presented her with to start her new thread – which was supposed to be a place where she’d allow us to examine and scrutinize her unscriptural doctrine, and where she’d stand and scripturally defend it.
*Note to Lightenup: The above “quotes” are not verbatim words that you said, but are my own paraphrases of how the events transpired. This should be evident from the fact that you never literally accused me of saying the letters “X”, “Y”, and “Z”, or wanted my apology for saying those letters. But just so I don’t have to see a bunch of posts from you demanding that I show you where you said those exact words and demanding more apologies, I thought it wise to spell this obvious fact out for you.
LU: Mike,
You said: Not a “son”. Not a “they”. Not a “Yahweh Unity of the Spirit”. Just our heavenly Father named Yahweh – who is a single male person referred to as “he”.
Simply put, we disagree. Many can see it. Sorry you won’t.
Who can see it, Kathi? The only one I know who believes that God is a unity of Yahweh the Father and “Yahweh the Son” (but NOT a “Yahweh the Spirit” third person) is you. There are a lot of Trinitarians that believe in God the Father, “God the Son”, and “God the Holy Spirit” – but that is not YOUR doctrine, and so please don’t try to INCLUDE those people into your doctrine.
So really… who else besides yourself do you know that believes the Most High God is comprised of ONLY the Father and the Son (but not the Spirit as a third person in the unity)?
LU: Eph 6:23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Notice that Jesus is included with the Father as distinct from the brethren. Over and over you can see that if you are willing.
Paul is also “distinct” from the brethren in that verse. As he is in this statement to the church in Corinth…
For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia…
Notice that “the brethren” are “you” – as opposed to “we” and “us”. So your point doesn’t say anything about Jesus BEING his and our own God as you apparently imagine it does.
But while we’re on the subject of brethren, why do you suppose “God” is our FATHER, while “Jesus” is not only our BROTHER, but also a joint heir of God along with us?
Kind of strange for the Most High God to be not only both our Father and our Brother – but also a joint heir of an inheritance FROM “God” along with us, don’t you think?
See, your doctrine is easily debunked with simple things like this. If only there was a place where we could all get down to scrutinizing it while you try to defend it scripturally. Hmm… 🤔
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