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Proclaimer
Berean, there is not enough in the text to state what you said as a fact. And I think gene is saying that the text can support his view.
I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE WITH YOU AND WITH GENE.
Gene has no biblical source to say such things. As far as I’m concerned, I don’t care about science until it goes along with THE WORD OF GOD.
Berean……You mean , you don’t care about Science unless it meets your views, right?
IN Genesis 1v2, go and please check out the word (was) and you will find it can be translated from the Hebrew word , meaning ….Became, as in, came to be, the words (was) with (void) it could mean……it became or came to be, (bo’-hoo) meaning empty, a ruin.
There is evidence both from scripture and science that supports this earth is way older then just 6000 years. This earth could have been covered by water, many times and different types of creations put on it in the past and then wiped out and restarted again. We maybe in only the last 8000 year time period of another creation, and after this, it will be destoryed again, and a new heaven and earth is prophesied to begin. God the Father did say he would make all thing new, so the idea of God renewing things is not something new to the scriptures, now is it?
Peace and love to you and yours Berean…………gene
Gene,
Berean……You mean , you don’t care about Science unless it meets your views, right?
Me
No, unless It meet THE WORD OF GOD, It IS DIFFERENT.
Gene has no biblical source to say such things. As far as I’m concerned, I don’t care about science until it goes along with THE WORD OF GOD.
What I think you are really saying.
As far as I’m concerned, I don’t care about science until it goes along with my interpretation which is the stance that the SDA takes regarding this passage in THE WORD OF GOD.
So you admit that you are unscientific. That is fine. But what scripture exactly proves to you that creation was made in 6 literal 24 hour days, even before the Sun was created.
Just your no1 reason please. I do not want to respond to an essay.
God does not say that He restored a destroyed earth which needed restoration but that He created from scratch the earth which did not exist before. What you are suggesting is totally wrong. It is our present earth that needs to be purified by fire and recreated, and we know that God is going to do this especially by Peter, John and Isaiah 2Peter 3:7; Revelation 20;21; Isaiah 65:17; 66:22)
God flooded the earth in Noah’s day. God will renew the earth with fire next. So ask yourself how God will make a new heavens and new earth because you obviously have to hold that God will actually delete the current heavens and earth and rebuild a new one from scratch. If so, then to be consistent with your teaching, you are forced to also believe that you will not exist at some point in the future.
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
Question for you Berean or for your SDA elders.
Do you agree with the following statement? Yes or No.If you become a new creation, then you cease to exist, and a new version of you is created to replace you.
Question for you Berean or for your SDA elders.
Do you agree with the following statement? Yes or No.If you become a new creation, then you cease to exist, and a new version of you is created to replace you.
This is the problem with many SDA activists even I am having my own cousin who is also a hardcore SDA fighter. Recently I was studying on the New Creation narrated by the Third Isaiah in Isaiah 65:17-25. That is no where comparable to the mythological New Creation narrations brought out by those NT writers like 2 Peter 3 or the final book on Apocalypses Revelation 21-22.
Isiah 65:17
17 For I am about to create new heavens
and a new earth;
the former things shall not be remembered
or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I am creating;
for I am about to create Jerusalem as a joy,
and its people as a delight.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
and delight in my people;
no more shall the sound of weeping be heard in it,
or the cry of distress.
20 No more shall there be in it
an infant that lives but a few days,
or an old person who does not live out a lifetime;
for one who dies at a hundred years will be considered a youth,
and one who falls short of a hundred will be considered accursed.21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
they shall not plant and another eat;
for like the days of a tree shall the days of my people be,
and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
or bear children for calamity;[e]
for they shall be offspring blessed by the Lord—
and their descendants as well.
24 Before they call I will answer,
while they are yet speaking I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,
the lion shall eat straw like the ox;
but the serpent—its food shall be dust!
They shall not hurt or destroy
on all my holy mountain,
says the Lord.The above descriptions on the New creation are no where comparable to the descriptions of the NT writers who had imagined great and invented strange things where another creation will be made from Ex-Nihilo after destroying the present heaven and earth. And there will be no more death. But the writer of Isaiah 65 clearly talk about the creation similar to the first creation in Genesis but without the curse and limited life span. That is similar to the man’s life before the Noah’s Flood as mentioned in Genesis 5. Verse 25 talks about pure non-violence and vegetarianism which was granted by God in Genesis 1. I find this new creation mentioned in Isaiah 65-66 is more appropriate than that of 2 Peter3 or Revelation 21-22.
Your posts are all the same gadam. You are so predictable.
Old Testament good, New Testament bad. Because Jesus is not the Christ. Lol.
And i can see why you want to discredit the New Testament.
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.
Hi Proclaimer, you are not much keen on my posts as I am for none here. I am a rationalist on the religion. Please read my posts on Mike’s “Many Gods of the Bible”. I find the NT writings are more developed and evolved after so many centuries but are more mythological than those of Hebrew scriptures.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion and you are sovereign over your own choices. The messiah is there for us to choose or reject. You have made your choice and I have made mine.
Thanks for your understanding mine. But the Christian Messiah is no where near to that of Hebrew Messiah. It’s so funny that Christianity pretends to have the Hebrew Messiah who was simply meant for the nation Israel and for the physical worldly kingdom and not for so the called non-worldly kingdom as claimed by the NT writers.
Adam……I disagree with you on the idea that the New Testement was just for the Hebrews, alone. The apostle Paul who wrote most of the books, was an apostle to the Gentiles. While the first to receive were the Jew’s only a 1/13 part of the nation of Israel , and they rejected it, as you seem to be now doing, then came the Gentiles , after that came the other ten tribes of Israel, known as the, “Lost Sheep” of the house of Israel”.
So in saying the preaching of Jesus was “only” to the nation of THE HEBREWS is simply not true brother. The New Testement teachings, includes all the Gentile nations. Remember what scripture says, “God is “NO” RESPECTER OF PERSONS.” The new testement writings are for all, to receive or reject Adam. Why are you taking sides with those Jews who have rejected it? That’s the question, don’t let these haters of our Lord Jesus, who died for our sins, deciever you brother.
REMEMBER when the Jews said , “let his blood be upon our head, and the head of our childern”, Look what happened to them as a Nation over the years, after that, indeed Jesus’s blood fell on them Adam . What will happen to us, if we “NEGLECT” SO GREAT A SALVATION”? We have been given so many witnesses that have attested to him.
GET AWAY FROM THOSE JEWS , WHO REJECT OUR Lord Jesus Christ, our true MESSIAH, whom God the Father sent to us and for us brother, and is about to send him back soon. Time is short Adam , “VERY SHORT” , DON’T LET THOSE UNBELIEVING JEW’S CAUSE YOU TO LOOSE OUT , they reject him because they don’t want the blood of Jesus, the true “Messiah” to be on their heads.
Peace and love to you and yours Adam. ……….gene
GET AWAY FROM THOSE JEWS , WHO REJECT OUR Lord Jesus Christ, our true MESSIAH, whom God the Father sent to us and for us brother, and is about to send him back soon. Time is short Adam , “VERY SHORT” , DON’T LET THOSE UNBELIEVING JEW’S CAUSE YOU TO LOOSE OUT , they reject him because they don’t want the blood of Jesus, the true “Messiah” to be on their heads.
Sorry brother Gene, I am not for anyone here. I am just rationally interpreting the Biblical texts on neutral ground. The Messianic concepts mentioned in the Hebrew Bible are no where nearer to Christian New Testament’s concepts on Jesus the so called Messiah. Please take the example of Mike who calls Jesus another god among the multiple gods mentioned in the OT. Sister Kathi claims Jesus as another Yahweh along with Father Yahweh. Proclaimer and other preexisting believers claim that Jesus was created by God before all creation and came to Jerusalem after leaving his divine nature. Sister Jodi and yourself claim that Jesus was just a human like you and me but he was Jewish Messiah who died for our sins and became a savior of the mankind.
I am searching the ancient religious texts to analyse all these diverse understandings on Messiah. I find there are lot of flaws on most of the NT writings and Christian beliefs on Messiah who was meant basically for the nation Israel and for the physical worldly kingdom which has not yet taken place so far in the history of both Judaism and Christianity.
So please have broad understanding on these concepts brother.
Adam……If you were rational then you would understand what “fallen Christanity” is saying is what is wrong , not what the “original” meaning of the text says. No where does Jesus say there are other God, nor does he ever call himself a God of a kind, in fact he tells he is not God or a God of anykind . He calls God the Father this “THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD”, that along should tell you , that the over all teaching that, “they” teach, is wrong, and even Jesus said that the Big (LIE) would be about who he really is. 2THS 2, EVEN CLARIFIES IT FURTHER.
THERE is a false Jesus (the God Jesus), but also there is also a (true Jesus ) the human Messiah sent by God the Father . Well does it say , “wide is the way to destruction and “MANY” go in threat thereof, but “NARROW’ is the way that leads to life, and “FEW” find it.
You seem to not really be seeking “truth”, but have thrown your hat in with the way the world thinks, the deceived . SAD
Peace and love to you and yours Adam. …………..gene
What I think you are really saying.
As far as I’m concerned, I don’t care about science until it goes along with my interpretation which is the stance that the SDA takes regarding this passage in THE WORD OF GOD.
So you admit that you are unscientific. That is fine. But what scripture exactly proves to you that creation was made in 6 literal 24 hour days, even before the Sun was created.
Just your no1 reason please. I do not want to respond to an essay.
Me
FIRST POINT: I am not against TRUE SCIENCE, GOD’S SCIENCE. TO ME, THE SCIENCE BEHIND THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION IS A FALSE SCIENCE.
THEREFORE TRUE SCIENCE CONDUCTED BY MEN CAN ONLY GO IN THE DIRECTION OF THAT OF GOD.POINT 2: LITTERAL DAYS OF 24 HOURS 👉 GOD IS that God OF LOVE God is a God who is close to his creatures, in this case we humans. He did everything, provided everything, to make us happy.
The evening and the morning form a day in Genesis 1 .( The day according to God, begins with sunset and ends at the next sunset.
So, We have in Genesis 1 the day according to God, which begins with sunset and ends with the following sunset.
Even if the sun was absent until the 4th day, the first three days were determined with darkness (evening) and light (day) not to mention the rotation of the earth on itself (about 24 hours)
which certainly happened.I therefore believe in an almighty God, love, and close to us.
AND Just as God worked in creating the heavens and the earth in 6 days, and rested on the seventh day, so we too are invited to work six days and rest on the seventh day (as we are commanded the fourth commandment of God: Exodus 20)
The reste follows afrer…
You seem to not really be seeking “truth”, but have thrown your hat in with the way the world thinks, the deceived . SAD
Hi brother Gene, I know you may not be happy about my statements on God and religion these days. I have been searching the truth for the past 25 years. I had started this journey with Trinity and landed on skepticism. I have become much rational on the religion after this COVID Pandemic and its havoc on mankind.
I have studied much on ancient biblical texts which I used to honor with much reverence in my life but lost all faith in them due to their primitive nature and far beyond reality.
I find the biblical religion is like any other religion which is developed and evolved much as for the passage of time and space. I even found biblical creation stories are much primitive when compared to our post-modern scientific discoveries. I also find the so called end time prophecies are mere speculations and are not relevant for our present times.
In spite of all the above skepticism I am still maintaining my spirituality in the family and society but with love and much humanity with my fellow beings.
Thank you and love to you…..Adam
Proclaimer : God flooded the earth in Noah’s day. God will renew the earth with fire next. So ask yourself how God will make a new heavens and new earth because you obviously have to hold that God will actually delete the current heavens and earth and rebuild a new one from scratch. If so, then to be consistent with your teaching, you are forced to also believe that you will not exist at some point in the future.
Me.
I do not go into how God will recreate new heavens and a new earth after the thousand years because HIM alone knows, I rely only on the WORD OF GOD.
Read AND believe
2Pet.3
[1] This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
[2] That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.👇
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holyconversation and godliness,[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
👇
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
[14] Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
[16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
[17] Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
[18] But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.Proclaimer :Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
Question for you Berean or for your SDA elders.
Do you agree with the following statement? Yes or No.If you become a new creation, then you cease to exist, and a new version of you is created to replace you.
Me
….THEN You cease To exist…
Do You speak about 1Cor.15 ?
When Jesus returns, all the living saints and the resurrected (with new bodies) will meet him in the air. (NOT TO STAY ON THE EARTH WHICH WILL BE IN FIRE AND BLOOD.
1Cor.15: Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51]Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be CHANGED,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised INCORRUPTIBLE, and we (the living ones)shall be CHANGED.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
[55] O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
[56] The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
[57] But thanks be to God, which gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.FROM THIS ,WE SEE THAT GOD SHALL PROTECT HIS PEOPLE WHEN JESUS RETURN.
John.14
[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
[2] In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.THIS MEAN THAT DURING THE MILLÉNIUM , GOD PEOPLE WILL BE IN HEAVEN WITH GOD AND THAT AFTER THAT
👇
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.And
👇
lake of fire.
Rev.21
[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
[2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
[5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.In spite of all the above skepticism I am still maintaining my spirituality in the family and society but with love and much humanity with my fellow beings.
Hi Gadam
You certainly know this text :
What do You think about ?
1Cor.13
[1] Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
[2] And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
[3] And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
[4] Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
[5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
[6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
[7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
[8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
[9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
[11] When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
[12] For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
[13] And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.Hi Mike,
Carmel: So THERE’S A CLEAR POSSIBILITY that the earth that was ORIGINALLY created by God as being destroyed by God’s PREDETERMINED PLAN of a rebellion that preceded THIS KIND OF man’s existence upon THIS KIND OF planet.
You: There is nothing in the scriptures to indicate any such thing.
And heaven wasn’t created until day 2, Carmel.
12How art thou fallen from HEAVEN, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning?
how art thou fallen to THE EARTH,
that didst wound the nations?
Ezekiel 28:12
12And say to him: Thus saith the Lord God: Thou wast the seal of resemblance, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13Thou wast in the pleasures of the paradise of God:…..
15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day of thy creation,
until iniquity was found in thee.
18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thy iniquities, and by the iniquity of thy traffic: therefore I will bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, to devour thee, and I will make thee as ashes upon THE EARTH in the sight of all that see thee.
Luke 4:5And the devil led him into a high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time; 6And he said to him: To thee will I give all this power, and the glory of them;
for to me they are delivered, and to whom I will, I give them.
Me: The above scriptures Mike, determine
The heaven and the earth of Genesis 1:1 originally created perfect, and also, at a certain moment in time there was a rebellion and
nations were destroyed!
Plus that ALL THE KINGDOMS of this world were delivered to Lucifer/Satan definitely as part of the deal prior to the creation of the six-day creation, termed LIGHT and DARKNESS, GOOD and EVIL, and so on.
Just reflect on this verse in Ezekiel 28:18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thy iniquities,
and by the iniquity of thy traffic:
Attention please:
therefore I will bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, to devour thee, and
I will make thee as ashes upon THE EARTH in the sight of all that see thee.
The above is a direct reference to the six-day creation of the world well before its creation commenced in Genesis 1:3
Peace and Lov in Jesus Christ
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