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Proclaimer: Then he would probably stop this nonsense and apologize for trying to deceive people about the earth and what the scriptures say about it.
Gene: Proclaimer…….I do not see Mike as a deceiver in any way, he believes what he says, and if he is wrong, he will work through it , just as we all do also.
Thank you and God bless you, Gene. Proclaimer has a disconnect when it comes to people who disagree with him. It’s never that the other person is simply “mistaken” – it’s always that the other person is a willful deceiver, purposely trying to tell other people things that they know to be false in an effort to intentionally mislead them.
In my school, we had “True or False” tests. In Proclaimer’s school, they must have had “True or LIE” tests – because he has grown up believing that those are the only two options. 😁
But you are right… I truly and 100% believe the Bible (and science) that we live on a stationary flat plane, and have a hard-as-bronze domed firmament over us, in which the sun, moon, and stars run their God-appointed circuits over us like a giant sky clock by which we can tell days, seasons, and years. (Gen 1:6-8; 14-15)
Proclaimer: But what I have witnessed first hand is when some cannot admit their fault and dig their heels in. This can be the start of it.
It always pays to be honest and concede a point if you know you were debunked. If a person doesn’t love truth that much, then do they really deserve it?
Says the guy who’s digging his heels in trying everything to pretend that Isaiah was talking about God sitting enthroned ABOVE a spinning ball encompassed by a spherical tent, and that Jesus was given a vision by Satan in which we somehow lived on a flat earth with a mountain high enough to see every kingdom – even though the real earth is a ball where that could never happen. 🙄😎
Proclaimer: It is possible that evil people set this virus on us so they could give us a vaccine that will thin out the human herd within a number of years or decades.
That is 100% what has happened. The strings are just now starting to unravel, but the truth will out very soon…
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/15/wuhan-lab-leak-now-likely-origin-covid-mps-told/
Proclaimer: Vaccines have saved millions of lives.
Again… PROVE IT or don’t claim it.
Proclaimer: I’ll let you into a little secret. When you believe in a flat earth despite all the scientific evidence and the lack of biblical evidence, then very few people will take you seriously on your other beliefs. And who can blame them.
Credibility is earned. You don’t get it for free and you can lose it.
We’re currently just discussing the bold underlined part. So far Adam is the only one who has chimed in on the undeniable fact that the Bible is a flat and stationary earth book – but maybe others will in the future. (Again, I’m not currently discussing whether or not the earth is flat and stationary IN ACTUALITY – but only whether or not that’s what the Bible teaches.) You stopped arguing against the stationary part, because I showed you the error of your ways. So now all you have left is to argue the flat part – because you think that will somehow save you from your loss on the stationary part. And now that you’ve dug your heels in on THREE different teachings that would be impossibilities unless the earth was flat (according to scriptures), people reading this thread have indeed come to see how you’re losing your credibility. Remember, it doesn’t come free and you can lose it. 😉
On the plus side, being recognized as a pride-filled fraud on one topic doesn’t mean you are a fraud on other ones, and so I reject your notion that disagreement on one thing leads people to consider your other arguments automatically flawed as well. So there’s some good new for you.
Gene: Proclaimer……There are approximately 250 births per minute in this world, that equals 15000 every hour and that equals to 360, 000 per day or 131, 400,000 births per year. Compare the Covid-19 deaths to that and you can see how insignificant that really is and that isn’t even taking into account the fact that most of the COVID-19 deaths were related to many other factors, unrelated to the virus . The whole thing so far has seemed to have been over blown. Proclaimer, Mike does have some strong points on this COVID-19 thing and even Miia also, I can see some of their concerns .
Gene, you have no idea how good that makes people like me, Miia, and Jodi feel. We aren’t posting this stuff to trick anyone, but to show facts and data that make it clear exactly what’s happening – and why.
Listen… the USA usually has between 40-60 million flu cases every year. In 2020, there were 2800. Those are the data – now you only have to ask yourself WHY.
This was never about a virus, but about the takeover of a worldwide New World Order where a handful of “elites” get rid of billions of us and rule over those remaining as slaves. It wasn’t supposed to happen until 2025, and it was supposed to follow World War 3. But Trump got in the way of their plans. Once they cheated him out of power (or so they currently believe), they had to speed everything up so there’s no chance he or someone else like him can come into power and thwart their plans again.
See, we were the frogs in the pot of water. They have been increasing the heat so slowly for decades that we would have just died without knowing it was happening. Trump and Q woke us up to what was taking place, and what you see now as pure craziness from leaders all over the world is the result of them having no choice but to act so rapidly that they can’t worry about the optics of what we’re all seeing take place right before our eyes.
They KNOW that their actions look crazy. They KNOW that millions of more people are waking up because they have to move so fast now. But they have no other option. It’s either succeed on a time scale that’s way shorter than what they had planned, or lose everything.
Unfortunately, so many people are so THOROUGHLY asleep that they can’t even see what’s being done to them AS it happens to them! It sounds like you are beginning to wake up a little. May God open your eyes the rest of the way like He did for Elisha’s servant.
Proclaimer: Regardless, it could turn out that Omicron or some other variant will vaccinate us all in the end. And this does raise another question. If all you need to do is release a harmless but more contagious version of Covid into the world, then when that becomes the dominant strain, everyone gets antibodies from that and for free.
Speaking of which, this is the guy who created the mRNA technology that you got injected with (although you likely got a placebo like most people)…
So it’s almost like a Godsend. And that’s what the actual data suggests…
But despite the clear data, look at the CRAZY response from leaders…
Can you see now what I just told Gene? They KNOW that their actions look crazy – but they have no other option. The deep state appears to be boxed into a corner and on its last legs. But only if enough people wake up to what’s going on.
Proclaimer: Yes, because if you continue the line from your sky or mine, you will reach the edge of the universe
And if you draw a line down into the smallest of things like atoms, electrons, quarks, and so on, then you also end at God.
If God is there, then of course he can be outward from New Zealand and the US on a globe too.
So your explanation is that because “God is everywhere”, He can be above you and above me when we’re on opposite sides of a ball? I think you are misunderstanding some scriptures that speak about the presence of God – not the person of God – and certainly not God’s throne which is surrounded by four creatures, the throne of Jesus, and the thrones of 24 elders.
When we’re told in Job 1:6 that all the sons of God came to present themselves before God and Satan was among them, where exactly did these angels congregate? Everywhere at once? Are the 24 elders also everywhere at the same time?
Also consider this alleged photo from Apollo 8 orbiting the moon…
Notice that it’s not a “circle”. For God to sit enthroned above “the circle of the earth” in your theory, God must be in the direction of the sun at all times. Only then would He see the circular full half of the illuminated ball from the perspective of the light source. And of course He couldn’t be beyond the sun, or He wouldn’t be able to see that full “circle of the earth” straight on because the enormous sun would be in the way, right?
So do you suppose that God’s throne is somewhere between the earth and the sun, and He is shooting across the vastness of outer space at millions of miles per hour along with the sun? And that God’s footstool (the earth) is a ball that spins under His feet and that His throne rotates around as if it’s on a Lazy Susan so God can always be directly between the earth and sun?
Or perhaps you suppose (like the ones who created the sun-worshiping model to which you subscribe) that God is the sun itself? Don’t you ever wonder why all of the “outer space” missions are named after pagan gods? I mean, the image above was taken from one of our supposed moon missions – that were named after the Greek sun god! How much more can they throw it in your face?
But no, God is not literally everywhere. Nor is He literally “all in all”. If He was then he’d BE everything, and everything would BE God.
Now remember… we are discussing how ISAIAH understood the earth. Your arguments have all been attempts to equate a circle with a spinning ball that’s flying through one of billions of galaxies at millions of mph. Do you think that is what ISAIAH was trying to convey to us with his statement about a circle with a heaven-tent over it? Do you think that’s what God was trying to convey to Neb and Daniel with a tree so tall the whole earth could see it? Do you think that’s what Jesus was trying to convey with a mountain so tall he could see all the kingdoms of the world from the top of it?
Remember, we’re not discussing whether or not the earth is a spinning ball in actuality right now. We’re only discussing whether or not the Bible teaches that the earth is a spinning ball. Does it?
Proclaimer: Think for a minute Mike. Why do we not see much of the following diseases anymore?
Polio;
Tetanus;
Hepatitis B;
Hepatitis A;
Rubella;
Hib;
Measles;
Whooping Cough;
Pneumococcal Disease;
Rotavirus;
Mumps;
Chickenpox;
Diphtheria.When I went to school, I had to have 5 vaccines. Kids today have to get 76 to be allowed in public schools. Proclaimer, why do you suppose that nobody has ever suggested that you and I go in for the other 70 shots that kids get today? (Please answer this question.)
I just watched the Brady Bunch episode with the measles again today. The Brady kids were so happy to miss school with something that required no medicine, and Jan Brady was even more thrilled that it required no shots! They just laid around and played board games for a week, and loved it.
But today… “Get your measles shot or YOU WILL DIE!” 😁
Listen… I don’t believe there is ANY vaccine ever created that helps anyone in any way. I believe the entire idea of vaccines was Rockefeller’s first attempt at creating a Big Pharma organization that would get a bunch of evil bastards rich by buying off politicians who would then require these useless shots for people who blindly trusted that – after thousands of years – mankind all of a sudden needs these things to survive.
Make gullible sheep very afraid of some invisible enemy that’s out to get them, and those sheep will blindly do just about anything you tell them to. We’re witnessing Rockefeller’s magnum opus before our very eyes today.
Gene: My cousin died day before yesterday from COVID-19. He was on a ventilator five weeks…
Gene, they could have given him Ivermectin or HCQ and he’d never have been on the ventilator in the first place. I already posted about one guy sentenced to death on a ventilator whose daughter went to court to make the hospital give him Ivermectin. Within 24 hours he was off the ventilator, and today he’s fine.
Here’s another recent case…
Looks like some brave judges are starting to save some lives finally, thank God. I haven’t heard how this lady is doing, but she has been given the Ivermectin and so I suspect she’s probably already out of the hospital by now.
Gene, hospitals are purposely killing people for money. Here’s how it works…
1. Person comes in feeling a little bad.
2. Hospital sends them home (instead of prescribing monoclonal antibodies that will fix the problem immediately), tells them to come back if it gets way worse.
3. Person comes back to hospital because they can no longer breathe well (infection that could have been stopped has ravaged through their lungs by now).
4. Hospital gives them very expensive Remdesivir (not very cheap Ivermectin or HCQ), which doesn’t help them and even causes kidney failure. (Kidney failure increases the fluids in the body – which is what is making it hard for them to breathe in the first place.)
5. Hospital gets a 20% bonus on the entire hospital bill for prescribing Remdesivir…
6. Hospital puts them in a coma and on an intubator (which pays the hospital another $26,000 bonus).
7. Patient dies on the ventilator, never to be conscious again after being put in the coma.
8. Deep state has another “Covid 19 death” to keep the fear porn and the big money vax operation rolling along smoothly.
And remember Gene, the current Covid tests can’t even distinguish between Covid and the flu. The CDC and the FDA admit this, and are supposed to be rolling out new tests very soon. So your cousins might have died (not FROM Covid, but) from LACK OF PROPER TREATMENT of Covid… or they might have died from complications associated with the normal flu – like millions do every year. In either case, it was the lack of proper and readily available treatments – not the flu or Covid – that killed them.
And in either case, I’m sorry for your loss brother. Please make sure you have a supply of Ivermectin on hand and ready to go in case you catch another bad case. And whatever you do, don’t go the to damn hospital for it!
But today… “Get your measles shot or YOU WILL DIE!”
In the past, the death rate for children was very high. And lots of kids had symptoms from many of the resulting diseases.
I would prefer not to subject my kids to the risk even if there is a risk from the vaccines. Diseases like Polio were not pretty. I can remember kids with this disease and others. Maybe you can’t remember?
Thank you. It’s evident that the Bible teaches a flat earth that is held up by pillars and cannot be moved.
Lol.
If I’m a pillar of my community, that means I’m made of concrete right?
The Lord was going before them in a pillar of cloud by day to lead them on the way, and in a pillar of fire by night to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night. He did not take away the pillar of cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night,
So Mike. Are these pillars made of concrete or stone like the ones that hold the flat earth up?
Let our sons in their youth be as grown-up plants,
And our daughters as corner pillars fashioned as for a palace;And now our sons are literal plants and daughters are made of concrete.
Lol.
There is so much more I could say on this subject.
Here is a story about a guy in NZ who died from the Covid-19 vaccine. Whilst I am very suspicious of mainstream media in general, it is probably way more balanced than what you report Mike. It looks quite rare.
Says the guy who’s digging his heels in trying everything to pretend that Isaiah was talking about God sitting enthroned ABOVE a spinning ball encompassed by a spherical tent, and that Jesus was given a vision by Satan in which we somehow lived on a flat earth with a mountain high enough to see every kingdom – even though the real earth is a ball where that could never happen.
Hilarious. When I look around me, I do a sweeping 360 degree view. Above me is God. Inside me is God too. You see the flat earth in the same way some see the Trinity.
A sphere is a 3D circle. The circle of the earth is suppose to be the no1 biblical proof for a flat earth. This means that the bible doesn’t teach a flat earth because the no1 verse failed miserably. Imagine then how bad no2 or no3 verses must be.
It’s like me saying that NZ has the fastest runners in the world and then touting the no1 runner as running 100 metres in 10 minutes. That would mean that no2 and no3 runners were even worse.
Lol.
Notice that it’s not a “circle”. For God to sit enthroned above “the circle of the earth” in your theory, God must be in the direction of the sun at all times.
God is light. Do you think that the part in darkness would remain that way?
The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.
Thank you and God bless you, Gene. Proclaimer has a disconnect when it comes to people who disagree with him. It’s never that the other person is simply “mistaken” – it’s always that the other person is a willful deceiver, purposely trying to tell other people things that they know to be false in an effort to intentionally mislead them.
Read this verse slowly.
Indeed, all who desire to live godly lives in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil men and imposters go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
Now before you get upset about this verse, please note that I have not judged anyone. I am pointing out evil people are deceived and they in turn deceive. This means that they may not even be aware that this is happening because they are deceived. But just because we believe in God, this does not negate the process of being decieved. How does it happen. let me explain.
First off, pride is a sure way to being deceived. Because pride means we can reject correction. So pride precedes a fall. Another way is when we reject truth. If we reject it because we are subscribed to another doctrine, then you have used your own free will to choose the lie instead. God will allow you to do that. Hopefully if your heart is pure, this will not last long as the spirit will lead you toward the truth. But if you are stubborn and hard of hearing, then you do not deserve that truth. Simple as that.
I first saw this sort of thing with Trinitrarians where they outright rejected scripture that was given to them. Pride made them stick to the doctrine they were familiar with or brought up with and not even scripture could convince them otherwise. I have seen similar behaviour with pre-existence, flat earth, and atheism.
At the end of the day, we get to choose how much light we want to receive. Once a person gets to the stage of rejecting light, then they will not progress thereafter.
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
But if we are humble and receive correction and remain open to learning, then he who started a good work in us can carry it to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
Mike……I agree with that, we all are a work in progress, until we all grow up to the measure and full stature of Christ Jesus. That is why I always end with the words “peace and love to you and yours” , it’s because I know what you said in your last post is true brother.
peace and love to you and yours Mike……….gene
Gene, they could have given him Ivermectin or HCQ and he’d never have been on the ventilator in the first place. I already posted about one guy sentenced to death on a ventilator whose daughter went to court to make the hospital give him Ivermectin. Within 24 hours he was off the ventilator, and today he’s fine.
I am sorry for the sad news of cousin of brother Gene.
I think brother Mike may be right in his repeated attempts to convince us about Ivermectin. I am also slowly understanding the truth behind this miracle drug as we Indians unknowingly administering this drug to our people during this Pandemic.
Remember, we’re not discussing whether or not the earth is a spinning ball in actuality right now. We’re only discussing whether or not the Bible teaches that the earth is a spinning ball. Does it?
Yes this is what I am also agreeing with you Mike.
Proclaimer: In the past, the death rate for children was very high. And lots of kids had symptoms from many of the resulting diseases.
The measles vaccine still in use today in the US was first introduced in 1968. That Brady Bunch episode was released in 1969. The point is that all of the kids and even the Dad came down with measles, and it was no big deal. They were celebrating their time out of school – not frantically panicking over some “high death rate for children”, right?
Today measles is “OH NO! WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!” Back then, when I and the Brady kids had it, it was no big deal. It was NEVER any big deal, and the vaccine is simply a completely unnecessary money grab. I also had chicken pox, and still have a couple of scars from the sores that I kept picking as a kid. Again… no big deal. In fact, when I got the pox, my parents organized a neighborhood sleepover so all of the kids would get it at the same time and be done with it. No. Big. Deal.
Proclaimer: I would prefer not to subject my kids to the risk even if there is a risk from the vaccines.
You sound like a lot of young American moms today – deathly afraid to let their kids play in the dirt, and God forbid they accidentally touch some dog poop. But real science tells us that kids who put dirty worms and bugs in their mouths (like I did – I once ate a HUGE army ant) are priming their God-given immune systems for foreign invaders later on. Those “disinfectant” moms that are so afraid their kids may have touched a germ end up doing their kids a grave disservice.
Proclaimer: Diseases like Polio were not pretty. I can remember kids with this disease and others. Maybe you can’t remember?
My uncle had what used to be called polio. I’ve learned that it was already on its way out BEFORE the vaccines for it were invented. It’s still around in many parts of the world, and very few people are affected by it. I’ve heard that it never went away in the US either… they just started calling it “bacterial spinal meningitis” – but I haven’t delved that deeply into it.
Proclaimer: So Mike. Are these pillars made of concrete or stone like the ones that hold the flat earth up?
Are you asking me if pillars of smoke and fire are made of concrete? No, I don’t believe smoke and fire are made of concrete.
Psalm 75:3… The earth and all who dwell in it melt; It is I who have firmly set its pillars.
Job 38:4-7… Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? … On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone?
Are you further suggesting that the pillars/foundations on which God set the earth are comprised of man-made concrete? No, I don’t believe God would have used a man-made mixture for His pillars/foundations. There were no men around when He laid these things – which shoots down your idea that these pillars/foundations were people, don’t you think?
Another example of that, from Jesus…
Proverbs 8:27-29… When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep, when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth…
Why do you suppose Jesus used the same Hebrew word (circle) that Isaiah used? What does Jesus mean that the skies (ABOVE – not “out into space from anywhere on a ball”) are firm? And how could Jesus be talking about the foundations of the earth when there were no people yet, and you say the foundations of the earth are people?
As a side note, the only other place in scripture that has the Hebrew word Isaiah and Jesus used is this one…
Job 22:14… Thick clouds enwrap him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the dome of heaven.
The NET Bible scholars have this to say about it…
2 sn The word is “circle; dome”; here it is the dome that covers the earth, beyond which God sits enthroned. A. B. Davidson (Job, 165) suggests “on the arch of heaven” that covers the earth.
Are you starting to get a better picture of what Isaiah meant when he said “the circle of the earth” and “spreads out the heaven like a tent for us to dwell in”?
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