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Proclaimer: Your no1 proof verse about the circle of the earth worked to the favor of the globe. The disc only appears circular if you are at the right angle.
Globe won that point Mike.
You think so? Let’s examine it again…
Isaiah 40:22… He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
1. The word “above” eliminates your worldview, since “above” and “below” are meaningless in the heliocentric model. God cannot sit enthroned “above” you AND “above” me in your model.
2. Isaiah intentionally used the word “circle” – as opposed to the word “ball” that he used in 22:18 (“He will roll you up tightly like a ball and throw you into a large country.”) Nobody has ever had a game of catch with their kid and commented on how well the kid threw the CIRCLE to them. A ball is not a circle, and people don’t call a ball a circle just because they’re only seeing one half of it.
3. Isaiah described heaven as a “tent”. There is no such thing as a spherical tent that encapsulates a ball from all sides. But there are many domed tents that cover a flat circle of land, like circus big tops – and the tents of nomads both today and in the days of Isaiah…
This circular, domed nomad’s tent makes a perfect metaphor for how Isaiah understood our flat earth with a circular, domed firmament (that God called “heaven”) over it like a tent…
So as I said before, this isn’t a discussion of whether the earth is flat or a ball in actuality – but whether or not the Bible is a flat earth book. This is from the Barnes commentary on Is 40:22…
The phrase ‘circle,’ or ‘circuit of the earth,’ here seems to be used in the same sense as the phrase orbis terrarum by the Latins; not as denoting a sphere, or not as implying that the earth was a globe, but that it was an extended plain surrounded by oceans and mighty waters. The globular form of the earth was then unknown; and the idea is, that God sat above this extended circuit, or circle; and that the vast earth was beneath his feet.
So I have only one question for you: In 40:22, do you think Isaiah was describing a circular disc with a domed firmament covering it like a tent? Or a spinning ball?
Again, I’m not asking which one the earth is in actuality – just which one you think Isaiah was describing based on the words he used.
Proclaimer: Your no2 verse doesn’t work on a Flat Earth. You cannot stand on a hill in the Middle East and see all the kingdoms of the world from there, even if you used infrared.
He had a vision.
Globe wins again.
How exactly does you making up a claim that Satan gave Jesus a vision equate to a globe win? How exactly does your claim that it would be impossible on a flat earth equate to it being possible on a globe? And if it’s not possible on a globe either, then how is that a globe win? 🤔
Come, let’s reason together, saith the LORD.
Matthew 4:8… Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
If the earth was flat, then it is indeed possible – at least in theory – for a mountain to be high enough to see the entire earth from the top of it. On the other hand, if the earth was a ball, then it is a complete impossibility – even in theory – for there to be a mountain high enough to see the entire world from the top of it, right?
So no matter the outcome for a flat earth, this is most definitely a fail for a globe earth – not a “win” as you erroneously claim. So let’s just get that fact out there in the open.
And since that is the irrefutable case – and since we can only assume that Jesus knows the true shape of the earth – why on earth would Jesus tell his disciples that he was taken to the top of a very high mountain and shown all the kingdoms of the earth (vision or not), if such an event is an absolute impossibility – even in theory?
I would truly like your answer to the question this time – instead of more of you ignoring the question and beating your chest with false claims of a “globe victory”.
Let’s make sure you understand what I’m saying…
1. This is definitely a globe fail – no matter how tall the mountain might be.
2. But if the mountain was sufficiently tall (let’s say 25,000 miles high for argument’s sake), then it would be possible to see the entirety of the flat earth from the top of it.
The bottom line is that it is completely impossible on a ball earth, but possible in theory on a flat earth – if the mountain was high enough, the air was clear enough, and Jesus’ eyesight was good enough.
So I’m asking why Jesus would relate an event that everyone knew was a COMPLETE IMPOSSIBILITY (due to the spherical shape of the earth) to his disciples. What is your answer?
Proclaimer: Not one person in my son’s college, not one person in my suburb, not one person in football, not one person in my Facebook friend list, and not one famous person either has suffered because of the vaccine. What are the chances Mike? Numbers don’t lie.
Are you asking me what the chances are that you personally know everyone in NZ? I’d say very low. But here’s one of those unlucky people that you apparently didn’t know…
He started feeling heart flutters the very day he got the vax – but I’m sure there’s no connection whatsoever. 🙄
Proclaimer: 3,200 FULLY VACCINATED CRUISE PASSENGERS AND STAFF SUFFER COVID OUTBREAK, 17 CONFIRMED CASES
The “vaccines” don’t work. And no, there is no proof that they lessen the severity of the infection either. Only empty and baseless claims that they do.
Proclaimer: Good fortune with omicron?
This could become the natural vaccine for the unvaccinated.Natural immunity has always been the “vaccine” for EVERYONE. But notice the complete disconnect between what the FACTS are concerning Omicron (mild, no or very few hospitalizations, no deaths) with what the MSM, Big Pharma, and governments have conjured up already (new vaxxes that will be mandated, new lockdowns, new travel restrictions, “oh no, the sky is falling again!”).
The MSM has been proven to be nothing but a bunch of liars and propagandists. I can’t understand why anyone would believe anything they say.
Instead of Omicron ending the entire “pandemic”, they are trying to turn this very mild cold into the next black plague. So has it ever been about a virus or safety? Nope. It’s been about tyrannical control over the sheep ever since this biological weapon was released by China – and even for many years before that when [they] were planning it all out ahead of time.
Mike is missing a dimension or two
The word “above” eliminates your worldview, since “above” and “below” are meaningless in the heliocentric model. God cannot sit enthroned “above” you AND “above” me in your model.
When you draw a line away from a sphere, you are going up. You are thinking in 2D again. Add in the third dimension Mike.
Besides that, your no1 verse supports the globe. If you are honest, you will at least admit that to yourself. If my best piece of evidence for a theory also supported the opposing view, then that would mean all your evidence was extremally weak.
If I told you to meet up somewhere, I would need to give you 4 dimensions of information. The location and possibly the altitude if it was a multi-storey building and the time. Two dimensions doesn’t really solve that much Mike. Flat maps and paper can only crudely represent things in our 4D space.
Mike’s no1 support verse for a flat earth supports the globe
Isaiah intentionally used the word “circle” – as opposed to the word “ball” that he used in 22:18
When your no1 piece of evidence supports the opposing view, it doesn’t say much for your evidence does it?
When Isaiah looked out, he saw a circle. You don’t see a square right. Because that would be weird. Seeing things further at the corners. He also knew that God was above him. This is not a science lesson Mike. It is how people express themselves back in the day. I say the sun goes up and the sun goes down. That is how it looks from my perspective. But the sun doesn’t literally do up and down, but it does from our perspective. Perspective is what you seem to be missing Mike.
If God told me that I would see a long lost friend before the sun went down, then I don’t have a problem with that. Because God communicates in a way that we can understand if he wants us to understand.
The Bible is full of parables, symbols, and examples for us to learn from. Your argument about everything in the Bible being scientific or literal from a universal point of view is silly. Jesus does not have a double edged sword coming out of his mouth to smote his enemies in the sense that your framework should argue for. Why don’t you argue vehemently for that just as you do a flat earth? Because you know that yes it says this, but it means that.
Scripture does tell us that knowledge shall increase. And it has. Keep up or be left in the dark ages Mike. Many of the unsaved think God is a primitive explanation for the universe. You unfortunately support their deception in that respect.
I know you can do a better job encouraging people into the kingdom. Scaring them away because of one’s superstition and ignorance is unnecessary and harmful.
I’ll assume that this graph is correct. It would fit with restrictions being lifted, a more contagious mutation of the virus, and / or more testing. What it doesn’t absolutely say is that more people are dying or a injured by the virus or vaccine.
Adern the Socialist
I can’t wait for her to lose the election. Can’t come soon enough. There are too many politically correct people in New Zealand like many other western nations. Sad. It could be our undoing.
Natural immunity
Natural immunity has always been the “vaccine” for EVERYONE. But notice the complete disconnect between what the FACTS are concerning Omicron (mild, no or very few hospitalizations, no deaths) with what the MSM, Big Pharma, and governments have conjured up already (new vaxxes that will be mandated, new lockdowns, new travel restrictions, “oh no, the sky is falling again!”).
The MSM has been proven to be nothing but a bunch of liars and propagandists. I can’t understand why anyone would believe anything they say.
I agree with you and we have more in common in this respect than you think. But none of this addresses the fact that there is a virus out there that kills people and that vaccines have saved many lives.
The truth is not on either extreme.
Natural immunity is best. But why die trying to get this natural immunity? It is better to have a vaccine that can help with first contact thereby eliminating much of the risk and living to gain natural immunity thereafter.
Symptoms after the vax
He started feeling heart flutters the very day he got the vax – but I’m sure there’s no connection whatsoever.
Mike, once again, no one is saying that vaccines are 100% safe. Rather, the risks involved are way less than the risk of contracting Covid without antibodies. Now couple this with the fact that people die everyday and many unexpectantly. Understanding that, then there will be people who are going to die next Thursday and will also have recently had the vaccine because lots of people are being vaccinated. You can’t just join dots like you do and think this represents truth.
These one off cases prove nothing as far as real overall risks go.
You need a large pool of data to get near the truth. The bigger the pool, the better the stats.
If I asked 40 random people who they would vote for, that is not going to accurately predict the next election.
Isaiah 40:22… He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
1. The word “above” eliminates your worldview, since “above” and “below” are meaningless in the heliocentric model. God cannot sit enthroned “above” you AND “above” me in your model.
2. Isaiah intentionally used the word “circle” – as opposed to the word “ball” that he used in 22:18 (“He will roll you up tightly like a ball and throw you into a large country.”) Nobody has ever had a game of catch with their kid and commented on how well the kid threw the CIRCLE to them. A ball is not a circle, and people don’t call a ball a circle just because they’re only seeing one half of it.
3. Isaiah described heaven as a “tent”. There is no such thing as a spherical tent that encapsulates a ball from all sides. But there are many domed tents that cover a flat circle of land, like circus big tops – and the tents of nomads both today and in the days of Isaiah…
Very good explanation on Biblical Circular and Flat Earth Science.
Lol. You are both as bad as each other, but you make a good team when it comes to making out the scriptures are wrong or primitive. Gadam uses Mike to prove that the book and those who believe it are primitive and Mike keeps giving him more fodder. Hilarious and entertaining. Have you guys thought about going into business together? Maybe start a circus and do a world tour?
But for us who can think clearly and with effort to not be biased, here is what we know so far. I don’t expect either of you to understand or accept. But here goes.
The Bible doesn’t say the earth is flat. It uses language that we use, like the rising of the sun. Or a double edged sword coming from the mouth. That is because the Bible is full of symbols, parables, sayings, and examples for us to learn about spiritual things. Things that are beyond this world are taught to us in a language that we can understand.
The universe is a fabric or substance that is expanding. If you wind back the expansion, there was a beginning.
Something eternal had to create the universe. If the earliest thing is not eternal, then it is finite meaning that it came from nothing which is impossible.
There are heavens. Ours is not the only galaxy out there.
There are many worlds and ages. Not just ours.
We live in a fallen world.
All celestial objects tend to be spherical when they reach a certain size. Gravity sees to that. Odd shapes just break off at that size when they move.
There are more than two dimensions.
Up is not a universal direction in 3D.
When you are in a train travelling at 100mph, you can throw up a tennis ball into the air and catch it. Likewise, the earth can move and we can throw that same tennis ball in the air and catch it because the atmosphere moves with the earth just as the air is contained inside the train carriage.
Atheists are fools.
We will all die and after that the judgement because God is just.
Here is a lesson for gadam and Mike. Your no1 flat earth verse fits the globe.
Even taking your primitive view of things, this is what the globe looks like from so-called above in 3D.
Yes I know this is not a satellite image Mike. Lol.
Another successful debunk.
And many more debunks to come.
To all……Follow the space station for 24 hours as it continues to circle this planet. If I could I would station you on it for a week or so till you got this flat earth stupidity out of you head. We are a ball moving around in space just like the other planets in our solar system are locked into our orbit by the gravitational pulls from the sun and moon. “the powers of heaven “. is the power which shall be shaken, at the returns Jesus, soon to take place, our earth will then wobble through it’s orbit and produce giant waves , “men’s hearts failing them for that thing coming on the earth , “the seas a roaring”.
When this all starts to happen get away from any Coastal areas to a elevation of at least 300 feet above sea level, IMO, or you could loose your life, remember what Jesus said would happen just before his return .
Mike why waste our time on such things like a flat earth, come on man, your much to smart for that, let it go , And return to what you are good at, “our scriptures” , that’s what I want to hear you commit on. The hell with this COVID-19 and flat earth stuff, what’s that got to do with the “kingdom of God”, Proclaimer is going to keep humiliating you over and over about it, no point in even talking about it, you and we all will know the truth in the end anyway.
Proclaimer, are you trying to turn this site in to a word media site, the whole world is full of those kinds of sites brother. let’s get back to discussing the “kingdom of God” and his righteousness again.
peace and love to you all and yours………gene
To all……Follow the space station for 24 hours as it continues to circle this planet. If I could I would station you on it for a week or so till you got this flat earth stupidity out of you head.
Maybe we could start up a GoFundMe page for Mike.
“Help send Flat Earth Mike into space on Elon Musk rocket”.
Would be great. Left in 2D and returns in 3D.
Then he would probably stop this nonsense and apologize for trying to deceive people about the earth and what the scriptures say about it.
Proclaimer, are you trying to turn this site in to a word media site, the whole world is full of those kinds of sites brother. let’s get back to discussing the “kingdom of God” and his righteousness again.
All these subjects are related to the Kingdom of God or prophecy in some way.
Politics, which might seem unrelated, can eventually determine what parts of our faith is outlawed or heading that way. Further, it is about exposing evil laws that go against God and people. Our faith is not just about understanding scripture, but acting and voting / choosing in certain ways that can affect outcomes toward good outcomes. It exposes evil ideologies in the hope that they do not come to fruition. Like Socialism which is a godless political and philosophical system that causes the curse of poverty.
And Flat Earth is categorized as bad science, so how does that relate? It doesn’t except when people claim the idea comes from the Bible. As you can see, they have no verses that teach a flat earth. Just misunderstandings mixed with biased reasoning. Mike has been well and truly exposed and humiliated in this subject. So we witness first hand how pride rises up in defence even when it is wrong.
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