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Mike: Can you give us a valid and rational reason that governments would prohibit Ivermectin from people who want to use it?
Proclaimer: 1. False hope, meaning it to also be a waste of money;
2. It works, thus corrupt government wanting to funnel our taxes into their preferred suppliers / friends.Note: I am not arguing for the government. Don’t make that mistake. I am carefully weighing up the evidence and balancing science vs unfruitful conspiracy theories.
Okay… let’s examine #1 then. An entire Ivermectin treatment costs about the same as a specialty coffee from Starbucks. Do governments prohibit people from getting a morning cup of coffee because they know better how you should spend your $10 than you do? Of course not. So we can easily rule that one out.
As for false hope, there have already been millions of people cured from the ravages of Covid (within a couple of days) by taking Ivermectin… including our own Gene Balthrop and virtually the entire UP state of India. So it’s definitely not a false hope if it works… which leaves only your second option.
So knowing these things, why haven’t you already concluded that your second option is the correct one? Why would you imply that the first option is “science”, and the second one is “conspiracy theories”?
Can you offer a valid and rational reason for this stance (or why you’d even list #1 as an option at all, considering it is complete nonsense)?
Mike: So then it’s almost as if we could have kept the entire world open and operating at full capacity, while taking care to protect the most vulnerable among us? Like TRUTHFUL doctors and scientists were saying right from the start?
Proclaimer: Yes, that was always an option. Let the elderly die and a larger than desired number of younger people too in order to keep the economy going.
Let the elderly die? That’s not what I said at all. The proper plan was “taking care to PROTECT the MOST VULNERABLE among us“. That is a far cry from “Let the elderly die“, don’t you think? So why would you twist what I said, and word it as you did? Interesting. And while “the elderly” are clearly a part of “the most vulnerable”, younger people with comorbidities (asthma, morbid obesity, heart problems, diabetes, etc.) are also included.
Consider… http://www.health.com/condition/flu/how-many-people-die-of-the-flu-every-year
Last year, however, as the COVID-19 pandemic dominated the US, influenza cases were at an all-time low: Data from the CDC, supplied to JAMA, shows that out of 1.3 million specimens collected by labs between October 3, 2020 and July 24, 2021, only 2,136 were positive for influenza. Of those 2,136 influenza cases, there were only 748 flu-related deaths.
That’s a huge difference from the rates of the 2019–2020 flu season. Per the CDC, there were an estimated 35 million flu-related illnesses—that number includes 16 million medical visit for the flu; 380,000 flu-related hospitalizations; and 20,000 deaths due to influenza.
Do you see what happened there? Instead of the normal 35 million flu cases, last year there were only 2130. Impossible! All they did was falsely diagnose flu as Covid, because every Covid diagnosis paid the hospitals an extra $13,000 (double that if they put the person on an intubator). What rational person would believe that a seasonal illness that consistently affects tens of millions of people would only affect two thousand of them during “the year of Covid”? Only an idiot would believe such a thing… as if Covid cases wouldn’t ADD TO the flu numbers, but instead somehow eliminate them.
But the point is that every flu season, when tens of thousands of “the most vulnerable among us” die from complications associated with the flu, we don’t say that we just “let the elderly die”, do we? Nor do we shut down the world’s economy every year. We take care to protect the most vulnerable among us with sensible measures. If your kid comes home from school with the flu, you don’t take him to Grandma’s house for a visit. And Grandma isn’t out on Black Friday doing Christmas shopping packed into tight quarters with hundreds of flu-infected people.
These are common sense measures that we take every flu season to protect the most vulnerable among us. That’s exactly how we should have treated Covid 19, which is a coronavirus just like every other common cold. In fact, “coronavirus” is the scientific term for the “common cold”.
Proclaimer: Our country and Australia was even more strict because we have an elimination strategy. We could do that because of our isolation. While this worked, it only took Delta and a few people to break the rules. So it looks like Delta is going to win. But if we can get over 90% vaccinated, then we can learn to live with Delta and it will have a lesser effect on our population.
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see. Here you go again, parroting the lying MSM narrative – oblivious to the actual data.
1. Isolation did nothing, because you cannot hide from a virus/flu/cold. If it worked, you’d have ZERO cases. As soon as you had ONE single case, your isolation plan was ruined.
2. How do you even know there is such a thing as “the Delta variant”? You don’t. The “Delta variant” was likely invented to hide the undeniable FACT that the “vaccines” don’t stop anyone from getting, spreading, being hospitalized with, or dying from the original Covid. If you’re Big Pharma, and it only takes 2 weeks for people to be getting and dying from Covid after being jabbed, then your plan to jab everyone isn’t going to work very well, is it?
But… if you claim that the vax DOES work, and that these “breakthrough cases” are the result of a new variant that will require ANOTHER vax, then your plan not only continues on, but you get to sell another $100 billion worth of new vaccines!
But wait… there’s more! Now we have the “Muu variant” breaking through the second jab, and so we must get a third “booster” to protect us from that one? Where does it end in your mind, Proclaimer? What is your number? How many jabs will you personally get before you wake up to what’s going on?
Consider…
There is no difference. There is no evidence that the jab protects you in any way from the Delta variant as compared to the original. Okay? Now watch 30 seconds of the leaders of the world (not “conspiracy theorists”) telling you that your jab didn’t make a damn bit of difference in ability to get, spread, be hospitalized for, or die from Covid…
But hey, on the plus side, you are somehow now more protected from OTHER causes of death!
Do you believe that, Proclaimer? Will you shout your “vindication” from the rooftops now, because a member of the deep state – in an effort to salvage any shred of validity to their failed “vaccine” – has claimed that, somehow, some way, a Covid jab makes you impervious to OTHER things that would have killed you?
So now I ask you how getting NZ 90% vaccinated will help in any way, shape or form. The actual virus was only killing 0.01% of the people who got it anyway (all of them in the “most vulnerable” category). And by doing nothing at all, you would have already had natural herd immunity a year ago. And you know that vaxxed people are no different from unvaxxed as far as getting it, spreading it, becoming hospitalized with it, or dying from it.
So explain to me how this 90% vaccinated number is going to improve anything.
Btw, I notice you’re still blaming “a few people who broke the rules” for your current situation. Why? Didn’t you understand that UK.gov data from yesterday? Let me lay it out…
1. Your natural immune system fights off infections with a bunch of different systems put in place by God.
2. The vax prohibits those systems from working, because it is focused on one particular aspect of the virus, and shuts down your body’s other natural responses.
3. This is what can cause a virus to mutate into a different strain, say, “the Delta variant”, because it will produce variants that are immune to attacks to that one particular aspect that the vax goes after.
So basically, those who got vaxxed are the cause of the “Delta variant” – if there even is such a thing. Understand? Not the unvaxxed… but the vaxxed. You have no one to blame but yourself.
Proclaimer: Here’s a New Zealand advert about the vaccines
Do you think this is BS or scientific fact?It’s 100% BS that only blind sheep would believe. If you’d like, we can take it apart claim by claim. Let me know.
Just quickly though, dude starts by telling you the clinical trials won’t be finished until 2023. What does that tell you – as a thinking person? It should tell you that you ARE the clinical TRIAL! But I suspect that thought never crossed your mind.
Then he also tells you that adverse reactions usually occur within days of getting vaxxed. But I don’t suppose you know that the CDC and equivalents around the world have decided that they will only attribute adverse reactions and deaths to the vaccine if they occur more than 14 days after getting vaxxed. That has never been done with any vax before, and means that if you die within hours or days of being vaxxed (like tens of thousands already have), your death is not counted as having anything to do with the vax.
Does that sound honest to you?
Mike: Isaiah 40:22… He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
Proclaimer: When I asked you for the no1 flat earth verse in scripture, you used the one that mentions the circle of the earth. I guess I needed to explain to you that this verse fits the globe.
I guess I need to explain to you that this is a circle…
It is possible for God to spread out the heavens like a vault/canopy/tent over it, and sit enthrone above it. On the other hand, this is a ball…
There is no conceivable way for the heavens to be spread out like a vault/canopy/tent over it, or any way for God to sit enthroned above it, looking down at His people like grasshoppers – since there is no up, down, above or below in your sun-worshiping model.
Are you able to understand the difference between a circle and a ball? Isaiah did. In 40:22 he uses the word “chuwg” – which means circle. In 22:18, he uses the word “duwr” – which means ball.
Isaiah 22:18… He will roll you up tightly like a ball and throw you into a large country. There you will die and there your splendid chariots will remain—you disgrace to your master’s house!
So according to scripture, does God sit enthroned above a circle? Or a ball? (Lean not upon your own understanding…)
Proclaimer: It’s not outlandish. God is logical.
Of course God is logical. A Creator is the ONLY logical conclusion when you observe a finely tuned world full of complicated living things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose.
My point is that “SCIENCE” says that God/Creator is NOT logical. This is the same “SCIENCE” that you hold in higher esteem than the word of God when it comes to the shape of the earth, Noah’s flood, a literal 6 day creation, the sun being created 4 days AFTER the earth, Adam being the first literal human being, etc.
And I’m just pointing out that this very “SCIENCE” that you worship says that you are an idiot for believing in your magic sky daddy since it makes so much more sense that our world exploded from nothing, which then formed itself into everything.
Understand? And do you understand that when I use “SCIENCE” all capped and in quotes, I refer to SCIENTISM – or “science falsely so-called” – not to actual empirical science, which has never once shown the Bible to be false.
Proclaimer: But what if you were suppose to be the student and any discrepancy might actually be coming from your own understanding? Just something for you to consider.
Well, I understand that a circle is flat, while a ball is spherical. Which one did Isaiah say the earth was? I also understand that you can spread a tent over a flat circle – but not over a spherical ball…
What say you? Do you also understand these things?
Proclaimer: …some science and some scriptures are in conflict.
That is blatantly untrue. There is no science that conflicts with scripture. None whatsoever.
Proclaimer: Often what happens is better science comes along and shows the Bible to be true or you are holding to a wrong interpretation of the Bible.
Give an example. Let’s just stick with Isaiah 40:22 for now. God’s word says the earth is a circle. Circles are flat and can be covered by tents – while balls are spherical and cannot be covered by tents. It’s clear that you believe better science has come along and either shown the Bible to be untrue, or I am misinterpreting what Isaiah said. Since you also believe the Bible cannot be untrue, it leaves only the latter option, right? So explain to me how I’m misinterpreting what Isaiah said about the circle of the earth with a heaven tent over it.
Proclaimer: But not all science is wrong Mike. People who take that stance are paranoid.
My stance is that 100% of science is true – and aligns with the Bible. If you think you’ve come across some science that doesn’t align perfectly with the Bible, then you have come across Scientism – not science.
Proclaimer: I understand that getting Covid-19 will kill you, give you undesirable long term effects with some immunity, or just immunity.
Then you are misunderstanding the facts. Covid has a 0.1% chance of killing anyone under 75 years old. It has a 0.5% chance of killing anyone over 75. I am unaware of any long term effects. There is the loss of taste/smell, and even some Bell’s Palsy type symptoms, but they are short lived.
Proclaimer: I understand that the vaccinated have immunity too, but not as good as those who have overcome Covid-19 naturally.
The vaccine (falsely so-called) offers ZERO immunity from Covid. The majority of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths right now ARE the vaccinated. Does that sound like “immunity” to you?
Proclaimer: So what’s wrong with being vaccinated so that you lessen the chance of death and long covid, then when you catch Covid, you will fight it better, then be at the level of natural immunity?
Again, the majority of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths right now ARE the vaccinated. So if it doesn’t lessen your chance of getting, spreading, being hospitalized with, or dying from Covid, what good is it?
And, if it is already causing heart problems, blood clots, loss of limbs, Parkinson’s Disease, and hundreds of thousands of deaths in this short of a time, then why would you even risk it for a virus that it doesn’t protect you from, and that is already virtually harmless to 99.9% of the world?
Now add to that the fact that it ISN’T a “vaccine” – but an untested experimental gene-altering mRNA code that tells your body to make spike proteins that clog up your blood vessels (causing clots)… things your body would have never made on its own?
Proclaimer: Are you saying that a vaccinated person can NEVER have immunity like a non-vaccinated person?
I’m not saying it… the UK.gov study is saying it. And they’re not saying “NEVER” – but pointing out that the vax is prohibiting a big part of the body’s natural immune response now. There are good people who are right now working very hard with testing different things to see if there is a detox protocol that will remove these spiked antibodies the vaccine told your body to make. So never say never. There is always hope that vaxxed people can have this poison removed at some point.
Proclaimer: Not sure about these stats because I haven’t viewed them and doing so means I have to verify them too. This will take too long.
Um… I linked the UK.gov study, and showed a screenshot of a chart from page 23 of the study. That doesn’t leave you with a lot of leg work. 😂 (Hint: Click link, scroll to page 23, observe same chart I screenshot.)
Proclaimer: That said, when you have a large proportion of the population vaccinated, then of course Covid will be high with the vaccinated because they are greater in number and we already know that the vaccine doesn’t give you immunity.
If it doesn’t give you immunity, then why take it? Also, didn’t they tell you that it WOULD give you immunity at the beginning?
Proclaimer: What it gives you is a leg up, so when you catch Covid-19, you won’t die, or you will have way less chance of death.
But that’s just another claim they made at the beginning – after it became clear that it didn’t provide the immunity they promised. They had to change the story to say that you could still get Covid, but it won’t be a severe for you. How else were they going to unload those billions of vaccines and give the kickbacks to the government leaders? But now we know that’s just as untrue as the original immunity claim, because the majority of HOSPITALIZATIONS and DEATHS are now among the vaccinated – just as the majority of cases are.
Proclaimer: But you are saying that this will never happen to a vaccinated person right? I think you want this to be the case because it makes you feel better about your decision and stance.
Millions of us were able to see this as a scam to steal an election, make billions, and allow tyrannical control from the beginning. Millions of us were blind to this, and believed the virus was very deadly, and that our governments and Big Pharma were there to help us through it.
Unfortunately, while many among those latter millions have since awakened to what really happened and have joined us, there are still millions more who continue to keep their heads in the sand. You, Gene, and Adam are among the sandheads. Miia and I are trying to get you to cross over to the awakened group.
We’re doing this by showing you the data as it becomes available – not by trying to scold you for innocently believing people you thought you could trust. But the data we’re showing you should have awakened you by now. It’s frustrating that you guys refuse to wake up – no matter how much official raw data we show you. 😔
Proclaimer: The flu vaccine doesn’t give you 100% immunity against the flu. It just means that if you get the flu, it will be more like a mild cold because you have partial immunity already. And the reason why is because the flu virus constantly mutates. It looks like we will live with Covid in the same way.
Dude, they say that the flu shot they give you THIS year is for LAST year’s strain. How can anyone think it does anything against this year’s strain? Flu shots are worthless. Millions get them each year and credit them for not getting the flu. But they just didn’t get the flu. The shot had nothing to do with it. But millions of people are keeling over dead from flu shots, so if you want to give Big Pharma your money for nothing, have at it.
Proclaimer: However, Covid-19 is way more contagious and probably more dangerous. But maybe and hopefully it will mutate to less deadly strains in time like the Spanish Flu.
How do you know it’s more contagious – or dangerous? Do you have large homeless communities in NZ? We have them in big cities in America. Yet they are all still right there – with just as many people as when Covid started. They don’t wash regularly, they live in very close quarters, and they are usually drug addicts with lowered immune systems who share pipes/needles. Why haven’t they been hauling off millions of them in body bags for the last year and a half?
And I already showed you what the “Spanish Flu” was. It wasn’t a natural flu at all, but an intentional injection of bacteria into US military men – who then spread it in Europe.
When will you finally wake up? When will you finally stop trusting and parroting the BS of these liars who consider you a useless eater?
Mike…..I have never taken the drug “ivermectin”, which is used to kill parasites in animals. It can completely destroy your liver. You should not tell people to take it, for COVID-19 brother.
I do agree with you on the miscounting of the deaths from COVID-19, though., you are right about the annual death from the regular flew, I believe, and perhaps a lot of them died from other complications they had before they contracted COVID-19 but I believe that it’s also true with the regular flu also. But anyway you figure it Covid-19 is a separate strand of the flu and the vaccines do help our system to fight it off, especially , if your aged , or have a compromised immune system.
The dIfference between an allergy shot and a flu shot is this, the allergy shot overwhelms the immune system, and then the immune system excepts that compound into your system , without reacting to it anymore and stops all the reactions to that type of compound in your system, while a flu shot gives you just a little of the flu compound , and then your immune system over comes that compound and retains a memory that recognizes it and the way to kill it and take it out of your system, for a limited amount time, perhaps 6 months to a year or so.
I would strongly recommend you and all others take the COVID-19 shots brother. But even if you do that is no guarantee you still won’t come down with it, my cousin who is 90 years and his wife both have taken the shots and have both come down with it, both are very old and do have compromised immune systems, he has had a blood cancer for about ten years now, and his immune system, is very weak, has liver problem as a result of the medication he has been taking for about ten year. So there is no guarantees, but the shots have proven to help people by the millions fight the disease. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Mike……..gene
Proclaimer: But the thing you should be learning from this is that Covid-19 kills and harms people.
You are so woefully uniformed that it is scary. Of course, you are exactly the type of people the deep state counts on… blind trusting sheep.
1. They tried a drug called Remdesivir for AIDS, and found that it killed 50% of the patients.
2. They are explicitly using Remdesivir to treat Covid.
3. Remdesivir causes kidney failure, which causes your lungs to fill up with water.
4. Then they sedate you and shove the intubator tube down your throat.
5. Only 1% of intubated patients ever survive. It’s basically a death sentence.
If you go to the hospital in the US today with signs of Covid/flu, the standard protocol is to send you back home with NO treatment, telling you to come back if things get really bad. When you come back on your last breath, they give you Remdesivir – which makes you even worse. They they intubate you until you die, and collect their $39k for your intubated Covid death.
They are literally and purposely murdering thousands of people.
Adam: I agree with Mike on these arguments. We can not simply compare these ancient texts as applicable to our scientific world today… There are many texts that reflect the Flat earth in our Bible. This is the truth.
We agree that the Bible teaches a flat and stationary earth with a firmament over it in which the sun, moon, and stars run their God-appointed circuits from one end of the heaven to the other.
We certainly don’t agree that “modern science” has shed new light on these ancient concepts, and showed them to be wrong. There is zero actual scientific evidence that the world described in the Bible isn’t the world in which we live today.
But thanks for helping Proclaimer to see that the Bible most certainly teaches a flat earth. Now we just have to decide whether we believe the Bible – or pick and choose which parts of it are true, and which are false.
Mike, I said this before. You have no natural talent for science. But it is surprising that you don’t see that.
I would stick to what God has called you for. After all, it is what we do in God’s will that counts.
It is there that you will excel because it will be something in God’s strength.
Our weaknesses are made strong.
Perhaps you have done things in the past in his strength and unfortunately came under the delusion that you could do the same in science?
Adam: Ivermectin is one of the trial treatment for COVID like HCQ. Yes our Governments need not ban such medicines even though there is no guaranty of these medicines for the treatment of COVID so far.
There are hundreds of thousands of real world cases that say these medicines do work against Covid – including Gene’s own testimony. And I agree that governments should not ban them. So now that we’ve gotten that out of the way, here is the question I actually asked you once again…
Can you give us a valid and rational reason that governments would prohibit Ivermectin from people who want to use it?
Understand? We both agree that they shouldn’t do that. But the fact is that many of them DO do it. I’m asking if you can offer any valid or rational reason that they WOULD do it. Can you think of any?
Adam: I also don’t think COVID Vaccine is the mark of the beast as being preached here.
Miia started the thread as a question – not a sermon. Nobody here is “preaching” that the vax is the mark, and so far, only Miia believes that it very well could be. I don’t think so, because the receiving of the mark always goes hand in hand with worshiping the beast in Revelation. And I personally think we can’t be “tricked” into an act of worship that we don’t even know we’re doing. I think the mark will involve a literal entity who has placed himself above God in the temple, and has uttered great blasphemies against God. We will then be given a choice to either bow to that entity and forsake God in order to get a mark allowing us to work and buy food – or refuse to bow and be prohibited from working and buying necessities for yourself and your family.
Mike, the vaccine doesn’t give 100% immunity.
Bullet proof vests don’t stop 100% of bullets.
Parachutes don’t work 100% of the time either.
So why would we take the vaccine?
If you cannot answer that, then could I suggest that you find out what God wants you to do?
Because it is not science.
Miia started the thread as a question – not a sermon. Nobody here is “preaching” that the vax is the mark, and so far, only Miia believes that it very well could be. I don’t think so, because the receiving of the mark always goes hand in hand with worshiping the beast in Revelation.
gadam is not that honest IMO. His biases make him exaggerate.
I do agree with you on the miscounting of the deaths from COVID-19, though., you are right about the annual death from the regular flew, I believe, and perhaps a lot of them died from other complications they had before they contracted COVID-19
Wow gene. You can be rational sometimes.
Adam: This is consistent with the Hebrew cosmology previously described, but it is ludicrous in the light of modern astronomy. If one star let alone all the stars in the sky “fell” on the earth, no one would be hollering from any mountain or crag.
That is hilarious! Thank you for that wealth of Biblical information. I see from Proclaimer’s subsequent posts that he didn’t even bother to read it. Maybe others will.
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