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Proclaimer: …if you have caught Covid and have no ongoing side effects, then you are more protected than the vaccinated.
This is undeniably true and backed by many data.
Proclaimer: …you can make the same argument for the vaccine, but the latter has less issues than the virus itself.
This is undeniably false, as the complete opposite of what you’ve claimed is backed by many data worldwide. In fact, according to a new UK Government study, they’ve discovered that people who have been double vaxxed are getting Covid at much higher rates, and that the vaxxes mess up their bodies’ own immune response to the infection.
From page 23… “N antibody levels appear to be lower in people who acquire infection following two doses of vaccination.”
From a commentator… What the British are saying is they are now finding the vaccine interferes with your body’s innate ability after infection to produce antibodies against not just the spike protein but other pieces of the virus. Specifically, vaccinated people don’t seem to be producing antibodies to the nucleocapsid protein, the shell of the virus, which are a crucial part of the response in unvaccinated people.
This means vaccinated people will be far more vulnerable to mutations in the spike protein EVEN AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN INFECTED AND RECOVERED ONCE.
Of course truth-telling doctors and scientists (the ones who have to spread the word on obscure platforms because they are not on Big Pharma’s payroll and are therefore banned from Twitter, Google, Facebook and YouTube) have been showing people like me and Miia this stuff for quite a while already.
But for those who live and die by the MSM, here’s the chart from the same UK.gov release that shows the cases in vaxxed versus unvaxxed right now…
There are more than twice as many double vaxxed people with Covid in the UK right now than unvaxxed. And the CDC director just said that the US is likely to change the meaning of “protected” in the near future, as studies show that the 90% protection the vax supposedly offers dwindles to only 3% in 6 months. So going forward, you will only be “officially safe” after a booster. (Remember that’s also what Israel said – and now they’re on their second booster [fourth jab].)
What will be your number, Proclaimer? Gene? Adam? Will you get your third shot? Your fourth? Your fifth? At what point will you say enough is enough? Just curious.
Miia: I am on a few FB groups, NZ based. One thing i have noticed in the un-vaccinated: People who had lost their paths spiritually are, because of what they are going through asking others if they are suddenly thinking about God, and desiring to seek his care, and it is remarkable how many are.
Hope is born of suffering. And God is our only true hope.
I understand that getting Covid-19 will kill you, give you undesirable long term effects with some immunity, or just immunity.
I understand that the vaccinated have immunity too, but not as good as those who have overcome Covid-19 naturally.
So what’s wrong with being vaccinated so that you lessen the chance of death and long covid, then when you catch Covid, you will fight it better, then be at the level of natural immunity?
Are you saying that a vaccinated person can NEVER have immunity like a non-vaccinated person?
Miia: For those who have not had the vax, get ready. You will lose your job if you haven’t already and they plan to take your social security payments, etc.
It’ll never happen on a mass scale. They were trying to see how far they could push us, and they are now finding out. Southwest Airlines tried the mandatory vax crap, and so many of their employees walked off (leaving hundreds of cancelled flights and people stranded at airports) that they have now rescinded their mandate. The other companies will fall in line too, once they realize that WE THE PEOPLE are 330 million strong, and we’re done being pushed around.
As terrible as things seem right now, this is the catalyst of the Great Awakening, Miia. Biden talked about a mandate, but there is no law. There are right now 26 Governors and State Attorney Generals who are primed and ready to fight this mandate for their states… but there is nothing to fight. Biden just said some words – hoping that people would be scared and that there were enough blind sheep who would walk themselves to the slaughterhouse. Way too many did, unfortunately… but not nearly enough for what they wanted to do.
Bottom line is that there is no vax-to-work mandate for private companies in America. It simply doesn’t exist. Federal employees and military are currently facing an upcoming deadline, but there are already dozens of lawsuits pending on the constitutionality of forcing experimental medicine on people against their will – or coercing them to take it by dangling their livelihoods over their heads. Hint: It is not only unconstitutional… it’s against the Nuremberg Code.
There are more than twice as many double vaxxed people with Covid in the UK right now than unvaxxed.
Not sure about these stats because I haven’t viewed them and doing so means I have to verify them too. This will take too long.
That said, when you have a large proportion of the population vaccinated, then of course Covid will be high with the vaccinated because they are greater in number and we already know that the vaccine doesn’t give you immunity. What it gives you is a leg up, so when you catch Covid-19, you won’t die, or you will have way less chance of death. Then once you get Covid as a vaccinated person, you should have a good chance of overcoming it without serious side effects. At this stage you would then be like the unvaccinated person who got Covid and didn’t have any bad side effects.
But you are saying that this will never happen to a vaccinated person right? I think you want this to be the case because it makes you feel better about your decision and stance.
The flu vaccine doesn’t give you 100% immunity against the flu. It just means that if you get the flu, it will be more like a mild cold because you have partial immunity already. And the reason why is because the flu virus constantly mutates. It looks like we will live with Covid in the same way.
However, Covid-19 is way more contagious and probably more dangerous. But maybe and hopefully it will mutate to less deadly strains in time like the Spanish Flu.
Miia: Prophecy Club 2013.
I was so sad to hear of Rob Skiba’s passing. His family tried everything they could to get his doctors to give him Ivermectin, but as is the case with most hospitals today, they refused. Because of this, instead of walking out the next day, he ended up on a respirator, which is basically a death sentence.
He was such a fantastic teacher of scripture and Biblical earth.
I seriously FELT his loss in my gut for two days after I heard the news. He will be missed, but I suspect he will be one of those judged favorably to everlasting life in due time.
I was so sad to hear of Rob Skiba’s passing. His family tried everything they could to get his doctors to give him Ivermectin, but as is the case with most hospitals today, they refused. Because of this, instead of walking out the next day, he ended up on a respirator, which is basically a death sentence.
I didn’t realise he passed away and it is sad that he never got that drug if he wanted it, even if it doesn’t help.
But the thing you should be learning from this is that Covid-19 kills and harms people.
Was he unvaccinated? Was he an anti-vaxxer?
He could still be teaching flat earth if he had the vaccine.
I guess one of his beliefs ultimately stopped him from teaching his other belief.
I also cannot help but think if he saw the curve of the earth as he ascended.
Now, go apply what you’ve learned here to your own comments to me about the Biblical earth.
Yes most of the Biblical narrations about the heaven and earth are the ancient understanding of the universe which are non-scientific as per our day. I agree with Mike on these arguments. We can not simply compare these ancient texts as applicable to our scientific world today. A fundamentalist will always defend these texts and compare them to the scientific understanding of our day. The primeval man and the ancient writers were not aware of many things in this universe that science has invented so far in our day. There are many texts that reflect the Flat earth in our Bible. This is the truth.
Here’s the question I actually asked you, Gene, and Proclaimer…
Can you give us a valid and rational reason that governments would prohibit Ivermectin from people who want to use it?
It is fact that many governments completely forbid it, and many others make it impossible to get it if you’re going to use it for COVID treatment. I await a valid and rational reason for these government policies from you, Gene, and Proclaimer. Here, I’ll start you guys off again…
Hi Mike, thanks for your reply to my post on Vaccination. Sorry, I asked you not be afraid of needle on a lighter way. I know you are not a kid or ignorant of medical inventions of our day.
Ivermectin is one of the trial treatment for COVID like HCQ. Yes our Governments need not ban such medicines even though there is no guaranty of these medicines for the treatment of COVID so far.
I also don’t think COVID Vaccine is the mark of the beast as being preached here.
I also don’t think COVID Vaccine is the mark of the beast as being preached here.
By one single person. Lol.
There are many texts that reflect the Flat earth in our Bible.
What is your no1 verse to support your statement?
I’m waiting.
What is your no1 verse to support your statement?
I’m waiting.
No 1 can be anything like this verse in Isaiah 11:12
He will raise a signal for the nations,
and will assemble the outcasts of Israel,
and gather the dispersed of Judah
from the four corners of the earth.And Rev 7:1
After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind could blow on earth or sea or against any tree.
Here are a few obvious non-scientific texts in the Bible:
1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”
Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm …”
Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable …”
Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”
Isaiah 45:18: “…who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast…”Suffice to say that the earth envisioned by flat-earthers is as immovable as any geocentrist could desire. Most (perhaps all) scriptures commonly cited by geocentrists have also been cited by flat-earthers. The flat-earth view is geocentricity with further restrictions.
The Order of Creation
The Genesis creation story provides the first key to the Hebrew cosmology. The order of creation makes no sense from a conventional perspective but is perfectly logical from a flat-earth viewpoint. The earth was created on the first day, and it was “without form and void (Genesis 1:2).” On the second day, a vault the “firmament” of the King James version was created to divide the waters, some being above and some below the vault. Only on the fourth day were the sun, moon, and stars created, and they were placed “in” (not “above”) the vault.
The Vault of Heaven
The vault of heaven is a crucial concept. The word “firmament” appears in the King James version of the Old Testament 17 times, and in each case it is translated from the Hebrew word raqiya, which meant the visible vault of the sky. The word raqiya comes from riqqua, meaning “beaten out.” In ancient times, brass objects were either cast in the form required or beaten into shape on an anvil. A good craftsman could beat a lump of cast brass into a thin bowl. Thus, Elihu asks Job, “Can you beat out [raqa] the vault of the skies, as he does, hard as a mirror of cast metal (Job 37:18)?”
Elihu’s question shows that the Hebrews considered the vault of heaven a solid, physical object. Such a large dome would be a tremendous feat of engineering. The Hebrews (and supposedly Yahweh Himself) considered it exactly that, and this point is hammered home by five scriptures:
Job 9:8, “…who by himself spread out the heavens [shamayim]…”
Psalm 19:1, “The heavens [shamayim] tell out the glory of God, the vault of heaven [raqiya] reveals his handiwork.”
Psalm 102:25, “…the heavens [shamayim] were thy handiwork.”
Isaiah 45:12, “I, with my own hands, stretched out the heavens [shamayim] and caused all their host to shine…”
Isaiah 48:13, “…with my right hand I formed the expanse of the sky [shamayim]…”If these verses are about a mere illusion of a vault, they are surely much ado about nothing. Shamayim comes from shameh, a root meaning to be lofty. It literally means the sky. Other passages complete the picture of the sky as a lofty, physical dome. God “sits throned on the vaulted roof of earth [chuwg], whose inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the skies [shamayim] like a curtain, he spreads them out like a tent to live in…[Isaiah 40:22].” Chuwg literally means “circle” or “encompassed.” By extension, it can mean roundness, as in a rounded dome or vault. Job 22:14 says God “walks to and fro on the vault of heaven [chuwg].” In both verses, the use of chuwg implies a physical object, on which one can sit and walk. Likewise, the context in both cases requires elevation. In Isaiah, the elevation causes the people below to look small as grasshoppers. In Job, God’s eyes must penetrate the clouds to view the doings of humans below. Elevation is also implied by Job 22:12: “Surely God is at the zenith of the heavens [shamayim] and looks down on all the stars, high as they are.”
This picture of the cosmos is reinforced by Ezekiel’s vision. The Hebrew word raqiya appears five times in Ezekiel, four times in Ezekiel 1:22-26 and once in Ezekiel 10:1. In each case the context requires a literal vault or dome. The vault appears above the “living creatures” and glitters “like a sheet of ice.” Above the vault is a throne of sapphire (or lapis lazuli). Seated on the throne is “a form in human likeness,” which is radiant and “like the appearance of the glory of the Lord.” In short, Ezekiel saw a vision of God sitting throned on the vault of heaven, as described in Isaiah 40:22.
The Shape of the Earth
Disregarding the dome, the essential flatness of the earth’s surface is required by verses like Daniel 4:10-11. In Daniel, the king “saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth…reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth’s farthest bounds.” If the earth were flat, a sufficiently tall tree would be visible to “the earth’s farthest bounds,” but this is impossible on a spherical earth. Likewise, in describing the temptation of Jesus by Satan, Matthew 4:8 says, “Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world [cosmos] in their glory.” Obviously, this would be possible only if the earth were flat. The same is true of Revelation 1:7: “Behold, he is coming with the clouds! Every eye shall see him…”
The Celestial Bodies
The Hebrews considered the celestial bodies relatively small. The Genesis creation story indicates the size and importance of the earth relative to the celestial bodies in two ways, first by their order of creation, and second by their positional relationships. They had to be small to fit inside the vault of heaven. Small size is also implied by Joshua 10:12, which says that the sun stood still “in Gibeon” and the moon “in the Valley of Ajalon”
Further, the Bible frequently presents celestial bodies as exotic living beings. For example, “In them [the heavens], a tent is fixed for the sun, who comes out like a bridegroom from his wedding canopy, rejoicing like a strong man to run his race. His rising is at one end of the heavens, his circuit touches their farthest ends; and nothing is hidden from his heat (Psalm 19:4-6).” The stars are anthropomorphic demigods. When the earth’s cornerstone was laid “the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted aloud (Job 38:7).” The morning star is censured for trying to set his throne above that of other stars:
You thought in your own mind, I will scale the heavens; I will set my throne high above the stars of God, I will sit on the mountain where the gods meet in the far recesses of the north. I will rise high above the cloud-banks and make myself like the most high (Isaiah 14:13-14).
Deuteronomy 4:15-19 recognizes the god-like status of stars, noting that they were created for other peoples to worship.Stars can fall from the skies according to Daniel 8:10 and Matthew 24:29. The same idea is found in the following extracts from Revelation 6:13-16:
…the stars in the sky fell to the earth, like figs shaken down by a gale; the sky vanished, as a scroll is rolled up…they called out to the mountains and the crags, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One who sits on the throne…”
This is consistent with the Hebrew cosmology previously described, but it is ludicrous in the light of modern astronomy. If one star let alone all the stars in the sky “fell” on the earth, no one would be hollering from any mountain or crag. The writer considered the stars small objects, all of which could fall to the earth without eradicating human life. He also viewed the sky as a physical object. The stars are inside the sky, and they fall before the sky opens. When it is whisked away, it reveals the One throned above (see Isaiah 40:22).Like the above, there are hundreds of texts which reflect the non-scientific understanding of the universe by the Biblical writers.
Your number 1 verse is a fail.
The flat earth model is not a square or rectangle. It is a circular or oval disk with no corners.
The four corners are the 4 corners of the compass or 4 quadrants of the earth. North South East West.
Here is what Wikipedia says on the subject.
Several cosmological and mythological systems portray four corners of the world or four quarters of the world corresponding approximately to the four points of the compass (or the two solstices and two equinoxes). At the center may lie a sacred mountain, garden, world tree, or other beginning-point of creation. Often four rivers run to the four corners of the world, and water or irrigate the four quadrants of Earth.
Tibetan conception of four rivers dividing the world into quadrants
In Christianity and Judaism, the Old Testament (Book of Genesis, Genesis 2:8–14) identifies the Garden of Eden, and the four rivers as the Tigris, Euphrates, Pishon, and Gihon. The Tigris runs to Assyria, the Euphrates to Armenia, the Pishon to Havilah or Elam, and the Gihon to Ethiopia. The four corners of the earth are also spoken of in the book of Revelation 7:1.In Mesopotamian cosmology, four rivers flowing out of the garden of creation, which is the center of the world, define the four corners of the world. From the point of view of the Akkadians, the northern geographical horizon was marked by Subartu, the west by Mar.tu, the east by Elam and the south by Sumer; later rulers of all of Mesopotamia, such as Cyrus, claimed among their titles LUGAL kib-ra-a-ti er-bé-et-tì, “King of the Four Corners”.
In Hinduism, the sacred mountain Kailash has four sides, from which four rivers flow to the four quarters of the world (the Ganges, Indus, Oxus (Amu Darya), and Śita (Tarim)), dividing the world into four quadrants. Another account portrays a celestial mountain, Mount Meru, buttressed by four terrestrial mountain ranges which extend in four directions. Between them lie four sacred lakes, through which the celestial river divides into four earthly rivers, which flow to the four corners and irrigate the four quadrants of the Earth. Buddhism and the Bon religion of Tibet have similar accounts.
Europeans in the 16th century divided the world into four continents: Africa, America, Asia and Europe. Each of the four continents was seen to represent its quadrant of the world—Europe in the north, Asia in the east, Africa in the south, and America in the west.
What is your new no1 verse since your old no1 verse has nothing to do with a flat earth?
I’m waiting.
Several cosmological and mythological systems portray four corners of the world or four quarters of the world corresponding approximately to the four points of the compass (or the two solstices and two equinoxes). At the center may lie a sacred mountain, garden, world tree, or other beginning-point of creation. Often four rivers run to the four corners of the world, and water or irrigate the four quadrants of Earth.
So the religious texts like those of Bible are mythological and non-scientific in truth?
I am not for any Flat Earth but for the scientific universe. I only find the religious books are filled with ancient man’s myths which includes the Biblical books.
Put a compass in your hand. Draw out the quadrants. Not hard is it.
I’m still waiting for the newbo1 flat earth verse in the bible.
???
Hope you have read my previous post. There ends the matter on these mythological and non-scientific texts.
Mike……You have hitched your wagon to a bunch of fruit cakes, we not only know that the world is indeed round, but we also know the speed it spins at, and the Speed it travels around the Sun at. The international space station is circulating around this earth 24/7, taking pictures and proves beyond a doubt, the earth is round like all the other planets out there. There is so much proof we have, it’s almost laughable, that a man with your intelligence, would even consider the “Flat Earth” theory. How can you reject all the modern scientific proofs that is available to everyone on this planet?
It may be just a matter of pride, causing you to hang on to it, or your just prone to “conspiracy theories “. Conspiracy theorist, cause people to reject common sense, I don’t know of any of them that has been “PROVEN” true yet. These theories come about by a spirit of anti-trust, working in the minds of those who produce them. IMOPeace and love to you and your Mike……..gene
Proclaimer: I guess the surprise came from how easily deceived you were. That comes from relying on your own understanding I suppose.
Proverbs 3:5-6… Trust in Jehovah with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.
What does Jehovah say about the matter?
Genesis 1… 6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
So by the time the earth was 48 hours old, God had created a firmament (hard as bronze, crystalline in its form) to separate the waters above from the waters below. I understand this as a canopy, or tent that is set up over the circle of the earth. (Is 40:22) How do you understand it?
Genesis 1… 14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
By the time the earth was 96 hours old, God had created lights and placed them in the firmament of heaven. I understand this to mean that God placed lights (sun, moon and stars) in the hard-as-bronze crystalline firmament that covers the circle of the earth. How do you understand it?
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