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Joh 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Well, Christians certainly believe that. Here Jesus says that apart from him, we can do nothing. Interesting in that he also supposedly said:
Joh 5:19 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.
So it seems Jesus can do nothing of himself, and then says apart from him, we can do nothing. If he can do nothing how can he help us do anything?
Skip the middleman, go straight to G-d!
But wait, Jesus is confused once more.
Mat 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool {'moros'}!' will be liable to the hell of fire.
Yet later in the same gospel Jesus says:
Mat 23:17 You blind fools {'moros'}! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred?
Huh? Did Jesus just condemn himself to hell?
Hi tow,
You do not understand the Lordship and inspiration of Jesus.
He speaks for God and his warnings to men are better than them facing judgement.
The law was fulfilled in him and so now impossible perfection is now the only way for men to fulfill the Law.
Now there are no sin\forgiveness loopholes for jews or gentiles as God has appointed Jesus as the only way to God.
The noose has tightened.Indeed he was utterly reliant on the guiding and empowering Spirit of God in his work.
Now he is at the right hand of God he has shared that Spirit with us in his vine so that as the branches we are dependant on the Spirit of Christ from God.Hi tow,
You name this threadCONFUSED
THE LOGIC OF JESUSDo you try to test the words of Jesus by greek logic?
That is not surprising as it is the language of bored philosphers.
Logic does not match the wisdom of God and what is written is the wisdom of God.The wisdom of your god is contradiction and confusion? Yikes, I don't want that wisdom.
I provide the GT verses, you ignore them and twist. You're becoming too predictable.
Hi tow,
Immerse yourself in the vanity of human wisdom then.
You will find us strange.
But hey there are plenty more like you out thereYes I do find you strange. You ignore what the Tanakh says of the true King Messiah and yet say you believe in total infallibility of your OT. That does not reconcile.
Hi Tow,
Of course if you do not have the whole map including the NT and the light of the Spirit
you will not fully see and understand the way.The map of the Tanakh leads in one direction, but there seems to be no place where the map of the GT picks up. Two different maps leading in opposite directions.
Hi tow,
The line of faith stretches from Abraham to now.
The lines of religion, phariseeism and legalism are useless dead ends.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 03 2008,19:53) Hi tow,
The line of faith stretches from Abraham to now.
The lines of religion, phariseeism and legalism are useless dead ends.
Then show the line Nick.
You can't. You just repeat the same old boring philosophy over and over.Yes, but faith in fiction is wasted faith. I do not have faith that dental floss will be an adequate rope to tow a car with, neither do I have faith in a false messiah who does not match messianic passages from Tanakh.
Because Christianity claims that YHVH fathered Jesus. Lave YHVH out of the adulterous relationship and I will leave you alone.
When the morning stars joyfully cried out together,
And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?–Job 38:7Who can resemble Jehovah among the sons of God?–Ps 89:6
Quote Because Christianity claims that YHVH fathered Jesus.
The Greek scripturs claim that Jesus was a son of God, more than that, the only begotten son of God, and the Hebrew scriptures uses the phrase “sons of God” a couple times.Is that adulterous too?
Quote (david @ Jan. 03 2008,21:10) When the morning stars joyfully cried out together,
And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?–Job 38:7Who can resemble Jehovah among the sons of God?–Ps 89:6
Quote Because Christianity claims that YHVH fathered Jesus.
The Greek scripturs claim that Jesus was a son of God, more than that, the only begotten son of God, and the Hebrew scriptures uses the phrase “sons of God” a couple times.Is that adulterous too?
Yes. Mary was to be betrothed to Joseph. If she had a baby by anyone else, it was adultery.However, the Hebrew scriptures refute your GT:
Exo 4:22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, 'Thus says the LORD, Israel is my firstborn son
Quote Joh 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Well, Christians certainly believe that. Here Jesus says that apart from him, we can do nothing. Interesting in that he also supposedly said:
Joh 5:19 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.
You have very appropriately labelled this thread: “CONFUSED.” You were just a little confused as to who it was about.
JOHN 15:1-5
““I am the true vine, and my Father is the cultivator. Every branch in me not bearing fruit he takes away, and every one bearing fruit he cleans, that it may bear more fruit. YOU are already clean because of the word that I have spoken to YOU. Remain in union with me, and I in union with YOU. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it remains in the vine, in the same way neither can YOU, unless YOU remain in union with me. I am the vine, YOU are the branches. He that remains in union with me, and I in union with him, this one bears much fruit; because apart from me YOU can do [or, “produce”] nothing at all.”Jesus was saying that as the true vine, (and his Father the cultivator) and that from apart from him, you can't produce any real fruit.
JOHN 5:19
“Therefore, in answer, Jesus went on to say to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner.”The first verse is talking about people not really being able to do anything fruitfull or produce anything worthwhile without taking Christ into consideration.
The second verse is talking about the Son always wanting to please the father and obeying him, not doing anything of “his” will, but rather his Father's will.These thoughts aren't really connected in any way. You're really stretching here.
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