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Quote (georg @ Nov. 02 2009,17:04) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 27 2009,14:40) Hi Nick,
I would say that He had to be taught, not re-taught. Wouldn't you say that a renewed mind is one that had to be re-taught? Jesus was taught properly about God right from His infancy as a man as far as I can see…no need to be re-taught/renewed.LU
Hi Kathi! If Christ did not know where He came fom then how could He say this in
John 17:5 “And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory I had with you before the world was.”
Also IMO He knew what was at stake if He would have sinned.
If all have fallen short of the glory of God, did that include Him? IMO No.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,
Good question.
Either He was taught about His life prior to His birth in the flesh by His Father, or the Father began restoring His memory…or both.Love,
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ Nov. 03 2009,10:01) Quote (georg @ Nov. 02 2009,17:04) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 27 2009,14:40) Hi Nick,
I would say that He had to be taught, not re-taught. Wouldn't you say that a renewed mind is one that had to be re-taught? Jesus was taught properly about God right from His infancy as a man as far as I can see…no need to be re-taught/renewed.LU
Hi Kathi! If Christ did not know where He came fom then how could He say this in
John 17:5 “And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory I had with you before the world was.”
Also IMO He knew what was at stake if He would have sinned.
If all have fallen short of the glory of God, did that include Him? IMO No.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,
Good question.
Either He was taught about His life prior to His birth in the flesh by His Father, or the Father began restoring His memory…or both.Love,
Kathi
Kathi! You right, either way. If Jesus was able to go and preach at age 12, He had to know at least at that time.IMO There really is no Scripture that tells us 100% when He knew. And is it really all that important that we do know?
Love Irenehi georg
Lk 2:47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.
Lk 2:48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.”
Lk 2:49 “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”this is Jesus at 12 years old is talking to is Mother Mary,it shows he knew then who he was.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2010,04:09) For KW
Thank you,I started a new thread for a new take on the subject of conception. I felt looking at it from the Greek language was significantly different that it deserved its own thread.
Quote (peace2all @ Jan. 12 2010,05:37) the unity is complex
Not really!On in unified in the Spirit of Righteousness. What is complex about that?
John 14:6-14(NIV) reads:
Quote Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
Jesus answered: “Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
In other words you see God though Jesus' words and actions and you see Jesus though the words and actions of those who believe in him as he does his works through them.
Those who are truly Christians and so walk according to the ways of the Spirit are Jesus' proxies on earth.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 12 2010,16:27) Quote (peace2all @ Jan. 12 2010,05:37) the unity is complex
Not really!On in unified in the Spirit of Righteousness. What is complex about that?
John 14:6-14(NIV) reads:
Quote Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
Jesus answered: “Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
In other words you see God though Jesus' words and actions and you see Jesus though the words and actions of those who believe in him as he does his works through them.
Those who are truly Christians and so walk according to the ways of the Spirit are Jesus' proxies on earth.
ok whatever you say its so easy and nothing complex about anything.funny thing is though, when jesus was alive and was there to be that word and works of god, they too were very confused.
even with having him right there to talk to to.
jesus would have to say things many many times and even dumb it down a bit with illistrations and still have people not fully grasping it. even his apostles.
but of course its easy that must be why the apostles worshiped him as their GOD right on many occasions yet never being corrected .
the pharesees wanting to kill him for continueing to say to them that he was from god, his nature and word and will and spirit. thus giving himself status with god.
your right everything is not complex at all in the unity of them and how one fits and fills each role.
you can continue to think that they are just like man in relation to seperatism but it is not so as by how jesus spoke of himself and his father.
their unity far surpasses our own and our own understanding obviously.
hi P2a
No, it is not because he call himself the son of God that the pharisees where after him ,it was because there big EGO that Jesus openly tells everyone how they are hypocrites and don't follow the law themselves but add some laws for the people to bear but they won't apply it to them.
that why he has to be killed because he could turn the people away from them and they could loose the eminence and first place and father status ,they were more concerned with themselves than anything else, EGO to murder.Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2010,09:48) hi P2a
No, it is not because he call himself the son of God that the pharisees where after him ,it was because there big EGO that Jesus openly tells everyone how they are hypocrites and don't follow the law themselves but add some laws for the people to bear but they won't apply it to them.
that why he has to be killed because he could turn the people away from them and they could loose the eminence and first place and father status ,they were more concerned with themselves than anything else, EGO to murder.
i just don't think that is true. they could have said or done anything if they wanted him dead.they did not want him dead for his remarks of them or the things he had done but the repeated responce that he and hte fahter are one and are in each other and claims of divinity but being a man.
john 10 clearly shows jesus feeding that fire that they had in regards to that sensitive speach of his and he didn't try to fix that.
he continued to say thathtey are is sheep and he knows his sheep.. but how can he know this if he had just come and started to preach god's own words and miracles.
he knew because he was in unity with god due to the fact that only for our perspective is he the son of god but he is god's way of bringing his word and commands into flesh for mankind instead of wriiten stone.
he is not some spirit son god bore.
he states that he can lay down his life on his own and can bring it back again. then he says that they cannot be plucked from his hand as also with god and that god is so much better than all,
that he asn the father are on, they are in each other. etc. etc.
apostles call him GOD and he acknowledgers that they do see him for who he is.
so much more to list also…. there is a cxomplex unity in god and no one can deny it.
jesus was god's spirit brought forth into flesh and given his words and works.
he was part of god as his way to communicate to us.
he has done this before to certain people.
abram – appears to him and he sees god
abraham – same thing
moses and others – apears to themburning bush
joseph in a dreametc. etc. – god can be in two places at once. god the unseen invisible almighty was not, but his means of communication via vessels with his spirit and words have.
this does not make jesus another GOD and to be worshiped as only the father should, he clearly had his role and relation to his importance in the illistratin of a family role that we humans can understand.
P2A
Jn 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil.
Jn 7:45 Finally the temple guards went back to the chief priests and Pharisees, who asked them, “Why didn’t you bring him in?”
Jn 7:46 “No one ever spoke the way this man does,” the guards declared.
Jn 7:47 “You mean he has deceived you also?” the Pharisees retorted.
Jn 7:48 “Has any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed in him?
Jn 7:49 No! But this mob that knows nothing of the law—there is a curse on them.”
Jn 7:50 Nicodemus, who had gone to Jesus earlier and who was one of their own number, asked
Jn 8:33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
Jn 8:34 Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
Jn 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
Jn 8:43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
Jn 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of liesJn 9:24 A second time they summoned the man who had been blind. “Give glory to God,’” they said. “We know this man is a sinner.”
Jn 9:25 He replied, “Whether he is a sinner or not, I don’t know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!”
Jn 9:26 Then they asked him, “What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?”
Jn 9:27 He answered, “I have told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples, too?”
Jn 9:28 Then they hurled insults at him and said, “You are this fellow’s disciple! We are disciples of Moses!
Jn 9:29 We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don’t even know where he comes from.”
Jn 9:30 The man answered, “Now that is remarkable! You don’t know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes.
Jn 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will.
Jn 9:32 Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind.
Jn 9:33 If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.”i will not comment this .
peace2all,
I address your question of why people have trouble understanding Jesus’ teaching in another thread about learning to hear with spiritual ears. His teachings are quite easy to understand but one must be listening to them from the right point of view. I call this the spiritual point of view but which means that one must hunger and thirst for righteousness and thus be looking for what fills that hunger and thirst. If you don’t then what God spoke through Ezekiel will be true for you.
Ezekiel 12:2(NIV) reads:
Quote “Son of man, you are living among a rebellious people. They have eyes to see but do not see and ears to hear but do not hear, for they are a rebellious people.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2010,12:55) P2A
Jn 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil.
Jn 7:45 Finally the temple guards went back to the chief priests and Pharisees, who asked them, “Why didn’t you bring him in?”
Jn 7:46 “No one ever spoke the way this man does,” the guards declared.
Jn 7:47 “You mean he has deceived you also?” the Pharisees retorted.
Jn 7:48 “Has any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed in him?
Jn 7:49 No! But this mob that knows nothing of the law—there is a curse on them.”
Jn 7:50 Nicodemus, who had gone to Jesus earlier and who was one of their own number, asked
Jn 8:33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
Jn 8:34 Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
Jn 8:43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
Jn 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of liesJn 9:24 A second time they summoned the man who had been blind. “Give glory to God,’” they said. “We know this man is a sinner.”
Jn 9:25 He replied, “Whether he is a sinner or not, I don’t know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!”
Jn 9:26 Then they asked him, “What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?”
Jn 9:27 He answered, “I have told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples, too?”
Jn 9:28 Then they hurled insults at him and said, “You are this fellow’s disciple! We are disciples of Moses!
Jn 9:29 We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don’t even know where he comes from.”
Jn 9:30 The man answered, “Now that is remarkable! You don’t know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes.
Jn 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will.
Jn 9:32 Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind.
Jn 9:33 If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.”i will not comment this .
Jn 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from Godyes he did come from god, he is the word of god made flesh not a seperate thing of his own that was just always there on his own.
he is part of god's nature, word, wisdom , spirit
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2010,12:55) P2A
Jn 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil.
Jn 7:45 Finally the temple guards went back to the chief priests and Pharisees, who asked them, “Why didn’t you bring him in?”
Jn 7:46 “No one ever spoke the way this man does,” the guards declared.
Jn 7:47 “You mean he has deceived you also?” the Pharisees retorted.
Jn 7:48 “Has any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed in him?
Jn 7:49 No! But this mob that knows nothing of the law—there is a curse on them.”
Jn 7:50 Nicodemus, who had gone to Jesus earlier and who was one of their own number, asked
Jn 8:33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
Jn 8:34 Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
Jn 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
Jn 8:43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
Jn 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of liesJn 9:24 A second time they summoned the man who had been blind. “Give glory to God,’” they said. “We know this man is a sinner.”
Jn 9:25 He replied, “Whether he is a sinner or not, I don’t know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!”
Jn 9:26 Then they asked him, “What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?”
Jn 9:27 He answered, “I have told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples, too?”
Jn 9:28 Then they hurled insults at him and said, “You are this fellow’s disciple! We are disciples of Moses!
Jn 9:29 We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don’t even know where he comes from.”
Jn 9:30 The man answered, “Now that is remarkable! You don’t know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes.
Jn 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will.
Jn 9:32 Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind.
Jn 9:33 If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.”i will not comment this .
T,
i can post many scriptures that state jesus is eternal and giving himself status as that which god has.he is part of god for he is th ecomplete reflection of god.
he is not some spirit being that is of his own occord or self reliance without having such intricate untiy with god as it clearly states by himself over and over.
no he is not the invisible god almighty but a means that god used himself as way to communicate.
it has been done before and i have shown scritures and i notice noone even touches those becasue they are true and cannot be broken
does not mean that the “son” is to be worshiped as the GOd or is another GOD to worship in anyway.
he has his place in power and rank as how it was shown to man in our easy to grasp understanding of father and son relationship.
clearly within the bible it repeats ver and over how there unity is so deep that ne cannot think that jesus is just a good order taker and listner.
he clearly had god's attributes and words onearth and was in complete unity with him as to why he could do all those things.
it doesnt take away the intimate connection to him since he was brought forth just for that, the untouchable, unreachable god is now reachable through his way from christ.
i love and thank god for bringing forth as man who was from god's spirit called his son in our eyes that had all of god's words and messages and will to show s what he really wants from us instead of it just being wtitten on stone.
he taught how to do them in physical sense.
look what he has done for all of us here and over the world.
he has made your faith and worship so strong that we fill our lives with it dedicated to him.
thats what he wants, even though some difference are there we all are filling our lives with him and are not doing the things/desires of flesh and are being masters of sin.
his love sheds on us all.
P2A
you can believe what you want it does not matter,you have to make it up and conclude to your expectation what you want to see,your trinity.i do not have to do that because it is clearly spelled out to me without speculation,and not mystery
you are guide by your own ideasthat your way well you free.
Quote (peace2all @ Jan. 16 2010,01:41) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2010,12:55) P2A
Jn 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil.
Jn 7:45 Finally the temple guards went back to the chief priests and Pharisees, who asked them, “Why didn’t you bring him in?”
Jn 7:46 “No one ever spoke the way this man does,” the guards declared.
Jn 7:47 “You mean he has deceived you also?” the Pharisees retorted.
Jn 7:48 “Has any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed in him?
Jn 7:49 No! But this mob that knows nothing of the law—there is a curse on them.”
Jn 7:50 Nicodemus, who had gone to Jesus earlier and who was one of their own number, asked
Jn 8:33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
Jn 8:34 Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
Jn 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
Jn 8:43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
Jn 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of liesJn 9:24 A second time they summoned the man who had been blind. “Give glory to God,’” they said. “We know this man is a sinner.”
Jn 9:25 He replied, “Whether he is a sinner or not, I don’t know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!”
Jn 9:26 Then they asked him, “What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?”
Jn 9:27 He answered, “I have told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples, too?”
Jn 9:28 Then they hurled insults at him and said, “You are this fellow’s disciple! We are disciples of Moses!
Jn 9:29 We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don’t even know where he comes from.”
Jn 9:30 The man answered, “Now that is remarkable! You don’t know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes.
Jn 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will.
Jn 9:32 Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind.
Jn 9:33 If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.”i will not comment this .
T,
i can post many scriptures that state jesus is eternal and giving himself status as that which god has.he is part of god for he is th ecomplete reflection of god.
he is not some spirit being that is of his own occord or self reliance without having such intricate untiy with god as it clearly states by himself over and over.
no he is not the invisible god almighty but a means that god used himself as way to communicate.
it has been done before and i have shown scritures and i notice noone even touches those becasue they are true and cannot be broken
does not mean that the “son” is to be worshiped as the GOd or is another GOD to worship in anyway.
he has his place in power and rank as how it was shown to man in our easy to grasp understanding of father and son relationship.
clearly within the bible it repeats ver and over how there unity is so deep that ne cannot think that jesus is just a good order taker and listner.
he clearly had god's attributes and words onearth and was in complete unity with him as to why he could do all those things.
it doesnt take away the intimate connection to him since he was brought forth just for that, the untouchable, unreachable god is now reachable through his way from christ.
i love and thank god for bringing forth as man who was from god's spirit called his son in our eyes that had all of god's words and messages and will to show s what he really wants from us instead of it just being wtitten on stone.
he taught how to do them in physical sense.
look what he has done for all of us here and over the world.
he has made your faith and worship so strong that we fill our lives with it dedicated to him.
thats what he wants, even though some difference are there we all are filling our lives with him and are not doing the things/desires of flesh and are being masters of sin.
his love sheds on us all.
Jesus was a begotten Son of God. He had a beginning and did not existed always like His Father did. He now has deity, but to become like us He had to empty Himself to become flesh. These Scriptures are clear.
Col. 1:15-17 and Rev. 3:14
God the Father gave Jesus all the power to create all. He also is the firstborn from the death. Col. 1:1
We also know that nobody has heard His voice or seen His form of our Heavenly Father. John 5 :37. So whenever you hear of God speaking it is the word of God who became Jesus John 1:14
There is a tread preexisting of Jesus and the debate is good.
No matter what the Pharisees or the Scribes or the Jew's said at that time, Jesus knew that He was going to die, it does not matter what any of them said. It is because of that reason that Jesus came to earth to do the will of His Father in Heaven. Did they believe in Him you asked? I don't think so, they wanted Him dead.
IreneQuote (banana @ Jan. 16 2010,06:17) Quote (peace2all @ Jan. 16 2010,01:41) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2010,12:55) P2A
Jn 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil.
Jn 7:45 Finally the temple guards went back to the chief priests and Pharisees, who asked them, “Why didn’t you bring him in?”
Jn 7:46 “No one ever spoke the way this man does,” the guards declared.
Jn 7:47 “You mean he has deceived you also?” the Pharisees retorted.
Jn 7:48 “Has any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed in him?
Jn 7:49 No! But this mob that knows nothing of the law—there is a curse on them.”
Jn 7:50 Nicodemus, who had gone to Jesus earlier and who was one of their own number, asked
Jn 8:33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
Jn 8:34 Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
Jn 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
Jn 8:43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
Jn 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of liesJn 9:24 A second time they summoned the man who had been blind. “Give glory to God,’” they said. “We know this man is a sinner.”
Jn 9:25 He replied, “Whether he is a sinner or not, I don’t know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!”
Jn 9:26 Then they asked him, “What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?”
Jn 9:27 He answered, “I have told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples, too?”
Jn 9:28 Then they hurled insults at him and said, “You are this fellow’s disciple! We are disciples of Moses!
Jn 9:29 We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don’t even know where he comes from.”
Jn 9:30 The man answered, “Now that is remarkable! You don’t know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes.
Jn 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will.
Jn 9:32 Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind.
Jn 9:33 If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.”i will not comment this .
T,
i can post many scriptures that state jesus is eternal and giving himself status as that which god has.he is part of god for he is th ecomplete reflection of god.
he is not some spirit being that is of his own occord or self reliance without having such intricate untiy with god as it clearly states by himself over and over.
no he is not the invisible god almighty but a means that god used himself as way to communicate.
it has been done before and i have shown scritures and i notice noone even touches those becasue they are true and cannot be broken
does not mean that the “son” is to be worshiped as the GOd or is another GOD to worship in anyway.
he has his place in power and rank as how it was shown to man in our easy to grasp understanding of father and son relationship.
clearly within the bible it repeats ver and over how there unity is so deep that ne cannot think that jesus is just a good order taker and listner.
he clearly had god's attributes and words onearth and was in complete unity with him as to why he could do all those things.
it doesnt take away the intimate connection to him since he was brought forth just for that, the untouchable, unreachable god is now reachable through his way from christ.
i love and thank god for bringing forth as man who was from god's spirit called his son in our eyes that had all of god's words and messages and will to show s what he really wants from us instead of it just being wtitten on stone.
he taught how to do them in physical sense.
look what he has done for all of us here and over the world.
he has made your faith and worship so strong that we fill our lives with it dedicated to him.
thats what he wants, even though some difference are there we all are filling our lives with him and are not doing the things/desires of flesh and are being masters of sin.
his love sheds on us all.
Jesus was a begotten Son of God. He had a beginning and did not existed always like His Father did. He now has deity, but to become like us He had to empty Himself to become flesh. These Scriptures are clear.
Col. 1:15-17 and Rev. 3:14
God the Father gave Jesus all the power to create all. He also is the firstborn from the death. Col. 1:1
We also know that nobody has heard His voice or seen His form of our Heavenly Father. John 5 :37. So whenever you hear of God speaking it is the word of God who became Jesus John 1:14
There is a tread preexisting of Jesus and the debate is good.
No matter what the Pharisees or the Scribes or the Jew's said at that time, Jesus knew that He was going to die, it does not matter what any of them said. It is because of that reason that Jesus came to earth to do the will of His Father in Heaven. Did they believe in Him you asked? I don't think so, they wanted Him dead.
Irene
the conception was of god's own spirit broght forth from womb and his word and wisdom being given that spirit seed of god.i still think its funny how everyone ignores all the scriptures that show god as having come to man before in sight and speech. not the almighty invisible god but his own means of himself .
this is what/who jesus really is
it clearly falls into this whole image of what god is. jesus was clearly from god.
he clearly had god's word and wisdom and spirit.
he clearly can do what the father knows because thats what has filled him.
he is not some seperate thing in all. there is total unity with the father in all aspects.
you are right, it doesn't matter really, this is not a subject that will reflect your salvation or not.
however jesus in the scriptures is stated as eternal and divine
not only as titles as everlasting father , immanuel or god or son of the living god and many others. “the word” was god and is god and was with god from old.there are others but all say that they are united and having always been.
not the jesus human form however but that unity of god and his word and wisdom and nature are.
it explains why the old testemant was for the jews and they were his people and were laws and stories for them at that time.
a lot of those stories seem to be illistration of his commandments for them later brought on by moses.
a foreshadow of things that might come. like abraham & issac. the whole father and son sacrifice thing. then god does it with jesus.
the new testement was god's word again in flesh not written for the whole world.
god's word , nature , wisdom , came to ea
rth in a son made of the fathers spirit to show us.so much of the bible is not literal or missing all information.
ex: adam & eve had cain and abel, then cain gets shut out then crys about getting killed so god puts up a sign for noone to kill him.
who is going to kill him unless there were already people on earth.
it says he married? yet there is only mentioned of two sons. then in adams geneology it has seth as his first son and nothing about cain and abel. then there are these areas that they get pushed off to after eden.
where did they come from, they must have been there with people already.
then in moses time about the nephlim or anakim.. there were obviouly other people besides adam & eve. for it says that they were there before and will after.were adam & eve there for the start of the jews? that would make sense since it was them who are his people and all else new god as the god of the jews.
that would esplain why there are many races. otherwise noah and his wife and 3 sons and wives will not make different color people if all same race.
also if the whole world flood why does adam & eve start of in that region and then noah after this terrible horrfic flood not drift them anywhere else, they jut happened to stay in the same region… sounds kinda funny.
not everything is literal or so simple.
i think that the bible is not all need t obe read and interpreted to be given salvation from our worship. there are messages and illistrations and stories in it and also guidence and warnings and rewuirements laid out in it.
not saying that it isn't important but that certain things are not a required to be saved or to have yuorself not plucked from god's hand.
i enjoy conversations with all here adn by what i read that all have passion and love for the scriptures and jesus and god.
thats the main purpose. we all keep those key elements in our life and we will lead our life to a better loving way adn distant from the passing worlds influence.
with the way things are going i wish his kingdom would be now. it hurts to see things as they are. even if to god i wasn't doing all i needed i still would wish it to come and get rid of this hurt and dispare for mankind,
P2A
you confused ,Jesus is not God,
1)he said he is the Son of God not God .
2)he is from God because he is the only begotten son of God.
3)sins he is begotten son it is obvious that he as the qualities of his father .
4)sins God placed him to fulfill his will it is normal that he received the powers to do the job.
5)so God place into his hands to execute all the judgments required to bring live to those who have faith in him and is father,this does not make him the father .you are mix up
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 16 2010,15:22) P2A
you confused ,Jesus is not God,
1)he said he is the Son of God not God .
2)he is from God because he is the only begotten son of God.
3)sins he is begotten son it is obvious that he as the qualities of his father .
4)sins God placed him to fulfill his will it is normal that he received the powers to do the job.
5)so God place into his hands to execute all the judgments required to bring live to those who have faith in him and is father,this does not make him the father .you are mix up
ok whatever you say.i've shown scriptures that tell otherwise.
son of the living god.
to them god was living by means of the son born to them .
does it not mean anything to yuo that they worshiped jesus and called him thier god yet never corrected them.
he is not GOD the invisible almighty, but his nature and word put into that son born of god's own spirit.
he just insant this seperate entity of his own accord and will or nature.
genesis mentions not of jesus but only god & the holy spirit and the means of creation by god speaking of things and it being created.
obviously if jesus is called the word and that they are the same and having always been and he is refered to as the living word made flesh that he is too part of god and not this seperate thing.
in man form spirit son yes but thats it.
god shares glory with no one yet jesus does? makes no sense then. is the bible contradicting itself?
only worship one god, yet his apostles also acknowledged jesus as their god.
now it would have been wrong if in fact they were totally seperate yet since he didn;t correct them and did the opposite saying that they see him for who he was.
you ignore many scriptures.
the only ones you adhere to are ones that talk about jesus's authority position to the father.
that doesn't hold any water in the arguemnet about if he was means of god's own nature and word and spirit here in flesh to show us his will with intamicy face to face instead of written stone words.
that doesn't show any proof that jesus was a son to a father as our minds can comprehend that meaning to us.
you cling to just a earthly title instead of looking at all the scriptures showing you the truth of his nature and connection to god himself.
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