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Quote it's raining here in the Pacific Northwest Mandy;
Did you watch the Seahawks last night? The weather was picture perfect but the game was miserable. You're right, today the weather is miserable, again.
Steven
Did I watch the Seahawks? In our house that would be like asking, “Do you breathe?”
I'm not really the die-hard fan that my husband and son are. In fact, I usually end up leaving the room because of all the yelling and chest-beating! Ha! It was quite the upset. My son was even tempted to cry. Good grief.Do you live in WA state?
Did I watch the Seahawks? In our house that would be like asking, “Do you breathe?” I'm not really the die-hard fan that my husband and son are. In fact, I usually end up leaving the room because of all the yelling and chest-beating! Ha! It was quite the upset. My son was even tempted to cry. Good grief.
Do you live in WA state?
I'm in the Seattle area. I've probably been one of those chest-beaters like your husband and son. I've created a few, too, in my three sons. My wife remains on the fence with respect to being a hard core fan. Pray for her, please. Hope you are recovering in your body.
Steven
You made me laugh. Yes, I'll pray for your wife that she will see the glory in the Seahawks, although it will be toughto convince her the way Mr. H was playing last night.I live about an hour south of you (someone told me I shouldn't give my home town? So, I'm editing my post.) Wow. It's a small world, isn't it?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 16 2007,08:16) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 16 2007,05:44) From this are we to believe that God changed and Jesus who was God is no longer God?
Keith, let's say you have a son named Brian, OK? When you conceived Brian, and Brian was born, did you change?
MandyOh yes. When my son was born I changed!
But that is not the same thing because first of all my son was not me and I was not my son. He did not exist untill he was concieved and born.
Isnt that what natural conception is all about? The beginning of a new natural life.
But you are trying to redefine it by saying that conception is the bringing forth of someone who existed prior as someone else.
That sounds like reincarnation to me.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 16 2007,11:34) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 16 2007,08:16) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 16 2007,05:44) From this are we to believe that God changed and Jesus who was God is no longer God?
Keith, let's say you have a son named Brian, OK? When you conceived Brian, and Brian was born, did you change?
MandyOh yes. When my son was born I changed!
But that is not the same thing because first of all my son was not me and I was not my son. He did not exist untill he was concieved and born.
Isnt that what natural conception is all about? The beginning of a new natural life.
But you are trying to redefine it by saying that conception is the bringing forth of someone who existed prior as someone else.
That sounds like reincarnation to me.
I think we may have a communication problem here.I am not saying that anyone existed physically prior to being born. That would be the incarnation belief.
Everything you said in the beginning of your post is correct.
Your Son is not you (however he was before he was born, right? He was the potential of a son that you carried with you. This is how Jesus was God in the beginning.)
And Jesus did not exist until he was conceived any more than your son existed until he was conceived.
Natural conception – the beginning of a new natural life – EXACTLY! Will you say this about our Lord Jesus? That he was conceived? Your incarnation belief will not allow you to do so.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 16 2007,11:34) Oh yes. When my son was born I changed!
You know what I meant! Ha!My husband and I were just talking tonight about how much we both have changed since having children. Sometimes we don't even recognize those people in the wedding picture anymore……. I think it's time for a weekend away. Raising elementary children is taxing on one's energy, and I hear it only gets better from here.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 16 2007,18:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 16 2007,11:34) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 16 2007,08:16) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 16 2007,05:44) From this are we to believe that God changed and Jesus who was God is no longer God?
Keith, let's say you have a son named Brian, OK? When you conceived Brian, and Brian was born, did you change?
MandyOh yes. When my son was born I changed!
But that is not the same thing because first of all my son was not me and I was not my son. He did not exist untill he was concieved and born.
Isnt that what natural conception is all about? The beginning of a new natural life.
But you are trying to redefine it by saying that conception is the bringing forth of someone who existed prior as someone else.
That sounds like reincarnation to me.
I think we may have a communication problem here.I am not saying that anyone existed physically prior to being born. That would be the incarnation belief.
Everything you said in the beginning of your post is correct.
Your Son is not you (however he was before he was born, right? He was the potential of a son that you carried with you. This is how Jesus was God in the beginning.)
And Jesus did not exist until he was conceived any more than your son existed until he was conceived.
Natural conception – the beginning of a new natural life – EXACTLY! Will you say this about our Lord Jesus? That he was conceived? Your incarnation belief will not allow you to do so.
not3And yet yo are saying he is both divine and human?
No. I'm saying Jesus is a combination of both his parents. He is a divine man. Sort of like a aplorange (a new kind of fruit – apple and orange combined). Kind of a firstfruit, actually!
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 16 2007,18:39) No. I'm saying Jesus is a combination of both his parents. He is a divine man. Sort of like a aplorange (a new kind of fruit – apple and orange combined). Kind of a firstfruit, actually!
If the son of man was divine then so was the first Adam. Jesus is the first fruit because He defeated Satan. He gave Himself to the Father unlike the first Adam He was obedient even unto death.Who knows what the first Adam was capable of before he sinned? He like his master wanted to be God. Making his own choices deciding for himself what was right and what was wrong. Well we NOW know Satan is wrong and God is right!
Only God is right and good!
Ken, thanks for your thoughts on this.
We know that Adam was made from mud. We know that Jesus was “made from” God's holy spirit and Mary. I would imagine there might be a bit of difference between the two Adam's. The comparision is drawn because they are both of the human race (men). However, we are told that the first man came from the earth, and the second from above. Some do not want to see the difference because to them, it prevents them from being just like their brother. It actually discourages them from attempting to be like Christ, and this is sad, but I certainly understand where they are coming from. Of course, I am speaking specifically about our brother, Gene.
There is a difference between Adam and Jesus. That difference is that one is God's *only* Son who was born to him, the other son was created. One bares a resemblence and inherited attributes as sons do, while the other was a “pattern” that was made for the one to come. This is what scripture teaches us. Jesus was born. Adam was created.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 17 2007,04:11) Ken, thanks for your thoughts on this. We know that Adam was made from mud. We know that Jesus was “made from” God's holy spirit and Mary. I would imagine there might be a bit of difference between the two Adam's. The comparision is drawn because they are both of the human race (men). However, we are told that the first man came from the earth, and the second from above. Some do not want to see the difference because to them, it prevents them from being just like their brother. It actually discourages them from attempting to be like Christ, and this is sad, but I certainly understand where they are coming from. Of course, I am speaking specifically about our brother, Gene.
There is a difference between Adam and Jesus. That difference is that one is God's *only* Son who was born to him, the other son was created. One bares a resemblence and inherited attributes as sons do, while the other was a “pattern” that was made for the one to come. This is what scripture teaches us. Jesus was born. Adam was created.
Who was the first Adam's Father? Dirt is all what the Father had to work with in the beginning. What is flesh? Did not flesh come from Adam? Jesus the son of man was flesh But created directly from the Father JUST as the first Adam was created dorectly from the Father.Jesus refered Himself to be the son of man~flesh~ as his brethren are.
Heb 2:17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
He was created in every way the exact same as the first Adam because He had no sin.
If He was divine then He had an advantage OR the first Adam was divine also.
Actually if you read the full context in Hebrews you may notice that the passage says that the children had flesh and blood and so the Son *shared* in their humanity, and he was made exactly like them……..meaning in his body. Yes, Jesus was a man. He ate, slept, had friends, worked a profession, lived and died. But he was not only the Son of Man, he was also the Son of God. We are merely the sons and daughter's of man. Big difference there for those who will accept it.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 17 2007,05:36) Actually if you read the full context in Hebrews you may notice that the passage says that the children had flesh and blood and so the Son *shared* in their humanity, and he was made exactly like them……..meaning in his body. Yes, Jesus was a man. He ate, slept, had friends, worked a profession, lived and died. But he was not only the Son of Man, he was also the Son of God. We are merely the sons and daughter's of man. Big difference there for those who will accept it.
We are born again spirit. Our flesh and blood is sin. Jesus' flesh and blood was NOT sin that is the difference between the Son of Man and us. We have the Spirit of God, Jesus had the Spirit of God. We have sin Jesus did NOT!Adam was created in the Image of God. With NO sin. The Son of man was just that a son of man who because He had no sin was full of the Spirit of God.
Luk 10:21 In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.
Jesus the son of man rejoiced in the Holy Spirit “in that same hour” Then the Son of Man being with the joy of the SPIRIT began to speak to His/our Father.
If the flesh of Jesus was superhuman then one would think He would have the Spirit of God at ALL times.
Jesus had no sin and He had the Spirit of God. We are forgiven of our sins and so we too have the Spirit of God.
Had the Holy Spirit NOT been with Jesus could He have done any miracles? What was special about His flesh? Their was nothing special about Jesus' flesh that's why He called Himself the Son Of Man. The Father did everything through HIM.
That is what made Jesus special He was not of Adam but a direct creation of God just as Adam. Why does scripture call Him the second Adam?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 16 2007,11:11) Ken, thanks for your thoughts on this. We know that Adam was made from mud. We know that Jesus was “made from” God's holy spirit and Mary. I would imagine there might be a bit of difference between the two Adam's. The comparision is drawn because they are both of the human race (men). However, we are told that the first man came from the earth, and the second from above. Some do not want to see the difference because to them, it prevents them from being just like their brother. It actually discourages them from attempting to be like Christ, and this is sad, but I certainly understand where they are coming from. Of course, I am speaking specifically about our brother, Gene.
There is a difference between Adam and Jesus. That difference is that one is God's *only* Son who was born to him, the other son was created. One bares a resemblence and inherited attributes as sons do, while the other was a “pattern” that was made for the one to come. This is what scripture teaches us. Jesus was born. Adam was created.
Only one thing here Mandy. “Monogenes” does not have to mean “only begotten”. I think, biblically, it means more about being a child of promise. Isaac is called the “monogenes” of Abraham and we know he had Ishmael. But Isaac was the only one who would carry out the promises given to Abraham.Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son [“monogenes”];
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 17 2007,05:36) Actually if you read the full context in Hebrews you may notice that the passage says that the children had flesh and blood and so the Son *shared* in their humanity, and he was made exactly like them……..meaning in his body. Yes, Jesus was a man. He ate, slept, had friends, worked a profession, lived and died. But he was not only the Son of Man, he was also the Son of God. We are merely the sons and daughter's of man. Big difference there for those who will accept it.
NO Mandy( if we are born again) we are sons and daughters of God. Our flesh is Dead. We await our new body. When we get our new body what will be the difference between us and Jesus?Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
The difference is Jesus is our older BROTHER. He has the siniority, He is our ELDER and is over us.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam [man] all die, even so in Christ [the son of man who became the Son of God] shall all be made alive.
By man came death~Adam~ by man came also the resurrection. Jesus the Christ.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
What if Adam would not have sinned? Would The Son of Man been born? Jesus was the only Son of God that came from the womb. Adam was the only son that came from the earth.
Adam became flesh. The Word became flesh HOW?
Hi Ken,
Quote When we get our new body what will be the difference between us and Jesus?
Well, for starter's, Jesus will be sitting at the right hand of God and we will be worshipping. Again, it is not the body, or the flesh that is the big deal here. I believe that is a stumbing block to what I'm trying to bring out. Indeed, in the flesh Jesus was a man. However, he is a unique man because he is the combination of God and Mary. In other words, if we were able to do a DNA testing on Jesus, I believe the results would show that he is *other* than 100% human. I believe that if we had a category for “divine human” he would fall into that category.Quote The difference is Jesus is our older BROTHER. He has the siniority, He is our ELDER and is over us.
It's more than just status Ken. As I have said, Jesus belongs, we are adopted. We must be born-again, Jesus had no need for such a thing.Quote What if Adam would not have sinned? Would The Son of Man been born?
No. There would have been no need for Jesus to be born. Jesus was born to defeat Satan and death.Quote The Word became flesh HOW?
True conception. This is what the scriptures tell us. They do not tell us any differently.Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 17 2007,07:28) Only one thing here Mandy. “Monogenes” does not have to mean “only begotten”.
In John, Jesus calls himself the *only* Son of God.This Son of God came by conception.
Quote I believe the results would show that he is *other* than 100% human. I believe that if we had a category for “divine human” he would fall into that category. If Jesus was part God and Part human. Then what was Adam? Was Adam part mud and part flesh and Part God? God did blow life into Adam.
If Jesus was part God then Adam was whole God. Jesus' DNA would show that He was Human as scripture says. Through man came death and through man came the resurrection.
1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man [Jesus] came also the resurrection of the dead.
Certainly that scripture is speaking of Adam and Jesus..both were men. One having sinned and lost his inheritance and the other obeying and receiving the inheritance. But the scripture says BOTH were men. Not hybrids just men.
Only the Spirit can straighten this one out
Ken,
Well, Adam's body was created from the ground, That is the “flesh” part. And then God breathed into him, something He did not do with any other creature. “breath” and “spirit” are synonymous, although the word used for “breath” in Gen 2:7 was not the the word typically used for “spirit”. But it is used twice in other verse to refer to the spirit of man. So the verse could read
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the spirit of life; and man became a living soul.
This is our first indication, I think, of man having body spirit, and soul.
This leads to another question: his body was from Mary, what of his spirit and soul? Was his spirit actually of the Holy Spirit? Yet we alos know the Holy Spirit descended on him at the baptism.
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