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Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 04 2007,11:40) Hi not3,
By the enlivened mind of Christ, not our pathetic minds.
Yes, so true – so true.This is why we must renew our minds!
True,
We must be transformed by the renewing of our minds.
That is the enlarging work of the Spirit of God.Jodi – please continue your thoughts on the Conception of Jesus HERE! I will also be answering from your Preexistent post here concerning the Conception ideas.
If we keep it fairly organized, then others (and newcomers) will be able to find all the great information on Conception in one place.
Thanks!
Quote Nick, in the Conception thread you are noted as saying: “Will you say Elizabeth did not naturally conceive a son? Then since scripture uses the same word why do you say Mary did not conceive?” p.14
And again you say, “Jesus is the literal Son of God.” p.9
Again, “He is the physical Son of God by the conception through the Holy Spirit in Mary.” p.2
Lastly, “If Jesus was truly conceived from God's Spirit and Mary then that could not be when he became the Son of God. That would make him the Son of God and Mary. p.16
On the very same page, “Jesus is the physical son of God.”
Your theology is not consistent (and I'm only on p.16). The reason I bring this to light is because I have been so desperately trying to follow you. But, alas, I feel as though we are going around in circles. Just when I believe we have laid a foundation of understanding, we go back to the beginning again. I'm not sure if you are doing this for my benefit somehow? or if you are just trying to encourage me? in any case, I'm ready to let it rest. I had hoped to come to a clearer understanding of who you think Jesus was/was/and is now, but I do believe we have exhausted our ideas together on this.
The body that was prepared for Jesus was prepared by God – how? The gospels tell us the simple story: God selected a virgin named Mary, and his holy Spirit overshadowed her and she conceived. The babe born was a boy and given the name Jesus. The steps are simple and I believe that is why they are a stumbling block for some. Scripture taken at face value tells us that the body prepared for Jesus was prepared in the womb of Mary – Jesus is truly the Son of The Almighty God, and puny Man.
I wanted to bring this over from the Lamb of God thread – it really belongs here.
Plus, I have been a bit bothered by the review of this post. Nick, I was wondering if you could review the statements made by yourself as quoted above, when you have a moment? Can you shed any light on the apparent contradictions in your theology? Thanks.
Hi not3,
If you believe as I do that the term “Son of God” in essence is exclusive to the relationship beween God and His son then it was before he was conceived that he was begotten a son. That does not relate to or prevent him also being the physical Son of God [and Mary] at his conception.What do other's think?
If Jesus was a preexisting son prior to his conception inside of Mary – would his being change after the conception process?
Or would it be like the incarnation where deity grew alongside of humanity and did not fuse as in a normal conception?
In reviewing the thread and other's with like-topics, I've noted that most do not believe Jesus had a natural conception. Why? Are the gospels not clear?
Folks,
You have to realize that the Bible was written by the inspiration of men in terms and concepts they knew. People in the 1st century and before knew none of the details of the biology of conception. Why would you therefore expect that this aspect of the conception be mentioned at all? So now people will end up just inserting what they want to believe because the Bible was silent on this.
We will not know the answer of what took place in Mary until we get home. This is one area we must not go back and forth about because we will not find the answer in scripture.
CORRECTION: The line “the Bible was written by the inspiration of men” should read “the Bible was written by men under the inspiration of God”. Sorry, no editing rights
.Quote (kejonn @ July 20 2007,18:31) Folks, You have to realize that the Bible was written by the inspiration of men in terms and concepts they knew. People in the 1st century and before knew none of the details of the biology of conception. Why would you therefore expect that this aspect of the conception be mentioned at all? So now people will end up just inserting what they want to believe because the Bible was silent on this.
We will not know the answer of what took place in Mary until we get home. This is one area we must not go back and forth about because we will not find the answer in scripture.
Men and women understood the concept of conceiving children. This is not rocket-science, surely?When little Johnny was born with Daddy's ears and Mamma's eyes……they knew that their children were a mixture of the two.
How all this happens is the biology that you speak of. The information that they knew back then – which we now have evidence for.
I am discouraged at how many wish to dismiss the conception chat. The gospels do not need to mention details of biology, all they need to say is the truth of what happened: Jesus was conceived and born.
Thanks, KJ for your input. I value your ideas and insight to scripture very much.
N3,
Yes they understood that part but you were starting to get into the biological aspects. You know sperm and egg and all that stuff
. But that was the part that I was talking about. Nick is determined to prove, at least in his own mind, that Mary was the only important parent as far as Yeshua's humanity was concerned. He constantly ignores the fact that YHWH is the daddy 
.I keep seeing people say that we wouldn't be able to follow him if he had any advantage over us or that he was in any way extraordinary. I don't know about you, but I don't follow any man unless I'm required to do so as part of my job or under similar circumstances. So why would anyone follow an ordinary Yeshua if he was no different than any other 1st century Jew?
Mat 16:13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”
Mat 16:14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.”
Mat 16:15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”Ordinary, mere man hmmm?
Mat 4:18 Now as Jesus was walking by the Sea of Galilee, He saw two brothers, Simon who was called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen.
Mat 4:19 And He said to them, “Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men.”
Mat 4:20 Immediately they left their nets and followed Him.
——————————-
Mat 9:9 As Jesus went on from there, He saw a man called Matthew, sitting in the tax collector's booth; and He said to him, “Follow Me!” And he got up and followed Him.
——————————-
Jhn 1:43 The next day He purposed to go into Galilee, and He found Philip. And Jesus said to him, “Follow Me.”
Jhn 1:44 Now Philip was from Bethsaida, of the city of Andrew and Peter.
Jhn 1:45 Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found Him of whom Moses in the Law and also the Prophets wrote–Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”
Jhn 1:46 Nathanael said to him, “Can any good thing come out of Nazareth?” Philip said to him, “Come and see.”
Jhn 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to Him, and *said of him, “Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!”
Jhn 1:48 Nathanael said to Him, “How do You know me?” Jesus answered and said to him, “Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you.”
Jhn 1:49 Nathanael answered Him, “Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel.”
Jhn 1:50 Jesus answered and said to him, “Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe? You will see greater things than these.”
Jhn 1:51 And He said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see the heavens opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”Yes, this was all after the anointing, but he was never just ordinary. No man born of a virgin and God could be, now could he?
Hi KJ,
You say
“Yes they understood that part but you were starting to get into the biological aspects. You know sperm and egg and all that stuff . But that was the part that I was talking about. Nick is determined to prove, at least in his own mind, that Mary was the only important parent as far as Yeshua's humanity was concerned. He constantly ignores the fact that YHWH is the daddy .”
WHOANot so.
I am just trying to balance the books.
I am trying to clarify the facts for those who say he was the Son of God but try to make out he had no mother but was a clone of his Dad.
Mary contributed her genes and God sent the rest and he still finished up with the number that made him a mANNick,
Apologies if that rubbed you the wrong way. But your posts constantly emphasize that Yeshua was an ordinary, mere man. That is where one would get the idea that you focus more on Mary than God in the parental contribution. No man can be the biological son of God and Man and be ordinary though he may appear to be so on the outside.
Hi KJ,
Outer man-visible Flesh
Inner man-Monogenes Son of God
Within him from the Jordan-God as Spirit.Quote (kejonn @ July 20 2007,19:18) N3, Yes they understood that part but you were starting to get into the biological aspects. You know sperm and egg and all that stuff
. But that was the part that I was talking about. Nick is determined to prove, at least in his own mind, that Mary was the only important parent as far as Yeshua's humanity was concerned. He constantly ignores the fact that YHWH is the daddy .I keep seeing people say that we wouldn't be able to follow him if he had any advantage over us or that he was in any way extraordinary. I don't know about you, but I don't follow any man unless I'm required to do so as part of my job or under similar circumstances. So why would anyone follow an ordinary Yeshua if he was no different than any other 1st century Jew?
Mat 16:13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”
Mat 16:14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.”
Mat 16:15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”Ordinary, mere man hmmm?
Mat 4:18 Now as Jesus was walking by the Sea of Galilee, He saw two brothers, Simon who was called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen.
Mat 4:19 And He said to them, “Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men.”
Mat 4:20 Immediately they left their nets and followed Him.
——————————-
Mat 9:9 As Jesus went on from there, He saw a man called Matthew, sitting in the tax collector's booth; and He said to him, “Follow Me!” And he got up and followed Him.
——————————-
Jhn 1:43 The next day He purposed to go into Galilee, and He found Philip. And Jesus said to him, “Follow Me.”
Jhn 1:44 Now Philip was from Bethsaida, of the city of Andrew and Peter.
Jhn 1:45 Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found Him of whom Moses in the Law and also the Prophets wrote–Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”
Jhn 1:46 Nathanael said to him, “Can any good thing come out of Nazareth?” Philip said to him, “Come and see.”
Jhn 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to Him, and *said of him, “Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!”
Jhn 1:48 Nathanael said to Him, “How do You know me?” Jesus answered and said to him, “Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you.”
Jhn 1:49 Nathanael answered Him, “Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel.”
Jhn 1:50 Jesus answered and said to him, “Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe? You will see greater things than these.”
Jhn 1:51 And He said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see the heavens opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”Yes, this was all after the anointing, but he was never just ordinary. No man born of a virgin and God could be, now could he?
Amen, brother! Amen!Jesus was a mystery, to a large degree, when he walked this earth. Has anything changed? We still wonder who and what he is? I'm glad we are disecting these topics. I expect to know Jesus better after all these discussions.
Thanks to all who are contributing to this thread. It is blessing my very soul and I am learning new things with every post.
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 21 2007,07:26) Quote (kejonn @ July 20 2007,19:18) N3, Yes they understood that part but you were starting to get into the biological aspects. You know sperm and egg and all that stuff
. But that was the part that I was talking about. Nick is determined to prove, at least in his own mind, that Mary was the only important parent as far as Yeshua's humanity was concerned. He constantly ignores the fact that YHWH is the daddy .I keep seeing people say that we wouldn't be able to follow him if he had any advantage over us or that he was in any way extraordinary. I don't know about you, but I don't follow any man unless I'm required to do so as part of my job or under similar circumstances. So why would anyone follow an ordinary Yeshua if he was no different than any other 1st century Jew?
Mat 16:13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”
Mat 16:14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.”
Mat 16:15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”Ordinary, mere man hmmm?
Mat 4:18 Now as Jesus was walking by the Sea of Galilee, He saw two brothers, Simon who was called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen.
Mat 4:19 And He said to them, “Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men.”
Mat 4:20 Immediately they left their nets and followed Him.
——————————-
Mat 9:9 As Jesus went on from there, He saw a man called Matthew, sitting in the tax collector's booth; and He said to him, “Follow Me!” And he got up and followed Him.
——————————-
Jhn 1:43 The next day He purposed to go into Galilee, and He found Philip. And Jesus said to him, “Follow Me.”
Jhn 1:44 Now Philip was from Bethsaida, of the city of Andrew and Peter.
Jhn 1:45 Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found Him of whom Moses in the Law and also the Prophets wrote–Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”
Jhn 1:46 Nathanael said to him, “Can any good thing come out of Nazareth?” Philip said to him, “Come and see.”
Jhn 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to Him, and *said of him, “Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!”
Jhn 1:48 Nathanael said to Him, “How do You know me?” Jesus answered and said to him, “Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you.”
Jhn 1:49 Nathanael answered Him, “Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel.”
Jhn 1:50 Jesus answered and said to him, “Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe? You will see greater things than these.”
Jhn 1:51 And He said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see the heavens opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”Yes, this was all after the anointing, but he was never just ordinary. No man born of a virgin and God could be, now could he?
Amen, brother! Amen!Jesus was a mystery, to a large degree, when he walked this earth. Has anything changed? We still wonder who and what he is? I'm glad we are disecting these topics. I expect to know Jesus better after all these discussions.
Thanks to all who are contributing to this thread. It is blessing my very soul and I am learning new things with every post.
Jesus was the only Son of man with no sin and thus having the Holy Spirit without measure. If we believe we are forgiven do we have sin?1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.If we walk after the Spirit then we have no sin. If we should sin then when we repent we are forgiven as though the sin never existed.
How were we to do greater works than Jesus if we do not walk in his shoes. But remember it is not we but Him that lives in us because we walk in the Spirit.
Satan the other night in a dream was showing me all my sins from the beginning of my life and then told me was not worthy. I smiled and said I know I'm not worthy but He that lives in me is worthy and has defeated you. And that was the end that was the first time that ever happened ummmm It must be getting close Praise His Holy Name, I can't wait!
Quote (kejonn @ July 20 2007,19:32) Nick, Apologies if that rubbed you the wrong way. But your posts constantly emphasize that Yeshua was an ordinary, mere man. That is where one would get the idea that you focus more on Mary than God in the parental contribution. No man can be the biological son of God and Man and be ordinary though he may appear to be so on the outside.
I couldn't agree more! Especially your last sentence.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2007,19:37) Hi KJ,
Outer man-visible Flesh
Inner man-Monogenes Son of God
Within him from the Jordan-God as Spirit.
When we are conceived, do we also inherit our “inner man” or spirits from our parents?In another thread, Nick, you agreed that we do!
Here you are saying that Jesus' “inner man” is the preexistent son of God (an already living, complete person).
If the “outer man” is flesh, then the “inner man” must be spirit, and our parents give us both at conception, right? Can we be considered ALIVE unless we have both?
And again, in another thread you say that Jesus was truly conceived. Could Jesus undergo the conception process and still be the same preexistent spirit son?
What do other's think?
Hi Not3,
You say.
“In another thread, Nick, you agreed that we do!”Can you show me this?
The Son of God partook of flesh and became man. His flesh was prepared for him.
God says he was conceived so I will leave the details to Him.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 21 2007,23:36) Hi Not3,
You say.
“In another thread, Nick, you agreed that we do!”Can you show me this?
The Son of God partook of flesh and became man. His flesh was prepared for him.
God says he was conceived so I will leave the details to Him.
Did Jesus born of the Holy Spirit walk in the Joy of the Spirit all of the time?Luk 10:21
(ASV) In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou didst hide these things from the wise and understanding, and didst reveal them unto babes: yea, Father; for so it was well-pleasing in thy sight.
(CEV) At that same time, Jesus felt the joy that comes from the Holy Spirit, and he said: My Father, Lord of heaven and earth, I am grateful that you hid all this from wise and educated people and showed it to ordinary people. Yes, Father, that is what pleased you.
(DRB) In that same hour, he rejoiced in the Holy Ghost and said: I confess to thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hidden these things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them to little ones. Yea, Father, for so it hath seemed good in thy sight.
(ESV) In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.
(GNB) At that time Jesus was filled with joy by the Holy Spirit and said, “Father, Lord of heaven and earth! I thank you because you have shown to the unlearned what you have hidden from the wise and learned. Yes, Father, this was how you were pleased to have it happen.
(GW) In that hour the Holy Spirit filled Jesus with joy. Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for hiding these things from wise and intelligent people and revealing them to little children. Yes, Father, this is what pleased you.
(KJV) In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
(KJV+) In1722 that846 hour5610 Jesus2424 rejoiced21 in spirit,4151 and2532 said,2036 I thank1843 thee,4671 O Father,3962 Lord2962 of heaven3772 and2532 earth,1093 that3754 thou hast hid613 these things5023 from575 the wise4680 and2532 prudent,4908 and2532 hast revealed601 them846 unto babes:3516 even so,3483 Father;3962 for3754 so3779 it seemed1096 good2107 in thy sight.1715, 4675
(KJVR) In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
(LITV) In the same hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit, and said, I praise You, Father, Lord of Heaven and of earth, that You hid these things from the sophisticated and cunning and revealed them to babes; yes, Father, because so it was pleasing before You.
(MKJV) In that hour Jesus rejoiced in Spirit and said, I thank You, Father, Lord of Heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the sophisticated and cunning, and have revealed them to babes. Yes, Father, for so it was pleasing before You.
(MSG) At that, Jesus rejoiced, exuberant in the Holy Spirit. “I thank you, Father, Master of heaven and earth, that you hid these things from the know-it-alls and showed them to these innocent newcomers. Yes, Father, it pleased you to do it this way.
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and began to speak to the Father. Is this not the way it is with us? We walk through trials and get vists from the Spirit.
Jesus may have been without sin, the only begotten of the Father, had the Spirit without measure, performed miracles but he was found in the fashion (circumstance) of a MAN.
He walked in the Spirit even though the Joy of the Spirit was not always with Him. Do you agree?
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