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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 05 2006,08:53) Hi RR,
Do you have problems with God calling men his sons as with Is 1.2, Deut 14.1?
Or is it the firstborn status of the Son of God you are struggling with?
Nick,How about I post the verses that you have quoted since you seem to prefer not to:
Quote Isaiah 1:2 ¶ Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.
Deut 14:1 1 ¶ Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.These verses are not in the same context as the ones I asked you to comment on. Let's just look at them once again.
Quote Exodus 4:22 “Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the LORD: “Israel is My son, My firstborn. 1 Chronicles 28:6 “Now He said to me, ‘It is your son Solomon who shall build My house and My courts; for I have chosen him to be My son, and I will be his Father.
Revelation 21:7 “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
My verses were in regard to others being called a son of God. They were in regard to Yahshua being called the 'unique Son of God'. It appears that you are the one with the problem.
Why is it that you cannot answer the questions put to you Nick? Why must you always deflect them?
Hi RR,
Why would you resist giving clarifications?
Is that not a reasonable request?
Must we be mindreaders?Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God. His divine sonship is from the beginning and is not of the same order as the sonship of men, made by God through him, as were all things made.
God has many children, many sons.
Sons of Adam, sons of Israel, heavenly sons, sons in Christ Jesus.
What is the deal?
Paul said to the Athenians that they even could be called sons of God – through Adam.Men can be called firstborn sons by the decision of God.
God told Moses to say that because He was warning them He would destroy their firstborn sons.
But God's Son shown in Proverbs 30 and Coll 1.14 is His divine firstborn Son.Quote (Ramblinrose @ Aug. 05 2006,08:19) I also do not understand why Mary had to be a 'virgin' (as in never having had sex but be with child). If we go back to the verses quoted in Isaiah 7:14 you will see that Isaiah had sexual relations with the prophetess and that a child was born (Isaiah 8.3) This agrees with what I believe is the case with Mary. Joseph had relations with her and she conceived – it is a parallel prophecy It is a very difficult topic and hard to change what we have believed for so many years. I didn't come to my beliefs easily either, I struggled with them for many many months but now it all seems to just fit together.
God Bless you Cubes and may he help us all on our journey for truth.
Hi RR,
It is true that the OT did not specify that Mary would be a virgin but as written in the new it does and confirms by her own mouth and the words of God that she was a virgin and did not know man.
So if you were you reject these statements you are either saying Scripture is corrupt or that you are greater than scripture and I do not believe on this matter that either is true. If you cast doubt on scripture without evidence of it being corrupted and cause doubts among God's people do you not risk the millstone?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 05 2006,22:56) Quote (Ramblinrose @ Aug. 05 2006,08:19) I also do not understand why Mary had to be a 'virgin' (as in never having had sex but be with child). If we go back to the verses quoted in Isaiah 7:14 you will see that Isaiah had sexual relations with the prophetess and that a child was born (Isaiah 8.3) This agrees with what I believe is the case with Mary. Joseph had relations with her and she conceived – it is a parallel prophecy It is a very difficult topic and hard to change what we have believed for so many years. I didn't come to my beliefs easily either, I struggled with them for many many months but now it all seems to just fit together.
God Bless you Cubes and may he help us all on our journey for truth.
Hi RR,
It is true that the OT did not specify that Mary would be a virgin but as written in the new it does and confirms by her own mouth and the words of God that she was a virgin and did not know man.
So if you were you reject these statements you are either saying Scripture is corrupt or that you are greater than scripture and I do not believe on this matter that either is true. If you cast doubt on scripture without evidence of it being corrupted and cause doubts among God's people do you not risk the millstone?
I agree. When the angel visited Mary she had not know a man – she was a virgin. I believe she had relations with Joseph after the Angels visit. Mary and Joseph were already betrothed and considered husband and wife. I am in agreement with scripture.Hi RR,
You said
“I believe she had relations with Joseph after the Angels visit”Your opinion seems to differ from scripture.
Matt 1
” 18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.19Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.
20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
24Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
25And KNEW HER NOT till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.”
Matthew 1: 18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
‘Before they came together’ is not about sexual relations it is in regard to living together. Before they had come to live together (which was the final step of betrothel) Mary was found to be with child.
Matthew 1:25 And KNEW HER NOT till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.”
Quote ** quote from the Dead Sea Scrolls a new translation. translated and with commentary. michael wise, martin abegg, jr., & edward cook . pg 65. (harpersanfrancisco copyright 1996) “who lies with a pregnant woman when her monthly period ceases or lies with a man as one lies with a woman: these are the ones who violate the way” a few of these words are guesses but the meaning is clear.
It appears that it was customary to not have sexual relations with your wife when she was with child. Joseph had relations with her and she conceived a child and then he no longer had relations with her until after the child was born – as was the custom.
Hi RR,
Matt 1
” 18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.19Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.
20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.”
Hi,
Jesus was conceived in Mary but that was his partaking of flesh. To decide to come and partake of flesh a being must first be living, must exist.Heb 2
” 14Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,”Hi,
God, by His Spirit was the father of Jesus when Jesus, the monogenes son, agreed to empty himself and come into the world and partake of our flesh nature becoming son of man, and a glorious vessel for the treasure of God's Eternal Spirit.
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