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Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2013,05:42) Colter, Quote Jesus never taught human sacrifice, nor was human sacrifice a part of Judaism, nor was the sacrifice of a miraculous person part of the original gospel…….HOWEVER, the sacrifice of a divine God/man WAS a common theme across many pre-Christian mythology's in Rome, Greece, Persia, Egypt, Mesopotamia, basically all around the Israel. You are calling it out of its name. Self sacrifice is indeed part of Judaism. Samson killed himself in order to defeat God's enemies. Don't you believe Jesus was willing to do the same?
Jesus chose to die in order to convict the world of sin and seal the new covenant.
Kerwin,You have introduced a new term or concept into this conversation which is different then death as a ransom for sin, the atonement doctrine.
Sacrifice minded people might naturally interpret the cross as a sacrifice, but Jesus taught real salvation via personal transformation and a subsequent life of faith, a commitment to seek and do the will of God in our lives as Jesus did in his life.
Jesus sought to lead man back to God, not convict man of anything.
Colter
colter
Jesus sought to lead man back to God, not convict man of anything.
this is true ,BUT YOU FORGET TO SAY THAT THE FACT THAT HE CAME AND SACRIFICE HIS LIFE FOR US ,WE ALL GET JUDGED BY HIS TEACHINGS ,(FAITH IN HIS PROMISE)
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 16 2013,06:38) colter Quote The concept of “original sin” comes from the fact that Adam and Eve lost their own immortality because of their own person rejection of the plan of redemption for our previously fallen world. why would a perfect couple looking for REDEMPTION
Terrarcca,* The earth is old, the world had already been betrayed, fallen into darkness because the “crafty beast” joined the rebellion against God, against the Son…….by the time Adam & Eve came on their incarnate mission of redemption.
Earth 4.8 billion
The life carriers initiated life (started evolution) 550,000,000 BC
man became “will concious” 1,000,000 BC
The “brilliant angel of light” arrived roughly 500,000 BC to lead the world.
The “brilliant angel of light” rebelled, was lead into sin by Satan, Lucifer about 200,000 BC. He became “the crafty beast”
Adam and Eve incarnate 39,000 years ago
NOTE: the “crafty beast” has already embraced Sin, has already fallen, is trying to trip up Adam & Eve:
Gen. 3 “3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
You see? The beast is ALREADY evil, already on the earth and attempting to mess up the redemption mission.
Eve sins, mates with another, Cain is the bastard child of that Sin. Taunted by his half brother Able he would eventually kill Able and decide to leave the garden for the land of his fathers people, Nod.
So death came to Adam and Eve, death is normal for mortal man, death was already on the earth.
The Son of God decided that earth will be the world of his incarnation on behalf of 10,000,00 inhabited worlds “I have sheep not of this fold, I must bring them also”
1973 BC Melchizedek incarnate, makes covenant with Abram to prepare for arrival of Jesus.
After 90 years Melchizedek leaves but continues to work through the prophets.
7 BC Jesus comes, reveals the Father, makes the way of salvation more clear.
1934 Urantia revelation is given.
Colter
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 16 2013,08:26) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 16 2013,06:38) colter Quote The concept of “original sin” comes from the fact that Adam and Eve lost their own immortality because of their own person rejection of the plan of redemption for our previously fallen world. why would a perfect couple looking for REDEMPTION
Terrarcca,* The earth is old, the world had already been betrayed, fallen into darkness because the “crafty beast” joined the rebellion against God, against the Son…….by the time Adam & Eve came on their incarnate mission of redemption.
Earth 4.8 billion
The life carriers initiated life (started evolution) 550,000,000 BC
man became “will concious” 1,000,000 BC
The “brilliant angel of light” arrived roughly 500,000 BC to lead the world.
The “brilliant angel of light” rebelled, was lead into sin by Satan, Lucifer about 200,000 BC. He became “the crafty beast”
Adam and Eve incarnate 39,000 years ago
NOTE: the “crafty beast” has already embraced Sin, has already fallen, is trying to trip up Adam & Eve:
Gen. 3 “3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
You see? The beast is ALREADY evil, already on the earth and attempting to mess up the redemption mission.
Eve sins, mates with another, Cain is the bastard child of that Sin. Taunted by his half brother Able he would eventually kill Able and decide to leave the garden for the land of his fathers people, Nod.
So death came to Adam and Eve, death is normal for mortal man, death was already on the earth.
The Son of God decided that earth will be the world of his incarnation on behalf of 10,000,00 inhabited worlds “I have sheep not of this fold, I must bring them also”
1973 BC Melchizedek incarnate, makes covenant with Abram to prepare for arrival of Jesus.
After 90 years Melchizedek leaves but continues to work through the prophets.
7 BC Jesus comes, reveals the Father, makes the way of salvation more clear.
1934 Urantia revelation is given.
Colter
Colter.We dont need words,we need evidence.
Great story,but without a shred of evidence.
You are speaking of life, millions of years on earth,
but where is the evidence?Where are the cities,and the technology left behind?
Mind you;we are talking about millions of years here,
and they were still using arrowheads of stone?When was the wheel invented? Two million years ago?
Why was the camel not replaced by cars?Millions of years of population; the earth must have been over crowded. But not a shred of evidence.
No old cities found in australia or anywhere.No old multistorey concrete buildings found in arabia,nothing but camels. No highways or concrete bridges, no concrete airports.
No tombs,No steel warships,no nothing.
All we have is a story,this is not history.
wakeup.
colter
Quote * The earth is old, the world had already been betrayed, fallen into darkness because the “crafty beast” joined the rebellion against God, against the Son…….by the time Adam & Eve came on their incarnate mission of redemption. where do you get all those stories
this is so bazar ,spooky ,and now you add incarnation to redemption, evolution, and I am not counting now the new 1934 revelation of the Urantia book, the devil beast is working hard to eliminate the scriptures this I can tell you ,and you are part of it ,
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 16 2013,02:56) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2013,05:42) Colter, Quote Jesus never taught human sacrifice, nor was human sacrifice a part of Judaism, nor was the sacrifice of a miraculous person part of the original gospel…….HOWEVER, the sacrifice of a divine God/man WAS a common theme across many pre-Christian mythology's in Rome, Greece, Persia, Egypt, Mesopotamia, basically all around the Israel. You are calling it out of its name. Self sacrifice is indeed part of Judaism. Samson killed himself in order to defeat God's enemies. Don't you believe Jesus was willing to do the same?
Jesus chose to die in order to convict the world of sin and seal the new covenant.
Kerwin,You have introduced a new term or concept into this conversation which is different then death as a ransom for sin, the atonement doctrine.
Sacrifice minded people might naturally interpret the cross as a sacrifice, but Jesus taught real salvation via personal transformation and a subsequent life of faith, a commitment to seek and do the will of God in our lives as Jesus did in his life.
Jesus sought to lead man back to God, not convict man of anything.
Colter
Colter,Your words hint at a humanistic tenet but Jesus teaches:
real salvation via Spirit powered transformation and a subsequent life of faith, compelled to seek and do the will of God in our lives as Jesus did in his life.
Note: I replaced certain of your words with the bolded ones the the hint of a humanistic tenet.
The World, Satan and his servants, is condemned for putting an innocent man to death. Jesus gained the authority to send the Spirit because he sacrificed his own life in mercy. Those who receive and live by the Spirit break their chains to hate and so are not Satan's servants.
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 16 2013,09:57) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 16 2013,08:26) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 16 2013,06:38) colter Quote The concept of “original sin” comes from the fact that Adam and Eve lost their own immortality because of their own person rejection of the plan of redemption for our previously fallen world. why would a perfect couple looking for REDEMPTION
Terrarcca,* The earth is old, the world had already been betrayed, fallen into darkness because the “crafty beast” joined the rebellion against God, against the Son…….by the time Adam & Eve came on their incarnate mission of redemption.
Earth 4.8 billion
The life carriers initiated life (started evolution) 550,000,000 BC
man became “will concious” 1,000,000 BC
The “brilliant angel of light” arrived roughly 500,000 BC to lead the world.
The “brilliant angel of light” rebelled, was lead into sin by Satan, Lucifer about 200,000 BC. He became “the crafty beast”
Adam and Eve incarnate 39,000 years ago
NOTE: the “crafty beast” has already embraced Sin, has already fallen, is trying to trip up Adam & Eve:
Gen. 3 “3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
You see? The beast is ALREADY evil, already on the earth and attempting to mess up the redemption mission.
Eve sins, mates with another, Cain is the bastard child of that Sin. Taunted by his half brother Able he would eventually kill Able and decide to leave the garden for the land of his fathers people, Nod.
So death came to Adam and Eve, death is normal for mortal man, death was already on the earth.
The Son of God decided that earth will be the world of his incarnation on behalf of 10,000,00 inhabited worlds “I have sheep not of this fold, I must bring them also”
1973 BC Melchizedek incarnate, makes covenant with Abram to prepare for arrival of Jesus.
After 90 years Melchizedek leaves but continues to work through the prophets.
7 BC Jesus comes, reveals the Father, makes the way of salvation more clear.
1934 Urantia revelation is given.
Colter
Colter.We dont need words,we need evidence.
Great story,but without a shred of evidence.
You are speaking of life, millions of years on earth,
but where is the evidence?Where are the cities,and the technology left behind?
Mind you;we are talking about millions of years here,
and they were still using arrowheads of stone?When was the wheel invented? Two million years ago?
Why was the camel not replaced by cars?Millions of years of population; the earth must have been over crowded. But not a shred of evidence.
No old cities found in australia or anywhere.No old multistorey concrete buildings found in arabia,nothing but camels. No highways or concrete bridges, no concrete airports.
No tombs,No steel warships,no nothing.
All we have is a story,this is not history.
wakeup.
Backward, primitive man hadn't really progressed that far up until the times of Adam, then after the “fall” all their work was for not and man toiled on for thousands of years more.Colter
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2013,21:59) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 16 2013,02:56) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2013,05:42) Colter, Quote Jesus never taught human sacrifice, nor was human sacrifice a part of Judaism, nor was the sacrifice of a miraculous person part of the original gospel…….HOWEVER, the sacrifice of a divine God/man WAS a common theme across many pre-Christian mythology's in Rome, Greece, Persia, Egypt, Mesopotamia, basically all around the Israel. You are calling it out of its name. Self sacrifice is indeed part of Judaism. Samson killed himself in order to defeat God's enemies. Don't you believe Jesus was willing to do the same?
Jesus chose to die in order to convict the world of sin and seal the new covenant.
Kerwin,You have introduced a new term or concept into this conversation which is different then death as a ransom for sin, the atonement doctrine.
Sacrifice minded people might naturally interpret the cross as a sacrifice, but Jesus taught real salvation via personal transformation and a subsequent life of faith, a commitment to seek and do the will of God in our lives as Jesus did in his life.
Jesus sought to lead man back to God, not convict man of anything.
Colter
Colter,Your words hint at a humanistic tenet but Jesus teaches:
real salvation via Spirit powered transformation and a subsequent life of faith, compelled to seek and do the will of God in our lives as Jesus did in his life.
Note: I replaced certain of your words with the bolded ones the the hint of a humanistic tenet.
The World, Satan and his servants, is condemned for putting an innocent man to death. Jesus gained the authority to send the Spirit because he sacrificed his own life in mercy. Those who receive and live by the Spirit break their chains to hate and so are not Satan's servants.
Kerwin,Then you called for Jesus to be put to death instead of Barabbas? You support Judas? You support the mock trial that convicted Jesus? You need the sacrifice of Jesus for your selfish sins rather then accepting Gods forgiveness (already available in the original gospel) instead of confessing and repenting your sins with a desire to “go and sin no more”?
This is the strange thing, the Paganized version of the original Gospel needs Jesus to be sacrificed, while Jesus' gospel taught salvation by faith.
Sermon from Jesus in the UB:
The Second Discourse on Religion
(1730.5) 155:6.1 And so, while they paused in the shade of the hillside, Jesus continued to teach them regarding the religion of the spirit, in substance saying:
(1730.6) 155:6.2 You have come out from among those of your fellows who choose to remain satisfied with a religion of mind, who crave security and prefer conformity. You have elected to exchange your feelings of authoritative certainty for the assurances of the spirit of adventurous and progressive faith. You have dared to protest against the grueling bondage of institutional religion and to reject the authority of the traditions of record which are now regarded as the word of God. Our Father did indeed speak through Moses, Elijah, Isaiah, Amos, and Hosea, but he did not cease to minister words of truth to the world when these prophets of old made an end of their utterances. My Father is no respecter of races or generations in that the word of truth is vouchsafed one age and withheld from another. Commit not the folly of calling that divine which is wholly human, and fail not to discern the words of truth which come not through the traditional oracles of supposed inspiration.
(1731.1) 155:6.3 I have called upon you to be born again, to be born of the spirit. I have called you out of the darkness of authority and the lethargy of tradition into the transcendent light of the realization of the possibility of making for yourselves the greatest discovery possible for the human soul to make — the supernal experience of finding God for yourself, in yourself, and of yourself, and of doing all this as a fact in your own personal experience. And so may you pass from death to life, from the authority of tradition to the experience of knowing God; thus will you pass from darkness to light, from a racial faith inherited to a personal faith achieved by actual experience; and thereby will you progress from a theology of mind handed down by your ancestors to a true religion of spirit which shall be built up in your souls as an eternal endowment.
(1731.2) 155:6.4 Your religion shall change from the mere intellectual belief in traditional authority to the actual experience of that living faith which is able to grasp the reality of God and all that relates to the divine spirit of the Father. The religion of the mind ties you hopelessly to the past; the religion of the spirit consists in progressive revelation and ever beckons you on toward higher and holier achievements in spiritual ideals and eternal realities.
(1731.3) 155:6.5 While the religion of authority may impart a present feeling of settled security, you pay for such a transient satisfaction the price of the loss of your spiritual freedom and religious liberty. My Father does not require of you as the price of entering the kingdom of heaven that you should force yourself to subscribe to a belief in things which are spiritually repugnant, unholy, and untruthful. It is not required of you that your own sense of mercy, justice, and truth should be outraged by submission to an outworn system of religious forms and ceremonies. The religion of the spirit leaves you forever free to follow the truth wherever the leadings of the spirit may take you. And who can judge — perhaps this spirit may have something to impart to this generation which other generations have refused to hear?
(1731.4) 155:6.6 Shame on those false religious teachers who would drag hungry souls back into the dim and distant past and there leave them! And so are these unfortunate persons doomed to become frightened by every new discovery, while they are discomfited by every new revelation of truth. The prophet who said, “He will be kept in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on God,” was not a mere intellectual believer in authoritative theology. This truth-knowing human had discovered God; he was not merely talking about God.
(1731.5) 155:6.7 I admonish you to give up the practice of always quoting the prophets of old and praising the heroes of Israel, and instead aspire to become living prophets of the Most High and spiritual heroes of the coming kingdom. To honor the God-knowing leaders of the past may indeed be worth while, but why, in so doing, should you sacrifice the supreme experience of human existence: finding God for yourselves and knowing him in your own souls?
(1732.1) 155:6.8 Every race of mankind has its own mental outlook upon human existence; therefore must the religion of the mind ever run true to these various racial viewpoints. Never can the religions of authority come to unification. Human unity and mortal brotherhood can be ach
ieved only by and through the superendowment of the religion of the spirit. Racial minds may differ, but all mankind is indwelt by the same divine and eternal spirit. The hope of human brotherhood can only be realized when, and as, the divergent mind religions of authority become impregnated with, and overshadowed by, the unifying and ennobling religion of the spirit — the religion of personal spiritual experience.(1732.2) 155:6.9 The religions of authority can only divide men and set them in conscientious array against each other; the religion of the spirit will progressively draw men together and cause them to become understandingly sympathetic with one another. The religions of authority require of men uniformity in belief, but this is impossible of realization in the present state of the world. The religion of the spirit requires only unity of experience — uniformity of destiny — making full allowance for diversity of belief. The religion of the spirit requires only uniformity of insight, not uniformity of viewpoint and outlook. The religion of the spirit does not demand uniformity of intellectual views, only unity of spirit feeling. The religions of authority crystallize into lifeless creeds; the religion of the spirit grows into the increasing joy and liberty of ennobling deeds of loving service and merciful ministration.
(1732.3) 155:6.10 But watch, lest any of you look with disdain upon the children of Abraham because they have fallen on these evil days of traditional barrenness. Our forefathers gave themselves up to the persistent and passionate search for God, and they found him as no other whole race of men have ever known him since the times of Adam, who knew much of this as he was himself a Son of God. My Father has not failed to mark the long and untiring struggle of Israel, ever since the days of Moses, to find God and to know God. For weary generations the Jews have not ceased to toil, sweat, groan, travail, and endure the sufferings and experience the sorrows of a misunderstood and despised people, all in order that they might come a little nearer the discovery of the truth about God. And, notwithstanding all the failures and falterings of Israel, our fathers progressively, from Moses to the times of Amos and Hosea, did reveal increasingly to the whole world an ever clearer and more truthful picture of the eternal God. And so was the way prepared for the still greater revelation of the Father which you have been called to share.
(1732.4) 155:6.11 Never forget there is only one adventure which is more satisfying and thrilling than the attempt to discover the will of the living God, and that is the supreme experience of honestly trying to do that divine will. And fail not to remember that the will of God can be done in any earthly occupation. Some callings are not holy and others secular. All things are sacred in the lives of those who are spirit led; that is, subordinated to truth, ennobled by love, dominated by mercy, and restrained by fairness — justice. The spirit which my Father and I shall send into the world is not only the Spirit of Truth but also the spirit of idealistic beauty.
(1732.5) 155:6.12 You must cease to seek for the word of God only on the pages of the olden records of theologic authority. Those who are born of the spirit of God shall henceforth discern the word of God regardless of whence it appears to take origin. Divine truth must not be discounted because the channel of its bestowal is apparently human. Many of your brethren have minds which accept the theory of God while they spiritually fail to realize the presence of God. And that is just the reason why I have so often taught you that the kingdom of heaven can best be realized by acquiring the spiritual attitude of a sincere child. It is not the mental immaturity of the child that I commend to you but rather the spiritual simplicity of such an easy-believing and fully-trusting little one. It is not so important that you should know about the fact of God as that you should increasingly grow in the ability to feel the presence of God.
(1733.1) 155:6.13 When you once begin to find God in your soul, presently you will begin to discover him in other men’s souls and eventually in all the creatures and creations of a mighty universe. But what chance does the Father have to appear as a God of supreme loyalties and divine ideals in the souls of men who give little or no time to the thoughtful contemplation of such eternal realities? While the mind is not the seat of the spiritual nature, it is indeed the gateway thereto.
(1733.2) 155:6.14 But do not make the mistake of trying to prove to other men that you have found God; you cannot consciously produce such valid proof, albeit there are two positive and powerful demonstrations of the fact that you are God-knowing, and they are:
(1733.3) 155:6.15 1. The fruits of the spirit of God showing forth in your daily routine life.
(1733.4) 155:6.16 2. The fact that your entire life plan furnishes positive proof that you have unreservedly risked everything you are and have on the adventure of survival after death in the pursuit of the hope of finding the God of eternity, whose presence you have foretasted in time.
(1733.5) 155:6.17 Now, mistake not, my Father will ever respond to the faintest flicker of faith. He takes note of the physical and superstitious emotions of the primitive man. And with those honest but fearful souls whose faith is so weak that it amounts to little more than an intellectual conformity to a passive attitude of assent to religions of authority, the Father is ever alert to honor and foster even all such feeble attempts to reach out for him. But you who have been called out of darkness into the light are expected to believe with a whole heart; your faith shall dominate the combined attitudes of body, mind, and spirit.
(1733.6) 155:6.18 You are my apostles, and to you religion shall not become a theologic shelter to which you may flee in fear of facing the rugged realities of spiritual progress and idealistic adventure; but rather shall your religion become the fact of real experience which testifies that God has found you, idealized, ennobled, and spiritualized you, and that you have enlisted in the eternal adventure of finding the God who has thus found and sonshipped you.
(1733.7) 155:6.19 And when Jesus had finished speaking, he beckoned to Andrew and, pointing to the west toward Phoenicia, said: “Let us be on our way.”
Colter
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 16 2013,10:05) colter Quote * The earth is old, the world had already been betrayed, fallen into darkness because the “crafty beast” joined the rebellion against God, against the Son…….by the time Adam & Eve came on their incarnate mission of redemption. where do you get all those stories
this is so bazar ,spooky ,and now you add incarnation to redemption, evolution, and I am not counting now the new 1934 revelation of the Urantia book, the devil beast is working hard to eliminate the scriptures this I can tell you ,and you are part of it ,
Terrarccia, I know that some of this is very new and strange yet some is already in the Bible fragments.Question, is the beast already evil as it is working against Gods plan?
Once we combine that fact with Cain finding a wife in a place called Nod (a Nodite settlement) the we can see that the earth was already populated.
Then when we read that Adam & Eve can no longer use the “tree of life” and they death came specifically to them and not the world…..well, a new picture starts to emerge.
Colter
Colter,
My eyes rolled at the new age words “institutionalized religion”. That is an anarchist teaching and not one from God. I am not even sure what the words “institutionalized religion” mean to you. Do mean that every man is to do as he please? The best alternative is to do as God please; and so be institutionalized in him.
I believe that I will be filled with a righteousness like God's if I persevere in seeking God's righteousness and his kingdom. Jesus sacrificed his mortal life that I will be filled.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 17 2013,02:44) Colter, My eyes rolled at the new age words “institutionalized religion”. That is an anarchist teaching and not one from God. I am not even sure what the words “institutionalized religion” mean to you. Do mean that every man is to do as he please? The best alternative is to do as God please; and so be institutionalized in him.
I believe that I will be filled with a righteousness like God's if I persevere in seeking God's righteousness and his kingdom. Jesus sacrificed his mortal life that I will be filled.
Institutionalized religion is what rejected Jesus” gospel and set out to kill him based on their infallible scripture.The RCC is an example of institutionalized religion.
Institutionalized religion replaced the kingdom of heaven idea taught and lived by Jesus wherein the individual has a personal relationship with God,
Institutionalized religion comes between the religious individual and the God they seek.
Colter
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 16 2013,20:52) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 16 2013,10:05) colter Quote * The earth is old, the world had already been betrayed, fallen into darkness because the “crafty beast” joined the rebellion against God, against the Son…….by the time Adam & Eve came on their incarnate mission of redemption. where do you get all those stories
this is so bazar ,spooky ,and now you add incarnation to redemption, evolution, and I am not counting now the new 1934 revelation of the Urantia book, the devil beast is working hard to eliminate the scriptures this I can tell you ,and you are part of it ,
Terrarccia, I know that some of this is very new and strange yet some is already in the Bible fragments.Question, is the beast already evil as it is working against Gods plan?
Once we combine that fact with Cain finding a wife in a place called Nod (a Nodite settlement) the we can see that the earth was already populated.
Then when we read that Adam & Eve can no longer use the “tree of life” and they death came specifically to them and not the world…..well, a new picture starts to emerge.
Colter
colterQuote Terrarccia, I know that some of this is very new and strange yet some is already in the Bible fragments. Question, is the beast already evil as it is working against Gods plan?
Once we combine that fact with Cain finding a wife in a place called Nod (a Nodite settlement) the we can see that the earth was already populated.
Then when we read that Adam & Eve can no longer use the “tree of life” and they death came specifically to them and not the world…..well, a new picture starts to emerge.
place called Nod (a Nodite settlement) man you have imagination,Question, is the beast already evil as it is working against Gods plan?it is obvious that Satan is at work then men was created,
BUT CAIN AS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING EXCEPT HIS OWN REJECTION FROM GOD ,AND SO THEIR HIS NO COMBINATION TO LOOK FOR .
AND AT THE TIME OF CAIN ,HIS PERENTS HAD ALREADY SINNED
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 17 2013,01:29) Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 16 2013,09:57) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 16 2013,08:26) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 16 2013,06:38) colter Quote The concept of “original sin” comes from the fact that Adam and Eve lost their own immortality because of their own person rejection of the plan of redemption for our previously fallen world. why would a perfect couple looking for REDEMPTION
Terrarcca,* The earth is old, the world had already been betrayed, fallen into darkness because the “crafty beast” joined the rebellion against God, against the Son…….by the time Adam & Eve came on their incarnate mission of redemption.
Earth 4.8 billion
The life carriers initiated life (started evolution) 550,000,000 BC
man became “will concious” 1,000,000 BC
The “brilliant angel of light” arrived roughly 500,000 BC to lead the world.
The “brilliant angel of light” rebelled, was lead into sin by Satan, Lucifer about 200,000 BC. He became “the crafty beast”
Adam and Eve incarnate 39,000 years ago
NOTE: the “crafty beast” has already embraced Sin, has already fallen, is trying to trip up Adam & Eve:
Gen. 3 “3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
You see? The beast is ALREADY evil, already on the earth and attempting to mess up the redemption mission.
Eve sins, mates with another, Cain is the bastard child of that Sin. Taunted by his half brother Able he would eventually kill Able and decide to leave the garden for the land of his fathers people, Nod.
So death came to Adam and Eve, death is normal for mortal man, death was already on the earth.
The Son of God decided that earth will be the world of his incarnation on behalf of 10,000,00 inhabited worlds “I have sheep not of this fold, I must bring them also”
1973 BC Melchizedek incarnate, makes covenant with Abram to prepare for arrival of Jesus.
After 90 years Melchizedek leaves but continues to work through the prophets.
7 BC Jesus comes, reveals the Father, makes the way of salvation more clear.
1934 Urantia revelation is given.
Colter
Colter.We dont need words,we need evidence.
Great story,but without a shred of evidence.
You are speaking of life, millions of years on earth,
but where is the evidence?Where are the cities,and the technology left behind?
Mind you;we are talking about millions of years here,
and they were still using arrowheads of stone?When was the wheel invented? Two million years ago?
Why was the camel not replaced by cars?Millions of years of population; the earth must have been over crowded. But not a shred of evidence.
No old cities found in australia or anywhere.No old multistorey concrete buildings found in arabia,nothing but camels. No highways or concrete bridges, no concrete airports.
No tombs,No steel warships,no nothing.
All we have is a story,this is not history.
wakeup.
Backward, primitive man hadn't really progressed that far up until the times of Adam, then after the “fall” all their work was for not and man toiled on for thousands of years more.Colter
Colter.Be practical:
Australia is only about 200yrs old,and look at the cities we have build.
Should nations of a million yrs old not have cities build for the population? And sanitation?
Have they been living in tents for a million yrs?wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 17 2013,20:29) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 17 2013,01:29) Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 16 2013,09:57) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 16 2013,08:26) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 16 2013,06:38) colter Quote The concept of “original sin” comes from the fact that Adam and Eve lost their own immortality because of their own person rejection of the plan of redemption for our previously fallen world. why would a perfect couple looking for REDEMPTION
Terrarcca,* The earth is old, the world had already been betrayed, fallen into darkness because the “crafty beast” joined the rebellion against God, against the Son…….by the time Adam & Eve came on their incarnate mission of redemption.
Earth 4.8 billion
The life carriers initiated life (started evolution) 550,000,000 BC
man became “will concious” 1,000,000 BC
The “brilliant angel of light” arrived roughly 500,000 BC to lead the world.
The “brilliant angel of light” rebelled, was lead into sin by Satan, Lucifer about 200,000 BC. He became “the crafty beast”
Adam and Eve incarnate 39,000 years ago
NOTE: the “crafty beast” has already embraced Sin, has already fallen, is trying to trip up Adam & Eve:
Gen. 3 “3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
You see? The beast is ALREADY evil, already on the earth and attempting to mess up the redemption mission.
Eve sins, mates with another, Cain is the bastard child of that Sin. Taunted by his half brother Able he would eventually kill Able and decide to leave the garden for the land of his fathers people, Nod.
So death came to Adam and Eve, death is normal for mortal man, death was already on the earth.
The Son of God decided that earth will be the world of his incarnation on behalf of 10,000,00 inhabited worlds “I have sheep not of this fold, I must bring them also”
1973 BC Melchizedek incarnate, makes covenant with Abram to prepare for arrival of Jesus.
After 90 years Melchizedek leaves but continues to work through the prophets.
7 BC Jesus comes, reveals the Father, makes the way of salvation more clear.
1934 Urantia revelation is given.
Colter
Colter.We dont need words,we need evidence.
Great story,but without a shred of evidence.
You are speaking of life, millions of years on earth,
but where is the evidence?Where are the cities,and the technology left behind?
Mind you;we are talking about millions of years here,
and they were still using arrowheads of stone?When was the wheel invented? Two million years ago?
Why was the camel not replaced by cars?Millions of years of population; the earth must have been over crowded. But not a shred of evidence.
No old cities found in australia or anywhere.No old multistorey concrete buildings found in arabia,nothing but camels. No highways or concrete bridges, no concrete airports.
No tombs,No steel warships,no nothing.
All we have is a story,this is not history.
wakeup.
Backward, primitive man hadn't really progressed that far up until the times of Adam, then after the “fall” all their work was for not and man toiled on for thousands of years more.Colter
Colter.Be practical:
Australia is only about 200yrs old,and look at the cities we have build.
Should nations of a million yrs old not have cities build for the population? And sanitation?
Have they been living in tents for a million yrs?wakeup.
There have been many civilizations that were once great, built great cities, had advanced culture but were overrun by inferior savages and declined for ages afterward. See the Inca's, they once had great thriving cities in South America, they all but disappeared and the jungle grew over the cities. The Persians, Greeks, Egyptians, Romans, all these cultures ebbed and flowed.BTW, the UB teaches that Adam and Eve introduced superior genes into the human race, these were the Andites. These people spread out all across the globe and influenced the rise of great cultures.
Colter
Fragments from these days are preserved in the scripture:
13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”
15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so[e]; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,[f] east of Eden.
17 Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch.
*You can see that the earth is populated.
* Cain is afraid of tribes outside the garden.
* Cain finds a wife in Nod
The UB reveals that Cains real father was a Nodite, that was Eves sin, that was the real trick of the crafty beast, to convince Eve to lay with one who was “pleasing to the eye” in order to insert her own will into world saving. She was sincere, but it was a sin, they had been warned to follow Gods will, Gods plan for rehabilitation of the earth.
6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.
*This ancient fragment is in reality the story of Eve having sex with Cains real Father. Once Edam realized what happened (fearing that he and Eve would be separated) Adam deliberately had sex with another, deliberately committed sin that he might share in Eves fate, remain with her. It was for the Love of Eve that Adam shared in her punishment; loosing immortality.
*The premature introduction of Eves genes into the human race brought “pain” to childbearing.
16 To the woman he said,
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.Colter
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 16 2013,23:06) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 17 2013,02:44) Colter, My eyes rolled at the new age words “institutionalized religion”. That is an anarchist teaching and not one from God. I am not even sure what the words “institutionalized religion” mean to you. Do mean that every man is to do as he please? The best alternative is to do as God please; and so be institutionalized in him.
I believe that I will be filled with a righteousness like God's if I persevere in seeking God's righteousness and his kingdom. Jesus sacrificed his mortal life that I will be filled.
Institutionalized religion is what rejected Jesus” gospel and set out to kill him based on their infallible scripture.The RCC is an example of institutionalized religion.
Institutionalized religion replaced the kingdom of heaven idea taught and lived by Jesus wherein the individual has a personal relationship with God,
Institutionalized religion comes between the religious individual and the God they seek.
Colter
Colter,You are still talking a form of Chistian Anarchism.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 18 2013,01:21) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 16 2013,23:06) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 17 2013,02:44) Colter, My eyes rolled at the new age words “institutionalized religion”. That is an anarchist teaching and not one from God. I am not even sure what the words “institutionalized religion” mean to you. Do mean that every man is to do as he please? The best alternative is to do as God please; and so be institutionalized in him.
I believe that I will be filled with a righteousness like God's if I persevere in seeking God's righteousness and his kingdom. Jesus sacrificed his mortal life that I will be filled.
Institutionalized religion is what rejected Jesus” gospel and set out to kill him based on their infallible scripture.The RCC is an example of institutionalized religion.
Institutionalized religion replaced the kingdom of heaven idea taught and lived by Jesus wherein the individual has a personal relationship with God,
Institutionalized religion comes between the religious individual and the God they seek.
Colter
Colter,You are still talking a form of Chistian Anarchism.
“When theology masters religion, religion dies; it becomes a doctrine instead of a life”.UBKerwin, one of the reasons that the “religious authority” of Jesus' day did not believe him is that they could not imagine people having a personal relationship with God on their own as Jesus taught.
It is for this reason that people actually prefer ritual, dogma, doctrine, and creeds over genuine living faith in the power presence of the Father.
Micah saw it, for he was progressive and Liberal like Jesus. He to was rejected like the other prophets who the orthodox didn't like:
Micah 4
King James Version (KJV)
4 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the Lord of hosts hath spoken it.
5 For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the Lord our God for ever and ever.
Caino
Colter,
Quote Micah saw it, for he was progressive and Liberal like Jesus. You can't get more conservative than God who has been around since before time began. Satan is the progressive one. The religious authorities were making changes and Jesus rebukes them for doing so.
He does not support anarchy but rather calls all to unite in doing what is loving; the way God is always commanding us from the beginning.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 18 2013,04:06) Colter, Quote Micah saw it, for he was progressive and Liberal like Jesus. You can't get more conservative than God who has been around since before time began. Satan is the progressive one. The religious authorities were making changes and Jesus rebukes them for doing so.
He does not support anarchy but rather calls all to unite in doing what is loving; the way God is always commanding us from the beginning.
So you would have rejected Jesus on the same grounds had you been a devout Jew using the scripture?If not why? Jesus was very liberal, he was no reformer of Judaism nor a protector of the status quote.
And their is only one God!, Satan was never a God,
Colter
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