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This is a question about Colossians 1:19.
It seems that the original text (from my understanding) says, “For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell.”
The words “of the deity” or “of God” or “of the Godhead” were added later by translators because the verse seemed to not make sense as it was.
So what is the point?
I've heard this interpretation of the original text: That the word “fullness” indicates “everything.” All fullness. Time, space, matter, everything. Even the entire Godhead. Therefore, the Father and Holy Spirit chose also to be contained in Jesus. That they chose to dwell in him.
Thoughts on the history of this verse and/or this interpretation?
Quote (frankandcathy @ June 28 2009,16:14) This is a question about Colossians 1:19. It seems that the original text (from my understanding) says, “For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell.”
The words “of the deity” or “of God” or “of the Godhead” were added later by translators because the verse seemed to not make sense as it was.
So what is the point?
I've heard this interpretation of the original text: That the word “fullness” indicates “everything.” All fullness. Time, space, matter, everything. Even the entire Godhead. Therefore, the Father and Holy Spirit chose also to be contained in Jesus. That they chose to dwell in him.
Thoughts on the history of this verse and/or this interpretation?
This is a problem because of trinitarian thinking because if all 3 persons are equal and all are God it would not matter if it pleased the Father or not because they are never seperate and there would be no choice a 3 in 1 God would always be 3 in 1.Now, let me show you something. If all the fulness of the “Godhead” dwelled in Christ then all of God “died” on the cross and yet the scriptures say that God raised Christ from the dead but if all of God was in Christ then what part of God still alive to raise Christ?
So only 1/3 of God died for your sins or did the fulness of God die for your sins and if so who could raise from the dead the fulness of God?
Ok bod (I sure hope that's ok), I think the other thread might address some of this with the mutual submission, etc. however….
I was just thinking of this concept. Was ALL of Jesus in bodily form? I was thinking that we, as Christians, are told that WHILE we dwell on Earth in bodily form, are also seated in heavenly realms with God. So….could that have been true for Jesus as well? Why or why not?
Thoughts?
Quote (frankandcathy @ June 28 2009,16:14) This is a question about Colossians 1:19. It seems that the original text (from my understanding) says, “For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell.”
The words “of the deity” or “of God” or “of the Godhead” were added later by translators because the verse seemed to not make sense as it was.
So what is the point?
I've heard this interpretation of the original text: That the word “fullness” indicates “everything.” All fullness. Time, space, matter, everything. Even the entire Godhead. Therefore, the Father and Holy Spirit chose also to be contained in Jesus. That they chose to dwell in him.
Thoughts on the history of this verse and/or this interpretation?
By the way the scriptures say the the heavens and earth cannot contain God:1 Kings 8 (King James Version)
27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?
2 Chronicles 2:5-7 (King James Version)
6 But who is able to build him an house, seeing the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain him? who am I then, that I should build him an house, save only to burn sacrifice before him?
2 Chronicles 6 (King James Version)
18 But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built!
Jesus was filled with the spirit of God not that the spirit was exhausted but that Christ was full. Consider a glass of water the glass can be full of water but the source of the water might be an ocean therefor his cup runneth over(Praise God Almighty)
Bod: Real quick, what is your take on the spirit of God? Do you think that is synonymous with the Holy Spirit? Do you see the Holy spirit as a person or an essence or what? I don't think I can rightly think about your answer until I understand how you think about the spirit. I myself and wondering.
And what do you think about Jesus in bodily form? Do you think he had ONLY a bodily form before creation or that he only got that after he came to Earth? Did any part of him still dwell in heaven with God as we are told that we do?
Thanks!
Quote (frankandcathy @ June 28 2009,16:57) Bod: Real quick, what is your take on the spirit of God? Do you think that is synonymous with the Holy Spirit? Do you see the Holy spirit as a person or an essence or what? I don't think I can rightly think about your answer until I understand how you think about the spirit. I myself and wondering. And what do you think about Jesus in bodily form? Do you think he had ONLY a bodily form before creation or that he only got that after he came to Earth? Did any part of him still dwell in heaven with God as we are told that we do?
Thanks!
The Quran explains it best.(1) O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity” : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)Regarding the Spirit of God there is no spirit that God is not God of. So, whether God gives of his own spirit or he creates a spirit is inconsequential. The fact is a Holy Spirit is a spirit set aside for a special purpose.
Bod: Well, I think we might be on a different page because I'm not accustomed to using the Quran to validate or invalidate my view of Christ…I'm not sure how to address that. Let's see…I guess where it says that far exalted is He above having a son seems to completely contradict the scriptures (trinitarian or not) unless I'm reading that wrong.
I think I see what you're saying about Spirit. But what about the concept that the Holy Spirit has a personality? As in “do not grieve the Holy Spirit?”
Also, tell me what you think about the bodily form of Christ. “Do you think he had ONLY a bodily form before creation or that he only got that after he came to Earth? Did any part of him still dwell in heaven with God as we are told that we do?”
Thanks for your patience. I'm gonna toddle off to bed for the night but will check back again sometime tomorrow.
Hi F+c,
Do you know of any scripture that says The Father and the Spirit dwell in Jesus….. or anyone?You won't.
But you will find “the Spirit of your Father” MT 10.20
Why?
Because the Spirit is the Spirit of God and how God, who is in heaven, manifests in his creation.
Quote (frankandcathy @ June 28 2009,16:14) This is a question about Colossians 1:19. It seems that the original text (from my understanding) says, “For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell.”
The words “of the deity” or “of God” or “of the Godhead” were added later by translators because the verse seemed to not make sense as it was.
So what is the point?
I've heard this interpretation of the original text: That the word “fullness” indicates “everything.” All fullness. Time, space, matter, everything. Even the entire Godhead. Therefore, the Father and Holy Spirit chose also to be contained in Jesus. That they chose to dwell in him.
Thoughts on the history of this verse and/or this interpretation?
None of the translations I have say “Godhead” in Colossians 1:19. But the word is found in 2:9,Quote For in Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily Let the anti-trinitarians here read this and rejoice.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ June 29 2009,05:00) Quote (frankandcathy @ June 28 2009,16:14) This is a question about Colossians 1:19. It seems that the original text (from my understanding) says, “For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell.”
The words “of the deity” or “of God” or “of the Godhead” were added later by translators because the verse seemed to not make sense as it was.
So what is the point?
I've heard this interpretation of the original text: That the word “fullness” indicates “everything.” All fullness. Time, space, matter, everything. Even the entire Godhead. Therefore, the Father and Holy Spirit chose also to be contained in Jesus. That they chose to dwell in him.
Thoughts on the history of this verse and/or this interpretation?
None of the translations I have say “Godhead” in Colossians 1:19. But the word is found in 2:9,Quote For in Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily Let the anti-trinitarians here read this and rejoice.
thinker
thinkerGive it up, your picture shows were you're coming from.
Georg
Hi F+C,
You say
” Even the entire Godhead. Therefore, the Father and Holy Spirit chose also to be contained in Jesus. “GODHEAD is only found in the KJV.
It is used 3 times and each has a different greek base and different meaning.
None of the words mean TRINITY.
You have adopted a common traditional folly.
Quote (thethinker @ June 29 2009,05:00) Quote (frankandcathy @ June 28 2009,16:14) This is a question about Colossians 1:19. It seems that the original text (from my understanding) says, “For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell.”
The words “of the deity” or “of God” or “of the Godhead” were added later by translators because the verse seemed to not make sense as it was.
So what is the point?
I've heard this interpretation of the original text: That the word “fullness” indicates “everything.” All fullness. Time, space, matter, everything. Even the entire Godhead. Therefore, the Father and Holy Spirit chose also to be contained in Jesus. That they chose to dwell in him.
Thoughts on the history of this verse and/or this interpretation?
None of the translations I have say “Godhead” in Colossians 1:19. But the word is found in 2:9,Quote For in Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily Let the anti-trinitarians here read this and rejoice.
thinker
So, if the fulness of the Godhead dwelled in Jesus bodily then wouldn't that mean that ALL of God died on the cross and yet he called out to GOD?So you believe that after God cried to himself not to let himself be killed God decided to let himself fully die and then he asked himself why he forsook himself and when he was raised from the dead he said he was not yet ascended to his God?
What God was he not ascended to when all of the fulness of the Godhead dwelled in him?
bodhitharta said:
Quote So, if the fulness of the Godhead dwelled in Jesus bodily then wouldn't that mean that ALL of God died on the cross and yet he called out to GOD? So you believe that after God cried to himself not to let himself be killed God decided to let himself fully die and then he asked himself why he forsook himself and when he was raised from the dead he said he was not yet ascended to his God?
What God was he not ascended to when all of the fulness of the Godhead dwelled in him?
bd,
I give you the inspired Greek text itself,Quote ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς, The word I highlighted in bold is “theotes” which is translated “Godhead” or “divinity.” Paul said that in Christ “dwelt all the fulness of divinity bodily.”
This thread says that Colossians 1:19 is mistranslated and wrongfully has the word “Godhead.” None of the translations I possesss have the word “Godhead” in 1:19. Something smells fishy. The word “theotes” (Godhead) is present in 2:9. If you don't like this verse that's fine. But don't deny what it says.
thinker
Quote (Cindy @ June 29 2009,07:10) Quote (thethinker @ June 29 2009,05:00) Quote (frankandcathy @ June 28 2009,16:14) This is a question about Colossians 1:19. It seems that the original text (from my understanding) says, “For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell.”
The words “of the deity” or “of God” or “of the Godhead” were added later by translators because the verse seemed to not make sense as it was.
So what is the point?
I've heard this interpretation of the original text: That the word “fullness” indicates “everything.” All fullness. Time, space, matter, everything. Even the entire Godhead. Therefore, the Father and Holy Spirit chose also to be contained in Jesus. That they chose to dwell in him.
Thoughts on the history of this verse and/or this interpretation?
None of the translations I have say “Godhead” in Colossians 1:19. But the word is found in 2:9,Quote For in Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily Let the anti-trinitarians here read this and rejoice.
thinker
thinkerGive it up, your picture shows were you're coming from.
Georg
Georg,
Your method is old. If you don't like the message you attack the messenger. Could you try to rise above that and give a rational defense for your beliefs?Paul said to Timothy,
Quote Be ready always to give an answer to every man for the reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear. thinker
Which translation has the word godhead in Colossians 1:19? I checked several and found none that has it.
Quote (thethinker @ July 01 2009,03:36) Quote (Cindy @ June 29 2009,07:10) Quote (thethinker @ June 29 2009,05:00) Quote (frankandcathy @ June 28 2009,16:14) This is a question about Colossians 1:19. It seems that the original text (from my understanding) says, “For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell.”
The words “of the deity” or “of God” or “of the Godhead” were added later by translators because the verse seemed to not make sense as it was.
So what is the point?
I've heard this interpretation of the original text: That the word “fullness” indicates “everything.” All fullness. Time, space, matter, everything. Even the entire Godhead. Therefore, the Father and Holy Spirit chose also to be contained in Jesus. That they chose to dwell in him.
Thoughts on the history of this verse and/or this interpretation?
None of the translations I have say “Godhead” in Colossians 1:19. But the word is found in 2:9,Quote For in Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily Let the anti-trinitarians here read this and rejoice.
thinker
thinkerGive it up, your picture shows were you're coming from.
Georg
Georg,
Your method is old. If you don't like the message you attack the messenger. Could you try to rise above that and give a rational defense for your beliefs?Paul said to Timothy,
Quote Be ready always to give an answer to every man for the reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear. thinker
That's odd you don't follow your own advice, but I am confident that as you give it you are reminded of how you yourself should respond.You have not been answering my questions or responding to the proofs you asked me to give and yet have not responded back, after I delivered the goods to you.
Quote (thethinker @ July 01 2009,03:30) bodhitharta said: Quote So, if the fulness of the Godhead dwelled in Jesus bodily then wouldn't that mean that ALL of God died on the cross and yet he called out to GOD? So you believe that after God cried to himself not to let himself be killed God decided to let himself fully die and then he asked himself why he forsook himself and when he was raised from the dead he said he was not yet ascended to his God?
What God was he not ascended to when all of the fulness of the Godhead dwelled in him?
bd,
I give you the inspired Greek text itself,Quote ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς, The word I highlighted in bold is “theotes” which is translated “Godhead” or “divinity.” Paul said that in Christ “dwelt all the fulness of divinity bodily.”
This thread says that Colossians 1:19 is mistranslated and wrongfully has the word “Godhead.” None of the translations I possesss have the word “Godhead” in 1:19. Something smells fishy. The word “theotes” (Godhead) is present in 2:9. If you don't like this verse that's fine. But don't deny what it says.
thinker
Hi TT,
So God was in Christ……. Christ was not that God.
He was not within himself was he?
FOUR?Quote (frankandcathy @ June 28 2009,17:43) Bod: Well, I think we might be on a different page because I'm not accustomed to using the Quran to validate or invalidate my view of Christ…I'm not sure how to address that. Let's see…I guess where it says that far exalted is He above having a son seems to completely contradict the scriptures (trinitarian or not) unless I'm reading that wrong. I think I see what you're saying about Spirit. But what about the concept that the Holy Spirit has a personality? As in “do not grieve the Holy Spirit?”
Also, tell me what you think about the bodily form of Christ. “Do you think he had ONLY a bodily form before creation or that he only got that after he came to Earth? Did any part of him still dwell in heaven with God as we are told that we do?”
Thanks for your patience. I'm gonna toddle off to bed for the night but will check back again sometime tomorrow.
Hi frankandcathy:How do you as a Trinitarian gather that the Holy Spirit is a “Third person in the Godhead” when there is the following scripture that tells us about the Holy Spirit:
Quote 1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.Plain and simple, the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit and not a “Third Person”.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ July 01 2009,12:55) Quote (frankandcathy @ June 28 2009,17:43) Bod: Well, I think we might be on a different page because I'm not accustomed to using the Quran to validate or invalidate my view of Christ…I'm not sure how to address that. Let's see…I guess where it says that far exalted is He above having a son seems to completely contradict the scriptures (trinitarian or not) unless I'm reading that wrong. I think I see what you're saying about Spirit. But what about the concept that the Holy Spirit has a personality? As in “do not grieve the Holy Spirit?”
Also, tell me what you think about the bodily form of Christ. “Do you think he had ONLY a bodily form before creation or that he only got that after he came to Earth? Did any part of him still dwell in heaven with God as we are told that we do?”
Thanks for your patience. I'm gonna toddle off to bed for the night but will check back again sometime tomorrow.
Hi frankandcathy:How do you as a Trinitarian gather that the Holy Spirit is a “Third person in the Godhead” when there is the following scripture that tells us about the Holy Spirit:
Quote 1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.Plain and simple, the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit and not a “Third Person”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Amen, Marty!
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