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Hi Is 1.18,
Jesus is the Son of YHWH, not his own Father.
Yes now all men reborn in Christ can share the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of truth, the Spirit of God.Why would the toe be different from the head of the body?
Quote Hi Is 1.18,
YHWH or YHWH is never applied to Jesus Christ in the bible.
You have speculated because of associations and inferences that this so so but show me where
IT IS WRITTEN.
Its written here:Zechariah 14
1Behold, the day of the LORD [YHWH] cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD [YHWH] go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9And the LORD [YHWH] shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD [YHWH], and his name one.
10All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD [YHWH] will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD [YHWH]shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.We are told several times in NT scripture that Christ is coming to reign as King, and that we will in fact reign with Him (2 Tim 2:11-13). You know that's true. No where in NT scripture are we told The Father is coming….
Gotta go. Chat more later…..
Hi Is 1.18,
Do you really believe that whem the King returns he will be alone? Do you really believe that he is not in the Father and the Father is not in him? You are slow to hear the words of the Master.He he….the Father is in me too – but that doesn't qualify me to be called YHWH….
Quote You are slow to hear the words of the Master.
I actually found this comment a little to personal. I am only trying to reason with you, as you do in message boards. I don't think we need to go there….Hi Is 1.18
If you do not like me saying it then hear again the words from the Master
Jn 14.10
“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me?
The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own initiative, but the Father abiding in me does His works.
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me; otherwise believe on account of the works themselves”
v 20
“In that day you shall know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you”
cf Acts 10.38Jesus was never called YHWH.
Is 1:18 wrote:
Quote Quote
1 Timothy 6:13
“I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate… .”You have said in the past the “trinity model” fits scripture best. Does it fit this scripture best? What does your logic tell you?
He he….
If this one verse was all the data we had on the nature and identity of Yahshua then I might have to re-evaluate my Christology -yes. I say 'might' because I don't actually see an ontological contradistinction being drawn between the Father and the Son. If the passage read:“I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who is Not God and does not give life to all things (My insertion) and witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate… .”
Then I would have to rethink things. Naturally.
I appreciate your earnest explanation. However, I would disagree with you about the significance of this single sentence. I will give you an example to show you what I mean.
Example: I ask you in the presence of the President, and in the hearing of John Smith, to swear that your testimony is true.
In the sentence above, is there any doubt that John Smith is not the President? Simple grammar dictates that the President is one and John Smith is another. Wouldn't you agree?
This kind of distinction between “God” and “Jesus” is seen in every single book of the New Testament. Now, if the New Testament writers understood, and believed in, a Trinity, why would they construct such grammatically confusing sentences, whereby they describe one person as God and “Jesus” as a separate person? (Trinitarians invented the terms “God the Son” and “God the Holy Spirit” to help combat this problem!) The New Testament writers always use “God” as a reference to a person and never as a reference to an entity composed of more than one person. This fact alone makes the trinity doctrine extrabiblical. Yet, you say that the trinity doctrine fits scripture best. How can this be?
Hi WIT and Is 1.18,
Jesus went up the mountain with Peter and James and John.
Should we believe this?
Should we not speculate that James and Peter were other names for John, and only John went up the mountain with Jesus?
Since there is no verse that states John was not also Peter and not also James that conclusion has as much validity as yours Is 1.18.
The point is if we base our faith on what is not denied we can believe anything.
Hi WIT
Quote I appreciate your earnest explanation.
I’m stunned. You wrote something to me that vaguely resembled a friendly remark…..
Quote However, I would disagree with you about the significance of this single sentence. I will give you an example to show you what I mean. Example: I ask you in the presence of the President, and in the hearing of John Smith, to swear that your testimony is true.
In the sentence above, is there any doubt that John Smith is not the President? Simple grammar dictates that the President is one and John Smith is another. Wouldn't you agree?
I simply pointed out that a contra-distinction in ontology was not explicitly or implicitly expressed in the verse you quoted to me. Which is true, and I don't see how your reasoning challenges this. The writer certainly could have applied “simple grammar” to make a distinction of this nature, if that was his intention. Obviously it wasn’t.Quote This kind of distinction between “God” and “Jesus” is seen in every single book of the New Testament. Now, if the New Testament writers understood, and believed in, a Trinity, why would they construct such grammatically confusing sentences, whereby they describe one person as God and “Jesus” as a separate person?
I would argue the opposite is true. Firstly, the NT writers conveyed in very explicit and unambiguous language that both the the persons of Yahshua and His Father ARE in fact ‘God’. The NT authors obviously needed to employ some literary mechanism to differentiate the individual persons of the Father and Son, or their statements would have been grossly confusing to their readers. If 'theos' was used for each within the same sentence, how would readers have possibly determined which person was being referred to, and when? Kurios was usually used to denote Yahshua and theos was usually used to denote the Father. But each term wasn't exclusively applied to only one of these persons, and I see no reason to assign a weaker connotation to 'Lord'. Luke, for instance, showed a remarkable ambiguity in the use of this term relative to Jesus and God the Father. And, notably, 'kurios' was used in all the NT quotations of Deut 6:4-5 (Matt 22:37, Mk 12:29-30, Lk 10:27), where the it was directly substituted for the tetragamatron – so on that evidence alone I would find it difficult to accept that 'kurios' is a weaker appellative than 'theos'.Quote (Trinitarians invented the terms “God the Son” and “God the Holy Spirit” to help combat this problem!). The New Testament writers always use “God” as a reference to a person and never as a reference to an entity composed of more than one person. This fact alone makes the trinity doctrine extrabiblical.
I wonder if you can categorically prove to me that every every time theos is used it never refers to an “entity composed of more than one person”? I am seeing a lot of these emphatic statements lately, but where is the proof? Also regarding your point about the redundancy of trinitarians formulating extra-biblical terminology to define what you perceive to be unbiblical concepts, I personally don't have a problem with this practice. The word 'grandfather' is not found anywhere in the Bible, but that doesn’t mean we can’t invoke a title to cover the biblical-demonstrated concept of grandfatherlyness (I think I made up a new word then!). Abraham was, after all, the 'grandfather' of Jacob. If Yahshua is called “God the Son” it's because the Bible teaches us that He is both a ‘Son’ and 'God' – therefore this description is not extra-biblical in nature.Quote Yet, you say that the trinity doctrine fits scripture best. How can this be?
I'm writing a post to Artizan007 expanding on my statements to you. Hopefully I can better explain to you why I believe what I do. If not, oh well…..Blessings friend
Hi Is 1.18,
What about “god the Satan”
Using your own logic Satan is a god and thus such a term is “biblical”
Nonsense.….Oh I see where you are coming from. Satan is described as “god of this world”. There is a qualifier in this title. Therefore, 'theos' in this instance is connotative of his temporal authority over the world (Matt 4:8-9), and does not imply divinity at all. There is one true God, and all other 'gods' are 'false gods':
Galatians 4:8-9
8Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?Also see: Deu 32:21, 1 Sa 21:21; Ps 96:5; Isa 37:19; 41:23-24, 29; Jer 2:11; 5:7; 16:20; 1 Cr 8:4; 10:19-20…
So “god the satan” isn't appropriate. Although “god of this world satan” is….
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 24 2006,23:28) Hi WIT and Is 1.18, Jesus went up the mountain with Peter and James and John.
Should we believe this?
Should we not speculate that James and Peter were other names for John, and only John went up the mountain with Jesus?
Since there is no verse that states John was not also Peter and not also James that conclusion has as much validity as yours Is 1.18.
The point is if we base our faith on what is not denied we can believe anything.
My faith is not based on “what is not denied”. It's based on positive evidence for something, not the absence of evidence against something else.Why would you make a statement like this?….
Yes Is 1:18, but how could someone who is mighty be equal with someone who is 43 times described as Almighty?
Jesus = Jehovah?
“MIGHTY” a few times = “MIGHTY” a few times + “ALMIGHTY” 43 times.
Just kidding. We can stop this now.
david
Quote My faith is not based on “what is not denied”. It's based on positive evidence for something, not the absence of evidence against something else.
I, of course, meant “…absence of evidence for something else”….I got my mixed words up……Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 25 2006,08:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 24 2006,23:28) Hi WIT and Is 1.18, Jesus went up the mountain with Peter and James and John.
Should we believe this?
Should we not speculate that James and Peter were other names for John, and only John went up the mountain with Jesus?
Since there is no verse that states John was not also Peter and not also James that conclusion has as much validity as yours Is 1.18.
The point is if we base our faith on what is not denied we can believe anything.
My faith is not based on “what is not denied”. It's based on positive evidence for something, not the absence of evidence against something else.Why would you make a statement like this?….
Hi is 1.18,
Because of your statements asking people to show you written in the bible something is not so and you will believe it.
That is not how to study the bible.Trinity is not written in the bible.
It is also not written in the bible that there is no trinity.So if you were sent by God to preach to those in Afghanistan or Mongolia would you start with teaching them about trinity?
Would that be being a good servant of God if you did to teach what is not written?
Is it not rather the type of speculation you might share with those of intellectual bent?
Hi Nick,
Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say to you: BUT YOU CANNOT BEAR THEM NOW.
Joh 16:13 But when he, the SPIRIT OF TRUTH, is come, HE WILL TEACH YOU ALL TRUTH. For he shall not speak of himself: but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak. And the things that are to come, he shall shew you.
Joh 16:14 He shall GLORIFY ME: FOR HE SHALL RECEIVE OF MINE, AND SHALL SHEW IT UNTO YOU.
The spirit has come and has taught all truth. This was to glorify Jesus as he proclaimed!
HOW?
Jesus thought there needed to be an earthly head of the Church, same as Davidic Kingdom in the Old Testament.
Isa 22:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I WILL CALL MY SERVANT Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:
Isa 22:21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I WILL COMMIT THY GOVERNMENT INTO HIS HAND: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
Isa 22:22 And the KEY OF THE HOUSE OF DAVID will I lay upon his shoulder; SO HE SHALL OPEN, AND NONE SHALL SHUT; and HE SHALL SHUT, and NONE SHALL OPEN.
Isa 22:23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house.FULLFILLED
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I SAY ALSO UNTO THEE, That THOU ART PETER, and UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH; and THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT.
Mat 16:19 And I will give UNTO THEE THE KEYS OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN: and WHATSOEVER thou shalt BIND ON EARTH shall BE BOUND IN HEAVEN: and WHATSOEVER thou shalt LOOSE ON EARTH shall BE LOOSED IN HEAVEN.WOW what a promise, and how true the word is.
But caution!!!!! Jesus tells his disciples to do what these Pharisees teach but don’t do what they do. This is because they have authority they sit in Moses seat.
Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.This is the same with the NEW seat of authority that Christ has left his Church.
Jesus quotes almost verbatum from this passage in Isaiah, and so it is clear what he has in mind. He is raising Peter up as a father figure to the household of faith (Is. 22:21), to lead them and guide the flock (John 21:15-17). This authority of the prime minister under the king was passed on from one man to another down through the ages by the giving of the keys, which were worn on the shoulder as a sign of authority. Likewise, the authority of Peter has been passed down for 2000 years.
Has Jesus given the authority to bind and loosen to individuals or his body his Church?
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Mat 18:18 VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, WHATSOEVER YE SHALL BIND ON EARTH SHALL BE BOUND IN HEAVEN: AND WHATSOEVER YE SHALL LOOSE ON EARTH SHALL BE LOOSED IN HEAVEN.Joh 20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost.
Joh 20:23 WHOSE SINS YOU SHALL FORGIVE, THEY ARE FORGIVEN THEM: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.I see where you are coming from, you don’t trust any man made Church, I don’t either. I trust in Jesus words of starting a Church.
I have total faith in the words of the only true Son of God who has ALWAYS been the Son of God WHO IS ALSO one with his Father.The Father is one with the Holy Spirit that lives in us and he is one with his Son who is seated at His right hand. THEY ARE ONE the word is truth, they can not be separated this is unity this is why it is called the trinity TRI-UNITY. This is why when God says there is NO OTHER there is NO OTHER BECAUSE JESUS IS ONE WITH THE FATHER.
Joh 1:2 THE SAME was in the beginning with God.
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, FATHER, ART IN ME, AND I IN THEE, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE:Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I AM IN THE FATHER, AND THE FATHER IN ME? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the FATHER THAT DWELLETH IN ME, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I AM IN THE FATHER, AND THE FATHER IN ME: or else believe me for the very works' sake.Joh 16:15 ALL THINGS THAT THE FATHER HATH ARE MINE: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Joh 17:10 And all MINE ARE THINE, AND THINE ARE MINE; and I am glorified in them.
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may BE ONE, AS WE ARE.Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with THINE OWN SELF with the glory which I HAD with thee before the world was.
Yes I believe he is the Son of God and always has been.
But do you believe he is ALSO one with his Father?Joh 10:30 I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE.
THIS IS WHY JESUS IS
WITH GOD
AND WAS GOD.Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was WITH GOD: and the Word WAS GOD.
THERE IS NO OTHER GOD
NO ONE BESIDE HIM
NO ONE LIKENED TO HIMI believe every word in the bible is absolute truth the word never contradicts itself, its just that our small minds can’t understand it, so we try and add our own spin to what it says.
My friend remember we all can be blinded in many ways its not just denominations that can blind us but also our prejudges too. This makes us read what we want to read and not read what we don’t believe.
Example, what teaching do most people over look!
Baptism is truth AND imposition of hands is truth AND resurrection of the dead is truth AND eternal judgment is truth.Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms AND IMPOSITION OF HANDS, and of the resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Act 8:17 Then they LAID THEIR HANDS UPON THEM: and they received the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that, BY THE IMPOSITION OF THE HANDS OF THE APOSTLES, the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
1Ti 5:22 IMPOSE NOT HANDS LIGHTLY upon any man, neither be partaker of other men's sins. Keep thyself chaste.
2Ti 1:6 For which cause I admonish thee that thou stir up the grace of God WHICH IS IN THEE BY THE IMPOSITION OF MY HANDS.
Act 14:23 And when they HAD ORDAINED them ELDERS [pres-boo'-ter-os] in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.
1Ti 4:14 Neglect not the grace that is in thee, WHICH WAS GIVEN THEE BY PROPHECY, with IMPOSITION OF THE HANDS OF THE PRIESTHOOD.IMPOSITION OF THE HANDS
OF THE PRIESTHOODG4244
πρεσβυτέριον
presbuterion
pres-boo-ter'-ee-on
Neuter of a presumed derivative of G4245; the order of elders, that is, (specifically) Israelite Sanhedrim or Christian “presbytery”: – (estate of) elder (-s), presbytery.I agree we should not follow man made religions but I also believe we should not follow self man made non-religion religions.
I agree with many of your beliefs Nick, but there is no denying that Jesus is one with his Father.
Again Yes I believe that Jesus has always been the Son of God. He is with his Father
and was one with his Father!God Bless
Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 25 2006,08:29) -20… So “god the satan” isn't appropriate. Although “god of this world satan” is….
Hi Is 1.18,
You can accept it with a qualification?
But “god of this world” only occurs once in the bible.How many times does
“The Son of God appear in the bible”?
Then to be consistent should you not write instead of
“God the Son”
“God the Son of God”?
just to remind yourself that he is not the God he is a Son of?Quote (Scripture Seeker @ May 25 2006,12:57) Hi Nick, Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say to you: BUT YOU CANNOT BEAR THEM NOW.
Joh 16:13 But when he, the SPIRIT OF TRUTH, is come, HE WILL TEACH YOU ALL TRUTH. For he shall not speak of himself: but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak. And the things that are to come, he shall shew you.
Joh 16:14 He shall GLORIFY ME: FOR HE SHALL RECEIVE OF MINE, AND SHALL SHEW IT UNTO YOU.
The spirit has come and has taught all truth. This was to glorify Jesus as he proclaimed!
HOW?
Jesus thought there needed to be an earthly head of the Church, same as Davidic Kingdom in the Old Testament.
Isa 22:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I WILL CALL MY SERVANT Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:
Isa 22:21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I WILL COMMIT THY GOVERNMENT INTO HIS HAND: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
Isa 22:22 And the KEY OF THE HOUSE OF DAVID will I lay upon his shoulder; SO HE SHALL OPEN, AND NONE SHALL SHUT; and HE SHALL SHUT, and NONE SHALL OPEN.
Isa 22:23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house.FULLFILLED
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I SAY ALSO UNTO THEE, That THOU ART PETER, and UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH; and THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT.
Mat 16:19 And I will give UNTO THEE THE KEYS OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN: and WHATSOEVER thou shalt BIND ON EARTH shall BE BOUND IN HEAVEN: and WHATSOEVER thou shalt LOOSE ON EARTH shall BE LOOSED IN HEAVEN.WOW what a promise, and how true the word is.
But caution!!!!! Jesus tells his disciples to do what these Pharisees teach but don’t do what they do. This is because they have authority they sit in Moses seat.
Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.This is the same with the NEW seat of authority that Christ has left his Church.
Jesus quotes almost verbatum from this passage in Isaiah, and so it is clear what he has in mind. He is raising Peter up as a father figure to the household of faith (Is. 22:21), to lead them and guide the flock (John 21:15-17). This authority of the prime minister under the king was passed on from one man to another down through the ages by the giving of the keys, which were worn on the shoulder as a sign of authority. Likewise, the authority of Peter has been passed down for 2000 years.
Has Jesus given the authority to bind and loosen to individuals or his body his Church?
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Mat 18:18 VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, WHATSOEVER YE SHALL BIND ON EARTH SHALL BE BOUND IN HEAVEN: AND WHATSOEVER YE SHALL LOOSE ON EARTH SHALL BE LOOSED IN HEAVEN.Joh 20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost.
Joh 20:23 WHOSE SINS YOU SHALL FORGIVE, THEY ARE FORGIVEN THEM: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.I see where you are coming from, you don’t trust any man made Church, I don’t either. I trust in Jesus words of starting a Church.
I have total faith in the words of the only true Son of God who has ALWAYS been the Son of God WHO IS ALSO one with his Father.The Father is one with the Holy Spirit that lives in us and he is one with his Son who is seated at His right hand. THEY ARE ONE the word is truth, they can not be separated this is unity this is why it is called the trinity TRI-UNITY. This is why when God says there is NO OTHER there is NO OTHER BECAUSE JESUS IS ONE WITH THE FATHER.
Joh 1:2 THE SAME was in the beginning with God.
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, FATHER, ART IN ME, AND I IN THEE, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE:Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I AM IN THE FATHER, AND THE FATHER IN ME? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the FATHER THAT DWELLETH IN ME, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I AM IN THE FATHER, AND THE FATHER IN ME: or else believe me for the very works' sake.Joh 16:15 ALL THINGS THAT THE FATHER HATH ARE MINE: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Joh 17:10 And all MINE ARE THINE, AND THINE ARE MINE; and I am glorified in them.
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may BE ONE, AS WE ARE.Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with THINE OWN SELF with the glory which I HAD with thee before the world was.
Yes I believe he is the Son of God and always has been.
But do you believe he is ALSO one with his Father?Joh 10:30 I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE.
THIS IS WHY JESUS IS
WITH GOD
AND WAS GOD.Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was WITH GOD: and the Word WAS GOD.
THERE IS NO OTHER GOD
NO ONE BESIDE HIM
NO ONE LIKENED TO HIMI believe every word in the bible is absolute truth the word never contradicts itself, its just that our small minds can’t understand it, so we try and add our own spin to what it says.
My friend remember we all can be blinded in many ways its not just denominations that can blind us but also our prejudges too. This makes us read what we want to read and not read what we don’t believe.
Example, what teaching do most people over look!
Baptism is truth AND imposition of hands is truth AND resurrection of the dead is truth AND eternal judgment is truth.Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms AND IMPOSITION OF HANDS, and of the resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Act 8:17 Then they LAID THEIR HANDS UPON THEM: and they received the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that, BY THE IMPOSITION OF THE HANDS OF THE APOSTLES, the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
1Ti 5:22 IMPOSE NOT HANDS LIGHTLY upon any man, neither be partaker of other men's sins. Keep thyself chaste.
2Ti 1:6 For which cause I admonish thee that thou stir up the grace of God WHICH IS IN THEE BY THE IMPOSITION OF MY HANDS.
Act 14:23 And when they HAD ORDAINED them ELDERS [pres-boo'-ter-os] in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.
1Ti 4:14 Neglect not the grace that is in thee, WHICH WAS GIVEN THEE BY PROPHECY, with IMPOSITION OF THE HANDS OF THE PRIESTHOOD.IMPOSITION OF THE HANDS
OF THE PRIESTHOODG4244
πρεσβυτέριον
presbuterion
pres-boo-ter'-ee-on
Neuter of a presumed derivative of G4245; the order of elders, that is, (specifically) Israelite Sanhedrim or Christian “presbytery”: – (estate of) elder (-s), presbytery.I agree we should not follow man made religions but I also believe we should not follow
self man made non-religion religions.I agree with many of your beliefs Nick, but there is no denying that Jesus is one with his Father.
Again Yes I believe that Jesus has always been the Son of God. He is with his Father and was one with his Father!God Bless
Hi SS,
Jesus thought there needed to be an earthly leader of the church??? Did Jesus do things on his own initiative then?Try Jn 5.30,8.42,12.49,14.10,
What is the only specified and safe basement rock upon which is laid the foundation stones of the church of God?
Mt 7.24
'Therefore, anyone who hears these words of mine and acts on them may be vcompared to a wise nman who built his house on ROCK. And the rain fell and the floods came and the winds blew against that house ; and yet it did not fall, for it had been FOUNDED on the ROCK..”
Lk 6.46
“Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord' and do not do what I say. Everyone who came sto me and hears my words and acts on them, I will show you what he is like;he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the ROCK..”In Lk 6 Jesus showd that it was obedience to do this and rebellion to lay that foundation on any man. The ones who call out to him as Lord but do not obey will be left standing outside the door too.
So upon that Rock only one cornerstone can be laid.
1Cor 3.10f
“According to the grace of God which was given to me , like a wise master builder I laid a FOUNDATION, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. FOR NO MAN CAN LAY A FOUNDATION OTHER THAN THE ONE WHICH IS LAID which is JESUS CHRIST”This is the stumbling stone for many, the cornerstone, upon which the building rises in which Peter and the other apostles and saints are built.
Eph 2.19f
“..you are fellow citizens with tha saints, and are of God's household, having been built on the FOUNDATION of the apostles and prophets, CHRIST JESUS himself being the CORNERSTONE, in whom the whole building being fitted together, is growing into a holy Temple in the Lord..”And the final structure is seen in with Peter included in Rev21.12f, the New Jerusalem.
“It had a great and high wall, with twelve gates …
..And the wall of the city had twelve FOUNDATION STONES, and on them the names of the TWELVE APOSTLES OF THE LAMB”Peter was the first of the apostles to show the first leaf of the Spirit growing in him and thus he was ready for laying in the wall of the church, but all produced that fruit and were laid with him. If Peter was appointed THE LEADER , the VICAR or substitute for Christ, then why, when Paul met with them in Gal 2 does he say
“James and Cephas[Peter] and John, who were reputed to be the pillars..”
Why was Peter the one who was in need of correction[v14]?Not a great start as THE leader? He was one of those who advised Paul in Acts 15 but so was James, and he was no ruler but one of the apostles serving the head of the church, Christ HimselfIs Jesus no longer the Head of the Body?
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