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Quote Hi david,
Yes he will come and be present.
Not some sort of ghost that is only seen by someJohn 14:19:
“A little longer and the world will behold me no more, but you [Jesus’ faithful apostles] will behold me, because I live and you will live.”
(Jesus had promised his apostles that he would come again and take them to heaven to be with him. They could see him because they would be spirit creatures as he is. But the world would not see him again. Compare 1 Timothy 6:16.)Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 23 2008,14:26) Hi 94,
“I do believe that the Lord will come to the earth and establish his kingdom on earth after the 1000 year reign which I believe is in heaven.”Earth or heaven?
Hi Nick:I believe that the 1000 year reign will be in heaven. When the church is raptured, those who are alive who have not been saved will be judged by the seven last plagues. I don't want to be on earth during this time which is also known as the wrath of God. During the thousand year period, we will be judging the dead who will be resurrected after the thousand year period to receive their judgment.
When the Lord returns to the earth after this period of time, his kingdom will be on earth for eternity. It will be paradise on earth for God's children.
Hi david,
Where did he promise to take them to heaven?
Certainly nobody has been able to see him since then.
Burt men were told they would see him return, as he left.But he has a new spiritual body as we who follow him will also.
So if he cannot be seen by men neither will the sons of God.Hi 94,
You say and my comments will be in CAPITALS
“I believe that the 1000 year reign will be in heaven.”
IS IT WRITTEN?” When the church is raptured, those who are alive who have not been saved will be judged by the seven last plagues.”
YES WE WILL NOT SUFFER THE WRATH OF GOD“I don't want to be on earth during this time which is also known as the wrath of God. “
YES BUT WE MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR AND THERE IS NO AIR IN HEAVEN IS THERE?
” During the thousand year period, we will be judging the dead who will be resurrected after the thousand year period to receive their judgment.”
IT IS WRITTEN THAT THE DXEAD WILL BE RAISED AT THE END OF THAT PERIOD AND CHRIST WILL JUDGE THEM“When the Lord returns to the earth after this period of time, his kingdom will be on earth for eternity. It will be paradise on earth for God's children.”
YES
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 23 2008,15:03) Hi 94,
You say and my comments will be in CAPITALS
“I believe that the 1000 year reign will be in heaven.”
IS IT WRITTEN?” When the church is raptured, those who are alive who have not been saved will be judged by the seven last plagues.”
YES WE WILL NOT SUFFER THE WRATH OF GOD“I don't want to be on earth during this time which is also known as the wrath of God. “
YES BUT WE MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR AND THERE IS NO AIR IN HEAVEN IS THERE?
” During the thousand year period, we will be judging the dead who will be resurrected after the thousand year period to receive their judgment.”
IT IS WRITTEN THAT THE DXEAD WILL BE RAISED AT THE END OF THAT PERIOD AND CHRIST WILL JUDGE THEM“When the Lord returns to the earth after this period of time, his kingdom will be on earth for eternity. It will be paradise on earth for God's children.”
YES
Hi Nick:I don't know that the scripture states specifically where the 1000 year reign will be. I was basing this statement on the fact that the rapture will occur, and then the seven last plagues will be poured out on those who are not saved, and so, I do not believe that we will be on the earth during that period of time.
As for my statement about judging the dead during the 1000 year period, I based this statement on the following scriptures:
Quote Rev 20:4 ¶ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Quote 1Cr 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Cr 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?I may be wrong on this since it is not entirely clear to me.
How about giving me your understanding.
Thanks
Hi 94,
We see heaven opened and the King returning in Rev19
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Rev20
Rev 20:4 ¶ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.They reigned. They were given judgement.
That seems to fit with their appointed roles shown in Lk19
“it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.”
So to me it is the judgement of rulers just as Solomon had to judge between the two women over the disputed baby.
Hi Nick:
The scripture states:
Quote Rev 20:4 ¶ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them Thrones are for those who are doing the judging.
Hi Nick:
Relative to your question about heaven. What about the following scripture pertaining to the two witnesses:
Quote Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. John 14:19:
“A little longer and the world will behold me no more, but you [Jesus’ faithful apostles] will behold me, because I live and you will live.”The world would behold him no more. But Jesus anointed followers would.
1 JOHN 3:2
“Beloved ones, now we are children of God, but as yet it has not been made manifest what we shall be. We do know that whenever he is made manifest we shall be like him, because we shall see him just as he is.”Jesus is now a spirit. Those who will “see him just as he is” are ones who will become like him, as spirit creatures.
They will actually see him.But, sometimes, in scripture, and everyday language, we speak of seeing something when we mean discerning it. “Oh, I see.”
Rev. 1:7:
“Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him.”And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. -Mat 24:30
When the “sign” of Jesus appears in heaven, when he is said to be coming on the clouds, everyone will see what is happening, and they will beat themselves with grief.
I'm wondering what other's think of it saying the “sign” of the son of man?If Christ were to appear visibly in the heavens, it is obvious that not “every eye” would see him. If he appeared over Australia, for example, he would not be visible in Europe, Africa, and the Americas, would he?
He's not going to be riding around on a cloud like santa does a sleigh. It will be visible to all what is happening.
Quote But he has a new spiritual body as we who follow him will also.
See 1 John 3:2. Yes, those who are as he is, will see him. But will the world?
John 14:19:
“A little longer and the world will behold me no more, but you [Jesus’ faithful apostles] will behold me, because I live and you will live.”Does anyone here believe the words of Matthew 24 have a fullfillment other than in the first century?
If you do, I'm wondering why you think Jesus provided a sign for his parousia (presence) if it would obvious to all?
Anyone?
Hi david,
John 14:19:
“A little longer and the world will behold me no more, but you [Jesus’ faithful apostles] will behold me, because I live and you will live.”So those who live in the Spirit as Jesus does, commune with him.
Jn14
18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
But this has nothing to do with his return.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 23 2008,15:53) Hi 94,
But it is possible that the angels are judged then.
Judgement begins in the house of God.
Hi Nick:Yes, judgment must first begin at the house of God. But the judgment rendered by those who reign with Christ for 1000 years is the judgment of the world not the house of God.
Quote
1Cr 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?The judgment for faithful Christians will be not guilty, but we will have to go before the judgment seat of Christ for rewards.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 23 2008,15:54) Hi 94,
There is no manuscript that says the witnesses are men.
Hi Nick:The scripture states that they are prophets, and so they are men.
Quote Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. Hi 94,
Yes that too,
the tribunal of ChristMt25
14For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.15And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Romans 14:10
But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.So, I'm thinking of starting a new thread to discuss this topic. anyway…
Paul says: “Let such a man take this into account, that what we are in our word by letters when absent [a·pon′tes], such we shall also be in action when present [pa·ron′tes].” (Compare also Php 1:24-27.)
Thus, the contrast is between presence and absence, not between an arrival (or coming) and departure.
In view of this, J. B. Rotherham’s Emphasised Bible states in its appendix (p. 271): “In this edition the word parousia is uniformly rendered ‘presence’ (‘coming,’ as a representative of this word, being set aside). . . . The sense of ‘presence’ is so plainly [shown] by the contrast with ‘absence’ . . . that the question naturally arises,—Why not always so render it?”
WJ,
That Jesus’ pa·rou·si′a is not simply a momentary coming followed by a rapid departure but is, rather, a presence covering a period of time is also indicated by his words recorded at Matthew 24:37-39 and Luke 17:26-30. Here “the days of Noah” are compared to “the presence of the Son of man” (“the days of the Son of man,” in Luke’s account).
WJ, are the days of the Lord, considered to be the Lord's day?
Since “the days of Noah” actually covered a period of years, there is basis for believing that the foretold “presence [or “days”] of the Son of man” would likewise cover a period of some years, being climaxed by the destruction of those not giving heed to the opportunity afforded them to seek deliverance.
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