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Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 12 2010,15:27) Abiogenesis has never been proven, All life comes from life is an established biological/historical fact. No proof will be enough for you because you have the Atheists Disease.
As I thought. You cannot give any evidence your god exists beyond claiming he does. As I said, science can explain anything about the world just as well, if not better, than belief in god can.Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 12 2010,16:08) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 13 2010,08:33) This site has been set up to insulate those who don't like their beliefs challenged. If your faith is weak, then stay away from the “Skeptics Place” section. Couldn't be much simpler than that. Kejonn, I love having my faith challenged. The challenge of Athiests though I just dont know what to say. So up to this point I have avoided it.
Quote But let me ask you: would you be okay with an adult who kept a mannequin in his home and told everyone it was his girlfriend? What if he seemed to honestly believe that, would you go along and act as if the mannequin was indeed real? Or would you try to help him over his delusion? Belief in God is not a delusion.
People view “delusion” as a negative word, but when you believe in something that has no evidence of being real, what should you call it?So as the scientist type of person that you are Stu, what do you think will happen when the world prehaps through nuclear war or something else becomes unihabitable?
Will you be one of the few who leave the planet and try and live on another one ? (like im sure they are already planning to do)
Or maybe your not quite good enough to be one of those few- and would instead have to stay behind like the rest of us?
Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 12 2010,16:24) and Santa is an invention of Satan to take children into a make believe world then tell them it wasnt real. Just as is television, fiction books, and all the rest. We are living in a world full of delusion. That is the problem.
1) you cannot even prove the existence of Satan, so how can you say Santa is his invention?2) What makes you think that heaven and gods are not the invention of people long ago? All you have is an ancient book making many unverifiable claims. If the gods of the books were so active long ago, why are those so silent today?
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 13 2010,09:46) Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 12 2010,16:08) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 13 2010,08:33) This site has been set up to insulate those who don't like their beliefs challenged. If your faith is weak, then stay away from the “Skeptics Place” section. Couldn't be much simpler than that. Kejonn, I love having my faith challenged. The challenge of Athiests though I just dont know what to say. So up to this point I have avoided it.
Quote But let me ask you: would you be okay with an adult who kept a mannequin in his home and told everyone it was his girlfriend? What if he seemed to honestly believe that, would you go along and act as if the mannequin was indeed real? Or would you try to help him over his delusion? Belief in God is not a delusion.
People view “delusion” as a negative word, but when you believe in something that has no evidence of being real, what should you call it?
Faith.What is in my heart. Things that happen that cannot be explained away,
Seeing the bigger picture of life beyond the delusion.And beyond the churches and gatherings.
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 13 2010,09:49) Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 12 2010,16:24) and Santa is an invention of Satan to take children into a make believe world then tell them it wasnt real. Just as is television, fiction books, and all the rest. We are living in a world full of delusion. That is the problem.
1) you cannot even prove the existence of Satan, so how can you say Santa is his invention?2) What makes you think that heaven and gods are not the invention of people long ago? All you have is an ancient book making many unverifiable claims. If the gods of the books were so active long ago, why are those so silent today?
What makes you think the God of the bible is not active today?
I dont read the Bible much.
Only if God wants to show me something. It is the Bible which God used to communicate with me. Nothing was coincidence.
Therefore it was the God of the Bible who was revealed to me.Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 12 2010,16:52) Faith. What is in my heart. Things that happen that cannot be explained away,
Seeing the bigger picture of life beyond the delusion.And beyond the churches and gatherings.
So if an adult believes in fairies, its not delusion but faith? How about aliens? Ghosts? Unicorns?Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 12 2010,17:08) What makes you think the God of the bible is not active today?[/quote] His non-involvement, silence, and invisibility?
I dont read the Bible much.
Only if God wants to show me something. It is the Bible which God used to communicate with me. Nothing was coincidence.
Therefore it was the God of the Bible who was revealed to me.
If you had never read the bible or heard of its god, what do you suppose would be your belief today? Why does this god choose to reveal himself only in the pages of an ancient book instead of personal revelation that can be verified?Kejonn;
Fairies leprechauns and UFO's are all the imagination of todays fiction and tv writers. Didnt you know that.
Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 12 2010,20:31) Kejonn; Fairies leprechauns and UFO's are all the imagination of todays fiction and tv writers. Didnt you know that.
Were it that easy. Many people swear they've either seen aliens or were abducted by them. They are serious about it. If I believe God is real, I must also believe aliens are real and that they abduct humans (but return them). Both God and aliens have the same amount of evidence pertaining to their reality.Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 13 2010,13:42) Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 12 2010,20:31) Kejonn; Fairies leprechauns and UFO's are all the imagination of todays fiction and tv writers. Didnt you know that.
Were it that easy. Many people swear they've either seen aliens or were abducted by them. They are serious about it. If I believe God is real, I must also believe aliens are real and that they abduct humans (but return them). Both God and aliens have the same amount of evidence pertaining to their reality.
25 And of them is he who hearkens to you, and We have cast veils over their hearts lest they understand it and a heaviness into their ears; and even if they see every sign they will not believe in it; so much so that when they come to you they only dispute with you; those who disbelieve say: This is naught but the stories of the ancients.( سورة الأنعام , Al-Anaam, Chapter #6, Verse #25)
Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 13 2010,09:24) Stuart, If you enjoy science and think that is the truth, and others believe God is the truth, thats fine.
and Santa is an invention of Satan to take children into a make believe world then tell them it wasnt real. Just as is television, fiction books, and all the rest. We are living in a world full of delusion. That is the problem.
You enjoy the benefits of science and treat it as if it is 'the truth' in your everyday life, so I hardly think that is my preserve exclusively.It is not a fair comparison really, because science gives us a temporary approximation to the truth. There is nothing absolute or infallible about it. Enthusiasts of science are not required to think about its results as absolute and final answers, with pain of punishment for those who refuse to believe them: indeed reluctance to believe is encouraged, not punished.
Myths of childhood are important for normal intellectual development. What reaction should we have when many continue with religious myths into adulthood and systematise them into ways of controlling others? Is that not identical to what you call the work of satan? Isn't special pleading all you have against that analysis?
Stuart
Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 13 2010,09:48) So as the scientist type of person that you are Stu, what do you think will happen when the world prehaps through nuclear war or something else becomes unihabitable? Will you be one of the few who leave the planet and try and live on another one ? (like im sure they are already planning to do)
Or maybe your not quite good enough to be one of those few- and would instead have to stay behind like the rest of us?
If the world becomes uninhabitable then we will die. Escape is a fantasy illusion at this point, and likely to remain so for a considerable time.We have moved from a situation where the biggest threat of widescale nuclear destruction was rooted in the mutual paranoia of the Soviet Union and the West, to the religious madness of the Middle East. In fact I think it is evangelical christians with some political influence who pose the biggest nuclear threat through their support for Israel in a conflict that they think will hasten judgment day. In close second place comes the nuclear-armed or soon to be nuclear armed islamic countries who will provide the other side in that war.
The modern appeal of the non-abrahamist is can we please have the Earth back once you religious crackpots have played out your fantasy destruction sequences on it?
If there is anything left of it.
Stuart
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 13 2010,13:42) Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 12 2010,20:31) Kejonn; Fairies leprechauns and UFO's are all the imagination of todays fiction and tv writers. Didnt you know that.
Were it that easy. Many people swear they've either seen aliens or were abducted by them. They are serious about it. If I believe God is real, I must also believe aliens are real and that they abduct humans (but return them). Both God and aliens have the same amount of evidence pertaining to their reality.
Aliens = New world order conspiracyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory)
But im sure you would of known that-
When Aliens come, those who arent gullible will know what is really going on!
When God comes there probably wont be any chance to reflect on anything.
That will be the key difference.Quote (Stu @ Feb. 13 2010,15:17) If the world becomes uninhabitable then we will die. Escape is a fantasy illusion at this point, and likely to remain so for a considerable time. We have moved from a situation where the biggest threat of widescale nuclear destruction was rooted in the mutual paranoia of the Soviet Union and the West, to the religious madness of the Middle East. In fact I think it is evangelical christians with some political influence who pose the biggest nuclear threat through their support for Israel in a conflict that they think will hasten judgment day. In close second place comes the nuclear-armed or soon to be nuclear armed islamic countries who will provide the other side in that war.
The modern appeal of the non-abrahamist is can we please have the Earth back once you religious crackpots have played out your fantasy destruction sequences on it?
If there is anything left of it.
Stuart
Ok.Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 12 2010,21:01) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 13 2010,13:42) Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 12 2010,20:31) Kejonn; Fairies leprechauns and UFO's are all the imagination of todays fiction and tv writers. Didnt you know that.
Were it that easy. Many people swear they've either seen aliens or were abducted by them. They are serious about it. If I believe God is real, I must also believe aliens are real and that they abduct humans (but return them). Both God and aliens have the same amount of evidence pertaining to their reality.
25 And of them is he who hearkens to you, and We have cast veils over their hearts lest they understand it and a heaviness into their ears; and even if they see every sign they will not believe in it; so much so that when they come to you they only dispute with you; those who disbelieve say: This is naught but the stories of the ancients.( سورة الأنعام , Al-Anaam, Chapter #6, Verse #25)
Is this what you have been reduced to, casting spells from your book of magic?Yeah, I've seen the “signs”, but that was before science started to explain many of the mysteries of this universe. The god of the gaps is becoming less necessary every day.
Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 13 2010,02:27) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 13 2010,13:42) Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 12 2010,20:31) Kejonn; Fairies leprechauns and UFO's are all the imagination of todays fiction and tv writers. Didnt you know that.
Were it that easy. Many people swear they've either seen aliens or were abducted by them. They are serious about it. If I believe God is real, I must also believe aliens are real and that they abduct humans (but return them). Both God and aliens have the same amount of evidence pertaining to their reality.
Aliens = New world order conspiracyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory)
But im sure you would of known that-
When Aliens come, those who arent gullible will know what is really going on!
When God comes there probably wont be any chance to reflect on anything.
That will be the key difference.
So now we depend on conspiracy theories?Reality is a harsh master.
So what do you believe in Kejonn? I thought you had spirituality?- you said.
I realize Stu doesnt believe in anything but Science.You are both really in need of depending on something higher than this (tiny) planet which is ruled by Humans.
They have done a pretty good job really. You can believe that too but we will see where Mans power will get us.
Have you also never heard of the Illuminati?Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 13 2010,05:10) So what do you believe in Kejonn? I thought you had spirituality?- you said.
I realize Stu doesnt believe in anything but Science.You are both really in need of depending on something higher than this (tiny) planet which is ruled by Humans.
They have done a pretty good job really. You can believe that too but we will see where Mans power will get us.
Have you also never heard of the Illuminati?
Spirituality does not relegate itself to the realm of revealed religions. It can be as simple as positing that we are all connected in some aspect to the universe, be it through energy and/or matter. For instance, going out on a sunny day is healthy as long as we protect ourselves from over-exposure. The sunlight helps the body to produce vitamin D. Sunlight also helps plants to grow, and the plants take in our carbon dioxide to produce oxygen that we breathe. These are but small examples, and none of them are imagined.Why does there have to be something higher than us? The universe itself is higher than us, but it is not a single living entity. Sure, there could be other sentient beings higher than us, but why speculate on what they are without any evidence that such a force or entity exists?
Our imaginations are powerful things. Many modern (and ancient) discoveries were made using the imagination as a starting point. The imagination is good for writing songs, books, and movie scripts that provide us with entertainment. But there really is not a whole lot of benefit in having imaginary friends.
So you both agree with each other.
You dont think anything could of created what you see and that it all just happened to happen
ohh-kayIf you were to set up a vegie garden, and go away
you should really also set up a watering system on a timer cause otherwise its dead.If you were an illegal marujuana grower in NZ you would also know the importance of setting it up right.
Most- to avoid getting caught, use a darkened room or building, and they need to set up artificial light, temperature, watering system and so on.If I go away the neighbour feeds my cat.I make sure I leave enough food and that its good food so he wont get sick.
Theres God and science explained in my unscientific mind, everything has been set up perfectly for us.
What Man does with that is another story.
Enough Nuclear weapons to destroy the whole planet three times over is enough for me to get.
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