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Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,11:38) the Love God wants is the one based on complete understanding the requirement of it and so see the true reasons to love
Don't forget it doesn't matter whether you understand it or not. You will burn in hell if you don't express compulsory love.Nasty dictator this Imaginary Friend.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 12 2011,18:58) Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,11:38) the Love God wants is the one based on complete understanding the requirement of it and so see the true reasons to love
Don't forget it doesn't matter whether you understand it or not. You will burn in hell if you don't express compulsory love.Nasty dictator this Imaginary Friend.
Stuart
STUQuote You will burn in hell if you don't express compulsory love.
WHERE ARE YOU GETTHING YOUR INFO ?Pierre
stu
Quote Essentially, yes. Although if you remove the Imaginary Friends from the bible you can still get an idea of Jewish thinking about the universe and morality.
It is true that the ancient Jewish creation myth did indeed involve a solid hemisphere above the earth with water above it and the stars and moon attached to it, notwithstanding modern apologists' attempts to twist that story to fit modern cosmology.
Stuart
you can not insulting God with one side of you lips and then say that there is some truth in his word,with the other side of those same lips
either he is true or imaginary not both
Pierre
Quote (Stu @ July 12 2011,18:03) Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,09:22) stu this logic of yours is the best i have seen;
you make people gobble up a story that can not be proven in one live time ,this is good,
can prove any because it happen MILLIONS YEARS AGO and it continue but it will take MILLION YEARS ,so it not your fault that we only live 80 + years ,right,
I want prove now not yesterday or tomorrow
Pierre
This is an idiotic position to take. If we are talking about an earth that is 4.55 billion years old, which we are, then you cannot expect to hire the DVD that shows you the edited highlights of the live coverage of history.What you can do is start digging and analysing, and painstakingly fitting together a reconstruction of what happened.
While there is overwhelming evidence for evolution by natural selection, and for the scientific model of cosmology taken from multiple independent sources, perhaps we should apply your logic to the bible. None of its stories are claimed to have happened in the last 80 years or so, so therefore no one should believe that any of it is true. This is actually a more credible statement than yours, because there is no reliable evidence (certainly no eyewitness evidence) that Jesus, or Solomon, or Moses existed.
While scientists shy away from the word “proved” (you can only prove things in mathematics), in the language you use, evolution by natural selection over thousands of millions of years IS proved beyond all reasonable doubt. I have posted a tiny fraction of the evidence in this thread, and you appear either not to understand its significance, or not to have a response to it.
Stuart
stuwith all what scriptures as show me how to live in a spiritual way ,and pay attention to godly thoughts and understanding the deep understanding of thing outside and inside of me
it gives me understanding of reality and make me a better person and able me to understand self control and use it ,
now on the other hand if i follow your perspective it would only make a monkey out of me,
Pierre
Quote you can not insulting God with one side of you lips and then say that there is some truth in his word,with the other side of those same lips technically he was not, evidence points to jews practicing astrology in the hellenistic & roman periods. it was usually seen as a tripartite, most likely forming kabblah within the jewish sect. however note his sentence afterwards, notwithstanding modern apologists' attempts to twist that story to fit modern cosmology
would you like to start a thread on the comparisons of the hebrew text to the arabic text, tis always a good discussion.
Quote it gives me understanding of reality and make me a better person and able me to understand self control and use it buddaism states the same thing.
Quote WHERE ARE YOU GETTHING YOUR INFO (1) Everyone will exist eternally either in heaven or hell (Daniel 12:2,3; Matthew 25:46; John 5:28; Revelation 20:14,15).
(2) Everyone has only one life in which to determine their destiny (Hebrews 9:27).
(3) Heaven or hell is determined by whether a person believes (puts their trust) in Christ alone to save them (John 3:16, 36, etc.).
Key Passages About Hell
(1) Hell was designed originally for Satan and his demons (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10).
(2) Hell will also punish the sin of those who reject Christ (Matthew 13:41,50; Revelation 20:11-15; 21:8).
(3) Hell is conscious torment.
•Matthew 13:50 “furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth”
•Mark 9:48 “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”
•Revelation 14:10 “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone”
(4) Hell is eternal and irreversible.
•Revelation 14:11“the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night”
•Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death, the lake of fire”
•Revelation 20:15“If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire”
Erroneous Views of Hell
(1) The second chance view – After death there is still a way to escape hell.
Answer: “It is appointed unto men once to die and after that the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).
(2) Universalism – All are eternally saved.
Answer: It denies the truth of salvation through Christ which means that a person decides to either trust in Christ or else he/she rejects Christ and goes to hell (John 3:16;3:36).
(3) Annihilationism – Hell means a person dies like an animal – ceases to exist.
Answer: It denies the resurrection of the unsaved (John 5:28, etc. – see above). It denies conscious torment (see above).
Objections to the Biblical View of Hell
(1) A loving God would not send people to a horrible hell.
Response: God is just (Romans 2:11).
•God has provided the way of salvation to all (John 3:16,17; 2 Corinthians 5:14,15; 1 Timothy 2:6; 4:10; Titus 2:11; 2 Peter 3:9).
•Even those who haven’t heard of Christ are accountable for God’s revelation in nature (Romans 1:20). God will seek those who seek Him (Matthew 7:7; Luke 19:10).
•Therefore God doesn’t send people to hell, they choose it (Romans 1:18,21,25).
(2) Hell is too severe a punishment for man’s sin.
Response: God is holy-perfect (1 Peter 1:14,15).
•Sin is willful opposition to God our creator (Romans 1:18-32).
•Our sin does merit hell (Romans 1:32; 2:2,5,6).
•What is unfair and amazing is that Christ died for our sin and freely offers salvation to all (Romans 2:4; 3:22-24; 4:7,8; 5:8,9).
Biblical Terms Describing Where the Dead Are
•Sheol – a Hebrew term simply describing “the grave” or “death” – Does not refer to “hell” specifically
•Hades – A Greek term that usually refers to hell – a place of torment (Luke 10:15; 16:23, etc.)
•Gehenna – A Greek term (borrowed from a literal burning dump near Jerusalem) that always refers to hell – a place of torment (Matthew 5:30; 23:33)
•“Lake of fire”- the final abode of unbelievers after they are resurrected (Revelation 20:14,15)
•“Abraham’s bosom” – (Luke 16:22) a place of eternal comfort
•“Paradise” – (Luke 23:43) a place of eternal comfort
•“With the Lord” – a key phrase describes where church age believers are after death (Philippians 1:23; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; 2 Corinthians 5:8)
•“New heavens and earth” – where believers will be after they are resurrected (Revelation 20:4-6; 21:1-4)
Conclusion
Our curiosity about the abode of the dead is not completely satisfied by biblical terms or verses. What we do know is that either eternal torment in hell or eternal joy in heaven awaits all people after death, based on whether they trust in Christ’s payment for sin or reject Christ.Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,12:51) Quote You will burn in hell if you don't express compulsory love.
WHERE ARE YOU GETTHING YOUR INFO ?Pierre
Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.
Revelation 14:10-11 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Stuart
Quote (princess @ July 12 2011,20:34) Quote you can not insulting God with one side of you lips and then say that there is some truth in his word,with the other side of those same lips technically he was not, evidence points to jews practicing astrology in the hellenistic & roman periods. it was usually seen as a tripartite, most likely forming kabblah within the jewish sect. however note his sentence afterwards, notwithstanding modern apologists' attempts to twist that story to fit modern cosmology
would you like to start a thread on the comparisons of the hebrew text to the arabic text, tis always a good discussion.
Princessyes he did by calling God a imaginary friend
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,12:56) stu Quote Essentially, yes. Although if you remove the Imaginary Friends from the bible you can still get an idea of Jewish thinking about the universe and morality.
It is true that the ancient Jewish creation myth did indeed involve a solid hemisphere above the earth with water above it and the stars and moon attached to it, notwithstanding modern apologists' attempts to twist that story to fit modern cosmology.
Stuart
you can not insulting God with one side of you lips and then say that there is some truth in his word,with the other side of those same lips
either he is true or imaginary not both
Pierre
Once again you make an assumption of divine inspiration without justifying it.What god?
Many people are under the delusion that gods exist. Your Book of Talking Snakes was written by such people.
You can understand their thinking by reading their writing. That does not mean it is anything more than historical fiction. The place mentioned as Jerusalem does actually exist. That is no reason to think that Jesus walked again after he had been judicially executed. That story is fictional, set in a context that is well established as historical.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 12 2011,20:55) Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,12:51) Quote You will burn in hell if you don't express compulsory love.
WHERE ARE YOU GETTHING YOUR INFO ?Pierre
Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.
Revelation 14:10-11 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Stuart
stuis this all literal or some is allegorical
what it means ?
Pierre
Quote (princess @ July 12 2011,20:36) Quote it gives me understanding of reality and make me a better person and able me to understand self control and use it buddaism states the same thing.
stumost all religion came after Judaism
;Background:
Buddhism currently has about 376 million followers and is generally listed as the world's fourth largest religion after Christianity, Islam and Hinduism. It was founded in Northern India by Siddhartha Gautama (circa 563 to 460 BCE) and has spread into much of the far East. It is making major inroads into North AmericaQuote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,13:03) Quote (Stu @ July 12 2011,18:03) Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,09:22) stu this logic of yours is the best i have seen;
you make people gobble up a story that can not be proven in one live time ,this is good,
can prove any because it happen MILLIONS YEARS AGO and it continue but it will take MILLION YEARS ,so it not your fault that we only live 80 + years ,right,
I want prove now not yesterday or tomorrow
Pierre
This is an idiotic position to take. If we are talking about an earth that is 4.55 billion years old, which we are, then you cannot expect to hire the DVD that shows you the edited highlights of the live coverage of history.What you can do is start digging and analysing, and painstakingly fitting together a reconstruction of what happened.
While there is overwhelming evidence for evolution by natural selection, and for the scientific model of cosmology taken from multiple independent sources, perhaps we should apply your logic to the bible. None of its stories are claimed to have happened in the last 80 years or so, so therefore no one should believe that any of it is true. This is actually a more credible statement than yours, because there is no reliable evidence (certainly no eyewitness evidence) that Jesus, or Solomon, or Moses existed.
While scientists shy away from the word “proved” (you can only prove things in mathematics), in the language you use, evolution by natural selection over thousands of millions of years IS proved beyond all reasonable doubt. I have posted a tiny fraction of the evidence in this thread, and you appear either not to understand its significance, or not to have a response to it.
Stuart
stuwith all what scriptures as show me how to live in a spiritual way ,and pay attention to godly thoughts and understanding the deep understanding of thing outside and inside of me
it gives me understanding of reality and make me a better person and able me to understand self control and use it ,
now on the other hand if i follow your perspective it would only make a monkey out of me,
Pierre
You cannot decide that facts of history do not apply to you. It is a fact that we are both apes, and we are descended from an ancestor we share in common with monkeys, which was a monkey.As I explained to you earlier, it is fine for you to see christianity as a better way of doing things than other ways, and I would have to agree. However, it is at best a halfway house position, still full of immorality and absurdity, not least of which is believing in a celestial conspiracy theory just like the scientologists, the tarot card readers and some UFOlogists do.
There is a better way, remember? Spinoza, Einstein, Hume, Dennett, Grayling et al. Basically it is a manifesto of mutual respect and belief that is only based on evidence and reason from premises that are not absurd ones.
Stuart
stu
Hinduism Portal
Hindu Mythology Portal
v · d · eHinduism is a term for a wide variety of related religious traditions native to India.[1] Historically, it encompasses the development of Religion in India since the Iron Age traditions, which in turn hark back to prehistoric religions such as that of the Bronze Age Indus Valley Civilization followed by the Iron Age Vedic religion.
Classical Hinduism emerges as a revival of Vedic traditions with the gradual decline of Buddhism in India from around the beginning of the Common Era. Hindu philosophy had six branches, evolving from about the 2nd century BC to the 6th century AD, viz. Samkhya, Yoga, Nyaya, Vaisheshika, Mimamsa, and Vedanta. Monotheistic religions like Shaivism and Vaishnavism developed during this same period through the Bhakti movement.
Classical Pauranic Hinduism is established in the Middle Ages, as was Adi Shankara's Advaita Vedanta which reconciled the Vaishna and Shaiva sects, and gave rise to Smartism, while initiating the decline of the non-Vedantic schools of philosophy.
Hinduism under the Islamic Rulers saw the increasing prominence of the Bhakti movement, which remains influential today. The colonial period saw the emergence of various Hindu reform movements partly inspired by western culture, such as spiritism (Theosophy). The Partition of India in 1947 was along religious lines, with the Republic of India emerging with a Hindu majority.
During the 20th century, due to the Indian diaspora, Hindu minorities have formed in all continents, with the largest communities in absolute numbers in the United States and the United Kingdom. In the Republic of India, Hindu nationalism has emerged as a strong political force since the 1980s, the Hindutva Bharatiya Janata Party forming the Government of India from 1999 to 2004, and its first state government in southern India in 2006
second century bc
Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,14:01) Quote (Stu @ July 12 2011,20:55) Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,12:51) Quote You will burn in hell if you don't express compulsory love.
WHERE ARE YOU GETTHING YOUR INFO ?Pierre
Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.
Revelation 14:10-11 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Stuart
stuis this all literal or some is allegorical
what it means ?
Pierre
It's your book of Talking Donkeys. You tell me!This is one of the ways in which writers of religious tracts who insist they are writing down the “word of god” are incredibly dangerous. Their followers are gullible enough to believe them but the words are so ambiguous they can support any position. For every person who claims the New Testament insists everyone should live in poverty there is another god head who can find textual support for his acquisition of his enormous wealth. You and I could probably remember where the relevant verses are without even looking!
So, it says thou shalt love god, and it says vengeance will be taken on those that do not know god, by flames in an eternal punishment.
I don't really care if that is not how you read it. None of it is actually true, but you did ask where I got my information, and there it is.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 12 2011,21:04) Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,13:03) Quote (Stu @ July 12 2011,18:03) Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,09:22) stu this logic of yours is the best i have seen;
you make people gobble up a story that can not be proven in one live time ,this is good,
can prove any because it happen MILLIONS YEARS AGO and it continue but it will take MILLION YEARS ,so it not your fault that we only live 80 + years ,right,
I want prove now not yesterday or tomorrow
Pierre
This is an idiotic position to take. If we are talking about an earth that is 4.55 billion years old, which we are, then you cannot expect to hire the DVD that shows you the edited highlights of the live coverage of history.What you can do is start digging and analysing, and painstakingly fitting together a reconstruction of what happened.
While there is overwhelming evidence for evolution by natural selection, and for the scientific model of cosmology taken from multiple independent sources, perhaps we should apply your logic to the bible. None of its stories are claimed to have happened in the last 80 years or so, so therefore no one should believe that any of it is true. This is actually a more credible statement than yours, because there is no reliable evidence (certainly no eyewitness evidence) that Jesus, or Solomon, or Moses existed.
While scientists shy away from the word “proved” (you can only prove things in mathematics), in the language you use, evolution by natural selection over thousands of millions of years IS proved beyond all reasonable doubt. I have posted a tiny fraction of the evidence in this thread, and you appear either not to understand its significance, or not to have a response to it.
Stuart
stuwith all what scriptures as show me how to live in a spiritual way ,and pay attention to godly thoughts and understanding the deep understanding of thing outside and inside of me
it gives me understanding of reality and make me a better person and able me to understand self control and use it ,
now on the other hand if i follow your perspective it would only make a monkey out of me,
Pierre
You cannot decide that facts of history do not apply to you. It is a fact that we are both apes, and we are descended from an ancestor we share in common with monkeys, which was a monkey.As I explained to you earlier, it is fine for you to see christianity as a better way of doing things than other ways, and I would have to agree. However, it is at best a halfway house position, still full of immorality and absurdity, not least of which is believing in a celestial conspiracy theory just like the scientologists, the tarot card readers and some UFOlogists do.
There is a better way, remember? Spinoza, Einstein, Hume, Dennett, Grayling et al. Basically it is a manifesto of mutual respect and belief that is only based on evidence and reason from premises that are not absurd ones.
Stuart
stui stick to my creation ,as i am now or just about,
you can see you as a ape ,
I never seen or heard that something so marveling than men ,animals ,fish,birds,trees,flowers,insect world,and all nature,climate,ect
can come out of destruction and hard core of rock
no thank you
Pierre
Quote (Stu @ July 12 2011,21:12) Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,14:01) Quote (Stu @ July 12 2011,20:55) Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,12:51) Quote You will burn in hell if you don't express compulsory love.
WHERE ARE YOU GETTHING YOUR INFO ?Pierre
Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.
Revelation 14:10-11 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Stuart
stuis this all literal or some is allegorical
what it means ?
Pierre
It's your book of Talking Donkeys. You tell me!This is one of the ways in which writers of religious tracts who insist they are writing down the “word of god” are incredibly dangerous. Their followers are gullible enough to believe them but the words are so ambiguous they can support any position. For every person who claims the New Testament insists everyone should live in poverty there is another god head who can find textual support for his acquisition of his enormous wealth. You and I could probably remember where the relevant verses are without even looking!
So, it says thou shalt love god, and it says vengeance will be taken on those that do not know god, by flames in an eternal punishment.
I don't really care if that is not how you read it. None of it is actually true, but you did ask where I got my information, and there it is.
Stuart
stuQuote It's your book of Talking Donkeys. You tell me! 
stu
Quote You cannot decide that facts of history do not apply to you and why not i may ask?
all your recorded history is not older than mine ,only as long as men have been on earth,right
it does not matter what those monkey are saying they were not there to see it ,and so imagine the story for the unknown (millions of years ago)
if you believe the monkey business then I am entitled to my believe as well what is not monkey but man, human
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2011,14:10) stu and islam 6 century AD
I realise all that. I think you should have been directing that material to princess, as it was not me that raised the point.However, since you have invited me in to your discussion with princess, it is pretty obvious that most religion existed before Judaism. If we take the approximate dates of the mythical Abraham early in the second millennium BCE as a generous starting point, then the Abrahamic religions have only existed for the last 2% of the history of the species homo sapiens.
The way humans buried their dead indicate the likelihood of religious observance, and there is no question that burial was accompanied by spiritual rituals 30,000 years ago. There is also some evidence that it was happening 300,000 years ago in our ancestor species.
Stuart
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