Christians and muslims believe the same thing

[Stu]

Quote (terraricca @ July 08 2011,07:26)

Men are the males of the species homo sapiens.  We are animals (because we are not plants or protists or fungi or bacteria or amoeba).  We are African great apes, most closely related to chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas (the other African apes), and orangutans (the Asian great apes).  Other great apes also pass the self-recognition mirror test. We are intelligent, but so are cetaceans.  Domestic cats are about as intelligent as 3 year old humans.   Stuart[/quote] stu ok,let s go your way,tell me wen did it start that men became man from animals(apes),and wen did it stopped that men became men from animals ,? Pierre

If you were really “going my way” then you might have considered reading my post.

Stuart

[Ed J]

Quote (Stu @ July 08 2011,17:52)

Quote (Ed J @ July 08 2011,08:46) Quote (Stu @ July 08 2011,05:48) Thank you for pointing that out, Ed.  No, bats do not come from dinosaurs, but the bible implies that they do. Stuart Hi Stuart, Where do you believe “bats” came from? FALSE; the bible says God created everything! Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Like I said earlier, you obviously don't know anything about science. Otherwise you would not make such an inane remark. Christianity: the religion for those who don't want to have to think about anything to any great depth. Stuart

Hi Stuart,

Please, kindly re-post the post where you say 'YOU' believe bats come from; OK?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[942767]

Quote (Stu @ July 08 2011,17:50)

Quote (942767 @ July 08 2011,12:30) Quote (Stu @ July 07 2011,17:04) Quote (942767 @ July 07 2011,12:04) Quote (Stu @ July 05 2011,16:42) Quote (942767 @ July 05 2011,11:33) Hi Stu: What came first, the chicken or the egg? Love in Christ, Marty The egg. Stuart Spoken like a true “Agnostic”. No, you've lost me there. Please explain? Stuart Hi Stu: Where did the “egg” come from?  Maybe from the creator of the Universe?   Love in Christ, Marty Maybe from the Flying Spaghetti Monster (bhna) too. Or Zeus, or Chaos and Eros? Could have been any of these creators of the universe. Or not. Stuart

Hi Stu:

And so, why don't you ask any of these if they created anything and see if they answer you?

The God that I serve will answer my prayers, and I know that He is the creator.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (Stu @ July 09 2011,00:57)

Quote (terraricca @ July 08 2011,07:26) Men are the males of the species homo sapiens.  We are animals (because we are not plants or protists or fungi or bacteria or amoeba).  We are African great apes, most closely related to chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas (the other African apes), and orangutans (the Asian great apes).  Other great apes also pass the self-recognition mirror test. We are intelligent, but so are cetaceans.  Domestic cats are about as intelligent as 3 year old humans.   Stuart stu ok,let s go your way,tell me wen did it start that men became man from animals(apes),and wen did it stopped that men became men from animals ,? Pierre[/quote] If you were really “going my way” then you might have considered reading my post. Stuart

stu

ok but you did not say wen it stopped

Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (Stu @ July 09 2011,00:48)

Quote (terraricca @ July 08 2011,07:13) Quote (Stu @ July 08 2011,13:36) Quote (terraricca @ July 08 2011,06:12) stu Quote Quote   You see Stuart ,what I did when I start  to study the bible ,I at first did not believe it ,but for me the formula that I put in my mind was this ;IF THERE IS A GOD ,THEN ALL WHAT HE SAYS AND DO WOULD HAVE TO APPLY NOT TO A GROUP OF PERSONS BUT ON AND TO ALL MANKIND, and so all his laws ordinances  and wisdom ,would under no condition CHANGE  IN TIME. This was my challenge to all my written readings and talks.   There is the problem.  You didn’t question the absurd assumption you are making.  Your treatment has been lacking. please could explain ? Pierre What “IF THERE IS NOT A GOD”? Stuart stu this is not the absurd until we prove it that it is, but is we go into the intellectual world and see what men as accomplished is it not amazing what as been done in the past 100 years there was more accomplished in the past 100 years than in the past 5000 years I would say. what you think? Pierre Do you have an answer to my point that your treatment has been poor, in that you have based your argument on the assumed existence of an Imaginary Friend that prima facie does not exist? Stuart

stu

you start to go in circles;you say to go in the absurd :if there is no God: but I have answer that it is only the absurd if you can prove it that it is not existing,

so prove to me that it (God) does not exist,

then you would have proved your theory of the absurd.

Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (Stu @ July 09 2011,00:56)

Quote (terraricca @ July 08 2011,07:21) I hope you decided what the meaning of your life is.  I decide mine. Stuart stu the meaning of live it self is not related to you or me but to the reasons that we as humans live ,like why we die?,why we live? ,why are we happy?, why are we sad?,why are we mad?,why are we fighting ????ect so those are my questions ,NO ANIMAL AS EVER ANSWERED THOSE QUESTION ,or did they? Pierre[/quote] I disagree that the meaning of life consists of those questions. Stuart

stu

you may disagree but then could you say what is the meaning of live,?

[Stu]

Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,03:38)

Quote (Stu @ July 09 2011,00:56) Quote (terraricca @ July 08 2011,07:21) I hope you decided what the meaning of your life is.  I decide mine. Stuart stu the meaning of live it self is not related to you or me but to the reasons that we as humans live ,like why we die?,why we live? ,why are we happy?, why are we sad?,why are we mad?,why are we fighting ????ect so those are my questions ,NO ANIMAL AS EVER ANSWERED THOSE QUESTION ,or did they? Pierre I disagree that the meaning of life consists of those questions. Stuart[/quote] stu you may disagree but then could you say what is the meaning of live,?

“The meaning of life” sounds quite fascist don't you think? I know what meaning I have decided my life has, and you have too. There is no one “meaning of life”.

If you are asking “why” we are alive, that is a different question, and I don't think there is any celestial intent behind the fact of our existence (there is none evident) so that “why” question seeks a mechanistic answer. It's not as if anyone has any other kind of answer to that “why” question. Strictly we are gene survival machines, but that is only at one level. For me the important aspect is being a sentient living thing with a rare opportunity for a reasonable depth of self-understanding and knowledge of place in universe. My self-decided meaning is centred around the possibilities that go with those startling facts. It includes ideas of service too, of course.

How about yours?

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,03:33)

stu you start to go in circles;you say to go in the absurd :if there is no God: but I have answer that it is only the absurd if you can prove it that it is not existing, so prove to me that it (God) does not exist, then you would have proved your theory of the absurd. Pierre

Your god idea is absurd unless you can disprove that Eros and Chaos were the joint creators of the universe.

It is not absurd to make no assumptions about the existence of gods, and allow any such idea to appear as part of an objective study of the universe, or at least being as objective as we can be.

Where does the evidence point? To gods? I disagree strongly. There is not one single shred of unambiguous evidence that Zeus was the highest of the Greek gods, is there. And the same goes for your god, and any other. There is no similar evidence that any god exists, or has the human characteristics that humans claim it has (why are gods not like cats instead of like humans? Maybe cats imagine gods that are like cats) or that anything called a god ever actually did anything.

I am skeptical but open to evidence. If you have no evidence then your god claim has no merit. Why should it? If you insisted that I take your word for it, based on what you claim are your experiences, then why should I not insist you take scientologists' words that they have special powers due to their status as operating thetans, or those who read the moronic “urantia book” that there are celestial construction crews that go round building planets?

I think you would be pretty quick to say that scientologists and urantia readers have the burden of proof but they cannot support their claims, but exactly the same applies to you.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,03:27)

If you were really “going my way” then you might have considered reading my post. Stuart[/quote] stu ok but you did not say wen it stopped Pierre

I quote myself:

Quote

Men are the males of the species homo sapiens. We are animals…

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (942767 @ July 09 2011,01:35)

Quote (Stu @ July 08 2011,17:50) Quote (942767 @ July 08 2011,12:30) Quote (Stu @ July 07 2011,17:04) Quote (942767 @ July 07 2011,12:04) Quote (Stu @ July 05 2011,16:42) Quote (942767 @ July 05 2011,11:33) Hi Stu: What came first, the chicken or the egg? Love in Christ, Marty The egg. Stuart Spoken like a true “Agnostic”. No, you've lost me there. Please explain? Stuart Hi Stu: Where did the “egg” come from?  Maybe from the creator of the Universe?   Love in Christ, Marty Maybe from the Flying Spaghetti Monster (bhna) too. Or Zeus, or Chaos and Eros? Could have been any of these creators of the universe. Or not. Stuart Hi Stu: And so, why don't you ask any of these if they created anything and see if they answer you? The God that I serve will answer my prayers, and I know that He is the creator. Love in Christ, Marty

Ed asked me last week to call out to his god, and he claims he kept his part of the deal, which was that he called out to the god Jupiter to reveal his glory to Ed. I heard nothing in reply, and I don't think Ed did either.

So, I will make the same offer. I'll do more calling out for your Imaginary Friend as long as you promise to call to Eros, Chaos, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster (bhna).

Will you do that?

Stuart

[terraricca]

Quote (Stu @ July 09 2011,15:34)

Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,03:38) Quote (Stu @ July 09 2011,00:56) Quote (terraricca @ July 08 2011,07:21) I hope you decided what the meaning of your life is.  I decide mine. Stuart stu the meaning of live it self is not related to you or me but to the reasons that we as humans live ,like why we die?,why we live? ,why are we happy?, why are we sad?,why are we mad?,why are we fighting ????ect so those are my questions ,NO ANIMAL AS EVER ANSWERED THOSE QUESTION ,or did they? Pierre I disagree that the meaning of life consists of those questions. Stuart stu you may disagree but then could you say what is the meaning of live,?

“The meaning of life” sounds quite fascist don't you think?  I know what meaning I have decided my life has, and you have too.  There is no one “meaning of life”.

If you are asking “why” we are alive, that is a different question, and I don't think there is any celestial intent behind the fact of our existence (there is none evident) so that “why” question seeks a mechanistic answer.  It's not as if anyone has any other kind of answer to that “why” question.  Strictly we are gene survival machines, but that is only at one level.  For me the important aspect is being a sentient living thing with a rare opportunity for a reasonable depth of self-understanding and knowledge of place in universe.  My self-decided meaning is centred around the possibilities that go with those startling facts.  It includes ideas of service too, of course.

How about yours?

Stuart[/quote]
stu

let me understand your meaning of live ;you do not know and because you do not know the meaning of live you trace yourself a way that you personally want to follow of cause within your boundary of action,but this is not the meaning of live this is the meaning of Stuart live,

all what you can reason are also depending on the other fellow that meet you,(what I mean is that any event that you do or encounter could change the course of that live you possess,and so altering or even stop you in the good or bad you are doing.)

this mean that you have to put your faith in yourself and trust that you are taken all the right decisions for your well being,or bad behavior witch ever will apply,right?

yes there is a meaning to live ,but that s the part you have already cut out of your live,

so for you the rule of live is ,eat and drink because tomorrow we die

Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (Stu @ July 09 2011,15:45)

Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,03:33) stu you start to go in circles;you say to go in the absurd :if there is no God: but I have answer that it is only the absurd if you can prove it that it is not existing, so prove to me that it (God) does not exist, then you would have proved your theory of the absurd. Pierre Your god idea is absurd unless you can disprove that Eros and Chaos were the joint creators of the universe. It is not absurd to make no assumptions about the existence of gods, and allow any such idea to appear as part of an objective study of the universe, or at least being as objective as we can be. Where does the evidence point?  To gods?  I disagree strongly.  There is not one single shred of unambiguous evidence that Zeus was the highest of the Greek gods, is there.  And the same goes for your god, and any other.  There is no similar evidence that any god exists, or has the human characteristics that humans claim it has (why are gods not like cats instead of like humans?  Maybe cats imagine gods that are like cats) or that anything called a god ever actually did anything. I am skeptical but open to evidence.  If you have no evidence then your god claim has no merit.  Why should it?  If you insisted that I take your word for it, based on what you claim are your experiences, then why should I not insist you take scientologists' words that they have special powers due to their status as operating thetans, or those who read the moronic “urantia book” that there are celestial construction crews that go round building planets? I think you would be pretty quick to say that scientologists and urantia readers have the burden of proof but they cannot support their claims, but exactly the same applies to you. Stuart

stu

you have driven away of my original description ,and go on to stone gods ,

sorry but this is not my believe at all ,

the god I believe in did past my test of truth

but you are your own god so to speak,right ?

Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (Stu @ July 09 2011,15:46)

Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,03:27) If you were really “going my way” then you might have considered reading my post. Stuart stu ok but you did not say wen it stopped Pierre[/quote] I quote myself: Quote Men are the males of the species homo sapiens.  We are animals… Stuart

stu

when and where did we cross over to be like we are now ?

Pierre

[Stu]

Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,10:33)

I quote myself: Quote Men are the males of the species homo sapiens.  We are animals… Stuart[/quote] stu when and where did we cross over to be like we are now ? Pierre

I don't understand your question. What is this “crossover”? From what to what?

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,10:31)

Quote (Stu @ July 09 2011,15:45) Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,03:33) stu you start to go in circles;you say to go in the absurd :if there is no God: but I have answer that it is only the absurd if you can prove it that it is not existing, so prove to me that it (God) does not exist, then you would have proved your theory of the absurd. Pierre Your god idea is absurd unless you can disprove that Eros and Chaos were the joint creators of the universe. It is not absurd to make no assumptions about the existence of gods, and allow any such idea to appear as part of an objective study of the universe, or at least being as objective as we can be. Where does the evidence point?  To gods?  I disagree strongly.  There is not one single shred of unambiguous evidence that Zeus was the highest of the Greek gods, is there.  And the same goes for your god, and any other.  There is no similar evidence that any god exists, or has the human characteristics that humans claim it has (why are gods not like cats instead of like humans?  Maybe cats imagine gods that are like cats) or that anything called a god ever actually did anything. I am skeptical but open to evidence.  If you have no evidence then your god claim has no merit.  Why should it?  If you insisted that I take your word for it, based on what you claim are your experiences, then why should I not insist you take scientologists' words that they have special powers due to their status as operating thetans, or those who read the moronic “urantia book” that there are celestial construction crews that go round building planets? I think you would be pretty quick to say that scientologists and urantia readers have the burden of proof but they cannot support their claims, but exactly the same applies to you. Stuart stu you have driven away of my original description ,and go on to stone gods , sorry but this is not my believe at all , the god I believe in did past my test of truth but you are your own god so to speak,right ? Pierre

There is nothing universal about your “test of truth”. It looks to me like this god only exists inside your head, in the same brain that has convinced itself of the “truth” of that god.

Have you thought about why you never notice the blindspots in your vision, even when only looking through one eye? When both your eyes are open the field of vision of one eye can fill in the missing bit in the other eye's vision. When using just one eye your brain compensates for the hole in your vision by inventing a bit to fill in the gap. In fact the brain makes up significant amounts of what you thought you observed: there is so much information coming in through the senses that it would be impossible for it to cope without making assumptions that gloss over the details. Many species of animal will not even detect a human nearby unless the person moves, given the much less processing power required to just detect things that change from second to second.

So now show me that your brain is not doing exactly the same kind of thing, but this time with your worldview. It is taking all the things about which you feel you do not have adequate answers and “filling in” the details with a place-holding idea, which you call a god.

Just because your brain has invented a word for those missing things, does not mean it refers to anything real.

When you can show me that none of these known effects of the mind can explain your “test of truth” then we might have something interesting to discuss (not that the topic of brains making things up is not interesting).

Stuart

[terraricca]

Quote (Stu @ July 09 2011,18:48)

Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,10:33) I quote myself: Quote Men are the males of the species homo sapiens.  We are animals… Stuart stu when and where did we cross over to be like we are now ? Pierre[/quote] I don't understand your question.  What is this “crossover”?  From what to what? Stuart

stu

com on men you are a ape and i ask you wen we split of being a ape?

[terraricca]

Quote (Stu @ July 09 2011,19:00)

Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,10:31) Quote (Stu @ July 09 2011,15:45) Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,03:33) stu you start to go in circles;you say to go in the absurd :if there is no God: but I have answer that it is only the absurd if you can prove it that it is not existing, so prove to me that it (God) does not exist, then you would have proved your theory of the absurd. Pierre Your god idea is absurd unless you can disprove that Eros and Chaos were the joint creators of the universe. It is not absurd to make no assumptions about the existence of gods, and allow any such idea to appear as part of an objective study of the universe, or at least being as objective as we can be. Where does the evidence point?  To gods?  I disagree strongly.  There is not one single shred of unambiguous evidence that Zeus was the highest of the Greek gods, is there.  And the same goes for your god, and any other.  There is no similar evidence that any god exists, or has the human characteristics that humans claim it has (why are gods not like cats instead of like humans?  Maybe cats imagine gods that are like cats) or that anything called a god ever actually did anything. I am skeptical but open to evidence.  If you have no evidence then your god claim has no merit.  Why should it?  If you insisted that I take your word for it, based on what you claim are your experiences, then why should I not insist you take scientologists' words that they have special powers due to their status as operating thetans, or those who read the moronic “urantia book” that there are celestial construction crews that go round building planets? I think you would be pretty quick to say that scientologists and urantia readers have the burden of proof but they cannot support their claims, but exactly the same applies to you. Stuart stu you have driven away of my original description ,and go on to stone gods , sorry but this is not my believe at all , the god I believe in did past my test of truth but you are your own god so to speak,right ? Pierre There is nothing universal about your “test of truth”.  It looks to me like this god only exists inside your head, in the same brain that has convinced itself of the “truth” of that god.   Have you thought about why you never notice the blindspots in your vision, even when only looking through one eye?  When both your eyes are open the field of vision of one eye can fill in the missing bit in the other eye's vision.  When using just one eye your brain compensates for the hole in your vision by inventing a bit to fill in the gap.  In fact the brain makes up significant amounts of what you thought you observed: there is so much information coming in through the senses that it would be impossible for it to cope without making assumptions that gloss over the details.  Many species of animal will not even detect a human nearby unless the person moves, given the much less processing power required to just detect things that change from second to second. So now show me that your brain is not doing exactly the same kind of thing, but this time with your worldview.  It is taking all the things about which you feel you do not have adequate answers and “filling in” the details with a place-holding idea, which you call a god. Just because your brain has invented a word for those missing things, does not mean it refers to anything real. When you can show me that none of these known effects of the mind can explain your “test of truth” then we might have something interesting to discuss (not that the topic of brains making things up is not interesting). Stuart

stu

Quote

There is nothing universal about your “test of truth”. It looks to me like this god only exists inside your head, in the same brain that has convinced itself of the “truth” of that god.

this goes for your version of thinking,

but I will always have something more that you will have.

[Stu]

Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,10:20)

stu let me understand your meaning of live ;you do not know and because you do not know the meaning of live you trace yourself a way that you personally want to follow of cause within your boundary of action,but this is not the meaning of live this is the meaning of Stuart live, all what you can reason are also depending on the other fellow that meet you,(what I mean is that any event that you do or encounter could change the course of that live you possess,and so altering or even stop you in the good or bad you are doing.) this mean that you have to put your faith in yourself and trust that you are taken all the right decisions for your well being,or bad behavior witch ever will apply,right? yes there is a meaning to live ,but that s the part you have already cut out of your live, so for you the rule of live is ,eat and drink because tomorrow we die Pierre

You misunderstand me.

But then you still have not told me what you think the “meaning of life” is.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,12:00)

Quote (Stu @ July 09 2011,18:48) Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,10:33) I quote myself: Quote Men are the males of the species homo sapiens.  We are animals… Stuart stu when and where did we cross over to be like we are now ? Pierre I don't understand your question.  What is this “crossover”?  From what to what? Stuart[/quote] stu com on men you are a ape and i ask you wen we split of being a ape?

Apes diverged from the old world monkeys about 30 million years ago. Is that the answer you were looking for?

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2011,12:03)

but I will always have something more that you will have.

It appears what you have that I do not is an immoral belief system that is based around a celestial conspiracy theory of Imaginary Friends for which there is no unambigiuous evidence.

Why should I give your claim any credit?

Stuart

[Author]

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