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Charles,
Humbly speaking like you said, the only way I believe I will totally and deeply understand God is when I die. Peace and love-Mark
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 07 2011,05:21) ,so how could it be true what Christ say ??-Pierre You yourself said, it is impossible for God to lie.
Markwe all the faithful men will become one with God ,this means that we all will adopt for our self the will of God
but Christ is the first to do that and show us the way
charles
Quote Pierre, Quote
God is spirit being,And Jesus only, is God both spirit and flesh(not like ours thou).
And through this mystery, Almighty God the Father also owns the flesh since it was through Him that His Son was glorified, and also in the same instant glorified Himself, to prove that they are one God.
Read 32 it says clear enough :If God be glorified in him,( Jesus) God shall also glorify him(Jesus) in himself, and shall straightway glorify him
So in 31 as soon as God glorify Jesus,
God also glorify Himself.
So they are both glorified in one instant action.
In 32 If God is glorified in Jesus,
God shall ALSO glorify Jesus in God.
So Jesus is glorified both as Jesus Son of God and also in the Father.to prove that they are one God. Two in One with the power of the Holy Spirit.
This is very important so when the last day comes and Jesus pass all things to His Father ,He will maintain His spirit in the Father,and also His spirit within all the entire creation both spiritual and material, because they also become one in themselves.
And here comes John 14:20
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
So spiritually all creatures although they are within themselves,they are also in Jesus, and since Jesus is in the Father therefore all creatures will be in the Father.
But only when the spiritual creatures unite with the material creatures to become one ,two in one ,like how Jesus and the Father are two in one this very moment,as they were before creation started,but only as a spirit being in the Father.
14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
John 13:31Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.
32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him
John 17:1 These things Jesus spoke, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said: Father, the hour is come, glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee.
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.
3 Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth; I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, with the glory which I had, before the world was, with thee.
peace and love in Jesus Christ
Charles
And Jesus only, is God both spirit and flesh(not like ours thou).THIS IS A LIE ;YOU THINK TO MUCH OF MEN ,AND NOT UNDERSTAND GOD
:If God be glorified in him,( Jesus) God shall also glorify him(Jesus) in himself, and shall straightway glorify himCOULD YOU TELL ME WHAT IS GOD GLORY AND WHAT IS CHRIST GLORY
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,20:03) I asked you if begetting a Son who was NOT God, but the Son OF God was impossible for God. -Mike This is a pointed question, from a human finite mind. Anything is possible for God. He can manifest himself any way he wants to. Be it a burning bush, three people talking to Abraham, or Jesus.
So then it IS possible for God to beget a Son who is not God Himself? Good, because that's exactly what He did.Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,20:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 06 2011,12:43) But Mark, If the Apostles worshipped BOTH Jesus AND the One that Jesus himself worshipped, then wouldn't they be guilty of worshipping TWO Gods?
Not when you see one you see the other like Jesus himself said. They are one.
Who did JESUS say to worship, Mark? (Matt 4:10, Luke 4:8)Plus, look at your own words: “when you see one you see the other“. Those words speak of TWO, not ONE.
So if Jesus is NOT the Father, and the Father is to US the only true God and the ONE Jesus himself told us to worship, then we shouldn't be worshipping someone OTHER THAN that ONE.
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 05 2011,19:52) Mike and Mark sorry but IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD TO LIE,
Pierre
Hi Pierre,I think there is a difference between what God WON'T do and what He CAN'T do. Jesus said NOTHING was impossible for God. (Luke 1:37)
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,20:17) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 06 2011,12:49) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,19:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 06 2011,12:35) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,19:05) “God is not, nor has He ever been flesh.'- Mikeboll Yes he has, and his name was Jesus, the word made flesh. The holy one of Israel.
Mark, God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.Why would your “flesh God” teach us that God is Spirit? Why would he count himself among those who worshipped our Spirit God? (John 4:22)
We have been here before.
My point here wasn't the “worship” thing anyway. My point was that God is SPIRIT, not FLESH. Does it make sense that a FLESH being who told us that God is SPIRIT would BE that God who is SPIRIT?Jesus didn't say “God is Spirit AND flesh”, right? And we know God is unchanging from scripture. If He is Spirit, like Jesus says, then He is ALWAYS Spirit.
That was because he was speaking, the part of God that was flesh.
Mark,Jesus continually spoke of HIS OWN God. He said that OUR God is the same person as HIS God is. God is NOT flesh, nor has He EVER BEEN flesh. He has never been “part flesh”, “sort of flesh”, or even “a little bit flesh”.
It is your Lord who told us that our God and his God was SPIRIT, Mark. Why do you call him “Lord”, and not believe him or do what he says? (Luke 6:46)
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,20:17) Mike, How is Jesus with us in spirit until the end and in heaven at the same time?
Because the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. (1 Cor 15:45) Do you think that Jesus being “with you” means the BEING of Jesus is literally standing right beside you? It means he is with you through spirit, just like his own God was with him through spirit while he was on the earth.Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,20:21) And if he was born by the power of the SPIRIT, and John saw the SPIRIT rest on him, and GOD IS A SPIRIT, wouldn't that with Jesus own testimony that when you see him you see the Father also testify he is God The Son?
No. Jesus testified of himself that he was the Son OF God, not “God the Son”.We have but ONE God, Mark. Jesus is the SON OF that ONE God. Why is this so hard?
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,20:34) One last thing, When Jesus claims to be the Alpha and the Omega.
Jesus is never called the “Alpha and Omega”. That is said only about Jesus' own God.Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,20:34) How can that be if it is as you say? Wouldn't God have to make Jesus first?
God DID make Jesus first. That's why Jesus is God's FIRSTBORN. (Hebrews 1:6)Col 1:15-16 is basically saying, “Jesus HAS TO BE the firstborn of all creation, BECAUSE all [other] things were created THROUGH him.”
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,20:34) Then how can this scripture claim that NOTHING was made without Jesus? Unless they BOTH were together at the beginning!
When it says that God is the Maker of ALL things, does it mean that God made HIMSELF? No, right? And we are smart enough to know that God made all things EXCEPT for Himself, right? Use that same reasoning with Jesus. If it is said that “ALL things” were created through him, then it stands to reason that HE was NOT created through HIMSELF, right?So in the case of God, it means “all things EXCEPT Himself”. In the case of Jesus, it means “all things EXCEPT for himself AND the God who brought him forth in the first place”.
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,20:46) He said,”When you see me you see the Father”. Straightforward.
And I asked you before, Do you think Jesus IS the Father?Quote (carmel @ Oct. 06 2011,15:06) Mike, Quote Could you tell us how God Himself could be all of these following things? Son OF God
Prophet OF God
Priest OF God
Servant OF God
Sacrificial Lamb OF God
Word/Spokesman OF God
Angel OF God
Anointed one OF GodHow can you convince yourself that god cannot be not just the above but also whatever entity He feels like to be without losing the least of His divinity, since scriptures says this:
Luke 10:22 NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE SON IS ,AND NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE FATHER IS
Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
peace and love in Jesus Christ
Charles
Are you kidding, Charles? All those things OF God that Jesus is, and your response is to imply that it would be NORMAL for God to be the Servant Of Himself? Or the Priest OF Himself? Of the Son OF Himself?Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
1. WHO is it that DELIVERED all things TO Jesus? And why would God Almighty need someone to GIVE him anything?
2. Your scripture says that no one knows “Person A” except for “Person B”, and vice versa. To me, that adds up to TWO persons, not ONE.
Which ONE of those TWO persons does scripture say is our “ONE God”? (1 Cor 8:6)
Which ONE of those TWO persons does Jesus say is our “ONLY true God”? (John 17:3)
Which ONE of those TWO persons does our Lord say is “my God and your God”? (John 20:17)
3. Since Jesus AND the ones to whom Jesus reveals the Father know who the Father is, are they ALL “God Almighty” then?
Charles, how does your scripture claim that Jesus is God? I don't see your point or the connection.
peace,
mikeMark and Charles,
We are continually addressing YOUR posts. Will you address Micah 5:4, and tell me why “God Almighty Jesus” will rule in the strength and name of HIS OWN GOD?
(Mark, you made one response to this point, but have not addressed my response TO your response.)
Also, will BOTH of you directly answer this question?
Does God Almighty have a God of his own? YES or NO?
Thanks,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2011,18:41) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 05 2011,19:52) Mike and Mark sorry but IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD TO LIE,
Pierre
Hi Pierre,I think there is a difference between what God WON'T do and what He CAN'T do. Jesus said NOTHING was impossible for God. (Luke 1:37)
peace,
mike
MikeHeb 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
I do not think so won`t does not exist in Gods ways either he does it or he does not
but wen you are the only truth there is ;then it is impossible for you to lie, is it not ?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2011,12:08) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,20:34) One last thing, When Jesus claims to be the Alpha and the Omega.
Jesus is never called the “Alpha and Omega”. That is said only about Jesus' own God.Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,20:34) How can that be if it is as you say? Wouldn't God have to make Jesus first?
God DID make Jesus first. That's why Jesus is God's FIRSTBORN. (Hebrews 1:6)Col 1:15-16 is basically saying, “Jesus HAS TO BE the firstborn of all creation, BECAUSE all [other] things were created THROUGH him.”
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,20:34) Then how can this scripture claim that NOTHING was made without Jesus? Unless they BOTH were together at the beginning!
When it says that God is the Maker of ALL things, does it mean that God made HIMSELF? No, right? And we are smart enough to know that God made all things EXCEPT for Himself, right? Use that same reasoning with Jesus. If it is said that “ALL things” were created through him, then it stands to reason that HE was NOT created through HIMSELF, right?So in the case of God, it means “all things EXCEPT Himself”. In the case of Jesus, it means “all things EXCEPT for himself AND the God who brought him forth in the first place”.
Mike,What is the difference between colossians 1:15 in KJV which says:
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
and your bible .
Quote Col 1:15-16 is basically saying, “Jesus HAS TO BE the firstborn of all creation, BECAUSE all [other] things were created THROUGH him.” To me first born of all creation is quite different from the first born of every creature,since scientifacally we are well advanced, and we all know that some kind of humans at least has been on earth since three and a half million years, and the bible states that the first man Adam was created only six thousand years ago?
The first born of all creation gives us an impression that Jesus spirit was the very first creature as a spirit ever created,and then Jesus created all the creatures. which it doesn't work since Jesus created all whatever was created.Even all the spiritual creatures.
How,according to the above, could Jesus the creator of all,by the power of the Holy Spirit from the Father create Himself when He is not in existance?
While the first born of every creature, the one which I believe, it gives us more insights that Jesus already in existance within the Father,created every creature through His own spirit,by the power of the Holy Spirit from the Father.
Look at it from the other end,it would be the Father,
first created His heavenly hosts through His Son's Spirit already within Him,and then emanated His Son, to recreate every visible creature of our world,with,in,and for His Son's spirit with the power of the Holy Spirit.Genesis 1:3
Through this insight put the Son of God always within the Father as a spirit being like He stated in John 17
John 17 :5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
peace and love in Jesus Christ
Charles
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 07 2011,10:33) Charles,
Humbly speaking like you said, the only way I believe I will totally and deeply understand God is when I die. Peace and love-Mark
Mark, I agree
I think trying to put God into human words, is impossible. I know God is love.Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 06 2011,12:18) I should also add:
She says the flesh part of God was manifested in Jesus, Jesus as the flesh, while God as the Mind was in Heaven, I think she said??
Hi Charles.
You said:“This is for you to reflect upon for quite a while.
Luke 10:22 NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE SON IS ,AND NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE FATHER IS
Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him”.
This bolded part came to mind when I reflected on that verse,
“For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For who among men knows the things of a man, except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so, no one knows the things of God, except God's Spirit. But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that were freely given to us by God. Which things also we speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things”.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2011,11:33) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,20:03) I asked you if begetting a Son who was NOT God, but the Son OF God was impossible for God. -Mike This is a pointed question, from a human finite mind. Anything is possible for God. He can manifest himself any way he wants to. Be it a burning bush, three people talking to Abraham, or Jesus.
So then it IS possible for God to beget a Son who is not God Himself? Good, because that's exactly what He did.
You give yourself too much credit in comprehending God. It is also possible for him to humble himself to become human, a human that is in all respects identical to his Father, a clone as it were with power and glory due him. He proved that with all the miricles he performed You are making one sided statements. This is possible, and it is true. Glory to my Lord and savior Jesus Christ, forever and ever, Amen.Quote What is the difference between colossians 1:15 in KJV which says: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
and your bible .
Quote
Col 1:15-16 is basically saying, “Jesus HAS TO BE the firstborn of all creation, BECAUSE all [other] things were created THROUGH him.”To me first born of all creation is quite different from the first born of every creature,since scientifacally we are well advanced, and we all know that some kind of humans at least has been on earth since three and a half million years, and the bible states that the first man Adam was created only six thousand years ago?
The first born of all creation gives us an impression that Jesus spirit was the very first creature as a spirit ever created,and then Jesus created all the creatures. which it doesn't work since Jesus created all whatever was created.Even all the spiritual creatures.
Actually “first born of all creation” is correct. Will you convert now
?
Millions of years…some kind of humans …that are just theories!!!
God bless
vjesnikQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2011,12:08) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,20:34) One last thing, When Jesus claims to be the Alpha and the Omega.
Jesus is never called the “Alpha and Omega”. That is said only about Jesus' own God.Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,20:34) How can that be if it is as you say? Wouldn't God have to make Jesus first?
God DID make Jesus first. That's why Jesus is God's FIRSTBORN. (Hebrews 1:6)Col 1:15-16 is basically saying, “Jesus HAS TO BE the firstborn of all creation, BECAUSE all [other] things were created THROUGH him.”
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,20:34) Then how can this scripture claim that NOTHING was made without Jesus? Unless they BOTH were together at the beginning!
When it says that God is the Maker of ALL things, does it mean that God made HIMSELF? No, right? And we are smart enough to know that God made all things EXCEPT for Himself, right? Use that same reasoning with Jesus. If it is said that “ALL things” were created through him, then it stands to reason that HE was NOT created through HIMSELF, right?So in the case of God, it means “all things EXCEPT Himself”. In the case of Jesus, it means “all things EXCEPT for himself AND the God who brought him forth in the first place”.
Nope. He is the firstborn of creation because he was part of God from the first moment of existance. God is first. So was Jesus.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2011,12:09) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,20:46) He said,”When you see me you see the Father”. Straightforward.
And I asked you before, Do you think Jesus IS the Father?
He is both God and Man. He is both. Those whom he wishes to reveal this to understand this.He is God , and on earth His God was his Father while he was here. You haven't been up to heaven, so you cannot comprehend this.
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