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Quote (carmel @ Dec. 07 2011,00:38) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 06 2011,07:20) Charles Quote Pierre, I appreciate your effort,but to me,with every respect it is rather a confused belief.
Christ was with God in the beginning
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,Pr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
Pr 8:23 I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.
Pr 8:24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth,Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
Pr 8:31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.MK 14:21 “For the Son of Man is to go just as it is written of Him;
LK 9:56 for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.”
JN 3:13 “ No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
JN 8:28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.
JN 6:62 “What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?
JN 13:31 Therefore when he had gone out, Jesus *said, “Now is the Son of Man glorified, and God is glorified in Him;
tell me how is one gloritied trough the other
ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT ;
Mt 3:16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him.
Lk 3:22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove
Mk 1:10 As Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove.
Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
IN THESE SCRIPTURES IT SAYS THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT STOPED ABOVE CHRIST NO,IT NEVER SAYS THAT IT WHENT IN ;HIM ,RIGHT
AND WAS A SIGN TO JOHN THE BAPTIST,RIGHT Jn 1:30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’
Jn 1:31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”
Jn 1:32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.
Jn 1:33 I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
Jn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”Pierre
[/QUOTE]
Pierre,
read this post which I did post to Mike,and you would be able to be aware how.
Mike ,
I saw that Statue and this is what I say:
The Pieta is a MOUNTAIN OF ART,in Carrara marble which was cut from a MOUNTAIN and created by a MOUNTAIN OF A SCULPTURE.
So the PIETA ARE THREE MOUNTAINS IN ONE STATUE!
Now since you beleive in logic,logically speaking,
I will tell you What I say after I saw this MOUNTAIN of art, which was mysteriously hidden in a MOUNTAIN, and was revealed by a sculpture, who is also a MOUNTAIN.
The mountain is dominant, colossal, and magnificent, but it is also in a way a mystery.
That exceptional, unique, brilliance, and pure white was hidden, and only till Michelangelo cut from it and it was exposed the most pure white marble in all of the existing marbles, and manifested it through a statue like Pieta. Through this work of art, glorified that mountain in the unique and genuine beauty of. the Carrara marble ,the heart of the mountain.
Through few reflections Mike, I could conclude that in comparison, The Mountain is in the same position as all Mighty God is in His splendor, and mysteries.
His exceptional, unique, brilliance, and pure spirit was hidden, and only till the Holy Spirit cut from Him (and the spirit of God moved)and it was discovered the most pure LOVE in all the existing love and manifested it in the body of Jesus to glorify that unique and genuine beauty of the heart of the Father.
John 17: 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
It had to be the mountain to glorify the statue of Pieta in what it is today.
It had to be God to glorify the body of Jesus in what He is today.
In the same instant, it had to be the statue of Pieta in order to glorify the genuine beauty of the Carrara marble, the heart of the mountain. So in one instant both the mountain and Pieta were and are glorified.
In the same instant, it had to be the body of Jesus in order to glorify the genuine beauty of the love of God of the Father. So in one instant both the Father and Jesus were and are glorified.
It was Michelangelo as the unique, superb ,terrific, and wonderful MOUNTAIN OF A SCULPTURE that made it possible for us to admire that kind of beauty of both THE MOUNTAIN AND PIETA.
So the Mountain, and Pieta glorified also Michelangelo, likewise, Michelangelo glorified them both
In comparison,It was the Holy Spirit as the unique, superb ,terrific, and wonderful MOUNTAIN OF A SPIRIT that made it possible for us to admire that kind of MOUNTAIN of LOVE both of THE FATHER and of JESUS CHRIST.
Daniel 2:55………… and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
So God, and Jesus glorified also the Holy Spirit, likewise, the Holy Spirit glorified them both. The reason that He abide in us.
So I would without a doubt assert that the MOUNTAIN, MICHELANGELO, and PIETA are one complete harmony, and have one thing in common that they are ONE GLORIFIED MOUNTAIN in Pieta.
Also I would without a doubt assert that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one complete harmony, and have one thing in common that they are ONE GLORIFIED GOD in JESUS CHRIST.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
To conclude Mike :.
WH
EN THE PEOPLE LOOK AT THE STATUE, they would definitely say that the MOUNTAIN, remained THE SAME MOUNTAIN, but glorified in one statue: PIETA.This also I would apply it to God ,and definitely say that Almighty God remained the same God but glorified in Jesus Christ for eternity.
CharlesI had it read already ,but you did not answer my questions and so you have created a diversion ,what you say is not scriptural exept for what you took out of the scriptures context,
You do not let scriptures guide you ,you are telling what scriptures should be,and believe that,
Pierre
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 06 2011,08:42) Quote (carmel @ Dec. 06 2011,03:45) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 05 2011,15:12) Quote (carmel @ Dec. 05 2011,03:23) …Jesus used the term I AM in order to prove that He was the God of the old testament…
Hi Charles,If that is what you believe, tell me then, why did Jesus say this…
Take heed lest any deceive you: For many shall come
in my name, saying, {i am}; and shall deceive many. (Mark 13:5-6)Hebrew has no such wording as εγω ειμι {ego eimi} in Geek and {i am} in English.
God bless
Ed JQuote Hebrew has no such wording as εγω ειμι {ego eimi} in Geek and {i am} in English.
Edj,Hebrew not,they has no such wording . This is “אני הווה”
Hi Charles,“אני הווה” means “I present”, NOT 'i am'; try again.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Charles?Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 06 2011,18:03) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 06 2011,08:42) Quote (carmel @ Dec. 06 2011,03:45) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 05 2011,15:12) Quote (carmel @ Dec. 05 2011,03:23) …Jesus used the term I AM in order to prove that He was the God of the old testament…
Hi Charles,If that is what you believe, tell me then, why did Jesus say this…
Take heed lest any deceive you: For many shall come
in my name, saying, {i am}; and shall deceive many. (Mark 13:5-6)Hebrew has no such wording as εγω ειμι {ego eimi} in Geek and {i am} in English.
God bless
Ed JQuote Hebrew has no such wording as εγω ειμι {ego eimi} in Geek and {i am} in English.
Edj,Hebrew not,they has no such wording . This is “אני הווה”
Hi Charles,“אני הווה” means “I present”, NOT 'i am'; try again.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Charles?
Edj,After all christ spoke ARAMAIC.
Now what did Jesus Said when they came to arrest HIm and they all fell to the ground and WHY??
Charles,
Scripture says that God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son so that we would be saved.
YOU say that God so loved the world that He Himself came as a man so that we would be saved.
Why does your view not line up with the words of scripture?
Quote (carmel @ Dec. 07 2011,17:07) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 06 2011,18:03) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 06 2011,08:42) Quote (carmel @ Dec. 06 2011,03:45) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 05 2011,15:12) Quote (carmel @ Dec. 05 2011,03:23) …Jesus used the term I AM in order to prove that He was the God of the old testament…
Hi Charles,If that is what you believe, tell me then, why did Jesus say this…
Take heed lest any deceive you: For many shall come
in my name, saying, {i am}; and shall deceive many. (Mark 13:5-6)Hebrew has no such wording as εγω ειμι {ego eimi} in Geek and {i am} in English.
God bless
Ed JQuote Hebrew has no such wording as εγω ειμι {ego eimi} in Geek and {i am} in English.
Edj,Hebrew not,they has no such wording . This is “אני הווה”
Hi Charles,“אני הווה” means “I present”, NOT 'i am'; try again.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Charles?
Edj,After all christ spoke ARAMAIC.
Now what did Jesus Said when they came to arrest HIm and they all fell to the ground and WHY??
Hi Charles,I believe it has to do with a 'forced agreement'
between YHVH and satan before the world began;
and the reason why we are all here as human beings.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2011,06:59) Quote (carmel @ Dec. 05 2011,09:55) Pierre, I appreciate your effort,but to me,with every respect it is rather a confused belief.
Christ was with God in the beginning
Again: A spirit within a spirit or two beings in One spirit?
Two completely separate beings. The Spirit of One was the life-force of the other, just as that same Spirit is the life-force of every living thing.Mike.
How can a separate being depend on another being and in the same time they are COMPLETELY SEPARATE??
Scripture teaches that the Father and the Son are one.
John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1 John:1 :2 For the life was manifested; and we have seen and do bear witness, and declare unto you the life eternal, which was with the Father, and hath appeared to us
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
If the word was God isn't it One Spirit.
John 1:1 :2
“For the life was manifested”
So if God is the invisible life, and Jesus is the visible life, and scripture says that : the Life became visible, Jesus is God in flesh)
“declare unto you the life eternal.”
So Jesus is the eternal life.
It says also :which was with the etrnal Father,
Again,the fact that the Father is eternal, and John is declaring that Jesus the eternal life, was with Him.
Isn't it enough proof that it is the same spirit??
In John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
If Jesus while on earth, was also in the bosom of the Father…. isn't it the same spirit??
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.“be with me where I am;”
Again, Jesus while on earth is confirming that He is in heaven,
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven.
Again while on earth, the Son of man,definitely not as human, is in heaven definitely God as spirit!!
And still isn't the same spirit??
are you telling me then that in all these Christians there are millions of spirits, not one Holy Spirit ?
peace and love in JESUS
CharlesQuote The Spirit of One was the life-force of the other, Scripture teaches that the Father is in the Son, and the Son
is in the Father.where is the superiority of any spirit?
Scripture teaches that no one knows WHO THE FATHER IS EXCEPT THE SON,AND NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE SON IS ACCEPT THE FATHER.
where is the superiority of any spirit?
Scripture teaches that the Son glorified the Father,and the Father glorified the Son.
where is the superiority of any spirit?
Since the Father needed His Son's spirit to establish His kingdom,and the Son needed His Father to become Man God, and right now He is in Command in the glory of His Father.
where is the superiority of any spirit?
Since God on Earth could be established as the only true visible GOD in flesh through Jesus in the spirit of the Father,
where is the superiority of any spirit?
Since the Father could not achieve what Jesus achieved by the Father as a human being.
where is the superiority of any spirit?
Now explain this:
John 16:15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
John 17: 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine;
where is the superiority of any spirit?
Since ALL things that the Father has belong to Jesus,and ALL things include your life force imagination as well otherwise it is not All THINGS.
Isn't it an evidence that Jesus was God in flesh as a human being???
peace and love in Jesus
CHARLES
Charles
Quote Scripture teaches that the Father is in the Son, and the Son
is in the Father.where is the superiority of any spirit?
Christ according to scriptures his subdue to his father ,
Christ according to scriptures his the first of the creation of God ,
how can the father be in the son ,sins the son was created as his first creation,THIS SEEMS TO BE YOUR PROBLEM, IN TRYING TO MAKE CHRIST HIS FATHER AND THE FATHER CHRIST THE SON,
the superiority lays that God his superior to all things and above all thing that he created,
Christ is superior to all that is below himself ,here at that level Christ has supremacy ,and he still then submit to his father ,
if you require the scriptures to back this up,i will be placed after you have shown you back up of your believes ,
Pierre
Quote (carmel @ Dec. 08 2011,10:25)
If the word was God isn't it One Spirit.
Ah, but the Word WASN'T THE God. The Word was A god who was WITH THE God in the beginning. This is actually how the Greek is written, Charles. There are TWO mentioned by the title “theos” in John 1:1. Only ONE of those two was called “THE theos”. The other was WITH THE theos, and was himself a theos. Just like Satan is also called theos in scripture. When one is called “theos” in scripture, it does not mean that one is THE Theos.See? Your simple misunderstanding of John 1:1, (fueled by a Trinitarian machine trying desparately to CAUSE that misunderstanding), is a main part of why your understanding of the scriptures is so far off from what the scriptures actually teach.
Quote (carmel @ Dec. 08 2011,10:25)
Again,the fact that the Father is eternal, and John is declaring that Jesus the eternal life, was with Him.Isn't it enough proof that it is the same spirit??
John 5:26
For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.If it was the same spirit, then the Father never would have had to GRANT Jesus to have life in him, for Jesus would have already had that life in him all along.
Quote (carmel @ Dec. 08 2011,10:25)
In John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.If Jesus while on earth, was also in the bosom of the Father…. isn't it the same spirit??
First of all, 1:18 is another time where Jesus is called “theos”. Where the KJV has “only begotten Son”, the oldest and best Greek mss have “only begotten god”. So once again, Jesus is called “theos”, but we can be clear that THE theos is not intended, because THE theos was not begotten by anyone at any time.Secondly, John is speaking of the teachings of Jesus, who is NOW in the bosom of the Father. The verse does not say that Jesus was in the bosom of the Father WHILE he was on earth. It says he is there NOW.
Thirdly, being “in the bosom” of someone is akin to “being in their hearts”, or “being in their thoughts”, etc. It is a metaphorical way of saying God is very close to His Son, and loves him very much.
Quote (carmel @ Dec. 08 2011,10:25)
“be with me where I am;”Again, Jesus while on earth is confirming that He is in heaven,
Charles, start with verse 13. Jesus says, “I am coming to you now”. That means he was not with the Father at the time he said that. And Jesus is saying, “AFTER I COME TO YOU, I want them to be with me where I am (AT THAT TIME), so they can see my true glory………..”Quote (carmel @ Dec. 08 2011,10:25)
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven.Again while on earth, the Son of man,definitely not as human, is in heaven definitely God as spirit!
What?!? Where does this verse say that Jesus was in heaven AT THE SAME TIME he was on earth?Charles, this is how false doctrines get started in the first place. You are ILLOGICALLY twisting scriptures to say things they don't even come close to actually saying. And in the process, you are completely ignoring the fact that Jesus PRAYED TO his Father, who WAS in heaven. Was Jesus both on earth and in heaven, praying to HIMSELF? Was he asking HIMSELF to let the cup pass away from him?
Quote (carmel @ Dec. 08 2011,10:25)
are you telling me then that in all these Christians there are millions of spirits, not one Holy Spirit ?
There are seven of them mentioned in Revelation. And angels are called “ministering spirits”. Demons were also called “unclean spirits”. And man is said to have his own “spirit”.The point is that all of the spirits originated from the Original Spirit……….God Almighty. And Charles, next time post only ONE scripture for us to discuss. I think you'll be able to see more clearly that these scriptures don't actually say what you've been brainwashed into thinking they say, if we take it one at a time.
peace and understanding to you Charles,
mikeQuote (carmel @ Dec. 08 2011,10:29) Since ALL things that the Father has belong to Jesus,and ALL things include your life force imagination as well otherwise it is not All THINGS. Isn't it an evidence that Jesus was God in flesh as a human being???
1 Corinthians 15
27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.See Charles? One is “God”, and one is “the Christ/Messiah/Anointed one” OF “God”.
The one that God anoints cannot possibly be the God who anointed him.
So Charles, is EVERYTHING under Jesus right now? Or does Paul speak of an exception to the “everything”?
Charles, I know you posted other “proofs” in the post I'm responding to. But like I told you before, I will usually only pick ONE point to address. So feel free to keep posting 20 “proofs” in one post if you want to. But know that 19 of them will go unaddressed by me.
If you want me to address the others, then put them in a DIFFERENT post, one at a time. (And I don't mean I want to see 20 different posts from you tomorrow. I mean that you should post ONE point that you think says Jesus is God, and let me address that ONE point before posting a different one. That way, I can show you ONE POINT AT A TIME that your “proofs” are only proof of a vivid imagination fueled by a deep, personal, and illogical desire for Jesus to be the God he is the Son, Messiah, Lamb, Servant, and Priest OF.)
peace,
mikeQuote (terraricca @ Dec. 09 2011,10:09) Charles Quote Scripture teaches that the Father is in the Son, and the Son
is in the Father.where is the superiority of any spirit?
Christ according to scriptures his subdue to his father ,
Christ according to scriptures his the first of the creation of God ,
how can the father be in the son ,sins the son was created as his first creation,THIS SEEMS TO BE YOUR PROBLEM, IN TRYING TO MAKE CHRIST HIS FATHER AND THE FATHER CHRIST THE SON,
the superiority lays that God his superior to all things and above all thing that he created,
Christ is superior to all that is below himself ,here at that level Christ has supremacy ,and he still then submit to his father ,
if you require the scriptures to back this up,i will be placed after you have shown you back up of your believes ,
Pierre
Quote Christ according to scriptures his subdue to his father , Christ according to scriptures his the first of the creation of God
Pierre,
define these according to your worldly wisdom
KJV
Colossians 1:15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
1Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
What actually is the meaning of:
firstborn of every creature:
AND
then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
PEACE AND LOVE IN JESUS
CHARLES
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 09 2011,10:41) Quote (carmel @ Dec. 08 2011,10:25)
If the word was God isn't it One Spirit.
Ah, but the Word WASN'T THE God. The Word was A god who was WITH THE God in the beginning. This is actually how the Greek is written, Charles. There are TWO mentioned by the title “theos” in John 1:1. Only ONE of those two was called “THE theos”. The other was WITH THE theos, and was himself a theos. Just like Satan is also called theos in scripture. When one is called “theos” in scripture, it does not mean that one is THE Theos.See? Your simple misunderstanding of John 1:1, (fueled by a Trinitarian machine trying desparately to CAUSE that misunderstanding), is a main part of why your understanding of the scriptures is so far off from what the scriptures actually teach.
Quote (carmel @ Dec. 08 2011,10:25)
Again,the fact that the Father is eternal, and John is declaring that Jesus the eternal life, was with Him.Isn't it enough proof that it is the same spirit??
John 5:26
For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.If it was the same spirit, then the Father never would have had to GRANT Jesus to have life in him, for Jesus would have already had that life in him all along.
Quote (carmel @ Dec. 08 2011,10:25)
In John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.If Jesus while on earth, was also in the bosom of the Father…. isn't it the same spirit??
First of all, 1:18 is another time where Jesus is called “theos”. Where the KJV has “only begotten Son”, the oldest and best Greek mss have “only begotten god”. So once again, Jesus is called “theos”, but we can be clear that THE theos is not intended, because THE theos was not begotten by anyone at any time.Secondly, John is speaking of the teachings of Jesus, who is NOW in the bosom of the Father. The verse does not say that Jesus was in the bosom of the Father WHILE he was on earth. It says he is there NOW.
Thirdly, being “in the bosom” of someone is akin to “being in their hearts”, or “being in their thoughts”, etc. It is a metaphorical way of saying God is very close to His Son, and loves him very much.
Quote (carmel @ Dec. 08 2011,10:25)
“be with me where I am;”Again, Jesus while on earth is confirming that He is in heaven,
Charles, start with verse 13. Jesus says, “I am coming to you now”. That means he was not with the Father at the time he said that. And Jesus is saying, “AFTER I COME TO YOU, I want them to be with me where I am (AT THAT TIME), so they can see my true glory………..”Quote (carmel @ Dec. 08 2011,10:25)
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven.Again while on earth, the Son of man,definitely not as human, is in heaven definitely God as spirit!
What?!? Where does this verse say that Jesus was in heaven AT THE SAME TIME he was on earth?Charles, this is how false doctrines get started in the first place. You are ILLOGICALLY twisting scriptures to say things they don't even come close to actually saying. And in the process, you are completely ignoring the fact that Jesus PRAYED TO his Father, who WAS in heaven. Was Jesus both on earth and in heaven, praying to HIMSELF? Was he asking HIMSELF to let the cup pass away from him?
Quote (carmel @ Dec. 08 2011,10:25)
are you telling me then that in all these Christians there are millions of spirits, not one Holy Spirit ?
There are seven of them mentioned in Revelation. And angels are called “ministering spirits”. Demons were also called “unclean spirits”. And man is said to have his own “spirit”.The point is that all of the spirits originated from the Original Spirit……….God Almighty. And Charles, next time post only ONE scripture for us to discuss. I think you'll be able to see more clearly that these scriptures don't actually say what you've been brainwashed into thinking they say, if we take it one at a time.
peace and understanding to you Charles,
mikeQuote Ah, but the Word WASN'T THE God. Mike,
Scriptures says:
THE WORD WAS GOD.
TO ME THAT IS FINAL.
Your argument of Satan is not valid for the simple reason that in John the word is God it is in the same sentence, and context of the deity.
Satan is called god on his own not in the same conext,and sentece where it refers to GOD.
Quote For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself If it was the same spirit, then the Father never would have had to GRANT Jesus to have life in him, for Jesus would have already had that life in him all along.
Mike, Jesus is a human being through the spirit of the Father
The Father has Only one spirit.
Now this spirit entered Mary's womb and she became conceived.
So the life which Jesus received, in order to be born as a human being,AND ALSO TO BECOME THE LIFE OF THE WORLD.
So Jesus is Man from the flesh of Mary,and spiritually through God.This made Him both the Son of man,and the Son of God.
Therefore the Father Himself became MAN THROUGH ONE SPIRIT FROM HIM.
My questions are :
What happened with Jesus spirit ?
Where did Jesus spirit came from?
If He was a complete different spirit, How could He be dependent from the Father?
to conclude:
What is the difference:
BETWEEN: THE FATHER and MY FATHER.???
I must quit
nowpeace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (carmel @ Dec. 10 2011,10:34) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 09 2011,10:09) Charles Quote Scripture teaches that the Father is in the Son, and the Son
is in the Father.where is the superiority of any spirit?
Christ according to scriptures his subdue to his father ,
Christ according to scriptures his the first of the creation of God ,
how can the father be in the son ,sins the son was created as his first creation,THIS SEEMS TO BE YOUR PROBLEM, IN TRYING TO MAKE CHRIST HIS FATHER AND THE FATHER CHRIST THE SON,
the superiority lays that God his superior to all things and above all thing that he created,
Christ is superior to all that is below himself ,here at that level Christ has supremacy ,and he still then submit to his father ,
if you require the scriptures to back this up,i will be placed after you have shown you back up of your believes ,
Pierre
Quote Christ according to scriptures his subdue to his father , Christ according to scriptures his the first of the creation of God
Pierre,
define these according to your worldly wisdom
KJV
Colossians 1:15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
1Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
What actually is the meaning of:
firstborn of every creature:
AND
then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
PEACE AND LOVE IN JESUS
CHARLES
CharlesQuote Colossians 1:15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Quote What actually is the meaning of: firstborn of every creature
the first of all beings ,things the start of creation,Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth……..all things were created by him and for him.
Quote then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
1Co 15:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself
if all will be subdue to Christ and then Christ subject himself to his father it also includes all who have been subdue by Christ ,BUT GOD IS MASTER OVER ALL.
Pierre
Quote (carmel @ Dec. 09 2011,11:04) Mike, Scriptures says:
THE WORD WAS GOD.
TO ME THAT IS FINAL.
Your argument of Satan is not valid for the simple reason that in John the word is God it is in the same sentence, and context of the deity.
Satan is called god on his own not in the same conext,and sentece where it refers to GOD.
Actually Charles,It is the CONTEXT of John 1:1 that makes it clear that the Word is not THE Theos that he was WITH. God Almighty cannot possibly be WITH God Almighty. That CONTEXT should be enough to tell you that the Word was A god, but not THE God.
Here's what the 25 TRINITARIAN scholars of NETNotes, (who would like nothing more than to agree with you that the Word was THE God), have to say about it:
Colwell’s Rule is often invoked to support the translation of θεός (qeos) as definite (“God”) rather than indefinite (“a god”) here. However, Colwell’s Rule merely permits, but does not demand, that a predicate nominative ahead of an equative verb be translated as definite rather than indefinite. Furthermore, Colwell’s Rule did not deal with a third possibility, that the anarthrous predicate noun may have more of a qualitative nuance when placed ahead of the verb.Charles, are you able to see that there are THREE possibilities for the proper translation of John 1:1? Those three options are:
1. God
2. A god
3. God-like, divine, having qualities similar to God's qualitiesCharles, I REALLY want you to recognize and acknowledge for me that you understand all THREE of these options. I don't ever want to hear you say, “Scriptures says: THE WORD WAS GOD. TO ME THAT IS FINAL.” Because the majority of Trinitarian biased English translations is NOT the “final” answer on John 1:1 – nor do their translations make any sense. (Which you'll see in a minute.)
There are THREE different possible translations. Charles, do you understand this? Will you please ACKNOWLEDGE that you understand this for me?
Now, let me show you the ONLY one of those THREE possibilities that the 25 TRINITARIAN scholars of NETNotes eliminates; and why:
The construction in John 1:1c does not equate the Word with the person of God (this is ruled out by 1:1b, “the Word was with God”)Charles, do you see that the ONLY possibility that these scholars ruled out is YOUR possibility? Did you notice their reason for ruling out YOUR possibility? It was because it is common sense to most people that the Word couldn't BE THE PERSON OF GOD if the Word was WITH THE PERSON OF GOD.
This is what I'm also trying to tell you. So if you are unable to accept this common sense teaching from me, then at least accept it from these 25 experts in the Greek language that also want Jesus to BE the God he is the Son of – just like you do.
So if anything, 2 Corinthians 4:4 has more of a chance of calling Satan “God Almighty”, based on the context, than John 1:1 has of calling the Word “God Almighty”. Because in 4:4, it doesn't point out that the god known as Satan was WITH “THE God“, thereby eliminating any possibility that Satan WAS “THE God“. In 1:1, that fact IS pointed out for us.
peace,
mikeQuote (terraricca @ Dec. 10 2011,05:29) Quote (carmel @ Dec. 10 2011,10:34) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 09 2011,10:09) Charles Quote Scripture teaches that the Father is in the Son, and the Son
is in the Father.where is the superiority of any spirit?
Christ according to scriptures his subdue to his father ,
Christ according to scriptures his the first of the creation of God ,
how can the father be in the son ,sins the son was created as his first creation,THIS SEEMS TO BE YOUR PROBLEM, IN TRYING TO MAKE CHRIST HIS FATHER AND THE FATHER CHRIST THE SON,
the superiority lays that God his superior to all things and above all thing that he created,
Christ is superior to all that is below himself ,here at that level Christ has supremacy ,and he still then submit to his father ,
if you require the scriptures to back this up,i will be placed after you have shown you back up of your believes ,
Pierre
Quote Christ according to scriptures his subdue to his father , Christ according to scriptures his the first of the creation of God
Pierre,
define these according to your worldly wisdom
KJV
Colossians 1:15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
1Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
What actually is the meaning of:
firstborn of every creature:
AND
then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
PEACE AND LOVE IN JESUS
CHARLES
CharlesQuote Colossians 1:15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Quote What actually is the meaning of: firstborn of every creature
the first of all beings ,things the start of creation,Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth……..all things were created by him and for him.
Quote then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
1Co 15:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself
if all will be subdue to Christ and then Christ subject himself to his father it also includes all who have been subdue by Christ ,BUT GOD IS MASTER OVER ALL.
Pierre
Quote the first of all beings ,things the start of creation, Pierre,
I asked to define:
the first born of every creature.
Since you are confused I will guide.
How many creatures are there in the whole creation of our world??
Give any number which you feel is acceptable this is only to start our argument.
Don't try to deviate,yourself,because this is aimed to lead us to the truth which is vital for our awareness about Jesus function in nature.
peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 05 2011,23:04) Quote (carmel @ Dec. 05 2011,00:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,07:59) 
What are you saying, Charles? That you'd be okay with “I will be what I will be” as long as you can form it around your “Jesus is God” theory?Quote What are you saying, Charles? That you'd be okay with “I will be what I will be” as long as you can form it around your “Jesus is God” theory? First of all Mike, it is not only, mine the theory that Jesus is God ,but the majority of all Christians.
Second,
I always accepted it.
But I have every right to apply it the way I am enlightened, like you are enlightened by the world wisdom.
I am still waiting for your answer ,whether you accept and believe that Jesus is the same genuine GOD spirit ,who was always eternal with the Father.
Since the Fullness of the Father dwelled in HIM, like He is now glorified in Him after all.
What kind of spirit Jesus has then, if it’s not the same one spirit, to dwell the fullness of God within??
Isn’t it common sense this for you??
Corinthians 12:13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit
How many ONE SPIRIT IS THERE??
PEACE AND LOVE IN JESUS
CHARLES
Hi Charles.If God is spirit, and Jesus is flesh, and Gods spirit was in Jesus.. if Gods spirit is in any true believers, if true followers are one with the son and father just as they are one, it doesn't make us God, though we are part of God. So Jesus was part of God and still is. If you pray to God the father, if your heart is right with the son and with any other true believers.. they are one just as the father and son are one though seperate. When Jesus said 'glorify me with the glory I had before the world' I believe that means they were seperated while Jesus was on earth to a point, and because of this Jesus was weakened to a human state, and on death and returning to heaven, was back with God, strengthened again, and so it goes, the word lives on in his true people. Though they are weakened at times, if they are called and drawn by the father and taught by the son, true reconciliation is returning to God… and then being complete with the father and son, as one, but not one.
The only one true God is the source of all things the father.
If you turn on the tap.. the tap isn't the source, the rivers arent the source, not the actual source. So it is with the father who is the source of all. Jesus never said he was the Father, only that they are one AS they (his followers) are one. One in spirit, one in agreement. And the distinguishing factor between true believers is the love they have for one another. Not love as the world has love (egocentric self seeking) but true love for one another.
Do you see what Im saying here?
Whats your view?Quote Do you see what Im saying here?
Whats your view?I like your post!
SHIMMER,
Permit me to take advantage of your request in order to give you not my view only, but humbly speaking, I will also give you some light, and it’s up to you and to whomever want to believe in it.
Now I feel though that you are rushing to conclusions.
I am obliged to post a lot of scriptures purposely in order for you to verify the assertion in them regarding my point that:
God Almighty would eventually be manifested in the entire perfected creatures in various spiritual flesh bodies for eternity.
The embodiment of His own substance, Jesus Christ’s Spirit, established for us mortals, as His Son, , the LAMB of GOD, His temple, His church, His house, His bride, to abide WITHIN as the SOLE versatile and complex SPIRIT . ALL under Him.The Father within the Son, the opposite of how they were before the very first beginning.
Matthew 19:30But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first
IT was the Father FIRST in His complex unfathomable spirit, that through His Son within Him commences the spiritual creation. But it would be also the Father LAST to own the visible and invisible spiritual flesh body of His Son for eternity TO ABIDE WITHIN. All in All. And the last shall be first, eternally.
This, I am also convinced that it is scriptural AS YOU WILL SEE!!
Job 7: 17 What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?
Job here is asking a significant question to God.
I myself, ask the same question, what is there hidden and so mysterious and in the same time so treasured and loved by God, that He sacrificed His Son’s spirit to create our world by commencing it right from the filthiest and evil state level to elevate,and magnify him to His realm and even abide in him THROUGH HIS SON, in every being no matter what.
I ask even another true deep question. Is it really that God wanted to magnify and glorify only His Son in order for Him to abide within as He is now in Jesus Christ body, or rather GOD would abide,and MANIFEST HIMSELF WITHIN ALL THE SPIRITUAL AND FLESH CREATED BEINGS ,BUT IN THE HUMBLE STATE OF HUMAN STRUCTURE LIKE HIMSELF ?
Considering the fact that millions and millions and millions of years ago, God, through, in, and with Jesus Spirit,His substance, with the power of the Holy Spirit commenced this most mysterious exodus from within Himself. Scattering Himself and burried,in then existed messed up world to initiate our creation from the rock bottom of darkness through the evolution process to become the first born of every creature ever existed, in order to preserve the eternal life for the projected humans?
Matthew 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
TO AS MANY AS YOU HAS GIVEN HIM!!
GOT IT?? In simple terms therefore if Jesus spirit left the Father as a spirit being, to create all through Him, He definitely on His return would remain and maintain the same spirit throughout but transformed as a BODY IN SPIRITUAL FLESH.
39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day
I repeat: OF ALL WHICH HE HAS GIVEN ME I SHALL LOSE NOTHING
And to clarify, Since up to now only Je
sus body is united with the Father, IN BODY SOUL AND SPIRIT, therefore, to be whole, and complete with the Father IN THE SAME STATE, and also as He was before He left ,before the world was, all beings no matter what must also, mysteriously, and unfathomable for us, DUST, unite with the Father, since ALL IN HIM, ALL WITH HIM, AND ALL FOR HIM, otherwise it won’t be ALL at all. or ALL IN ALL!!!Now let’s start with the spirit first.
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
Now ,water and blood, two entities, obvious, water symbolically spirit, blood symbolically matter, therefore the Holy Spirit as the spirit, and Jesus spirit transformed into matter.THE IMMACULATE FLESH OF MARY THROUGH NATURE!!
Matthew 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: 46Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
THE SUBSTANCE WHICH GOD WANTED TO BECOME MAN IN FLESH AND BLOOD.
John 4: And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together. 37And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth.
Isn’t it clear enough in the above scriptures, One soweth, the Holy Spirit and another reapeth. Jesus Christ through His death on the cross.
Now, when we read 1Corinthians 12:1:31 it is a chapter that is keenly written to make us aware of the kind of person human being is.
I suggest that you read it ALL slowly and reflect profoundly, and you would realize that Paul purposely went into lot of details which rather seemed a bit exaggerated. But I myself, and thanks to the Holy Spirit, became aware that the reason that he went into so much specifically was, that he was referring to the actual person which would be assembled in heaven as the body of Jesus Christ through all the created beings ESPECIALLY HUMANS.
First he described what the function of the Holy Spirit is, and made it clear that, there is only ONE spirit, and only He decides what, how, how much, which, and to whom would be given.
1Corinthians 12:4 There are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the SAME SPIRIT is the source of them all.
5There are different kinds of service, but we serve the same Lord.
6God works in different ways, but it is the same God who does the work in all of us.
7A spiritual gift is given to each of us so we can help each other.
11 It is the one and only Spirit who distributes all these gifts. He alone decides which gift each person should have
Then He switched onto the body, and again He talked specifically, and emphasized, that ALL the parts of the body are needed. But the section which I considered vital is when he referred to our privacy parts of the body which it is clear enough that metaphorically he referred to us humans in comparison to the angels.
Let’s read the crucial parts:
12 The human body has many parts, but the many parts make up one whole body. So it is with the body of Christ.
13….. But we have all been baptized into one body by one Spirit, and we all share the same Spirit.
Clear enough or not?? : but the many parts make up one whole body.
SO IT IS WITH THE BODY OF CHRIST IN HEAVEN.
NOW AS I SAID ABOVE TO BE ONE WHOLE BODY DEFINITELY ALL THE CREATED BEINGS WOULD FORM ONE WHOLE BODY OF JESUS CHRIST ON THE LAST DAY.
IN FACT IT IS BEING BUILT.
.Again he made the stress: But we have all been baptized into one body by one Spirit, THEREFORE TWO ENTITIES UNITED IN ONE BODY: WATER AND BLOOD.
So in heaven it would be ONE BODY FORMED BY ALL BEINGS.
SPIRITUAL AND CARNAL, INVISIBLE AND VISIBLEWe all share the same spirit. AND EVEN MORE,THE SAME IT WOULD BE IN HEAVEN SINCE WE WOULD BE GLORIFIED IN JESUS
18But our bodies have many parts, and God has put each part just where he wants it.
Now reflect on this: “God has put each part just where he wants it”. Obvious at the very end on the day of the Lord it would be His purified body to abide within for eternity.
22In fact, some parts of the body that seem weakest and least important are actually the most necessary.
Here it says clear enough that, we as humans were in the worst evil state, and rather not important since we were dead through Adam’s sin. BuT in reality WE ARE THE MOST NECESSARY. Since It is through our bodies, the visible substance which GOD WOULD BE MANIFESTED IN.
23And the parts we regard as less honorable are those we clothe with the greatest care. So we carefully protect those parts that should not be seen,
God, although we are the least of all His beings, He clothed us with the greatest care of His image and purified us through the blood of His Son with His death on the cross.
24while the more honorable parts do not require this special care. So God has put the body together such that extra honor and care are given to those parts that have less dignity.
The angels, who are more honorable, do not require special care, and since we have less dignity, God gave us more honor, and care, through the glorification of our human body in Jesus Christ
27All of you together are Christ’s body, and each of you is a part of it.
The conclusion is obvious again: ALL OF US UNITED IN HEAVEN WOULD BE CHRIST’S BODY FOR GOD TO ABIDE WITHIN FOR ETERNITY.
Job 7: 17 What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?
Peace and love in Jesus.
Charles.
charles
Quote Pierre, I asked to define:
the first born of every creature.
Since you are confused I will guide.
How many creatures are there in the whole creation of our world??
Give any number which you feel is acceptable this is only to start our argument.
Don't try to deviate,yourself,because this is aimed to lead us to the truth which is vital for our awareness about Jesus function in nature.
peace and love in Jesus
Charles
;the first born of every creature.; and what is the difference between this and the following ;;the firstborn over all creation ;
could you define what it means ??
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 14 2011,06:48) charles Quote Pierre, I asked to define:
the first born of every creature.
Since you are confused I will guide.
How many creatures are there in the whole creation of our world??
Give any number which you feel is acceptable this is only to start our argument.
Don't try to deviate,yourself,because this is aimed to lead us to the truth which is vital for our awareness about Jesus function in nature.
peace and love in Jesus
Charles
;the first born of every creature.; and what is the difference between this and the following ;;the firstborn over all creation ;
could you define what it means ??
Pierre
Quote the first born of every creature.; and what is the difference between this and the following ;;the firstborn over all creation ; could you define what it means ??
Pierre,
I asked to define:
the first born of every creature.
Since you are confused I will guide.
How many creatures are there in the whole creation of our world??
Your answer is the definition,and you will discover the difference .
Please answer my question and you will be aware of the truth.
It's up to you,don't deviate yourself from the truth!!
peace and love in Jesus
Chrarles
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 14 2011,17:41) Charles You ask me how many creatures their are below the first one right ?
Pierre
Pierre,Just give a random sensible number any will do, this simply to start our discussion and the I will answer according to what you answer.
This is to proove how wrong all those who change a simple word like creature into creation,which although it seems the same in fact it's not,for the simple reason that when we use the first born of every creature it gives more light regarding the spirit of Jesus'function in creation.
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