Charles' Jesus is God Proof Texts

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 22 2011,08:59)

Quote (carmel @ Sep. 21 2011,10:15) Wrong. First it isn’t within our intelligence as mortal beings, that we could say that the Father is greater then Jesus, as a spirit being. When Jesus stated in John 14:28  “I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.” He wasn’t referring to divinity or power, but He was referring to His state as a human being, which is useless without the power of the Holy Spirit from the Father. Hi Charles, You'll have to make up your mind about something very important:  Was Jesus GOD in the flesh on earth, or was he NOT?  You can't have it both ways.   He either WAS God while he was on the earth.  Or he WASN'T God while he was on the earth.  I need to know which one you believe before moving forward. peace, mike

Hi Mike,

A fractal is not the entirety of its substance.
But a fractal is a complete picture of the entire substance.
It's pretty obvious to me that Jesus (born in flesh) was a fractal of God.

As the saying goes: “a seed doesn't fall far from the tree”.
Jesus said he was the “Son of God”; and so, a fractal.
: kids are like their parents; a chip off the old block

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[carmel]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 22 2011,08:59)

Quote (carmel @ Sep. 21 2011,10:15) Wrong. First it isn’t within our intelligence as mortal beings, that we could say that the Father is greater then Jesus, as a spirit being. When Jesus stated in John 14:28  “I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.” He wasn’t referring to divinity or power, but He was referring to His state as a human being, which is useless without the power of the Holy Spirit from the Father. Hi Charles, You'll have to make up your mind about something very important:  Was Jesus GOD in the flesh on earth, or was he NOT?  You can't have it both ways.   He either WAS God while he was on the earth.  Or he WASN'T God while he was on the earth.  I need to know which one you believe before moving forward. peace, mike

Mike,

Quote

You'll have to make up your mind about something very important:  Was Jesus GOD in the flesh on earth, or was he NOT?  You can't have it both ways.

You make me laugh!!

I proved in all my posts on heaven net that He is God in flesh on earth.

I myself cannot have it both ways, but God can, and now I am posting scriptures first as proof that He was God.

You receive according to what you believe in.

Matthew 10: 40He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. 41He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.

Quote

He either WAS God while he was on the earth.  Or he WASN'T God while he was on the earth.  I need to know which one you believe before moving forward.

Don’t tell me that you still don’t know me. On heaven net there isn’t any one who read my posts,  and  doesn’t know that Charles believe that God was Man in flesh on earth in Jesus Christ!!!

Jesus stated that He is both Son of man, therefore man ,and also Son of God Therefore God!  

But why didn't he just stated “I AM GOD !”?  That would have cleared the confusion.

To me as I stated previously in other posts, He would have been killed instantly, so He opted the Son of God, and son of man logo to achieve all what He wanted.

It is of utmost importance to understand God, and who Jesus was.
This to realize that although He was God in Flesh, God imposed upon Himself, as man in flesh, certain constrictions and limitations, in respect of human character  which were subject to all men. This is proved in Hebrews 2:17 where it says  
“in all things it behoved to be made like unto his brethren” in all things! Mike

So He  Himself like all  humans, was not righteous to call himself God, especially as a Jew. It would have been a contradiction in the totality of Himself of being both God and  man.

but from the other hand, accepted worship notwithstanding the fact that He Himself said to Satan
'Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.”

This He did in order for all those who are from God to accept  that He was God!! And to keep Satan and his allies perplexed about His identity.

It was vital for Jesus, to keep Satan and his allies perplexed whether He was God, a prophet,or the antichrist himself,otherwise, he wouldn’t have conspired to kill Jesus.

1 Corinthians2:8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.  and bye bye glorification then.

But from the other hand, Jesus must proof that He was both ordinary man, and also God. Two in one, He was fully divine and fully man,

If He did something that would have made it clear that He wasn’t an ordinary man, it would have been quite clear that Jesus never suffered, and felt pain, never mind dying like us, humans, and resurrected Like God.

The fact that Jesus  never opened His mouth would have made it clear that He never suffered during His passion, But again the fact that Jesus  demonstrated perfect  human qualities, there’s no doubt that He was an ordinary man, and suffered, and endured pain to prove that He possessed the virtue of God.

The fact that there are people who believe that Jesus was God/Man, hypostatic union, and people, like you, who believe that He was only a man. It proves that Jesus succeeded in His plan. The truth is always there!!

Now, first hereunder are scriptures which proves Jesus

AS God

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.      

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

  Jesus confirms that He himself while dead raises Himself.

But infact His Father raised Him. Therefore He is the same person.  
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Jesus in heaven while on earth. Only God is omnipresence.  

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, (Isaiah 54:13 )And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Isaiah 54:13 All your sons will be taught by the Lord, (God)

They will all be taught by God.(Master Jesus)  Everyone who listens to the Father(in Jesus)and learns from him comes to me.

These are references to Jesus as the only true teacher, and true God.

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you,for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Jesus making it clear that He is I Am the only true name of God.  In John, at least he stated I AM  eight times. Reflect, in those days no Jew was allowed to pronounce God’s name. never mind claim that He is the I AM    

John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again.

Got it, He was sent,and raised by the Father

And Jesus confirms again that He Himself laid His life  and while dead He Himself would come back to life .Therefore He is the same person.GOD

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

 After all He is Lord and God!!

1 John:5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life

NIV Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

The old testament confirms that
all scriptures was a reference to Jesus as Almighty God and Man.        

Corinthians 2:5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ,      

Colossians 2:9 in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person    

8 But to the Son: Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of justice is the sceptre of thy kingdom.   So it is the Son’s kingdom as well, therefore God.        

9 Thou hast loved justice, and hated iniquity: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

How many Gods are there?? Only ONE. The Father and the Son with the power of the Holy Spirit

12 And as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: but thou art the SELFSAME, and thy years shall not fail. Therefore God Himself

1Timothy 3:16 And evidently great is the mystery of godliness, which was manifested in the flesh,
 
Yes Mike, it is a mystery there’s no way for us to comprehend it, be humble and accept it .  

Notice He was NOT prophesied to be “God the Son with us!” But “
God with us!  ” He was NOT called “the everlasting Son!” But
“the everlasting Father.”
He was NOT “God the Son manifest in flesh!” Jesus was all the fullness of Deity, all the fullness of God!

I WILL POST THE ONE TO PROOF ALSO THAT HE WAS A MAN,NOT FOR YOU THOUGH,BECAUSE YOU ARE CERTAIN THAT HE WAS A MAN.

Peace and Love in Jesus Christ

Charles

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Sep. 26 2011,12:43)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Was Jesus GOD in the flesh on earth, or was he NOT?  You can't have it both ways.   You make me laugh!! I proved in all my posts on heaven net that He is God in flesh on earth. Matthew 10: 40He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. 41He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward. Don’t tell me that you still don’t know me. On heaven net there isn’t any one who read my posts,  and  doesn’t know that Charles believe that God was Man in flesh on earth in Jesus Christ!!!

Hi Charles,

Please forgive my ignorance.  I haven't read a lot of your posts in their entirety.  I'm usually very busy keeping up with my own correspondence, and have limited time.  I now understand that you think Jesus was God on earth, in the flesh – and knowing is half the battle, as they say.    That information will come in handy later on in the discussion.

I do find it interesting that you would post a passage from Matthew where Jesus claimed to be a prophet OF God, and try to use that passage as proof that he WAS God.  

But, I am determined to keep this thread focused on the purpose for which it was created.  And that was to go through your long list of “Jesus is God” proof scriptures to see if they really DO say that Jesus is God.

Your first one had to do with Jesus having power and God having power.  But the fact that Jesus also has power does not make him God Almighty, right?  

Did you want to discuss the power of Jesus any further before we dismiss your first point as NOT being proof that Jesus is God and move on to the second one?

I believe we've discussed that any and all power Jesus has came FROM his own God.  Do you agree with this?

Micah 5:4
He will stand and shepherd his flock in the strength of Jehovah, in the majesty of the name of Jehovah his God.

This is just one scripture that gives us an idea of whose strength Jesus really rules in.  He rules by the strength and command of his own God, Jehovah. Do you agree with this scripture?

peace,
mike

[carmel]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 27 2011,12:06)

Quote (carmel @ Sep. 26 2011,12:43) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Was Jesus GOD in the flesh on earth, or was he NOT?  You can't have it both ways.   You make me laugh!! I proved in all my posts on heaven net that He is God in flesh on earth. Matthew 10: 40He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. 41He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward. Don’t tell me that you still don’t know me. On heaven net there isn’t any one who read my posts,  and  doesn’t know that Charles believe that God was Man in flesh on earth in Jesus Christ!!! Hi Charles, Please forgive my ignorance.  I haven't read a lot of your posts in their entirety.  I'm usually very busy keeping up with my own correspondence, and have limited time.  I now understand that you think Jesus was God on earth, in the flesh – and knowing is half the battle, as they say.    That information will come in handy later on in the discussion. I do find it interesting that you would post a passage from Matthew where Jesus claimed to be a prophet OF God, and try to use that passage as proof that he WAS God.   But, I am determined to keep this thread focused on the purpose for which it was created.  And that was to go through your long list of “Jesus is God” proof scriptures to see if they really DO say that Jesus is God. Your first one had to do with Jesus having power and God having power.  But the fact that Jesus also has power does not make him God Almighty, right?   Did you want to discuss the power of Jesus any further before we dismiss your first point as NOT being proof that Jesus is God and move on to the second one? I believe we've discussed that any and all power Jesus has came FROM his own God.  Do you agree with this? Micah 5:4 He will stand and shepherd his flock in the strength of Jehovah, in the majesty of the name of Jehovah his God. This is just one scripture that gives us an idea of whose strength Jesus really rules in.  He rules by the strength and command of his own God, Jehovah.  Do you agree with this scripture? peace, mike

Mike,

Quote

Your first one had to do with Jesus having power and God having power.  But the fact that Jesus also has power does not make him God Almighty, right? This is just one scripture that gives us an idea of whose strength Jesus really rules in.  He rules by the strength and command of his own God, Jehovah.  Do you agree with this scripture?

That's what you conclude though, not what actually is!!!

John 17:10  All mine are yours, and yours are mine!!  

Therefore Jesus power is also the Father’s, and vice versa, they are one God.

Also all references to the Father are also references to the Son!  they are one God..

That'e what I am convinced about!

Luke 10:18 And he said to them: I saw Satan like lightening falling from heaven.  

In Luke 10:18 :  Jesus Himself as one in the Father  saw Satan falling from heaven.  

  10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

10:24 For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.    

So in 10: 22….NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE SON, AND THE FATHER ARE  …..!!

Got it Mike, you’re better far off if you believe that the Son is the same one God since there is enough proof that the  Father is well pleased with His fullness in Jesus.

Only a God could  be an equivalent carnal body for God nothing less. NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE SON IS……!!
That’s as far as we could perceive regarding this mystery.

In 10:24 According to Jesus kings and prophets desired to see what the apostles saw, and heard.
Whom? The Father or the Son? Since according to you the Son didn’t exist yet.
They desired to see God no?  therefore  Jesus is God?

   Genesis 18:3  And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.      

Whom did Abraham meet at his tent, in Genesis 18:3? The Father or the Son.? or both as one God

   John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you

John 17:6…….. thine they were, and thou gavest them to me……..    

Now in John 15:16 Jesus confirms that He Himself chose His apostles, in John 17:16 Jesus stated that they were His Father’s , and  they were given  to Him.

The fact that they were His Father’s,  it is clear that Jesus was referring to His apostles, when  they were purposely created first as spiritual beings by Jesus Himself when He was one with the Father.
Therefore Jesus Himself first He chose them when He was still as a spirit being in the Father during creation, then He chose them as humans, this is confirmed in John 1:13,and  17:16. when He stated that they were not of the world, therefore they were born of God through the Holy Spirit as humans.

  John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.  

So here Jesus is confirming that His apostles were identical to Him,from above not from the world,Satan's property,obvious as spiritual beings,

Also  it is a clear situation where Jesus is confirming that He is the same God, since He is stating that they were His Father’s and they were given to Him, when in fact, He Himself created and chose them.

  DRB version: John 8:25 They said therefore to him: Who art thou? Jesus said to them: THE BEGINNING, who also speak unto you.

                       
Rev.22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.  

Who is the beginning ?  The Father, the Son or both? As one God?

So,all that scriptures which you are so anxious to discuss, and according to you is a reference to the Father, is also a reference to the Son.

Also, when I look at scriptures, I see both the Father and the Son in it.

You from the other hand are separating the Father from the
Son.

peace and love in Jesus Christ

Charles

[carmel]

Now read Romans 1:20:23.

 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things    

To whom these statements are directed to the Father or to the Son, OR TO BOTH?

Who is THE INVISIBLE THINGS OF HIM FROM THE CREATION OF THE WORLD. (from GENESIS 1:3) The Father , the Son, or both.?

What “ARE CLEARLY SEEN”?

To whom  “EVEN HIS ETERNAL POWER AND GODHEAD”  belong, to the Father ,to the Son, or to both?

How  “ THEY KNEW GOD”? which God the Father or the Son, or both??

How and when “THEY GLORIFIED HIM NOT AS GOD?” Is this a reference to the Father ,to the Son, or to both?

Who is  “ THE GLORY OF THE UNCORRUPTIBLE GOD?” God the Father ,the Son, or both??

To whom is the reference CHANGED ……………….INTO AN IMAGE MADE LIKE TO CORRUPTIBLE MAN………….?” to the Father ,to the Son, or to both?

   

Quote

But, I am determined to keep this thread focused on the purpose for which it was created.  And that was to go through your long list of “Jesus is God” proof scriptures to see if they really DO say that Jesus is God.

I know Mike that you are anxious to go to the next one.

If I wear you, I simply terminate this thread for the simple reason that I am not going to chat godless,

You are using logic, and God has no logic.

Now read this scriptures.

Timothy2:16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching will spread like gangrene……………..

The way you are logically and literally see scriptures regarding God, you put God in the same level of your wisdom, which is illogic, and absurd.

My Interest is that through your thread I give proof that Jesus was both man and God on earth.

Now more scriptures as man God!

Micah 5:2: But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in
Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Only God is everlasting, so Jesus was God and man.  

Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith: And let all the angels of God adore him.    

John 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,    

John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit

Jesus as man  possessed the spirit of  Almighty God in His fullness, therefore Jesus was both God in His spirit, and Man in flesh. On denying this it would limit the spirit of God which was owned by Jesus.

Matt. 2:2 – “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews?  For we saw His star in the east, and have come to worship Him.”

Since He was God with us, Emmanuel

Matt. 14:33 – “And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, “You are certainly God’s Son!” (the fullness of God.)

Matt. 28:9 – “And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them.  And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him.     As God.   Jesus accepted.     

John 9: 38 : And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.”

“
Daniel 7:13:14

In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

John 10: 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God
Philippians 2:6:8:6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”
Who is equal to God, but God!

Peace and love in Jesus christ

[mikeboll64]

So, is that a YES or a NO, Charles?  Do you have any scriptural proof that would convince us that the Son OF God having power makes him the God he is the Son OF?

I vote “NO”.  Because simply having power, (especially when we know that power was GIVEN BY God), does not make someone God Himself.

Your second point was:
Who is omniscient (all knowing)? 1 John 3:20 Colossians 2:2-3

That one's easy:
Matthew 24:36
“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

This disproves that Jesus is “all knowing”.  Nor does Col 2:2-3 even say Jesus is “all knowing” in the first place.

And although the following scripture doesn't really come out and shout it, I get the feeling that Jesus doesn't even know who the Father has prepared these places for:
Matthew 20:23
Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father.”

At the very least, this scripture explains that it is the GOD OF Jesus who has the right to grant these places……………NOT Jesus.

Charles, God Almighty does not have a God of His own.  Jesus does.

Any rebuttal to point #2?  Or are we ready to address #3?

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Btw Charles,

I do see all the scriptures and points you've been posting, such as: “Who is equal to God, but God!”  And they are all just as easily refuted as this one:  For someone to be EQUAL TO another, that someone cannot possibly BE that other.

So don't think I'm ignoring your points.  It's just that I won't refute 40 scriptures in one post.  It takes too long, and things start to get muddled.

So……………if you would like to change this thread from going through your list on page 1 to you posting one “Jesus is God” scripture at a time, we can do that.  Because, one at a time, I will show you that not one of your “Jesus is God proofs” REALLY says that the Son OF God is the God he is the Son OF.

Would you like to do that?  Or just keep going through your list on page 1?

[terraricca]

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 04 2011,13:47)

Now read Romans 1:20:23.  20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things     To whom these statements are directed to the Father or to the Son, OR TO BOTH? Who is THE INVISIBLE THINGS OF HIM FROM THE CREATION OF THE WORLD. (from GENESIS 1:3) The Father , the Son, or both.? What “ARE CLEARLY SEEN”? To whom  “EVEN HIS ETERNAL POWER AND GODHEAD”  belong, to the Father ,to the Son, or to both? How  “ THEY KNEW GOD”? which God the Father or the Son, or both?? How and when “THEY GLORIFIED HIM NOT AS GOD?” Is this a reference to the Father ,to the Son, or to both? Who is  “ THE GLORY OF THE UNCORRUPTIBLE GOD?” God the Father ,the Son, or both?? To whom is the reference CHANGED ……………….INTO AN IMAGE MADE LIKE TO CORRUPTIBLE MAN………….?” to the Father ,to the Son, or to both?     Quote But, I am determined to keep this thread focused on the purpose for which it was created.  And that was to go through your long list of “Jesus is God” proof scriptures to see if they really DO say that Jesus is God. I know Mike that you are anxious to go to the next one. If I wear you, I simply terminate this thread for the simple reason that I am not going to chat godless, You are using logic, and God has no logic. Now read this scriptures. Timothy2:16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching will spread like gangrene…………….. The way you are logically and literally see scriptures regarding God, you put God in the same level of your wisdom, which is illogic, and absurd. My Interest is that through your thread I give proof that Jesus was both man and God on earth. Now more scriptures as man God! Micah 5:2: But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Only God is everlasting, so Jesus was God and man.   Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith: And let all the angels of God adore him.     John 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,     John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit Jesus as man  possessed the spirit of  Almighty God in His fullness, therefore Jesus was both God in His spirit, and Man in flesh. On denying this it would limit the spirit of God which was owned by Jesus. Matt. 2:2 – “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews?  For we saw His star in the east, and have come to worship Him.” Since He was God with us, Emmanuel Matt. 14:33 – “And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, “You are certainly God’s Son!” (the fullness of God.) Matt. 28:9 – “And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them.  And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him.     As God.   Jesus accepted.      John 9: 38 : And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.” “ Daniel 7:13:14 In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. John 10: 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God Philippians 2:6:8:6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.” Who is equal to God, but God! Peace and love in Jesus christ

charles

Ro 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world.
Ro 1:9 God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you

Ro 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
Ro 1:19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

all your story about God man and the son being the father

Paul does not talk about those things ,you dragging your imagination be on what is written

no sense at all

you should start to use scriptures from the beginning of the writers view.

[carmel]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 04 2011,13:34)

So, is that a YES or a NO, Charles?  Do you have any scriptural proof that would convince us that the Son OF God having power makes him the God he is the Son OF? I vote “NO”.  Because simply having power, (especially when we know that power was GIVEN BY God), does not make someone God Himself. Your second point was: Who is omniscient (all knowing)? 1 John 3:20 Colossians 2:2-3 That one's easy: Matthew 24:36 “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. This disproves that Jesus is “all knowing”.  Nor does Col 2:2-3 even say Jesus is “all knowing” in the first place. And although the following scripture doesn't really come out and shout it, I get the feeling that Jesus doesn't even know who the Father has prepared these places for: Matthew 20:23 Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father.” At the very least, this scripture explains that it is the GOD OF Jesus who has the right to grant these places……………NOT Jesus. Charles, God Almighty does not have a God of His own.  Jesus does. Any rebuttal to point #2?  Or are we ready to address #3? peace, mike

Mike,

Quote

Matthew 24:36 “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

I would appreciate it if you read my posts.

I already answered the above scriptures.

It seams to me that since you never opted to comment on my statements it is quite clear that You accepted them.

Therefore Jesus is God Himself in Flesh.

There's is no reason to keep on chatting Godless.

All my statements are proofs for all that scriptures, but unless you reflect in depth,and pray God to give you light, instead of relying on our corrupted mind and expecting black and white to quench your wisdom of chatting only,you will never appreciate God's wisdom.

5If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Peace and love in Jesus Christ.

Charles

[carmel]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 04 2011,13:46)

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 04 2011,13:47) Now read Romans 1:20:23.  20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things     To whom these statements are directed to the Father or to the Son, OR TO BOTH? Who is THE INVISIBLE THINGS OF HIM FROM THE CREATION OF THE WORLD. (from GENESIS 1:3) The Father , the Son, or both.? What “ARE CLEARLY SEEN”? To whom  “EVEN HIS ETERNAL POWER AND GODHEAD”  belong, to the Father ,to the Son, or to both? How  “ THEY KNEW GOD”? which God the Father or the Son, or both?? How and when “THEY GLORIFIED HIM NOT AS GOD?” Is this a reference to the Father ,to the Son, or to both? Who is  “ THE GLORY OF THE UNCORRUPTIBLE GOD?” God the Father ,the Son, or both?? To whom is the reference CHANGED ……………….INTO AN IMAGE MADE LIKE TO CORRUPTIBLE MAN………….?” to the Father ,to the Son, or to both?     Quote But, I am determined to keep this thread focused on the purpose for which it was created.  And that was to go through your long list of “Jesus is God” proof scriptures to see if they really DO say that Jesus is God. I know Mike that you are anxious to go to the next one. If I wear you, I simply terminate this thread for the simple reason that I am not going to chat godless, You are using logic, and God has no logic. Now read this scriptures. Timothy2:16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching will spread like gangrene…………….. The way you are logically and literally see scriptures regarding God, you put God in the same level of your wisdom, which is illogic, and absurd. My Interest is that through your thread I give proof that Jesus was both man and God on earth. Now more scriptures as man God! Micah 5:2: But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Only God is everlasting, so Jesus was God and man.   Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith: And let all the angels of God adore him.     John 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,     John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit Jesus as man  possessed the spirit of  Almighty God in His fullness, therefore Jesus was both God in His spirit, and Man in flesh. On denying this it would limit the spirit of God which was owned by Jesus. Matt. 2:2 – “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews?  For we saw His star in the east, and have come to worship Him.” Since He was God with us, Emmanuel Matt. 14:33 – “And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, “You are certainly God’s Son!” (the fullness of God.) Matt. 28:9 – “And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them.  And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him.     As God.   Jesus accepted.      John 9: 38 : And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.” “ Daniel 7:13:14 In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. John 10: 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God Philippians 2:6:8:6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.” Who is equal to God, but God! Peace and love in Jesus christ charles Ro 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. Ro 1:9 God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you Ro 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, Ro 1:19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. all your story about God man and the son being the father Paul does not talk about those things ,you dragging your imagination be on what is written no sense at all you should start to use scriptures from the beginning of the writers view.

Terraricca

Quote

you should start to use scriptures from the beginning of the writers view.

Please give examples!!!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

Charles

[Proclaimer]

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 04 2011,17:33)

Therefore Jesus is God Himself in Flesh.

Have you not read that the Word became flesh?
Have you not read that God is not a man?
Have you not read that God was in Jesus Christ, and that God can be in us too. Since when does someone become God when God is in them?

[mikeangel]

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 04 2011,20:10)

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 04 2011,17:33) Therefore Jesus is God Himself in Flesh. Have you not read that the Word became flesh? Have you not read that God is not a man? Have you not read that God was in Jesus Christ, and that God can be in us too. Since when does someone become God when God is in them?

When they are the ONLY man to be born of the Holy Sririt, to a virgin, composed of literally Jehovah. Every other saint, prophet, martyr, rightious or otherwise upright man was born of sex, with a human man as his Father. Jesus was of God. To believe otherwise strips your grace,IMO, because faith in mere man cannot save you. His sacrifice saves you, and replaced all atonement sacrifices, because he was and is the PERFECT sacrifice. GOD crucified. None other can fulfill this but God. Can God be both God the Father and represent himself in human form in Jesus? YES! Nothing is impossible for God. You just have to have faith in Jesus, and that can and will save you. One day Everyone will kneel and worship and confess that Jesus is Lord, saved or not. Love, Mark

P.S. I liked reading your post Charles.

[mikeangel]

Charles,

I have been visiting this site for two years now. I remember being so shocked at being told Jesus was not God. It really distressed me. I have learned to have a thicker skin. I have enjoyed learning what different beliefs are out there, and discussing them with others. I have some advice for you my brother-You cannot win an arguement with some on here, like you will never win an arguement with a teenager or high powered lawyer. They can turn daylight into dark, but that doesn't change the truth. I have enjoyed reading your post, I went through the same thing. Don't let it get to you like I did. This is a fantastic Bible study and it does get you thinking and affirming where you stand. I believe you are on Rock. Peace man. Love,Mark

[carmel]

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 04 2011,22:38)

Charles, I have been visiting this site for two years now. I remember being so shocked at being told Jesus was not God. It really distressed me. I have learned to have a thicker skin. I have enjoyed learning what different beliefs are out there, and discussing them with others. I have some advice for you my brother-You cannot win an arguement with some on here, like you will never win an arguement with a teenager or high powered lawyer. They can turn daylight into dark, but that doesn't change the truth. I have enjoyed reading your post, I went through the same thing. Don't let it get to you like I did. This is a fantastic Bible study and it does get you thinking and affirming where you stand. I believe you are on Rock. Peace man. Love,Mark

Mark,

Quote

I have some advice for you my brother-You cannot win an arguement with some on here, like you will never win an arguement with a teenager or high powered lawyer. They can turn daylight into dark, but that doesn't change the truth. I have enjoyed reading your post, I went through the same thing. Don't let it get to you like I did. This is a fantastic Bible study and it does get you thinking and affirming where you stand. I believe you are on Rock.

The Glory is to Jesus our Lord God.

Thanks Mark I appreciate your possitive post,it is the first since I posted on heaven net ,and I am sure it will not be the last definitly sure,

The truth must come out,and that's what I beleive I was inspired to do.

I love confrontations with the aim of discover the truth about God.

Heaven  net made me more then a rock in my belief,and I never expected otherwise!

Galatians 1:10For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

peace and love in Jesus Christ

Charles

[terraricca]

charles

Quote

My Interest is that through your thread I give proof that Jesus was both man and God on earth. Now more scriptures as man God!

this is not reflected in the scriptures you quote ,and there is no scripture that says that Christ his GOD and MAN

Christ his a god like Moses was,a man like us but with a heavenly father ,and were does it say in scriptures that Christ has not everlasting live

and being in the FORM of God is NOT LIKE GOD ,even all humans are alike but they are not all CHARLES or PIERRE right???

so Jesus Christ was never anything else than the Son of God what he claim he was ,why do you try to make the son the father against the son s will,???

Pierre

[vjesnik]

There are a lot of opinions on who Jesus is and lot of biblical texts that different doctrines interpret differently. So how to know which interpretations are right?
To me most wise would be to start with this question: who God the Father says Jesus was/is? Once we have the answer to this question it would be wise to conclude that all interpretations/doctrines that doesn’t fit Fathers words are false.

God bless
vjesnik

[mikeangel]

All,
Confusion comes because we can only comprehend this in human terms. We cannot define or understand it. To claim that we do is arrogance. How did the Holy Spirit impregnate Mary? Was it her egg and God's seed? Was it all God? Who has the arrogance to claim to know? I believe he humbled himself to God as an example of humility to us, not that he didn't deserve it. Because he became a slave for us, we have no excuse for not being humble to him.

One more question: It is said that when he said the Father is greater than he was, that showed he was lesser, instead of him showing perfect humility as God in Human form. How could he say this-phrases capitalized for emphasis-Matt ch 25,

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:  

Mat 25:32   And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:  

Mat 25:33   And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.  

Mat 25:34   Then shall THE KING say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:  

Mat 25:35   For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:  

Mat 25:36   Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Ok, now-

Psalm 97:1 The Lord is KING: Let the earth rejoice.
Psalm 99:1 The Lord is KING:the peoples tremble; he is throned upon the cherubim; the earth quakes.
Psalm 99:4  THE KING in his might loves justice; you have established equity; justice and judgement in Jacob you have wrought. Extol the Lord our God,and worship at his footstool; holy is he!
Zechariah 14:16 All who are left of all the nations that came against Jerusalem shall come up year after year to worship THE KING , the Lord of host.

In Matthew 25, it is written that the “son of man” will come in glory and sit on his throne. And then he calls himself THE KING, and separation will be his to decide, on easy evidence.

Also he will come in GLORY, which gives him the position of God, because-
 
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

He is not God the Father on earth, yes, but no one can say he is not Lord, KING, ruler, or Judge, especially after he rose and ascended into heaven. He is the word made flesh, one in being with the Father. Peace and Love-Mark

[terraricca]

Quote (vjesnik @ Oct. 05 2011,17:35)

There are a lot of opinions on who Jesus is and lot of biblical texts that different doctrines interpret differently. So how to know which interpretations are right? To me most wise would be to start with this question: who God the Father says Jesus was/is? Once we have the answer to this question it would be wise to conclude that all interpretations/doctrines that doesn’t fit Fathers words are false. God bless vjesnik

vjesnik

very good question;and God say that Jesus is his son;

Jn 1:34 I (John the Baptist)have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”
Mt 3:17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
Mt 8:29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
even demon testify to that;;

but many are not content with this

[vjesnik]

An earlier text:

Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries. For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off. Exodus 23:20-23

People are commanded to obey this Angel, He has the authority to forgive/or not to forgive transgressions and Gods name is in Him.

God bless
vjesnik
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (John 17:3)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 04 2011,00:33)

Therefore Jesus is God Himself in Flesh.

Then who is the only begotten Son OF God?  

Jesus can either be God Most High, or he can be the Son OF God Most High – he cannot possibly be BOTH of these things. Which one does the scriptures say he is? (Mark 5:7)

Peace and love in Jesus Christ AND his God,
mike

[Author]

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