Charles&#39; Jesus is God Proof Texts

Participant

Quote (Pastry @ Oct. 15 2011,05:09)

Shimmer! You quoted here, yet you don;t believe that the Holy Spirit is the power of the Highest?

That the Holy Spirit is the power of God and not another being….You also will have to do away with all other Scriptures I quoted…. what do they mean to you???

Peace Irene

Hey Irene.

If the Holy Spirit was just a force, then how can he speak (Acts 13:2), how can he be grieved (Eph. 4:30), how can he have a will (1 Cor. 12:11), and how come Jesus calls him a he?

The Works of the Holy Spirit

Access to God – Eph. 2:18
Anoints for Service – Luke 4:18
Assures – Rom. 8:15-16; Gal. 4:6
Authors Scripture – 2 Pet. 1:20-21
Baptizes – John 1:23-34; 1 Cor. 12:13-14
Believers Born of – John 3:3-6
Calls and Commissions – Acts 13:24; 20:28
Cleanses – 1 Thess. 3:13; 1 Pet. 1:2
Convicts of sin – John 16:9,14
Creates – Gen. 1:2; Job 33:4
Empowers – 1 Thess. 1:5
Fills – Acts 2:4; 4:29-31; 5:18-20
Gives gifts – 1 Cor. 12:8-11
Glorifies Christ – John 16:14
Guides in truth – John 16:13
Helps our weakness – Rom. 8:26
Indwells believers – Rom. 8:9-14; Gal. 4:6
Inspires prayer – Eph. 6:18; Jude 20
Intercedes -Rom. 8:26
Interprets Scripture – 1 Cor. 2:1,14,Eph. 1:17
Leads – Rom. 8:14
Liberates – Rom. 8:2
Molds Character – Gal. 5:22-23
Produces fruit – Gal. 5:22-23
Empowers Believers – Luke 24:49
Raises from the dead – Rom. 8:11
Regenerates – Titus 3:5
Sanctifies – Rom. 15:16
Seals – Eph. 1:13-14; 4:30
Strengthens – Eph. 3:16; Acts 1:8; 2:4,1 Cor. 2:4
Teaches – John 14:26
Testifies of Jesus – John 15:26
Victory over flesh – Rom. 8:2-4; Gal. 4:6
Worship helper – Phil. 3:3

“But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asks me, Where do you go?
But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow has filled your heart.
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
And when he is come, he will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and you see me no more;
Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now.
But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you.
All things that the Father has are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.
A little while, and you shall not see me: and again, a little while, and you shall see me, because I go to the Father”.

October 14, 2011 at 11:06 pm#260692

terraricca

Participant

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 15 2011,16:15)

Quote (Pastry @ Oct. 15 2011,05:09)

Shimmer! You quoted here, yet you don;t believe that the Holy Spirit is the power of the Highest?

That the Holy Spirit is the power of God and not another being….You also will have to do away with all other Scriptures I quoted…. what do they mean to you???

Peace Irene

Hey Irene.

If the Holy Spirit was just a force, then how can he speak (Acts 13:2), how can he be grieved (Eph. 4:30), how can he have a will (1 Cor. 12:11), and how come Jesus calls him a he?

The Works of the Holy Spirit

shimmer

the holy spirit is the will of God ,and the will of God is made or executed by his special angels and today it is Christ that as received the power from his father to execute his full will,there is also the power of the spoken words of God in scriptures that to the wise ones it does many wanders ,God is spirit but no ones and nothing can stand against Gods will ,but God loves righteousness, truthfulness,and faithfulness of the heart,

Pierre

October 15, 2011 at 12:34 am#260694

Participant

Well said Terra.

I disagree with those here who say the Holy Spirit is JUST a power, force, whatever. No, the Holy Spirit is much more than that, though it is mystical what exactly happens as in, who, what, why, how, I don't know. But be assured that this Holy Spirit is capable of feeling, grieving, sending power, healing, guiding, speaking, working, etc.

If you were without the spirit you would be misguided, totally, with the spirit you are safe, strong, though in the world, you are lifted up, with God and the Son Jesus. Somehow it works as a line between the Father and Son as Jesus said – He (Jesus) will come and the Father and make their abode with us, and the Spirit is IN us, well, in the elect.

There are false spirits too. These false spirits can have lyeing signs and wonders, they can decieve, even the elect if possible.

So we disagree on this one thing. Irene Terra I am not a Trinitarian. I do not believe the Son IS God the Father nor equal to him,

The Father is God the son is the son the spirit is the spirit. These three and all believers are untited with one thing and that is love. But love is getting less and less in the world today. Lyeing spirits come to destroy what love there was. Its getting sadder and sadder for me by the minute and may God give us strength to endure till the end.

Peace & love all. I've said enough for now.

October 15, 2011 at 12:58 am#260695

terraricca

Participant

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 15 2011,18:34)

Well said Terra.

There are false spirits too. These false spirits can have lyeing signs and wonders, they can decieve, even the elect if possible.

So we disagree on this one thing. Irene Terra I am not a Trinitarian. I do not believe the Son IS God the Father nor equal to him,

Peace & love all. I've said enough for now.

shimmer

the holy spirit his Gods will ;? what his Gods will ?? this his Gods spirit of his being working,do you understand ??

that is why it can be greived because when God wants to do Good and men do evel he is greived,

he his greived at all the wicketness righteous people have to suffer in this age,and test .

but his will is also power to execute his will by all means at his disposal and there are many.

by his word the scriptures Gods will ,can change us ,move us,fortify us,encourage us, protect us,give us hope,guide us,bring us close to God,give us eternal live,give us faith,
and so be in us,and Christ his son also his will come to us because he has shown us how to be close to his father ,and so where he goes his father also goes.

and where the father goes Christ also goes ,

because God as given all powers to his son to accomplish his will ,what is to mbring all of creation in Gods domimion(kingdom)

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Col 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.
Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—
Col 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

this few verses tell all

Pierre

October 15, 2011 at 4:20 am#260703

Blocked

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 14 2011,01:38)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2011,15:19)

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 13 2011,18:04)

All, including Mike,

There are three.
Theres the Son, the Father, & the Holy Spirit.

This is all in scripture.

Agreed. Which ONE of them is “the only true God” according to Jesus? (John 17:3)

Mike, you agree that there are three?

In answer to you question, the Father.

Then that settles it, Shimmer. If our “only Lord” tells us that the “only true God” is the Father, then the Trinity Doctrine doesn't have a leg to stand on – which many of us have known all along.

I'm not sure on the Holy Spirit. Does it have a mind of its own or not? I don't know. Scripture says that only the spirit of man KNOWS man – making it seem like even OUR spirits are individual entities. But is this just poetic language?

JA is much more knowledgeable about the Holy Spirit than I am. Perhaps you could ask him what his thoughts are.

Right now I'm more focused on scripturally proving that Jesus is not the God he is the Son of – which, if you think about it, shouldn't even be necessary. Because IMO, EVERYBODY should be able to understand this as clearly as they understand that President Obama's son is not the President he is the son of.

October 15, 2011 at 4:22 am#260704

Blocked

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 14 2011,00:21)

John 17 :6 have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Hi Charles,

Read my signature line……………ALL THINGS belong to Jehovah.

What does the fact that I belong to Jehovah have to do with whether or not I existed from eternity?

October 15, 2011 at 4:54 am#260708

Participant

Mike, I'm not 100% sure on the Holy Spirit either. So at least you can SAY your not sure.

There is only one true God, the bible says, God the father. I go by what the bible says. If anyone wants to put their own twist to it, I don't listen.

October 15, 2011 at 4:56 am#260709

Participant

Good post Terra. I don't know 100%, so I have nothing more to say at the moment.

October 15, 2011 at 4:05 pm#260740

Blocked

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 14 2011,22:54)

There is only one true God, the bible says, God the father. I go by what the bible says. If anyone wants to put their own twist to it, I don't listen.

I agree that our only God is the Father. But then how do we bring our brothers Mark and Charles to the truth of the matter by simply refusing to listen to the twists they put on the scriptures?

I feel obligated to listen to those twists, and then try to scripturally show them that they ARE twists.

2 Timothy 3
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

October 15, 2011 at 5:06 pm#260744

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2011,11:08)

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 12 2011,09:20)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 12 2011,11:40)

1 Corinthians 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

In this scripture, if woman is not the man who is the head OF her, and man is not the Christ who is the head OF him, then Christ is also not the God who is the head OF him.

Can you argue this truth WITHOUT relying on “there is no logic with God”?

everything is possible for men but for GOD IS NOT POSSIBLE?

Hi Charles,

Yes – everything IS possible for God. So tell me: Is it POSSIBLE for God to be ONE Being who begot a DIFFERENT being as a Son unto Himself? Because that is exactly what the scriptures teach. They teach of ONE God who HAS a Son that is OTHER THAN and LESSOR TO the God who brought him forth.

Will you please address the bolded point in the quote above?

peace,
mike

Mike,

Human Logic is not concerned with the truth of the conclusion, but with the validity or invalidity of the argument.

God gave logic, reasoning, and common sense,to Adam but the logical reasoning of Eve and then Adam's braught the fall of man into sin. This does not prevent man from thinking logically, ie., according to the logical rules of inference.

As a sinner he may now make mistakes. Or he will accept false premises–premises contrary to the Bible, the Word of God–and will regard them as truth.

And on the basis of his false premises he will arrive at false conclusions. But that does not mean he cannot follow the logical rules of inference.

Logic is not concerned with the truth of the conclusion, but with the validity or invalidity of the argument.

That is, assuming the premises are true, does this conclusion follow? If so, the argument is valid, even though the conclusion may be false.

This is what the unbeliever does with the Scriptures. He assumes false unscriptural premises because he is spiritually dead and blind in his sins. The result is, his conclusions are false, even though he has followed valid logical rules of inference.

So your argument through human logic is right but not true.

Scriptures is the word of God. And if you use logic to determine and interpret scriptures you make God a liar.

Human logic and reasoning didn't believe the Son of God,they called a devil,a magician and they ended up killing Him.

In the wedding of Cana logically good wine was served first,and less good wine at the end,but for God the good wine must be served at the very end.

EXAMPLE:

Logically:

If a prophesy is not fulfilled that prophesy is not of God. Right!

If a prophesy is fulfilled that prophecy is of God . logically yes, but it is Wrong!

A prophecy could be fulfilled also if it is of Satan!

So using logic it doesn’t establish truth.

Human

Now reflect also this.

.16What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 17But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

therefore With the same argument, since who is joined to the Lord (Jesus Christ),is one Spirit.( Obvious with the spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ)

When Jesus( as man on earth) was Joined to the Lord God

Almighty was one spirit(Obvious with the Lord God Almighty)

Therefore Jesus Christ was One God Almighty in flesh.

Quote

Hi Charles,

[Yes – everything IS possible for God. So tell me: Is it POSSIBLE for God to be ONE Being who begot a DIFFERENT being as a Son unto Himself? Because that is exactly what the scriptures teach. They teach of ONE God who HAS a Son that is OTHER THAN and LESSOR TO the God who brought him forth.

Yes – everything IS possible for God. So tell me: Is it POSSIBLE for God to be ONE Being who begot]/b] (CAN YOU ASSERT THE DIFINITION OF THE WORD BEGOT IN TERMS OF GOD? FIRST?

BECAUSE IN HUMAN TERMS TO BEGOT A SON, THERE MUST BE A SEXUAL ACT,OR A FUSION BETWEEN TWO OPPOSING SUBSTANCES OF THE SAME SPECIES.

SOMETHING WHICH NEVER OCCURED IN THE BEGOTTING OF JESUS!

a DIFFERENT being, NO MIKE NOT A DIFFERENT BEING! JESUS IS THE EXPRESS IMAGE AND THE FULLNES OF GOD as a Son unto Himself?

Because that is exactly what the scriptures teach. NO IT IS NOT THE SCRIPTURES TEACH,IT'S MIKE THROUGH HIS WORLDLY CORRUPTED WISDOM.

Quote

explain how all was created in Him,with Him, and for HIm,and to whom the word Him is referring?? to the Father or to the Son?

To which scripture do you refer? Some speak of Jesus, others God, and still others speak of both of them.

[/QUOTE]

Since due to human logic, we ended up with so many Bibles and belief, can you yourself establish the truth through your own reasoning?

Quote

Now you only have to show us where scripture says the ONLY inheritor and judge is Jesus.

All in Him all by Him all for Him!

Isn’t that enough proof ?

Quote

Why do you base your understanding on only PART of the scriptures, Charles? Do you not see the last part: you are all CHILDREN OF the Most High? We will remain CHILDREN OF God after the resurrection. We will not BE God.

Logically mike children of God are Gods.

Since Logically children of dog are dogs

Quote

I want to know how Christians can take a statement that refers to Jesus and his Father as “WE” (as in TWO beings), and then come to the conclusion that only ONE is being spoken of.

It ‘s only you with your logical reasoning Mike!! Because you are not respecting God the way you should.

Quote

Where was he……………..WHEN? What are you asking m
e?

I appologise Mike I left this scripture out hereunder. Read:

matthew 23: 34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes:

My question is, since Jesus in this scriptures stated that He sent them prophets, scribes, and wise men, where was He??

Considering the fact that it a reference to the Old testament?

peace and love in Jesus Christ

Charles

October 15, 2011 at 5:31 pm#260746

Blocked

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 15 2011,11:06)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2011,11:08)

1 Corinthians 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

In this scripture, if woman is not the man who is the head OF her, and man is not the Christ who is the head OF him, then Christ is also not the God who is the head OF him.

Can you argue this truth WITHOUT relying on “there is no logic with God”?

Mike,

Human Logic is not concerned with the truth of the conclusion, but with the validity or invalidity of the argument.

What are your answers, Charles?

IS the woman also the same being as the man who is her head? YES or NO?

IS the man also the same being as Christ who is his head? YES or NO?

Is Christ also the same Being as God who is his head? YES or NO?

Your manifesto about human logic is flawed. If we cannot read the inspired scriptures that God made available to us, and come to LOGICAL conclusions, then what are the scriptures for?

“Thou shalt not commit murder”. Well, LOGICALLY, this means we should not murder other people. But, according to you, we cannot rely on our God-given logic to figure this out. So I could claim it means “Don't kill others” while YOU could claim it means the exact opposite of what it clearly says because we can't use our own logic to sort it out.

So YOU could be going around killing other people and claiming that God WANTS you to do that. And when it's brought to your attention that God specifically told us NOT to do that, you could just say, “You can't come to that conclusion using logic, because God is not logic. I have been shown that despite the words used, and the logical conclusion that anyone with half a brain would arrive at FROM those words, that this commandment REALLY MEANS that I should kill ALL people.”

October 15, 2011 at 5:42 pm#260747

Blocked

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 15 2011,11:06)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

Yes – everything IS possible for God. So tell me: Is it POSSIBLE for God to be ONE Being who begot?

CAN YOU ASSERT THE DIFINITION OF THE WORD BEGOT IN TERMS OF GOD? FIRST?

Begot: The act of being brought forth into existence by a father.

October 15, 2011 at 5:47 pm#260748

Blocked

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 15 2011,11:06)

Logically mike children of God are Gods.

Since Logically children of dog are dogs

God is not a species of creature, like dogs are. God is the ONE Omniscient Creator of ALL things. There is not “Godkind” species, made of of many members. At least not to “US” who believe we have but ONE God, the FATHER. (1 Cor 8:6)

Perhaps you'd be better off following Greek mythology, Charles.

October 15, 2011 at 5:57 pm#260749

Blocked

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 15 2011,11:06)

I appologise Mike I left this scripture out hereunder. Read:

matthew 23: 34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes:

My question is, since Jesus in this scriptures stated that He sent them prophets, scribes, and wise men, where was He??

Considering the fact that it a reference to the Old testament?

How is this a reference to the OT? It is merely Jesus saying that he is sending his disciples out among them – some of which will have been given the gift of prophecy, others the gift of teaching, and others the gift of wisdom, etc. (1 Cor 12:27-31)

October 15, 2011 at 6:02 pm#260751

Ed J

Participant

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 16 2011,04:06)

Logically mike children of God are Gods.

Since Logically children of dog are dogs

Hi Charles,

What's wrong with this logic?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 15, 2011 at 6:11 pm#260752

Blocked

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 15 2011,12:02)

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 16 2011,04:06)

Logically mike children of God are Gods.

Since Logically children of dog are dogs

Hi Charles,

What's wrong with this logic?

God bless
Ed J

Good point, Ed.

October 15, 2011 at 6:14 pm#260753

Ed J

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 16 2011,04:47)

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 15 2011,11:06)

Logically mike children of God are Gods.

Since Logically children of dog are dogs

Perhaps you'd be better off following Greek mythology, Charles.

Hi Mike,

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee,
that they also may be ONE in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Does this mean “ONE” in agreement or “ONE” in family, or are both applications equally true?

Perhaps we can agree on this English wording?
Logically mike children of God are God's progeny.
Since Logically children of dog are dog's progeny.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 15, 2011 at 8:03 pm#260756

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 16 2011,04:42)

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 15 2011,11:06)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

Yes – everything IS possible for God. So tell me: Is it POSSIBLE for God to be ONE Being who begot?

CAN YOU ASSERT THE DIFINITION OF THE WORD BEGOT IN TERMS OF GOD? FIRST?

Begot: The act of being brought forth into existence by a father.

Mike,

Now define the word Father in terms of God.

These titles are for us to get as close as possible to God .

Logically since God as a Father creates from nothing .

All Fathers also create from nothing.

But we all know that's not true,from the other hand when something is a complete mystery,or there's a doubt,we cannot use logic to establish truth, especially when we are searching God's truth.

Why all these bibles,and beliefs as I said, because we are full of pride,and not relying on God to give us light through the Holy Spirit.

we should not approach the Scriptures with the logic of this world, but allow the truth of the Scriptures to reach us in its spiritual form.

We need to see beyond the translated text and accept the message of the Bible in its purity. We should always ask ourselves, “What did Jesus mean by this! and reflect in depth.

peace and love in Jesus Christ

Charles

October 15, 2011 at 8:05 pm#260757

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 16 2011,05:02)

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 16 2011,04:06)

Logically mike children of God are Gods.

Since Logically children of dog are dogs

Hi Charles,

What's wrong with this logic?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

EDj,

Then the Son of God Is God.

peace and love in Jesus Christ

Charles

October 15, 2011 at 8:07 pm#260758