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Quote (Heavens @ Feb. 15 2008,08:09) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2008,05:36) Hi t8,
Misery loves company
I was once like Stu….in the sense that I didn't believe, but I'm at a loss as why he spends so much time preaching his theories at a believer's forum?
Why isn't Stu enjoying the company of others who have the same ideals? That's what I did, when I didn't believe.
Mind you, the Lord preaches to reach out to others and spread the word – maybe that's what the athiest religion preaches too?
You should not fear asking me directly! I have answered these questions often here already. I care about the truth. There are many lies and strawmen and misunderstandings posted here concerning science. I think ignorance should be no excuse for fundamentalists spreading lies about science. Of course, the only area they lie about is evolution because it is the only area they thing conflicts with the Judeo-christian holy book. Post things that are actually true about the fact of evolution eplained by the theory of natural selection and you will find me agreeing with you.Please explain to me what you mean by 'the atheist religion'. That by definition is an oxymoron.
Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2008,08:39) Hi,
From Darwin-american museum of natural history“Orchid plants, members of a vast and ancient family, enchanted Darwin late in life and intrigue us still, more than a century later. With over 20,000 species in the wild today, each astonishingly adapted to its habitat and its pollinator in shape, size, color or fragrance, orchids embody life's richness. And it is that richness that Darwin's work allows us to understand.”
Really?
For one such as yourself who knows evolutionary so well that he feels confident to criticise it, what could there be that needs explaining here?Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2008,11:41) Hi,
From
“On truth and reality”Darwin imagined it might be possible that all life is descended from an original species from ancient times. DNA evidence supports this idea.
Probably all organic beings which have ever lived on this earth have descended from some one primordial life form. There is grandeur in this view of life that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved. (Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species)What a wonderful expanding cycle of development, self determined and progressive,
with no end in sight to this amazing divine miracle
Wonderful yes, development yes, self determined no, progressive no.'With no end in sight' is wrong. The sun is half-way through its life. It will engulf the orbit of the earth within 15,000,000,0000 years.
'this amazing divine miracle' is your unsupported assertion for which there is no evidence.
Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2008,12:11) Hi KJ,
I agree.
The Whore controls the politics of earth.
I find it something of a relief that many christian fundamentalists do not vote or engage in national politics. Of course that did not stop the Exclusive Bretheren trying to buy the last New Zealand general election.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2008,17:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2008,08:39) Hi,
From Darwin-american museum of natural history“Orchid plants, members of a vast and ancient family, enchanted Darwin late in life and intrigue us still, more than a century later. With over 20,000 species in the wild today, each astonishingly adapted to its habitat and its pollinator in shape, size, color or fragrance, orchids embody life's richness. And it is that richness that Darwin's work allows us to understand.”
Really?
For one such as yourself who knows evolutionary so well that he feels confident to criticise it, what could there be that needs explaining here?Stuart
Hi Stu,
Astonishing is it not?
Order without organisation.
Mind bogglingly inane and puerile.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2008,18:24) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2008,17:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2008,08:39) Hi,
From Darwin-american museum of natural history“Orchid plants, members of a vast and ancient family, enchanted Darwin late in life and intrigue us still, more than a century later. With over 20,000 species in the wild today, each astonishingly adapted to its habitat and its pollinator in shape, size, color or fragrance, orchids embody life's richness. And it is that richness that Darwin's work allows us to understand.”
Really?
For one such as yourself who knows evolutionary so well that he feels confident to criticise it, what could there be that needs explaining here?Stuart
Hi Stu,
Astonishing is it not?
Order without organisation.
Mind bogglingly inane and puerile.
So my sarcasm was accurate, then?Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2008,04:32) Hi Stu,
The blind should not teach about what can be seen.
If you are as blind as I am, which you have not manged to argue against, what credibility do you have to claim this? At least I admit that there are areas of blindness for all including me. You seem to struggle in your claim of access to perfect sight as you stumble over the furniture of reality.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2008,17:25) You should not fear asking me directly!
My apologies, Stu…I was responding to another's message and speaking aloud to him really.Don't worry, I'd never be frightened to respond to you directly. You don't scare me!
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2008,17:25) There are many lies and strawmen and misunderstandings posted here concerning science. I think ignorance should be no excuse for fundamentalists spreading lies about science.
As I am sure there are many lies spread about Christianity in the various media.It's something one tends to end up rolling their eyes about and ignoring….otherwise one can end up feeling very frustrated, bitter and angry about `said lies'.
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2008,17:25) Please explain to me what you mean by 'the atheist religion'.
Like I said in a previous post, I was once an atheist and therefore witnessed first hand, how atheists tend to be like the Christians they so often derided.They rant and rave about `their way being right'.
The danger is that one can start to make `anything' into a religion, and some then turn it into an obsession.
Why can't both parties just believe what they want to believe? Live and let live?
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2008,17:38) Of course that did not stop the Exclusive Bretheren trying to buy the last New Zealand general election.
Oh, p-l-e-a-s-e!The Exclusive Brethren did not try to buy the last election. They spent a lot of money trying to pesuade us not to vote for a particular political party.
When MMP was mooted a Mr Shirtcliffe, a very rich and influential man spent thousands and thousands of dollars trying to sell STV to us.
What happened in both cases? People ignored them and used their single vote to vote how they wanted (although, personally, I wished we had listened to Mr Shirtcliffe!)
Big business and organisations have always donated large sums of money to political parties (many donate to both main parties), or they spend huge amounts trying to persuade us to vote how they want us to vote.
They take a gamble. Simple as that.
The individual reads all the facts that are put in front of them, then casts their vote to how they believe. The majority vote defines our fate for a short period of time.
The Exclusive Brethren have no power outside of their church.
Hi Heavens
(try saying that aloud…)
Stu: There are many lies and strawmen and misunderstandings posted here concerning science. I think ignorance should be no excuse for fundamentalists spreading lies about science.
Quote As I am sure there are many lies spread about Christianity in the various media.
To generalise about christians is to forget just how many contradictory christian faiths there are. Everything anyone says about christians is wrong for at least one group. There lies an important contrast. There are 2,000,000,000 christian churches (one in each christian head) and only one theory of evolution by natural selection. There are minor debates between scientists about the relative importance of the selection factors but they are not on the scale of trinitarianism arguments or the virtues of letting people die for lack of a blood transfusion.You strengthen my point. A lie about science, especially evolution, is truly and definitely a lie.
Quote It's something one tends to end up rolling their eyes about and ignoring….otherwise one can end up feeling very frustrated, bitter and angry about `said lies'.
Yep! I know that feeling too. And when I express dismay at ‘christians’ I know full well that most will say to themselves, ‘well that is not the kind of christian I am’.
Stu: Please explain to me what you mean by 'the atheist religion'.Quote Like I said in a previous post, I was once an atheist and therefore witnessed first hand, how atheists tend to be like the Christians they so often derided. They rant and rave about `their way being right'. But it is! You were!
You have not exactly made a passionate case for the virtue of religion here!
Quote The danger is that one can start to make `anything' into a religion, and some then turn it into an obsession.
Of course. But making observable reality into an obsession is at least a great deal less dangerous than obsessing over a fantasy world!Quote Why can't both parties just believe what they want to believe? Live and let live?
Absolutely. Can you let the JWs and visitors from Utah know that I would like to be left alone? Please tell the Catholics I want to decide what to watch on TV and do in the privacy of my own home. Please tell those who just must have a blasphemy law that I would like to be allowed take the lord’s name in vain without the technical threat of a fine or jail term. Tell those who want religion taught in science classes to leave the children alone and let them learn science.I applaud your appeal to the secular ideal. And look forward to a day when I really will be left alone by the self-deluded meddlers of the world. I am sure you are not one of them (at least not a meddler!).
Stuart
Stu: Of course that did not stop the Exclusive Bretheren trying to buy the last New Zealand general election.
Quote Oh, p-l-e-a-s-e! The Exclusive Brethren did not try to buy the last election. They spent a lot of money trying to pesuade us not to vote for a particular political party.
Which, given the dominance of the two large parties, is pretty much a definition of attempting to buy an election!Quote When MMP was mooted a Mr Shirtcliffe, a very rich and influential man spent thousands and thousands of dollars trying to sell STV to us. What happened in both cases? People ignored them and used their single vote to vote how they wanted (although, personally, I wished we had listened to Mr Shirtcliffe!) Big business and organisations have always donated large sums of money to political parties (many donate to both main parties), or they spend huge amounts trying to persuade us to vote how they want us to vote. They take a gamble. Simple as that. The individual reads all the facts that are put in front of them, then casts their vote to how they believe. The majority vote defines our fate for a short period of time. The Exclusive Brethren have no power outside of their church.
I think you are right. The Brethren tried to buy the election but ended up embarrassing the party they hoped would win, showing how politically naïve they really are. The Labour Party benefitted from a large donation motivated by the attempted interference by the Brethren. I am not committed either way to the idea of the Electoral Finance Act but I do believe in the power of advertising. Businesses do not spend millions on promotion for no return. I think it would be possible for a private group to influence an election, if they were rich and competent.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 16 2008,21:20) I wonder how all this can be related back to Charles Darwin… Stuart
Haven't we gradually evolved to this state?Tim
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 16 2008,21:08) Hi Heavens (try saying that aloud…)
It brings to mind the saying that uses `high heavens' in it, doesn't it?
Sorry to detract from the debate, folks….. carry on!
If there is no God, ultimately, philosophically, how can one talk about reality? If there is no God (there is a God) one cannot rationally believe that there is such a thing as truth, let alone decide what it is.
Proverbs 1:7
7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools despise wisdom and discipline.
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