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Hi SS,
You say
“The Catechism of the Catholic Church says “Our justification COMES FROM THE GRACE OF GOD. ”Who is the OUR?
Catholicism does not preach salvation
through repentance and faith,
followed by baptism in the water and the Spirit.So it does not offer salvation to it's members at all.
So the US does not include those enmeshed in it's witchcraft and sorcery.“Come out of her MY PEOPLE lest you suffer for her sins..”
Hi David,
Yes you misunderstand!
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH NEVER FORBIDS ANYONE TO MARRY IT ENCOURAGES MARRIAGE and does not allow divorce unless of VERY special cases where the marriage was forced and not of free will etc. I think you would be hard pressed to find another Church who proclaims marriage to be that sacred. The Catholic Church takes what Jesus said about marriage seriously. It is a life long commitment to death, marriage is one of the seven sacraments/pillars of the church.
Priestly celibacy is a required discipline, but not a dogma or doctrinal position of the Church. Also, no one is forced to be a priest (or nun), so no one is forced to be celibate, the vow of celibacy is a voluntary one. Eastern Rite Catholic priests marry, and even Latin (i.e. Western) Catholic priests can be granted a special dispensation (e.g. married Anglican or Episcopalian priests who convert to Catholicism). It's just that Catholics take seriously Paul's advice about how those who are unmarried can focus best on the affairs of the Lord. After wishing all men were unmarried like he was (1 Cor 7:7-8)
1Co 7:7 FOR I WOULD THAT ALL MEN WERE EVEN AS MYSELF [UNMARRIED]. But every one hath his proper gift from God: one after this manner, and another after that.
1Co 7:8 BUT I SAY TO THE UNMARRIED and to the widows: IT IS GOOD FOR THEM IF THEY SO CONTINUE, EVEN AS I.Paul ONLY recommends those who cannot contain themselves to marry!
1Co 7:9 But IF THEY DO NOT CONTAIN THEMSELVES, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to be burnt.Paul goes again teaching that those who are unmarried are better able to focus on the Lord!
1Co 7:32 But I would have you without carefulness. HE THAT IS UNMARRIED CARETH FOR THE THINGS THAT BELONG TO THE LORD, HOW HE MAY PLEASE THE LORD:
Do you think Paul really saying about married life?
1Co 7:33 But HE THAT IS MARRIED CARETH FOR THE THINGS THAT ARE OF THE WORLD, HOW HE MAY PLEASE HIS WIFE.
1Co 7:34 THERE IS DIFFERENCE ALSO BETWEEN A WIFE AND A VIRGIN. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, THAT SHE MAY BE HOLY BOTH IN BODY AND IN SPIRIT: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.
1Co 7:35 And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, BUT FOR THAT WHICH IS COMELY, AND THAT YE MAY ATTEND UPON THE LORD WITHOUT DISTRACTION.This applies especially to ministers of the gospel. When Paul was giving Timothy advice about his ministry…
2Ti 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, AS A GOOD SOLDIER OF JESUS CHRIST.
2Ti 2:4 No man that WARRETH ENTANGLETH HIMSELF WITH THE AFFAIRS OF THIS LIFE; THAT HE MAY PLEASE HIM WHO HATH CHOSEN HIM TO BE A SOLDIER.Also see Matthew 19:10, where Jesus says “…others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven” would you condemn the Church for ALLOWING PEOPLE TO FOLLOW WHAT JESUS SAID HERE?.
Mat 19:10 His disciples say unto him, IF THE CASE OF THE MAN BE SO WITH HIS WIFE, IT IS NOT GOOD TO MARRY.
Mat 19:11 But he said unto them, ALL MEN CANNOT RECEIVE THIS SAYING, SAVE THEY TO WHOM IT IS GIVEN.
Mat 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: AND THERE BE EUNUCHS [Live unmarried], WHICH HAVE MADE THEMSELVES EUNUCHS [Live unmarried] FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN'S SAKE. HE THAT IS ABLE TO RECEIVE IT, LET HIM RECEIVE IT.These who forsake marriage for the kingdoms sake crucify there flesh and walk by faith by the spirit!
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's HAVE CRUCIFIED THE FLESH WITH THE AFFECTIONS AND LUSTS.
Gal 5:25 IF WE LIVE IN THE SPIRIT, LET US ALSO WALK IN THE SPIRIT.Marriage is only of this world, those that are completely focused on ministering to God don’t get involved in these civil affairs. They look to the next world!
Luk 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, NEITHER MARRY, NOR ARE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE:
I also have an Orthodox church 15 minutes away, which would allow me to be a priest and be married. The Orthodox Church is Catholic it has direct apostolic succession of laying on of hands. All the sacraments are recognised as official and identical.
As the Catholic Church rightly teaches against contraceptive pills, Catholics generally have large families so try look after 5 or more Children take care of the Wives needs and run a Church, now do you think you could give the Lord 100%. Anyway there are options for those that want to burn the candle at both ends!As for the Lady who quoted the following scripture only understood the verse AND NOT THE CONTEXT…
Luk 14:26 IF ANY MAN COME TO ME, AND HATE NOT HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND WIFE AND CHILDREN AND BRETHREN AND SISTERS, YEA AND HIS OWN LIFE ALSO, HE CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE.
LETS READ THE MESSAGE IN FULL CONTEXT!
Our Lord after giving a parable on a wedding feast about humbling ourselves to be exalted goes on to say…
Luk 14:12 And he said to him also that had invited him: WHEN THOU MAKEST A DINNER OR A SUPPER, call not thy friends nor thy brethren nor thy kinsmen nor thy neighbours who are rich; lest perhaps they also invite thee again, and a recompense be made to thee.
Luk 14:15 When ONE OF THEM THAT SAT AT TABLE WITH HIM had heard these things, he said to him: BLESSED IS HE THAT SHALL EAT BREAD IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
So what does Jesus reveal about the bread in the kingdom of God, it’s not hard to see the marriage supper of the Lamb!
Luk 14:16 But he said to him: A CERTAIN MAN MADE A GREAT SUPPER AND INVITED MANY.
Luk 14:17 And he SENT HIS SERVANT AT THE HOUR OF SUPPER TO SAY TO THEM that were invited, that they should come: FOR NOW ALL THINGS ARE READY.But what did they do with this invitation to his great supper??
Luk 14:18 And they began all at once to make excuse. The first said to him: I have bought a farm and I must needs go out and see it. I pray thee, hold me excused.
Luk 14:19 And another said: I have bought five yoke of oxen and I go to try them. I pray thee, hold me excused.
Luk 14:20 And another said: I have married a wife; and therefore I cannot come.None of the Men that where invited came, they had to much to give up… So who does he invite those who have nothing to lose!
Luk 14:21 And the servant returning, told these things to his lord. Then the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant: Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city; and BRING IN HITHER THE POOR AND THE FEEBLE AND THE BLIND AND THE LAME.
Luk 14:22 And the servant said: Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded; AND YET THERE IS ROOM.Indeed the Fathers house has many rooms
Luk 14:23 And the Lord said to the servant: Go out into the highways and hedges, AND COMPEL THEM TO COME IN, THAT MY HOUSE MAY BE FILLED.
Luk 14:24 But I say unto you that NONE OF THOSE MEN THAT WERE INVITED SHALL TASTE OF MY SUPPER.Is Jesus saying those who don’t give up everything when invited SHALL NOT COME TO HIS SUPPER.
Luk 14:25 And there went great multitudes with him. AND TURNING, HE SAID TO THEM:
Luk 14:26 IF ANY MAN COME TO ME, AND HATE NOT HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND WIFE AND CHILDREN AND BRETHREN AND SISTERS, YEA AND HIS OWN LIFE ALSO, HE CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not carry his cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:33 SO LIKEWISE EVERY ONE OF YOU THAT DOTH NOT RENOUNCE ALL THAT HE POSSESSETH CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE.
Luk 14:34 Salt is
good. But if the salt shall lose its savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
Luk 14:35 It is neither profitable for the land nor for the dunghill: BUT SHALL BE CAST OUT. HE THAT HATH EARS TO HEAR, LET HIM HEAR.It’s so sad to see the above verses mentioned [Luk 14:26] by man made regions without the context in which they where written [the great supper], but instead these regions ATTACH IT TO THERE MAN MADE TEACHINGS/ BELIEFS.
And just in case that wasn’t enough to believe the context for which they where written….The next parable on the marriage supper will leave no doubts.
Mat 22:1 And Jesus answering, spoke again in parables to them, saying:
Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is likened to a king WHO MADE A MARRIAGE FOR HIS SON.
Mat 22:3 And he sent HIS SERVANTS TO CALL THEM THAT WERE INVITED TO THE MARRIAGE: AND THEY WOULD NOT COME.
Mat 22:4 Again he sent other servants, saying: Tell them that were invited, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my beeves and fatlings are killed, and all things are ready. COME YE TO THE MARRIAGE.
Mat 22:5 BUT THEY NEGLECTED AND WENT THEIR WAYS, ONE TO HIS FARM AND ANOTHER TO HIS MERCHANDISE.
Mat 22:6 And the rest laid hands on his servants and, having treated them contumeliously, put them to death.
Mat 22:7 But when the king had heard of it, he was angry: and sending his armies, he destroyed those murderers and burnt their city.
Mat 22:8 Then he saith to his servants: The marriage indeed is ready; BUT THEY THAT WERE INVITED WERE NOT WORTHY.Indeed those who where invited where not worthy because they didn’t forsake all things!
Mat 22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways; and AS MANY AS YOU SHALL FIND, CALL TO THE MARRIAGE.
Mat 22:10 And HIS SERVANTS GOING FORTH INTO THE WAYS, gathered together all that they found, BOTH BAD AND GOOD: and the marriage was filled with guests.
Mat 22:11 And the king went in to see the guests: AND HE SAW THERE A MAN WHO HAD NOT ON A WEDDING GARMENT.
Mat 22:12 And he saith to him: Friend, HOW CAMEST THOU IN HITHER NOT HAVING ON A WEDDING GARMENT? BUT HE WAS SILENT.
Mat 22:13 Then the king said to the waiters: BIND HIS HANDS AND FEET, AND CAST HIM INTO THE EXTERIOR DARKNESS. THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.
Mat 22:14 FOR MANY ARE CALLED, BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN.Indeed there are MANY MANY called!
The prodigal son is starving…… In the fathers house there is a ROBE a GREAT FEAST and THE RESTORATION OF LIFE AWAITING HIM!.
Luk 15:17 And returning to himself, he said: How many hired servants in my father's HOUSE ABOUND WITH BREAD, AND I HERE PERISH WITH HUNGER!
Luk 15:18 I will arise and will go to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and before thee.
Luk 15:19 I am not worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Luk 15:20 And rising up, he came to his father. And when he was yet a great way off, HIS FATHER SAW HIM AND WAS MOVED WITH COMPASSION and running to him fell upon his neck and kissed him.
Luk 15:21 And the son said to him: Father: I have sinned against heaven and before thee I am not now worthy to be called thy son.
Luk 15:22 And the father said to his servants: BRING FORTH QUICKLY THE FIRST ROBE AND PUT IT ON HIM: AND PUT A RING ON HIS HAND AND SHOES ON HIS FEET.
Luk 15:24 Because THIS MY SON WAS DEAD AND IS COME TO LIFE AGAIN, WAS LOST AND IS FOUND. And they began to be merry.Which was dead and came to life again was lost and is found….
Luk 15:31 But HE SAID TO HIM: SON, THOU ART ALWAYS WITH ME; AND ALL I HAVE IS THINE.
Luk 15:32 But it was fit that we should make merry and be glad: FOR THIS THY BROTHER WAS DEAD AND IS COME TO LIFE AGAIN; HE WAS LOST, AND IS FOUND.What is this parable revealing…. I wonder if it has something to do with all the other great suppers ….
Look what the same chapter reveals right before the prodigal son….
Luk 15:7 I say unto you, THAT LIKEWISE JOY SHALL BE IN HEAVEN OVER ONE SINNER THAT REPENTETH, MORE THAN OVER NINETY AND NINE JUST PERSONS, WHICH NEED NO REPENTANCE.
Luk 15:8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, DOTH NOT LIGHT A CANDLE, AND SWEEP THE HOUSE, AND SEEK DILIGENTLY TILL SHE FIND IT?
Luk 15:9 And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost.
Luk 15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, THERE IS JOY IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ANGELS OF GOD OVER ONE SINNER THAT REPENTETH.Now with Love let’s look at scripture IN CONTEXT and what it really reveals about these false religions.
Col 2:4 AND THIS I SAY, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BEGUILE YOU WITH ENTICING WORDS.
Col 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, AS YE HAVE BEEN TAUGHT, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col 2:8 BEWARE LEST ANY MAN SPOIL YOU THROUGH PHILOSOPHY AND VAIN DECEIT, AFTER THE TRADITION OF MEN, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 FOR IN HIM DWELLETH ALL THE FULNESS OF THE GODHEAD BODILY.Who does Paul reveal about these ones who would try and deny the fullness of the Godhead/Godship of the true and perfect Son of God.
Who does he continue to reveal just a few verse down in the same chapter?Col 2:16 LET NO MAN THEREFORE JUDGE YOU IN MEAT OR IN DRINK OR IN RESPECT OF A FESTIVAL DAY OR OF THE NEW MOON OR OF THE SABBATHS,
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come: but the body is of Christ.
Col 2:18 LET NO MAN SEDUCE YOU, willing IN humility and RELIGION OF ANGELS, walking in the things which he hath not seen, in vain puffed up by the sense of his flesh:
Col 2:19 And not holding the head, from which the whole body, by joints and bands, being supplied with nourishment and compacted, groweth into the increase of God.
Col 2:20 IF THEN YOU BE DEAD WITH CHRIST from the elements of this world, WHY DO YOU YET DECREE AS THOUGH LIVING IN THE WORLD?
Col 2:21 TOUCH NOT: TASTE NOT: HANDLE NOT.So who is Paul saying that will try and cheat the Son of the fullness of the Godhead/Godship. How fitting is it that these very ones are revealed as judging festival days etc seducing with religion of Angels [MICHEAL THE ARCH ANGEL AS JESUS] and how about the touch not, taste not, handle not is yet another revelation of these who would deny the fullness of the Son’s Godship.
Also it was in the LAST DAYS that these false prophets would arise in the age of increase in knowledge. Anyway 1500 years ago was the early days, we are now in the 21 st century and WE ARE NOW IN THE LAST DAYS.
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the LAST DAYS scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
Jud 1:18 How that they told you THERE SHOULD BE MOCKERS in the LAST TIME, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
2Ti 3:1 This know also, THAT IN THE LAST DAYS PERILOUS TIMES SHALL COME.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be LOVERS OF THEIR OWN SELVES, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, FALSE ACCUSERS, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, BUT DENYING THE POWER THEREOF: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 FOR OF THIS SORT ARE THEY WHICH CREEP INTO HOUSES, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 EVER LEARNING, AND NEVER ABLE TO COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH.Notice that’s all this things are predicted in the
LAST DAYS.I don’t understand why Jehovah Witnesses hold the book of Jude so highly when it teaches against resisting Church Authority and trying to start a new religion “the gainsaying of Core” we will look at this shortly.
Jud 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, DESPISE DOMINION, and SPEAK EVIL OF DIGNITIES.
Jud 1:10 BUT THESE SPEAK EVIL OF THOSE THINGS WHICH THEY KNOW NOT: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
Who are these people who speak evil of those things they know not.
2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, EVEN DENYING THE LORD THAT BOUGHT THEM, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; BY REASON OF WHOM THE WAY OF TRUTH SHALL BE EVIL SPOKEN OF.
Denying the lord that bought them by reason of evil being spoken of the truth!
Jesus own words about his household.
Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. IF THEY HAVE CALLED THE MASTER OF THE HOUSE BEELZEBUB, HOW MUCH MORE SHALL THEY CALL THEM OF HIS HOUSEHOLD?
Indeed how much more is the house called the house of BEELZEBUB or the Whore. Even when it is proved who the real whore is, and there is no longer any scriptural backing, then begin the stories such as, there are now two Mother of Harlots/Whore of Babylon’s!
Its sad BUT IT REVEALS WHAT JESUS IS SAYING IN MAT 10:25Anyway back to Jude, what a revelation the next verse holds!
Jud 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, AND PERISHED IN THE GAINSAYING OF CORE.
Now David do you understand what the gainsaying of Core is. Core is also known as “Korah” in some translations!
Anyway CORE believe in the Most High but he DID NOT EXCEPT THE AUTHORITY of Moses and Aaron. Moses challenged him serve the Lord at Tabernacle. Lets see what happened to Core and his own SELF GIVEN authority.
Num 16:3 And when they HAD STOOD UP AGAINST MOSES AND AARON, they said: Let it be enough for you, THAT ALL THE MULTITUDE CONSISTETH OF HOLY ONES, and the Lord is among them: WHY LIFT YOU UP YOURSELVES ABOVE THE PEOPLE OF THE LORD?
Num 16:4 When Moses heard this, he fell flat on his face:
Num 16:5 And SPEAKING TO CORE and all the multitude, he said: IN THE MORNING THE LORD WILL MAKE KNOWN WHO BELONG TO HIM, and the holy he will join to himself: AND WHOM HE SHALL CHOOSE, THEY SHALL APPROACH TO HIM.
Num 16:9 Is it a small thing unto you, that the God of Israel hath spared you from all the people, AND JOINED YOU TO HIMSELF, THAT YOU SHOULD SERVE HIM IN THE SERVICE OF THE TABERNACLE, and should stand before the congregation of the people, AND SHOULD MINISTER TO HIM?
Num 16:10 Did he therefore make thee and all thy brethren the sons of Levi to approach unto him, THAT YOU SHOULD CHALLENGE TO YOURSELVES THE PRIESTHOOD ALSO,That’s right Core thought that as the Lord was among them he didn’t need to follow the authority of Moses or Aaron.…..
Num 16:28 And Moses said: BY THIS YOU SHALL KNOW THAT THE LORD HATH SENT ME TO DO ALL THINGS THAT YOU SEE, and that I have not forged them of my own head:
Num 16:29 If these men die the common death of men, and if they be visited with a plague, wherewith others also are wont to be visited, the Lord DID NOT send me.
Num 16:30 BUT IF THE LORD DO A NEW THING, AND THE EARTH OPENING HER MOUTH SWALLOW THEM DOWN, and all things that belong to them, and they go DOWN ALIVE INTO HELL, YOU SHALL KNOW THAT THEY HAVE BLASPHEMED THE LORD.
Num 16:31 And immediately as he had made an end of speaking, the earth broke asunder under their feet:
Num 16:32 And OPENING HER MOUTH, DEVOURED THEM WITH THEIR TENTS AND ALL THEIR SUBSTANCE.
Num 16:33 And THEY WENT DOWN ALIVE INTO HELL, THE GROUND CLOSING UPON THEM, and they perished from among the people.
Num 16:34 But all Israel, that was STANDING ROUND ABOUT, FLED AT THE CRY OF THEM THAT WERE PERISHING: SAYING: LEST PERHAPS THE EARTH SWALLOW US UP ALSO.
Num 16:35 AND A FIRE COMING OUT FROM THE LORD, DESTROYED THE TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY MEN THAT OFFERED THE INCENSE.
Num 16:36 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying:
Num 16:37 Command Eleazar the son of Aaron the priest to take up the censers that lie in the burning, and to scatter the fire of one side and the other: because they are sanctifiedNum 16:40 That the children of Israel might have for the time to come wherewith they should be admonished, THAT NO STRANGER OR ANY ONE THAT IS NOT OF THE SEED OF AARON should come near to offer incense to the Lord, LEST HE SHOULD SUFFER AS CORE SUFFERED, AND ALL HIS CONGREGATION, according as the Lord spoke to Moses.
Thats right you had to be from the seed of Aaron to minister unto the lord. The Aaronic priesthood were the only ones allowed to offer certain sacrifices. The Aaronic priesthood WAS BASED ON GENETIC SUCCESSION, it descended from Aaron, through his sons, and their sons after them.
The priesthood of the New Covenant, having changed (Hebrews 7:11-12), is based on Apostolic succession, and every validly ordained Catholic priest has been made a priest by the laying on of hands. He has been ordained by a bishop who's been ordained by a bishop who's been ordained by a bishop…who, going back two thousand years was ordained by the Apostles who were ordained by our Lord Jesus the only and true Son of GodAny way those who rebelled against Moses and Aaron the brother of Moses thinking it was unfair that they had a higher priestly class learnt the hard way!
Num 16:49 And the number OF THEM THAT WERE SLAIN WAS FOURTEEN THOUSAND AND SEVEN HUNDRED MEN, besides them that had perished in the SEDITION OF CORE.
Num 16:50 And AARON RETURNED TO MOSES TO THE DOOR OF THE TABERNACLE OF THE COVENANT AFTER THE DESTRUCTION WAS OVER.Anyway Jude has WARNED IN THE *NEW TESTAMENT* not to go after gainsaying of Core !
But not for going against genetic succession BUT APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION WHICH IS RECEIVED BY THE LAYING ON OF HANDS!
Act 1:19 And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem: so that the same field was called in their tongue, Haceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms: Let their habitation become desolate, and let there be none to dwell therein. AND HIS BISHOPRIC [G1984] LET ANOTHER TAKE.G1984 ἐπισκοπή episkopē ep-is-kop-ay'
From G1980; inspection (for relief); by implication superintendence; specifically the Christian “episcopate”: – THE OFFICE OF A “BISHOP”, bishoprick, visitation.Let’s look at apostolic succession by imposition of the hands!
Act 6:6 These they set before the apostles: and they praying, IMPOSED HANDS UPON THEM.
Act 6:7 And the word of the Lord increased: and the number of the disciples was multiplied in Jerusalem exceedingly. A great multitude also of the priests obeyed the faith.Can it get any clearer than the following!
Act 8:17 Then they LAID THEIR HANDS UPON THEM: and they received the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:18 And when Simon [Shimon] saw that, BY THE IMPOSITION OF THE HANDS OF THE APOSTLES, the HOLY GHOST WAS GIVEN, he offered them money,That’s right the laying on off hands is called *the imposition of the hands of the apostles* KNOWN AS APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION.
And you can obtain it by man made regions, yes money CANNOT PURCHASE IT… ONLY bishops have been given this power.Act 8:19 Saying: Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I shall lay my hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said to him:
Act 8:20 Keep thy money to thy
self, to perish with thee: BECAUSE THOU HAST THOUGHT THAT THE GIFT OF GOD MAY BE PURCHASED WITH MONEY.
Act 8:21 THOU HAST NEITHER PART NOR LOT IN THIS MATTER: FOR THY HEART IS NOT RIGHT IN THE SIGHT OF GOD.
Act 8:22 REPENT THEREFORE OF THIS THY WICKEDNESS, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
Act 8:23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
Act 8:24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.For those who don’t believe the Holy is a person read this next verse slowly.
Act 13:2 AS THEY MINISTERED TO THE LORD, and fasted, THE HOLY GHOST SAID, Separate me BARNABAS AND SAUL FOR THE WORK WHEREUNTO I HAVE CALLED THEM.
Yes more proof the Holy Spirit is a person! Now how where Barnabas and Saul ordained, yes by the imposition of hands
Act 13:3 And when they had fasted and prayed, AND LAID THEIR HANDS ON THEM, they sent them away.
Act 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
Notice After the imposition of hands the next time Saul is mentioned he has a new name he is from now on called Paul!
Saul the great persecutor of the church is now called Paul! As you are aware he was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write over half the books of the new testament! It took him a while to release when he persecuted the CHURCH HE PERSECUTED JESUS OWN BODY.Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, SAUL, SAUL, WHY PERSECUTEST THOU ME?
See also Act 22:7 Act 26:14.2Ti 1:6 For which cause I admonish thee that thou stir up the grace of God WHICH IS IN THEE BY THE IMPOSITION OF MY HANDS.
Heb 6:2 OF THE DOCTRINE of baptisms AND IMPOSITION OF HANDS, and of the resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Act 14:23 And when they HAD ORDAINED [G5500 By Hand] THEM ELDERS [Priests] in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.
1Ti 4:14 NEGLECT NOT the grace that is in thee, WHICH WAS GIVEN THEE BY PROPHECY, with IMPOSITION OF THE HANDS OF THE PRIESTHOOD.
The world is becoming more and drunk they don’t understand the Sacrament it all about “faith alone” but even the demons believe!
Also if you want to disprove the Churches authority you need to be able to disprove the doctrine of the imposition of hands. And if you want to prove the Church is the Whore you need to disprove what makes her the bride and that’s the sacrament of the Eucharist. It will be sad if you try and you will be alone, because no one in the entire early Church believes it was a symbol. I can provide you with many examples of what the early Church teaches regarding the Eucharist.
If you believe the sacrament is just bread you don’t discern the presence of the lords Body, the Lord says that the Bread is his Body and the wine is his Blood and then after being questioned by the unbelieving Jews says my Flesh is Meat [food] indeed and by blood is drink indeed.
Catholic don’t worship bread they worship Christ, if they didn’t they wouldn’t discern the Lords body and would be guilty against the Body and blood of Jesus.
1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, EATETH AND DRINKETH DAMNATION TO HIMSELF, not discerning the Lord's body.
That’s right damnation for not discerning the presence of the Lords Body which is real food indeed. We have been called to be part of a new creation through Baptism and we need to eat from the tree of life!
1Co 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, SHALL BE GUILTY OF THE BODY AND BLOOD OF THE LORD.
With Love I will pray for you.
You probably don’t like what I have written but it’s only because I care for you, otherwise I wouldn’t waste my time!
Just look at all the Watch towers false prophesies what does scripture reveal about false prophesies and what does scripture reveal about changing Gods word.
The word is truth it doesn’t need to be changed! We just need to believe it and DO what it says.Quote All other Christian churches broke off of our Church. You lost the authority from God to act in his name. Dear Robyn,
The church was started long before the catholics took it over and monopolized it into what it is today. It is not what God had intented it to be. The Lord has given me the study on the 3 baptism and also the son of perdition in the doctrine section. I think you need to read it and study it. Yet, it is a deep subject and I am not convinced you would be able to grasp it.
What is deals with is how God set up the baptism is the church and how the catholic church changed it. Now, I don't know about you, but this alone, if I were a catholic, would be enough proof to cause me to leave. This study was given me by the unction of the Holy Spirit. One one person has been able to find any fault within it, for it is not doctrine that comes from man, but from the Holy Spirit. This very doctrine proves beyond all doubt, by using the Word of God, that the catholic religion changed the Word of God and the way God had set up the order in which the baptism where to be done. The bible calls those responsible the son of perdition. And the the discription given is that of the popes. They said on their thrones, acting like God.
2 Thess. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
The popes have all done this and still do this today. Any man who allows other men to bow to them and to kiss their rings or their feet or their hems and the hands think they are Gods.
Sis, this is not a good place to be. The only true faith today it the Word of God. The only true churches today are the ones that stand on the Word of God. These churches will look like the churches in the days of the apostles. The will have the signs of the believers. Mark 16.
Hi SS,
You say
“Catholic don’t worship bread they worship Christ, if they didn’t they wouldn’t discern the Lords body and would be guilty against the Body and blood of Jesus.”So first where did Jesus teach that we should woship him?
This is his teaching about true worship. Can you accept it?Jn 4
” 23″But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.”The catholic church has a ceremony whereby the “priest” holds up a container which holds a piece of bread. All the catholics bow down and worship this bread.
That is what thay call worshiping Jesus!
Nick, you attack catholics on one hand and there have been times I have seen you defending their beliefs. For instance, how water baptism saves. That is a catholic belief.
Hi H,
You seem to have a short memory.
God saves
Baptism alone does not save anyone-that would be magic.Neither do
repentance alone,
faith alone,
and spirit baptism alone
save.But all are necessary.
Hi Robyn †.
I think you have been given quite a bit to think about, but your pride makes you defend the harlot and you are also very drunk on her wine. That is why you make no sense and cannot reason.
If scripture cannot convince you, and you continue to rest your faith and case on man-made tradition, then I think you have clearly made your choice and you have done so publicly (before witnesses).
We all have to live with the decisions we have made in life.
You have chosen to swap the truth in scripture for the traditions of men and you are open about it too.Your choice of course, but I can guarantee you one thing. So long as you build your works on the traditions of men, you will lack in the truth of God and also in the power of God, just as you do now.
Mark 7:13
Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”Later on, you will also find that there are no rewards for works that are not built on the true foundation.
You get one life and my advice to you is to not let pride rob you. But if you choose to be robbed, then that too is your decision to make.
Why is it that most people who live in South America are Catholic, many who live in India are Hindu, and most who live in Pakistan are Moslem?
Because they have no real faith in God, they are simply repeating that which was sown into their lives from their parents, culture, and/or upbringing.
But anyone can see that all of them cannot be right, yet they are all very religious and quite stubborn in that many wouldn't consider change and would be suspicious of anyone who helped them to change.
E.g., I could say the same things to a Hindu that I have said to you and I bet that many would be just the same as you, in that they would defend their tradition to the end.
You see the world truly is drunk on religion. They are so drunk that they cannot reason, nor can they see even obvious truths.
I also bet that you could take many of these same people, and if you were able to see them live 3 seperate lives (1 in each country), you could probably watch them in 1 life as a Catholic, another as a Hindu, and the other as a Moslem.
You see people who lack the will to seek truth will be deceived by that which is around them. But it takes a person who seeks truth with all their heart to be able to break out of their cultural confines. If you love the truth, then God promises to reveal it to you. As it is written: “Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened”.
Could I put it to you Robyn †, that if you were born in Pakistan and were Pakistani, you would most likely be a Moslem and if you were born in India, you would probably be a Hindu or one of the other big religions there.
I say this because the basis of you faith as you have communicated to those in this discussion is not a result as a deep search or love for the truth, nor even from a basic understanding of scripture, rather you parrot off Catholicism (as many others parrot of their religion) in such a way that truth means very little.
But God is after people who have a heart after him. He obviously sees that the world is full of religious people who between them believe a wide range of things from Reincarnation to the Queen of Heaven.
But does God care about these fables of men?
I think God cares for people and is always looking for people who have a heart after him. That is what I think.
2 Chronicles 16:9
For the eyes of the LORD range throughout the earth to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him.Acts 13:22
After removing Saul, he made David their king. He testified concerning him: 'I have found David son of Jesse a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.'1 Kings 11:4
As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father had been.Was David chosen because he was a Catholic, Moslem, a JW, or because he worshipped the Queen of Heaven/the Motehr of God? No he was chosen because of his heart.
What about your heart Robyn †?
Do you love the truth enough to seek it out at every moment you are given? Do you rest your beliefs and faith in the traditions of men or the Word of God? Will tradition bring you to God spotless and without blemish? Will your tradition give you everlasting life and peace on earth?
Or will you find out the hard way that all that is of man will fall away and will one day be forgotten.
It is not the person who does the will of God who lives forever? Surely it isn't about joining the right denomination, or getting lucky and having parents who luckily chose the right church from the right religion among the hundreds of thousands or millions of ways.
No it is about loving the truth that much, that God delights in giving it to you. And it is about listening to what God wants and what he is saying, over that which man is saying from his own spirit.
Robyn †. If you believe that being a Catholic is what gives you salvation and eternal life, then you are sadly mistaken.
1 John 2:17
The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.Hi,
Catholics are taught that their “priests” forgive sin.
They are taught that the pope is in the place of Jesus on earth and speaks infallibly in that role.The problem is that to be a part of the body of Christ on earth you must be reborn.
You are not reborn in the way of Jesus to become a catholic so that none who claim to be leaders in that denomination are even members, so how can they have any authority at all?The Emperor is wearing no clothes
so do not listen to them but 'come out of her',
be reborn and follow Jesus who is still the head of the body of Christ on earth.Quote (t8 @ Aug. 26 2006,14:23) Hi Robyn †. I think you have been given quite a bit to think about, but your pride makes you defend the harlot and you are also very drunk on her wine. That is why you make no sense and cannot reason.
If scripture cannot convince you, and you continue to rest your faith and case on man-made tradition, then I think you have clearly made your choice and you have done so publicly (before witnesses).
Pride? There is more to God than just the scriptures. You focus all of God on the scriptures that were written by man and inspired by God. The scriptures are to guide and helps us. The Scriptures do not give us salvation. You have blinders on and only can see the Holy Bible before you and nothing else. As you know that due to the error of man…we have a ton of bibles running around out there. Tell me….which Bible is the “True” Bible and the word of God?Let's see…we have the ALT – Analytical-Literal Translation, Amp – Amplified Bible, ASV – American Standard Version, BBE – Bible in Basic English, Book of Mormon, BWE, CET – Today's English Version, CEV – Contemporary English Version, Darby Translation, DKJV, Douay, Easy to Read Version, Good News Bible, GW – God's Word, HNV – Hebrew Names Version (HNV) of the World English Bible, ICV – International Children's Version, ISV – International Standard Version, JB – Jerusalem Bible, Jefferson Bible, JNT – Jewish New Testament, JPS – Jewish Publication Society, JST – Joseph Smith Translation, Judaica Press version, KJV – King James Version, sometimes called the Authorized Version (AV), KJ21 – 21st Century King James Version of the Holy Bible, KJ2000 – King James 2000 Bible, LB – Living Bible, Leeser Bible, LITV – Literal Translation of the Bible, The Message, MKJV – Modern King James Version, MLV – Modern Literal Version (ASV-3), NAB – New American Bible, NASB – New American Standard Bible, NASB95 – New American Standard Bible, 1995 Update, NCV – New Century Version, NEB – New English Bible, NET – New English Translation, New Chain-Reference Bible, 4th improved edition, New Life Version, NIV – New International Version, NIrV – New International Reader's Version, NJB – New Jerusalem Bible, NJV (JPS) – New Jewish Verson,
Oops….I can go on and on. That is only half of them. I'm sure you get my point. Now tell me. Which Bible is the “true” Bible and the Word of God?
Hi Robyn,
We should not talk about bibles as much as the manuscripts they were derived from. Bibles only imperfectly reflect the pure light from which they are translated. But we are not just reliant on the words of men but we have the inner light of the same Spirit that wrote them to help us in our search for truth.
2Tim 3
” 14You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them,15and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work”
and
2 Peter 1
“19So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.20But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation,
21for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God”
So we do not need men such as popes and bishops and theologians to tell us what God says in His biblical message.
That Spirit can be sought.
Lk 11
” 13If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”Scripture Seeker, I believe that it is you who does not understand…. the Council of Orange dealth with semi Pelagianism… and the issue was human ability in view of the effects of the Fall….
“The Council of Orange was an outgrowth of the controversy between Augustine and Pelagius. This controversy had to do with degree to which a human being is responsible for his or her own salvation, and the role of the grace of God in bringing about salvation. The Pelagians held that human beings are born in a state of innocence, i.e., that there is no such thing as a sinful nature or original sin.
As a result of this view, they held that a state of sinless perfection was achievable in this life. The Council of Orange dealt with the Semi-Pelagian doctrine that the human race, though fallen and possessed of a sinful nature, is still “good” enough to able to lay hold of the grace of God through an act of unredeemed human will. As you read the Canons of the Council of Orange, you will be able to see where John Calvin derived his views of the total depravity of the human race.”
As far as grace alone, you are playing with words and not being totally honest. “Can. 8 “If any shall say that by the said sacraments of the New Law, grace is not conferred from the work which has been worked [ex opere operato] but that faith alone in the divine promise suffices to obtain grace: let him be anathema.” Grace, quite clearly according to Trent, is not both necessary and sufficient for salvation. Works are required, thus, Roman theology teaches a false gospel, one contrary to the Scriptures.
here are a few more examples:
(Anathemas condemning anyone that accepts the idea of Justification by Faith Alone)“If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.” Sixth Session CANON IX
“If any one saith, that justifying faith is nothing else but confidence in the divine mercy which remits sins for Christ's sake; or, that this confidence alone is that whereby we are justified; let him be anathema.” Sixth Session CANON XII”
Further, works will always accompany true regeneration and justification…. salvation is by faith alone, but not by a faith that is alone. Any claims that say works are not the inevitable fruit of true salvation is antinomianism.
blessings
Hi E,
But the notion of a SACRAMENT
is that actions by men automatically
bring about the giving of grace by God
WITHOUT PERSONAL FAITH BEING IN ANY WAY NECESSARY,
such as shown in baptism of infants.Men can force the hand of God?
Men rule over God?
Such is witchcraft and magic.Quote (Robyn † @ Aug. 26 2006,21:10) Oops….I can go on and on. That is only half of them. I'm sure you get my point. Now tell me. Which Bible is the “true” Bible and the Word of God?
Hi Robyn
Can you show me in Scripture please where the Bible is called the Word of God? The truth is that it is totally unscriptural. There is one Word (logo) of God according to Scripture, His name is Jesus.The Bible contains the words of God according to Scripture, and Scripture also refers to itself as Scripture, but if you call the Bible the Word of God then the emphasis of the Bible is on itself. If you see Jesus as the Word of God then the emphasis of the Bible is on Him.
For more detail on this, check out my page http://www.all4god.net/word_of_god.htm and have a look at it the way God showed it to me.
Blessings
Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 26 2006,22:24) Hi Robyn
Can you show me in Scripture please where the Bible is called the Word of God?
You don't think the Bible contains the “Word of God” You actually need a scripture to prove it? I was just pointing out how many Bibles they have out there. Which is the “true” bible then?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 26 2006,21:22) Hi Robyn,
We should not talk about bibles as much as the manuscripts they were derived from. Bibles only imperfectly reflect the pure light from which they are translated. But we are not just reliant on the words of men but we have the inner light of the same Spirit that wrote them to help us in our search for truth.
What about the scriptures that warn us about changing the Bible or altering it? You take any of those Bibles…thye don't match. Which Bible is the correct translation then?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 26 2006,23:21) Hi Robyn,
Seek the Spirit and the Spirit of God will show you all these answers and more.
Well Nick…since you have the Spirit of God more than me….you can tell me. Come on…don't be shy.
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