Both Jesus and John the baptist not preexistent

[barley]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 09 2010,14:23)

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 08 2010,14:49) Now God can do anything except evil and so Jesus could have been reincarnated as a human which would be the angel is born in a human body.  In that case it is only the soul which pre-exists. Reincarnation is not a biblical teaching. Hi Kewin, The angels were created through Jesus, so I personally think he is something much more than “just an angel”.   But if it helps you come to truth, then by all means, think of him as an angel who was “reincarnated” as a human.  Because that's pretty much what scripture teaches. Jesus was existing in the form of God as a spirit being. Jesus was made into a human being. Jesus COMPLETELY died. Jesus was raised back to heaven with a spirtual body. Kerwin: Quote Conception is the origination of a person and one can have only one origin. So when the dead are raised to life, do you consider it a “continuation” of their old being, or a “new origin” as an immortal being?  I'm just curious.  I never really thought about it before. peace and love, mike

“The angels were created through Jesus” Huh?

You have a scriptural reference for that one?

You are really grasping for straws.

barley

[barley]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 09 2010,16:25)

Just Askin, My point is it is a comparison pointing out both were conceived in their mother's womb.  If there is no evidence that John the Baptist, who is called the prophet Elijah in scripture, is preexistent then there is no evidence that Jesus is preeexistent.

Kerwin,

You must have gone to God for that one. God's wisdom is clearly evident in your wisdom to present this thread.

While they grasp at straws and personally attack, God watches over you.

Keep up the good work.

Barley

[barley]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 09 2010,17:10)

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 09 2010,23:09) Pierre, I believe that you interpret scriptures to support the tenet of Preexistence, but that does not mean they do.  The way I understand those same scriptures the do not so I spoke what I am confident is true. What does your interpretation have to do with godliness which is the principle of godly reasoning?  The teaching you embrace instead makes Jesus a superhuman and thus puts the goal he achieved and sets for us of being righteous and holy as God is out of our reach.  That is reasoning that relies on the principles of this world. I on the other hand believe Jesus is a human being who set an example and goal that can be reached through faith.  He does not leave us alone but he unites us with the power of God to overcome all our sins and thus come to peace with God. The pursuit of godliness by the power of God is a godly principle. Kerwin first the preexistence is not reincarnation,it has nothing to do with all of us, as a soul, what it is ;it is that God as chosen his son ,the first born of all creation to be the one qualified to performing the rescue for men sins. to do that he had to give up his heavenly position and become one of us,and so he did voluntarily.this is what was foretold ,by the prophets. Jn 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. Jn 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. Jn 6:33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” Jn 6:34 “Sir,” they said, “from now on give us this bread.” Jn 6:35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Jn 8:38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you do what you have heard from your father Heb 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful WORD(Christ). After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Heb 1:4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. Heb 1:6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, Heb 2:5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. Heb 2:6 But there is a place where someone has testified: “What is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him? Heb 2:7 You made him a little lower than the angels; you crowned him with glory and honor Heb 2:8 and put everything under his feet.” In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. Heb 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— Heb 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Heb 2:18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted. Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning. Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. Jn 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known. those scriptures i give you here are but a few,there is more of them ,but this should be sufficient for the spirit to understand that Christ was the son of God from heaven,not a man made who became the son of God, there is only one ever son of God ,with many names but still one son ,the first born of all creation. Pierre

You can prove that there is no God from the Bible too. Your interpretations of those scriptures conflict with the rest the scriptures.

barley

[mikeboll64]

Whoa!  Take it easy there oatmeal!

barley:

Quote

God is light and in him is no darkness at all.

Hmmmmm…… Jesus says he is the Light that came into the world. (John 3:19)  And John says this about that “Light”:

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

Thanks for reminding me.  I've been meaning to add John 3:19 to the database.

Come on oatmeal, who did John testify concerning?

barely:

Quote

Actually, you have no verses for preexistence.

Actually, adding John 3:19, it's up to 39, I think.  Check them out, they're on the “Pre-existent Scripture Database” thead.  It has been a labor of love for true believers.

mike

[Ed J]

Hi Barley,

Good to see your back at h-net!
Did you know that Kerwin is recovering
from a major illness which needed surgery?

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Baker]

Quote (barley @ Nov. 10 2010,13:57)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 09 2010,14:23) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 08 2010,14:49) Now God can do anything except evil and so Jesus could have been reincarnated as a human which would be the angel is born in a human body.  In that case it is only the soul which pre-exists. Reincarnation is not a biblical teaching. Hi Kewin, The angels were created through Jesus, so I personally think he is something much more than “just an angel”.   But if it helps you come to truth, then by all means, think of him as an angel who was “reincarnated” as a human.  Because that's pretty much what scripture teaches. Jesus was existing in the form of God as a spirit being. Jesus was made into a human being. Jesus COMPLETELY died. Jesus was raised back to heaven with a spirtual body. Kerwin: Quote Conception is the origination of a person and one can have only one origin. So when the dead are raised to life, do you consider it a “continuation” of their old being, or a “new origin” as an immortal being?  I'm just curious.  I never really thought about it before. peace and love, mike “The angels were created through Jesus”    Huh? You have a scriptural reference for that one? You are really grasping for straws. barley

Since I am here, I will answer you. In

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

If you have any doubt the The Wird of God is who became Jesus read this

Rev 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Rev 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Is there another being that fits this description. I don't think so….

Peace Irene

[Ed J]

Hi Mike,

I don't think those who don't believe in preexistence are not true believers?

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Baker @ Nov. 10 2010,14:07)

Since I am here, I will answer you.  In Col 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:   Col 1:16   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:   Col 1:17   And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.   Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.   Jhn 1:2   The same was in the beginning with God.   Jhn 1:3   All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.   If you have any doubt the The Wird of God is who became Jesus  read this Rev 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.   Rev 19:12   His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.   Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.   Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.   Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.   Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.   Is there another being that fits this description. I don't think so…. Peace Irene

HI Irene,

Is this the 40th time I seen this Post?
Maybe it's the 41st, I can't be certain?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Baker]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2010,14:14)

Quote (Baker @ Nov. 10 2010,14:07) Since I am here, I will answer you.  In Col 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:   Col 1:16   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:   Col 1:17   And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.   Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.   Jhn 1:2   The same was in the beginning with God.   Jhn 1:3   All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.   If you have any doubt the The Wird of God is who became Jesus  read this Rev 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.   Rev 19:12   His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.   Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.   Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.   Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.   Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.   Is there another being that fits this description. I don't think so…. Peace Irene HI Irene, Is this the 40th time I seen this Post? Maybe it's the 41st, I can't be certain? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

So what, you still don't understand it…… Maybe I need to put it down more often. Besides I gave them to Barley and not to you, so why are you complaining….
Irene.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (barley @ Nov. 10 2010,13:57)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 09 2010,14:23) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 08 2010,14:49) Now God can do anything except evil and so Jesus could have been reincarnated as a human which would be the angel is born in a human body.  In that case it is only the soul which pre-exists. Reincarnation is not a biblical teaching. Hi Kewin, The angels were created through Jesus, so I personally think he is something much more than “just an angel”.   But if it helps you come to truth, then by all means, think of him as an angel who was “reincarnated” as a human.  Because that's pretty much what scripture teaches. Jesus was existing in the form of God as a spirit being. Jesus was made into a human being. Jesus COMPLETELY died. Jesus was raised back to heaven with a spirtual body. Kerwin: Quote Conception is the origination of a person and one can have only one origin. So when the dead are raised to life, do you consider it a “continuation” of their old being, or a “new origin” as an immortal being?  I'm just curious.  I never really thought about it before. peace and love, mike “The angels were created through Jesus”    Huh? You have a scriptural reference for that one? You are really grasping for straws. barley

Barely ……..right on, scripture say GOD creates His angels Spirits, But mike has his own idea of that . On the one hand he says Jesus is not GOD one the other hand He say Jesus is the one that created Angels. He fails to see Scripture disagrees with him. But then again Preexistences have a way of doing that and making scripture say what in fact it does not say. So let me add to you HUH, , but i am sure Mike will have some way of jumping put of that even if it means twisting up scripture to his way of thinking, Nothing new about that now is there”.

peace and love to you and yours…………………….Gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (barley @ Nov. 10 2010,14:01)

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 09 2010,16:25) Just Askin, My point is it is a comparison pointing out both were conceived in their mother's womb.  If there is no evidence that John the Baptist, who is called the prophet Elijah in scripture, is preexistent then there is no evidence that Jesus is preeexistent. Kerwin, You must have gone to God for that one.  God's wisdom is clearly evident in your wisdom to present this thread. While they grasp at straws and  personally attack, God watches over you. Keep up the good work. Barley

Kerwin ….> I whole hardly concur with barely on this brother. Keep up the good work, every bit of truth counts in this sea of confusion Here.

Peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene

[terraricca]

Quote (barley @ Nov. 10 2010,21:03)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 09 2010,17:10) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 09 2010,23:09) Pierre, I believe that you interpret scriptures to support the tenet of Preexistence, but that does not mean they do.  The way I understand those same scriptures the do not so I spoke what I am confident is true. What does your interpretation have to do with godliness which is the principle of godly reasoning?  The teaching you embrace instead makes Jesus a superhuman and thus puts the goal he achieved and sets for us of being righteous and holy as God is out of our reach.  That is reasoning that relies on the principles of this world. I on the other hand believe Jesus is a human being who set an example and goal that can be reached through faith.  He does not leave us alone but he unites us with the power of God to overcome all our sins and thus come to peace with God. The pursuit of godliness by the power of God is a godly principle. Kerwin first the preexistence is not reincarnation,it has nothing to do with all of us, as a soul, what it is ;it is that God as chosen his son ,the first born of all creation to be the one qualified to performing the rescue for men sins. to do that he had to give up his heavenly position and become one of us,and so he did voluntarily.this is what was foretold ,by the prophets. Jn 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. Jn 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. Jn 6:33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” Jn 6:34 “Sir,” they said, “from now on give us this bread.” Jn 6:35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Jn 8:38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you do what you have heard from your father Heb 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful WORD(Christ). After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Heb 1:4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. Heb 1:6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, Heb 2:5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. Heb 2:6 But there is a place where someone has testified: “What is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him? Heb 2:7 You made him a little lower than the angels; you crowned him with glory and honor Heb 2:8 and put everything under his feet.” In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. Heb 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— Heb 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Heb 2:18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted. Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning. Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. Jn 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known. those scriptures i give you here are but a few,there is more of them ,but this should be sufficient for the spirit to understand that Christ was the son of God from heaven,not a man made who became the son of God, there is only one ever son of God ,with many names but still one son ,the first born of all creation. Pierre You can prove that there is no God from the Bible too.  Your interpretations of those scriptures conflict with the rest the scriptures. barley

mr Barley

you say;;Pierre[/quote]
You can prove that there is no God from the Bible too. Your interpretations of those scriptures conflict with the rest the scriptures.

barley

my request;;

if you can come up with scriptures that contradict what i have said or scriptures i produced

I will be pleased to see them ,so i could see were i can learn.

thank you in advance Mister Barley

[terraricca]

Quote (barley @ Nov. 10 2010,20:48)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 08 2010,15:46) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 08 2010,21:56) Pierre, There are no scriptures that support the idea that Jesus preexists his birth and these scriptures support the idea Jesus and John the Baptist originated in their mother's wombs as that is what conceived means. Kerwin unless you answer to all the scriptures in the section preexisting as i ask you, you are a liar but not to me to Gods word,and have no scriptures to back you self up. SO ANSWER THE 38 SCRIPTURES AND EXPLAIN THEM IN THE TRUTH OF SCRIPTURES Pierre I feel sorry for you.  How many thousands of scriptures and you read only 30.  You are really pitiful. Jesus Christ is the seed of the woman.  Moses foretold that a prophet like unto him would be born.  Did Moses preexist? barley

Mr Barley

we do not talking about moses we talking about Jesus Christ ,the only son that is begotten by God.

you are welcome to give your explanation to all the scriptures
who are quoted in “preexisting data”

i will looking forward to see your personal answers.

thank you mister Barley

Pierre

[terraricca]

Kerwin

do you think i understand what men's point of view is ??

Pierre

[kerwin]

Barley,

I am only a student and by all my observations a slow one at that. Still he is patient with me and continues to teach me his truths. I am glad to meet a fellow student and here what he has learned.

[kerwin]

Pierre,

I think that Satan has sent a spirit of confusion into the world and that many including you and me are and have been befuddled by this. I believe that God teaches us but also expects us to share what we learn with one another. Satan also strives to corrupt what we learn in many ways. Because of these things I point out that that which comes from man panders to the sinful nature of man while that which comes from God panders to the Spirit of God. You show by your actions that you understand what man’s point of view is when you correctly label every viewpoint. You were not doing so.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 10 2010,22:52)

Pierre, I think that Satan has sent a spirit of confusion into the world and that many including you and me are and have been befuddled by this.  I believe that God teaches us but also expects us to share what we learn with one another.   Satan also strives to corrupt what we learn in many ways. Because of these things I point out that that which comes from man panders to the sinful nature of man while that which comes from God panders to the Spirit of God.  You show by your actions that you understand what man’s point of view is when you correctly label every viewpoint.  You were not doing so.

Kerwin

you are now deceitful in your point of view,unless you can justify you point,

i be looking forward to see it .

Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 10 2010,22:52)

Pierre, I think that Satan has sent a spirit of confusion into the world and that many including you and me are and have been befuddled by this.  I believe that God teaches us but also expects us to share what we learn with one another.   Satan also strives to corrupt what we learn in many ways. Because of these things I point out that that which comes from man panders to the sinful nature of man while that which comes from God panders to the Spirit of God.  You show by your actions that you understand what man’s point of view is when you correctly label every viewpoint.  You were not doing so.

kerwin

Satan as nothing to do with it if you stick to the truth of God

and if you would carefully read all the verses ,you would see,all the things that really are and the one who are not about Christ that is .

and Christ is not a superhuman because of his preexistence this is your on making.

Paul say he was made poor for us to become rich,

other scriptures show that he took off all is glory from heaven and was made a man ,scriptures say a flesh body was prepared for him ,this is now only a man.

this is why wen he prayed to his father to give him back what the glory he had before he came down,

Pierre

[kerwin]

Pierre,

Do you then believe that you can and will like Jesus not sin as God will change you as you believe he appointed Jesus King of the new creation?

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 11 2010,04:19)

Pierre, Do you then believe that you can and will like Jesus not sin as God will change you as you believe he appointed Jesus King of the new creation?

kerwin

stop deceiving yourself;
Eph 4:17 So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking.
Eph 4:18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.
Eph 4:19 Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more.
Eph 4:20 You, however, did not come to know Christ that way.
Eph 4:21 Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus.
Eph 4:22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;
Eph 4:23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds;
Eph 4:24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Eph 4:25 Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body.
Eph 4:26 “In your anger do not sin” : Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,
Eph 4:27 and do not give the devil a foothold.
Eph 4:28 He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need.
Eph 4:29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.
Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.

2Ti 3:1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days.
2Ti 3:2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good,
2Ti 3:4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—
2Ti 3:5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
2Ti 3:6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires,
2Ti 3:7 always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected.

THIS ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.

Pierre

[Author]

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