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Luke 1:24(KJV) reads:
Quote And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,
Conception is the beginning of John the Baptist’s existence.
Luke 1:36(KJV) reads:
Quote And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
A second witness that John the Baptist is not a preexistent Spiritual being.
Luke 1:31(KJV) reads:
Quote And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Evidence from scripture that Jesus like John began his life at conception as both are conceived.
Luke 2:21(KJV) reads:
Quote And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
A second witness that Jesus was also conceived.
The Common Greek word translated to “conceive” in all these scriptures is “Sullambano” which means catch, conceive, help, and take according to the Greek Lexicon at searchgodsword.org.
In conclusion since both John the Baptist and Jesus were both conceived in their mother’s wombs then they could not have been conceived earlier and thus neither preexists that conception or Scripture would be broken.
Hi Kerwin,
Is it possible for God to take an angel that he created 1 billion years ago, and have it born again from a female hippopotamus if He wanted to?
Go view the pre-existent database thread. We are up to about 35 scriptures now. How can you make them all just “disappear”?
mike
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 08 2010,16:48) Luke 1:24(KJV) reads: Quote And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,
Conception is the beginning of John the Baptist’s existence.
Luke 1:36(KJV) reads:
Quote And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
A second witness that John the Baptist is not a preexistent Spiritual being.
Luke 1:31(KJV) reads:
Quote And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Evidence from scripture that Jesus like John began his life at conception as both are conceived.
Luke 2:21(KJV) reads:
Quote And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
A second witness that Jesus was also conceived.
The Common Greek word translated to “conceive” in all these scriptures is “Sullambano” which means catch, conceive, help, and take according to the Greek Lexicon at searchgodsword.org.
In conclusion since both John the Baptist and Jesus were both conceived in their mother’s wombs then they could not have been conceived earlier and thus neither preexists that conception or Scripture would be broken.
Kerwinthis is the first time i have seen this ;the possibility that John the Baptist as preexisting possibilities
where in Gods name do you go to get those ridicule ideas???
i know you try to make a point about Jesus ?
but with JB there is less than zero scriptures for support,
in the case of Christ there are at the least 35 verses
if you persist in your idea to deny the preexistance of Christ you HAVE TO ANSWER EVERYONE OF THOSE SCRIPTURES and say what ,why,where,who,when,all those scriptures apply
if you cannot do that you should keep silent.
Pierre
Mike Boll,
Being born again is not to originate through God creating you twice. Conception is the origination of a person and one can have only one origin.
Now God can do anything except evil and so Jesus could have been reincarnated as a human which would be the angel is born in a human body. In that case it is only the soul which pre-exists.
Reincarnation is not a biblical teaching.
Pierre,
There are no scriptures that support the idea that Jesus preexists his birth and these scriptures support the idea Jesus and John the Baptist originated in their mother's wombs as that is what conceived means.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 08 2010,21:56) Pierre, There are no scriptures that support the idea that Jesus preexists his birth and these scriptures support the idea Jesus and John the Baptist originated in their mother's wombs as that is what conceived means.
Kerwinunless you answer to all the scriptures in the section preexisting as i ask you,
you are a liar but not to me to Gods word,and have no scriptures to back you self up.
SO ANSWER THE 38 SCRIPTURES AND EXPLAIN THEM IN THE TRUTH OF SCRIPTURES
Pierre
kerwin
i start to believe that you sneaked John the Baptist in there to twist scriptures into your deceitful way and try to deceive us in your opinion that Christ did not preexisted
so answer the 38 scriptures or loose part of your reputation,as a true christian in the truth.
Pierre
kerwin, whatever you state in this life, you will have to answer to before Christ. When there are that many Scriptures that prove that Jesus preexisted His birth as a man, and you deny this, you are a false teacher….. take heed and learn from those Scriptures that are in the preexisting treads.
Peace IreneKerwin,
There is no evidence and not even any attempt by anyone (except you) that John the Baptist was anyone other than himself as a created human being.
Please either drop this nonesense or bring forward some reason or evidence why you brought this theme here in this thread.
[Moderator]Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 08 2010,21:56) Pierre, There are no scriptures that support the idea that Jesus preexists his birth and these scriptures support the idea Jesus and John the Baptist originated in their mother's wombs as that is what conceived means.
kerwinwhy is it you make flat lies??
is it your men logic ?
is it you that try to understand it the way you can see it and so leave God out,?
then i can understand you blindness.
Pierre
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 08 2010,09:48) Luke 1:24(KJV) reads: Quote And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,
Conception is the beginning of John the Baptist’s existence.
Luke 1:36(KJV) reads:
Quote And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
A second witness that John the Baptist is not a preexistent Spiritual being.
Luke 1:31(KJV) reads:
Quote And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Evidence from scripture that Jesus like John began his life at conception as both are conceived.
Luke 2:21(KJV) reads:
Quote And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
A second witness that Jesus was also conceived.
The Common Greek word translated to “conceive” in all these scriptures is “Sullambano” which means catch, conceive, help, and take according to the Greek Lexicon at searchgodsword.org.
In conclusion since both John the Baptist and Jesus were both conceived in their mother’s wombs then they could not have been conceived earlier and thus neither preexists that conception or Scripture would be broken.
Kerwin ………You are right ON, Jesus was indeed conceived (IN) the Womb , BY the Power of GOD overshadowing Mary , He is called the Second Adam , Did not preexist his creation neither did Jesus , You point is well place and is true , Jesus was no more a preexistent being then John the baptist was.They think because GOD can create DNA in Someone that means that person preexisted pure non sense. So they grab straws , like Mike does with the word “Though” that can be taken all kind of way, Or Ja with his alter EGO Version of Jesus Angelic superiority theorizing' s All this flack that only distorts the truth and Separated Jesus Identify with our own selves. You are dealing with people who have bought in to these lies a long, long, long, time ago and they still hold on to them. They are afraid there hole house of cards will come crashing down and their EGO will not let that happen.
Kerwin……….if you break it all down to what is wrong with their false teachings it is that it is a WORK OF (SEPARATION) between Jesus and OUR identity , derived all the way back to the Gnostic's from Egypt and Greek and Roman Philosophies . But the bottom line is it denies Jesus' (TRUE) HUMANITY and His IDENTITY With US as a TRUE BROTHER and a TRUE SON OF MAN.
It is purely and simple the Spirit (intellect) of ANTICHRIST John was talking about that has crept in to the (TRUE) Church of GOD a long long long, time ago. This LIE Jesus will abolish at HIS return. He is not a GOD or a Demigod, Or and Angles either, but a purely son of Man as He and scripture say he is and was.peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 08 2010,12:42) Hi Kerwin, Is it possible for God to take an angel that he created 1 billion years ago, and have it born again from a female hippopotamus if He wanted to?
Go view the pre-existent database thread. We are up to about 35 scriptures now. How can you make them all just “disappear”?
mike
Mike………..First of all if he was Created before then he would be BORN (AGAIN) Now would HE, He would have to be MORPHED for that to happen, No scripture backs this up you and your fellow preexistences have simply bought into the biggest LIE EVER TOLD. The LIE that Creates Separates Jesus from HUMANITY and moves him away from our EXACT IDENTITY> AS a FELLOW HUMAN BEING.Kerwin is right Jesus was indeed (CONCEIVED) brought into existence in the Womb of MARY, the same way John was. Because GOD creates DNA in a PERSON does not imply Preexistence as a Begin at all.
peace and love……………………..gene
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 08 2010,14:49) Now God can do anything except evil and so Jesus could have been reincarnated as a human which would be the angel is born in a human body. In that case it is only the soul which pre-exists. Reincarnation is not a biblical teaching.
Hi Kewin,The angels were created through Jesus, so I personally think he is something much more than “just an angel”. But if it helps you come to truth, then by all means, think of him as an angel who was “reincarnated” as a human. Because that's pretty much what scripture teaches.
Jesus was existing in the form of God as a spirit being.
Jesus was made into a human being.
Jesus COMPLETELY died.
Jesus was raised back to heaven with a spirtual body.
Kerwin:
Quote Conception is the origination of a person and one can have only one origin.
So when the dead are raised to life, do you consider it a “continuation” of their old being, or a “new origin” as an immortal being? I'm just curious. I never really thought about it before.peace and love,
mikeQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 09 2010,17:55) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 08 2010,12:42) Hi Kerwin, Is it possible for God to take an angel that he created 1 billion years ago, and have it born again from a female hippopotamus if He wanted to?
Go view the pre-existent database thread. We are up to about 35 scriptures now. How can you make them all just “disappear”?
mike
Mike………..First of all if he was Created before then he would be BORN (AGAIN) Now would HE, He would have to be MORPHED for that to happen, No scripture backs this up you and your fellow preexistences have simply bought into the biggest LIE EVER TOLD. The LIE that Creates Separates Jesus from HUMANITY and moves him away from our EXACT IDENTITY> AS a FELLOW HUMAN BEING.Kerwin is right Jesus was indeed (CONCEIVED) brought into existence in the Womb of MARY, the same way John was. Because GOD creates DNA in a PERSON does not imply Preexistence as a Begin at all.
peace and love……………………..gene
geneyou to are welcome to answering all the scriptures about 38,and tell us how they apply,
you find them in “preexisting data”
and we have no doubt about the fact that Christ was conceived by Marie womb,and born as a Jew and circumcise on the 8 day.and that it was God spirit work.
it is about preexistence event that you have to come to explain the scriptures of.
Pierre
Gene or Kerwin,
Can you give an example of a man claiming to having done something before his conception that was written in the active voice in the Greek? Jesus did. Can you give an example of God claiming that the living man did something before his conception that was written in the active voice in the Greek? God claims that the Son did things before His conception in Mary and the Son did them in the active voice.How do you explain that?
Mike Boll.
I have never heard of a Jewish belief in reincarnation but I have heard one on the preexistence of the human soul. Jesus and his apostles do not teach a different religion than Mosses and the prophets but merely a new phase of it.
If you wish to believe a human soul preexisted Jesus' conception and dwelt in the seventh where God has his throne then I cannot say it is not a Jewish belief though I do not know what scriptures support it.
Pierre,
I believe that you interpret scriptures to support the tenet of Preexistence, but that does not mean they do. The way I understand those same scriptures the do not so I spoke what I am confident is true.
What does your interpretation have to do with godliness which is the principle of godly reasoning? The teaching you embrace instead makes Jesus a superhuman and thus puts the goal he achieved and sets for us of being righteous and holy as God is out of our reach. That is reasoning that relies on the principles of this world.
I on the other hand believe Jesus is a human being who set an example and goal that can be reached through faith. He does not leave us alone but he unites us with the power of God to overcome all our sins and thus come to peace with God. The pursuit of godliness by the power of God is a godly principle.
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 09 2010,09:34) Gene or Kerwin,
Can you give an example of a man claiming to having done something before his conception that was written in the active voice in the Greek? Jesus did. Can you give an example of God claiming that the living man did something before his conception that was written in the active voice in the Greek? God claims that the Son did things before His conception in Mary and the Son did them in the active voice.How do you explain that?
Please let me know what scriptures you are referring to. Thank you.
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